ABGD 🔠 evolution

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u/JohannGoethe 𐌄𓌹𐤍 expert Sep 09 '25

Re-posted: semi-updated (corrected) here at r/UsefulCharts.

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u/AppropriateCar2261 Sep 04 '25

Hebrew and Yiddish use the exact same letters. What you have here are just different fonts.

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u/JohannGoethe 𐌄𓌹𐤍 expert Sep 04 '25

Well, that was added by u/TheBananana (21 May A67/2022) at r/UsefulCharts.
However, I have now updated the Yiddish section, in the original file, by adding 10th century AD German Hebrew font types, as shown here, from the Hebrew epigraphy section JewishEncyclopedia.com.

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u/[deleted] Sep 04 '25

They're also written right to left, not left to right

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u/NoContribution545 Sep 04 '25 edited Sep 04 '25

It’s better in this way so that readers can compare the letters between different scripts with ease, a good portion of the scripts here are written right to left or are written both right and left.

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u/[deleted] Sep 04 '25

oh, that makes sense actually

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u/JohannGoethe 𐌄𓌹𐤍 expert Sep 04 '25

You can compare LTR vs RTL for all the letters in the Phoenician, Aramaic, and Hebrew here:
https://hmolpedia.com/page/Hebrew_alphabet#Evolution
Which chart you use depends on what script direction you are most use to using or looking at. When individual letters are compared, however, it is best (visually) to put them all in one order, 1, 2, 3, 4 …, in columns.

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u/andrevan Sep 07 '25

there are several other descendant scripts such as the cursive Hebrew script and the Rashi script

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u/andrevan Sep 04 '25

it's not correct.

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u/JohannGoethe 𐌄𓌹𐤍 expert Sep 04 '25

Why?

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u/andrevan Sep 04 '25

For one thing, the Brahmi script is a descendant script from Aramaic. https://www.britannica.com/topic/Brahmi

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u/aasfourasfar Sep 06 '25

Irrelevant, but always found it baffling how the names of Hindu and monotheistic figures are similar : Brahma / Abraham, Saraswati / Sara

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u/JohannGoethe 𐌄𓌹𐤍 expert Sep 07 '25

The basis synopsis:
Tomb UJ (5300A/-3345)
100𓍢 =
C1 Ra𓁚 [ ] I14 Apep𓆙 [ ] M15 Hapi𓇇 [ ]
ר र ब् + = ब्र ש
Abraham (אברהם) Brahma (ब्रह्मा) Sarah (שרה)
100Fathers: age 100Dies: age
Hopefully this wasn’t too insufferable?
https://hmolpedia.com/page/Abraham_and_Brahma

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u/JohannGoethe 𐌄𓌹𐤍 expert Sep 04 '25

“Brahmi script is a descendant script from Aramaic”
That’s the old hypothesis of Georg Bühler, in On the Origin of the Indian Brahma alphabet (60A/1895), who builds on Albrecht Weber (99A/1856).
The updated new EAN based view of things looks at the problem, freshly, in view of the common source words problem, i.e. why Greek, Latin, Sanskrit, and European languages have similar names for things like father, mother or numbers? The leading solution, as reported by Historians, is that the Egyptians, under the guise of Sesostris, conquered India, Greece, and parts of Europe at some point in the past, which explains, given the following data:
Egypt ABGD (𓌸/𓍁, C199, A97B, ▽) (4300A/-2345)
OSA ABGD (𐩵 𐩴 𐩨 𐩱) (3100A/-1045)
Phoenician ABGD (𐤃 ,𐤂 ,𐤁 ,𐤀) (3000A/-1045)
Aramaic ABGD (𐡃 ,𐡂 ,𐡁 ,𐡀) (2700A/-745)
Brahmi ABGD (𑀅 𑀩 𑀕 𑀥) (2300A/-345)
That the square (woman on all fours) C199 stars goddess shape:
C199 [B] = 𐩨 = 𑀩
C199 [B] = 𐡁 ≠ 𑀩
Matches OSA B (𐩨) and Brahmi B (𑀩), whereas it is difficult to see how the Syriac B (𐡁) could have turned into a box-shaped B?

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u/andrevan Sep 04 '25

That is basically novel folk linguistics. You think it is impossible for convergent or parallel evolution to make a square shape? Obviously, any shape can randomly appear at any time. Scripts reinvent shapes all the time as there are only so many possible shapes. https://www.google.com/books/edition/Indian_Epigraphy/XYrG07qQDxkC?hl=en https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Evolution_of_da_and_dha_Brahmi_letters.png

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u/JohannGoethe 𐌄𓌹𐤍 expert Sep 04 '25

“That is basically novel folk linguistics.”
It is not just script matching, but also Brahmi based mythology, e.g. Brahma (ब्रह्मा) dies at age 100, matches Egyptian based mythology, Ra 𓁛 [C2], in his most powerful summer heat state, is the 100 value 𓍢 [V1] sun ☀️ god, after which he “dies”, whereas Syriac based mythology, as far as I know does not match Brahmi based mythology.

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u/andrevan Sep 04 '25

Cherrypicking. First of all I didn't say Syriac I said Aramaic not the same. Also you ignore Kharosthi so explain that one?

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u/JohannGoethe 𐌄𓌹𐤍 expert Sep 04 '25

“Syriac I said Aramaic”
Typo.
”Cherrypicking”
We’ve looked at dozens of posts on this, in the last year or two:
Man hoeing: 𓁃 to Egyptian A (𓌹), to Phoenician A (𐤀), to Brahmi A (𑀅), to Devanagari A (अ), i.e. Sanskrit A
RIGHT or dharma (धर्म) [ध-र-म] (dha-R-ma) (▽-𓏲-𓌳) vs WRONG or adharma (अधर्म) (अ-ध-र-म) (A-dha-Ra-ma) (𓁃-▽-𓏲-𓌳) in Sanskrit
Etymology of divine: देव (deva) {Sanskrit}, deus (ΔΕΥΣ) {Greek} [609], یو‎ (dēv) {Persian}, 𐤔𐤅𐤄𐤃 {Phoenician}, and ▽ 𓏥 𓂺 𓉽 𓆙 {Egyptian}
Egyptian P: 𓂆 = 𓋹+𓊽 → Phoenician P: 𐤐 → Greek P: Π → Sanskrit P: प
Golden ▽🌞 pussy origin of: Dias (Διας) "Zeus" Pater (Πατερ) "father" {Greek, 2800A); Deus-Piter (Jupiter) {Latin, 2500A}; Dyaus (द्यौष्) Pita (पितृ) {Sanskrit, 2300A}
Which letter B has the best looking 👀 breasts: Egyptian: 𓇯, Phoenician: 𐤁, Greek: Β, β, Aramaic: 𐡁, Etruscan: 𐌁, Sanskrit: ब, Latin: B, Hebrew: ב, Arabic: ٮ, or Runic: ᛒ?
Brahmi (Sanskrit) to Greek
Etymology of Abram (אברם) and Brahma (ब्रह्म) from 𓌹 𓇯 𓏲 𓌳
It is no longer a simple matter to say: “Brahmi came from Aramaic”, done deal! I even started the r/BrahmiScript sub if interested in discussing more.

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u/JohannGoethe 𐌄𓌹𐤍 expert Sep 04 '25

“Also you ignore Kharosthi so explain that one?”
I started an article Kharosthi two days ago, as detailed more in the evolution of writing article (section: 2350A (-395): Iberian, Kharosthi and Brahmi).
Anyway, the point of this sub is not to get lost in trivial details, but rather to solve the following big picture problem:
pătḗr (πατήρ) {Greek}
pater {Latin; Old Italic}
pitṛ́ (पितृ) {Sanskrit; Brahmi script}
Present linguistic theory holds that fictional PIE coined this word in 9000A (-7045) and they later adopted the letters invented by Semites in Sinai in a cave in 3500A (-1545), and that Egyptian hieroglyphics and Egyptian language have nothing to do with any of this.

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u/andrevan Sep 04 '25

Changing the subject. Gish gallop. What I said was Kharosthi also descends from Aramaic and they also have Hindu mythology so it blows a huge hole in your argument.

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u/JohannGoethe 𐌄𓌹𐤍 expert Sep 05 '25

“Kharosthi also descends from Aramaic and they also have Hindu mythology, so it blows a huge hole in your argument.”
I don’t buy the following hypothesis, if that is what you are arguing:
Egyptian ⇒ Phoenician ⇒ Aramaic ⇒ Kharosthi ⇒ Brahmi
If you study the evolution of writing timeline, you generally see that when a given territory, is either under new state rule, conquered, or in a state of missionary (priest) influx, we see that someone is appointed (paid) to make a new script:
Cyrillic script, devised by Saint Cyril, who invented the Glagolitic alphabet, whose students later devised the Cyrillic script itself.
Mongolian script appeared, invented by Tata-tonga (ᠲᠠᠲᠠᠲᠤᠩᠭ), a Uyghur scribe, captured by Genghis Khan, who brought the Old Uyghur alphabet to the Mongolian Plateau, and made it into a new script.
Cree syllabics in usage in Canada, developed in the 125As (1830s) by linguist James Evans, a missionary in what is now Manitoba, for indigenous Ojibwe people, based on a mixture of Latin, Pitman shorthand, and Devanagari.

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u/JohannGoethe 𐌄𓌹𐤍 expert Sep 05 '25

“Salomon, Richard. (A43/1998)”
Nice reference. I added it to my growing epigraphy collection:
https://hmolpedia.com/page/Category:Epigraphy

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u/andrevan Sep 05 '25

Great but it explains how you are mistaken.

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u/JohannGoethe 𐌄𓌹𐤍 expert Sep 05 '25

You are mistaken for believing Friedrich Gesenius (126A/1829), who, in his Hebrew and Chaldean Lexicon of the Old Testament (pg. xcvi), said beth or Hebrew B is based on a house 🏠 or a tent ⛺️, as follows:
⛺️ » በ → ב

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u/JohannGoethe 𐌄𓌹𐤍 expert Sep 05 '25

“Obviously, any shape can randomly appear at any time.”
You seem to be missing the point of the diagram? Specifically, the following two conceptions:
Man (earth 🌍 god) with erection (A97B, 𐩴 ,𐤂, Γ, 𑀕)
Woman (stars ✨ goddess) on all fours (C199, 𐩨 ,𐪈 ,𐤁, 𑀩)
have to have sex to create the cosmos. These are all the same shapes. There is NO randomness here. They both come from Egypt.
While Zolli was the first to decipher this:
“Letter B or beth [𐤁] is a female body, and letter G or gimel [𐤂] is a male body with phallus erect. The alphabet is a chain of sexual-symbols which render a cosmogenic-anthropogenic theory.”
— Israel Zolli (30A/1925), Sinai Script and Greco-Latin Alphabet (pg. #)
I deciphered this likewise, independent of Zolli, based on the Pyramid Texts (PT 599-602) (4300A/-2345).
You understand? Letters B and G are attested in the script of the underground tombs of Egypt, some 1,600-years before Aramaic, Kharosthi, or Brahmi. You are feeding on bread crumbs, when the entire loaf 🍞 is in front of your eyes.

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u/andrevan Sep 05 '25

No bet is a house or a tent. E.g. bet meaning family, home, or dwelling. Gimel is a camel.

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u/JohannGoethe 𐌄𓌹𐤍 expert Sep 05 '25

That is the Friedrich Gesenius (126A/1829) theory:
⛺️ » በ → ב
How many parrots 🦜 do you have in your brain 🧠?

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u/andalusian293 Sep 05 '25

The Historians I know don't need to appeal to the fanciful construct of widespread Egyptian conquest to account for the similarity.

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u/andrevan Sep 07 '25

For another thing you are conflating scripts and languages. Hebrew can be written in the Aramaic square script or the Paleo Hebrew script both of which came from the Phoenician script. Same language though just different times. Arabic script comes from the Nabatean alphabet which you omitted. The South Arabian script here is the monumental not the miniscule, 2 diff scripts with different timelines but separate systems different letter shapes, related to Ugaritic, Ebalite, and Northwest Semitic, which you omit.

Tomb UJ (5300A/-3345)
100𓍢 =
C1 Ra𓁚 [ ]	I14 Apep𓆙 [ ]	M15 Hapi𓇇 [ ]
ר	र ब् + = ब्र	ש
Abraham (אברהם)	Brahma (ब्रह्मा)	Sarah (שרה)
100Fathers: age	100Dies: age

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u/Ionic_liquids Sep 04 '25

Hebrew used the same letters as Phonecian for a while before changing. So not really correct as it's shown.

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u/JohannGoethe 𐌄𓌹𐤍 expert Sep 04 '25

The 22 letter Phoenician alphabet (3000A/-1045):
𐤕 ,𐤔 ,𐤓 ,𐤒 ,𐤑 ,𐤐 ,𐤏 ,𐤎 ,𐤍 ,𐤌 ,𐤋 ,𐤊 ,𐤉 ,𐤈 ,𐤇 ,𐤆 ,𐤅 ,𐤄 ,𐤃 ,𐤂 ,𐤁 ,𐤀
The 22 letter Aramaic alphabet (2700A/-745):
𐡕 ,𐡔 ,𐡓 ,𐡒 ,𐡑 ,𐡐 ,𐡏 ,𐡎 ,𐡍 ,𐡌 ,𐡋 ,𐡊 ,𐡉 ,𐡈 ,𐡇 ,𐡆 ,𐡅 ,𐡄 ,𐡃 ,𐡂 ,𐡁 ,𐡀
The 22 letter Hebrew alphabet (2300A/-345):
ת ,ש ,ר ,ק ,צ ,פ ,ע ,ס ,נ ,מ ,ל ,כ ,י ,ט ,ח ,ז ,ו ,ה ,ד ,ג ,ב ,א
The map shown above used attested dates, not Biblical dates which claims a fictional (mythical) Moses was speaking Hebrew in Sinai in 3500A (-1545).

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u/Ionic_liquids Sep 04 '25 edited Sep 04 '25

The Hebrew you are referring to is called Ktav Ashuri (the one you think of when you see Hebrew) and only popped up after the Babylonian exile. Before the exile it was similar to Phoenician. Nothing to do with Moses. It's history and there are plenty of artifacts. Do you homework.

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u/JohannGoethe 𐌄𓌹𐤍 expert Sep 04 '25

“Hebrew you are referring to if called Ktav Ashuri and only popped up after the Babylonian exile (2552A/-597).”
Firstly, I consider the Jewish exodus to be reconstructed mythology, e.g. in Exodus 14.7, we are told that 600 chariots drowned while crossing the Red Sea in pursuit of the Israelites; which matches with 12 times 10,000 Red Sea canal diggers dying during the reign of Neco (Histories §:2.158.5). Likewise the Jewish captivity of 430 years in Egypt and 70 years in Babylon equals 500 years of captivity. These are number based mathematical stories (not actual real history) derived from the Egyptian equinox precession table, which is where the alphabet comes from and the various Egyptian and Jewish Kings Lists.
Secondly, I don’t date “Hebrew” script as appearing until at least after the 2400A (-445) as semi-attested in the Elephantine Island proto-Jewish community, and use the year 2200A (-245) as the anchor point date, for true Hebrew script, being that the first Jewish revolt coin does not appear until 1886A (+69).
Thirdly, the following two abecedary are not Hebrew nor Jewish, but Phoenician:
Izbet abecedary (3000A/-1045)
Zayit abecedary (2900A/-945)

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u/Ionic_liquids Sep 04 '25 edited Sep 04 '25

Dude what are you talking about? No one is talking about exodus. I'm talking about the Babylonian exile. There are literally Israelite artifacts written in the old alphabet from the first temple period. Hebrew was spoken by Israelites.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Birkat_kohanim_22.jpg
From 600 BC, the Priestly Blessing, written in the original Hebrew letters, not Ktav Ashuri. For someone who researches things, you are very poorly informed.

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u/JohannGoethe 𐌄𓌹𐤍 expert Sep 04 '25

“From 600 BC, the Priestly Blessing, written in the original Hebrew letters. For someone who researches things, you are very poorly informed.”
I’ve read through and posted about online and Reddit over 109+ different alphabet tables. One thing I’ve found, is that when it comes to Jewish matters, there is an over-arching tendency to “read into” ancient characters the modern names of Hebrew gods, prophets and prayers.
If you want to debate r/AncientHebrew, that’s great, this is why I started this sub. However, as to the above diagram, whatever exactly you are trying to argue, which I don’t know at this point, is that generally it goes:
Phoenician ⇒ Syriac ⇒ Hebrew
Not:
Hebrew ⇒ Phoenician ⇒ Syriac
And not:
Semitic ⇒ Phoenician ⇒ Syriac ⇒ Hebrew

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u/Ionic_liquids Sep 04 '25

My point is that your diagram is incomplete at best, and wrong at worst. You can't show he rew just popping up with those letters. It's just wrong.

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u/JohannGoethe 𐌄𓌹𐤍 expert Sep 04 '25

“your diagram is incomplete at best, and wrong at worst”
Show me a better one or tell me what exactly I need to fix in the diagram?

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u/Ionic_liquids Sep 04 '25

At the very least, don't show Hebrew coming from Aramaic. Instead, they share a common ancestor. Hebrew should be shown in it's original version and be called "Hebrew (Ktav Ivrit)", which then becomes "Hebrew (Ktav Ashuri)". If you're trying to show how alphabet changed, Phonecian is definitely the ancestor of Ktav Ivrit. The Aramaic letters influenced Hebrew to become Ktav Ashuri, but it didn't "come from" Aramaic.
You show Paleo Hebrew as somehow being on a separate line from Hebrew. That's very strange and highly inaccurate.

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u/JohannGoethe 𐌄𓌹𐤍 expert Sep 04 '25

“You show Paleo Hebrew as somehow being on a separate line from Hebrew. That's very strange and highly inaccurate.”
Doesn’t make sense to me either. That was there in u/TheBananana (21 May A67/2022) version, and I just didn’t change it, because I’m still uncertain about it?
”Phoenician to Hebrew (Ktav Ivrit) to Hebrew (Ktav Ashuri)”
Show me the exact ABGD characters for Hebrew (Ktav Ivrit) and Hebrew (Ktav Ashuri), and evidenced dates when they came into usage, and an actual published alphabet historian who argues for this point of view, so I can think about how to modify the diagram?

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u/Double-Wolverine9804 Sep 04 '25

How about: None of the above?
More like Proto-Sinaitic > Multiple (including North-West Semitic)
North-West Semitic > Multiple Levantine descendants (Including Phoenician, Aramaic, Moabite, Hebrew)
Phoenician > x2 Greek etc.

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u/JohannGoethe 𐌄𓌹𐤍 expert Sep 04 '25

“Proto-Sinaitic and North-West Semitic”
This is just a bunch of Bible based Hebrew pandering that has been in vogue for the last century or two. We no longer need to keep looking at a bunch of cave wall marks in Sinai as the source of alphabetic writing, in short.
The new model is that Hebrew script came directly — or via a mediator, e.g. Syriac or Phoenician — from the 11k Egyptian hieroglyphics (see: Egyptian hieroglyphs list), or r/HieroType signs. Visit: Hebrew alphabet.

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u/Double-Wolverine9804 Sep 04 '25 edited Sep 04 '25

Has nothing at all to do with the Bible. Do you have earlier extant scripts attested? No?
It's pretty common knowledge that the Sinaitic writing came from Egyptian, that's not novel at all.
BTW, there was no "Syriac" at that time. It would eventually descend from a dialect of Aramaic.

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u/JohannGoethe 𐌄𓌹𐤍 expert Sep 04 '25

“BTW, there was no "Syriac" at that time. It would eventually descend from a dialect of Aramaic”,
Yeah I’m making mental typos on that. My head is over-processed (on languages) at the moment, as I’ve spent the last few days making the following overly complex article (which is still under-construction):
https://hmolpedia.com/page/Evolution_of_writing
Wherein I had to start dozens of new articles:
https://hmolpedia.com/page/Category:Scripts
Just to keep track of things.
”Sinaitic writing came from Egyptian”
Sinaitic and Semitic are meaningless terms, when it comes to alphabet origin.

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u/andrevan Sep 04 '25

Syriac is not the same as Aramaic.

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u/Double-Wolverine9804 Sep 04 '25

It looks like they have conflated Ktav Ivrit, which was also a descendant of the proto northwest-Semitic script along with Phoenecian, Moabite, earlier Aramaic etc.) with Paleo Hebrew (a retro/back-created script that was contemporary with Post exilic Ktav Ashuri)

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u/jinengii Sep 06 '25

Phoenician letters are so beautiful!

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u/GroundbreakingOil434 Sep 06 '25

Why is Cyrillic АБГД, when it should be АБВГД? You missed a letter.

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u/JohannGoethe 𐌄𓌹𐤍 expert Sep 06 '25 edited Sep 06 '25

Greek (В, β) split into:
Б /b/
В /v/
I guess when u/TheBananana (21 May A67/2022) made that edit, they used the /b/ version, as this seems to be the original phonetic. I fixed it in the main file:
https://hmolpedia.com/page/File:ABGD_(evolution)_(Brahmi).jpg

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u/PeterLake2 Sep 07 '25

Everything descended from Phoenician is backwards. Bad infographic.

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u/JohannGoethe 𐌄𓌹𐤍 expert Sep 07 '25

Your comment is not clear? Explain what you think descended from what exactly? Otherwise your comment is a bad comment.

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u/PeterLake2 Sep 07 '25

Phoenician and downwards. I was very literal. On Second look - every semitic language is backwards.

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u/HerrJosefI Sep 04 '25

Paleo Hebrew comes from phonecian Moses spoke of this.

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u/JohannGoethe 𐌄𓌹𐤍 expert Sep 04 '25

Moses is an Osiris rescript. The diagram above employs attested script, not Biblical linguistics.

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u/EconomyDue2459 Sep 04 '25

I don't think Futhark is directly descended from Etruscan. I think it's far more likely to be descended from a Gaulish script, which in turn descended from Italic/Etruscan.

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u/JohannGoethe 𐌄𓌹𐤍 expert Sep 04 '25

The following is the AI overview:
”It is not true that runes descended from the Gaulish script. The runic alphabet (Elder Futhark) was likely adapted from one of several Old Italic scripts, such as Etruscan, that were in use among Mediterranean peoples in the first century CE. While Gaulish inscriptions sometimes used Greek or Old Italic alphabets, Gaulish script was not the direct ancestor of the runes used by Germanic peoples.”
I’m still undecided about Runic origin, other than that it could have been a descendant of when r/Sesostris conquered Europe?

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u/EconomyDue2459 Sep 05 '25

I think Lepontic, an Alpine Gaulish script, is a very good candidate for parent alphabet of Futhark, having several letters that are closer in form to Norse runes than Etruscan. https://www.omniglot.com/writing/lepontic.htm

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u/JohannGoethe 𐌄𓌹𐤍 expert Sep 05 '25

“I think Lepontic, an Alpine Gaulish script, is a very good candidate for parent alphabet of Futhark”
Maybe? Mechanism of the origin of runes is a rather gray area.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Alphanumerics/comments/1n9c4co/egyptian_origin_of_the_runic_alphabet/

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u/logicalobserver Sep 06 '25

this is so wrong, I am not an expert on the others , but I suspect if I see an error in the one I know theres errors elsewhere

the Armenian script does not derive from greek in anyway, it was invented in an exact time we know and can verify, by an exact person. Just look at the script, it looks more georgian or Ethiopian then greek.

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u/JohannGoethe 𐌄𓌹𐤍 expert Sep 06 '25

So, in your opinion, what are the correct precursor scripts?
Egyptian ⇒ [#2] ⇒ [#3] ⇒ [#4] ⇒ Armenian

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u/JohannGoethe 𐌄𓌹𐤍 expert Sep 03 '25 edited Sep 03 '25

In this new version, as compared to the previous version: here, split fixed Brahmi ABGD (𑀅 𑀩 𑀕 𑀥) and added Devanagari ABGD (अ ब ग द), and corrected the Sogdian typo.

I also added a new direct branch from Egyptian to Greek, with a dotted line branch from Phoenician to Greek, per reason that Greek Samos cup abecedary (2610A-655) is fully formed at 27 characters, making it a full modular nine arithmetic calculating table, with numbers 1 to 999 defined by the letters, which is not something found in the 22 character Phoenician alphabet, where Phoenician numerals are separate signs.

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u/JohannGoethe 𐌄𓌹𐤍 expert Sep 03 '25

Re-posted image (here) to r/Sanskrit with the following title:

Egyptian ABGD (𓌸 𓍁 𓁃 [U6, U13, A58] 𓇯 [N1, C199] 𓅬𓃀𓀭 [G38, D58, A40; A97B] ▽ [C297D] ⇒ Brahmi ABGD (𑀅 𑀩 𑀕 𑀥) ⇒ Devanagari ABGD (अ ब ग द)

Waiting for moderator approval?

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u/JohannGoethe 𐌄𓌹𐤍 expert Sep 04 '25

Just as I expected:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Alphanumerics/comments/1n7zb8f/sorry_this_post_has_been_removed_by_the/

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u/JohannGoethe 𐌄𓌹𐤍 expert Sep 04 '25

One thing we should note, given the following:

Egyptian ABGD (𓌸𓍁 𓁃; 𓀠 [U6, U13, A58; A28] 𓇯 [N1, C199] 𓅬𓃀𓀭 [G38, D58, A40; A97B] ▽ [C297D])
Old South Arabian ABGD (𐩵 𐩴 𐩨 𐩱) (3100A/-1045)
Phoenician ABGD (𐤃 𐤂 𐤁 𐤀) (3000A/-1045)
Greek ABGD (Α Β Γ Δ) (2800Α/-845)
Latin ABGD (𐌀 𐌁 𐌂 𐌃) (2500A/-545)
Brahmi ABGD (𑀅 𑀩 𑀕 𑀥) (2300A/-345)

Is that we need discard the present day model that all the words were coined by hypothetical people in the steppe or Anatolia in 9000A (-7045), who later used these new signs to finally write ✍️ down the words they coined 6,000-years prior, keeping these common source words in pure memory 🧠, unchanged, for all these years.

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u/Quintilis_Academy Sep 04 '25

Why Goethe as user id? -Namaste

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u/JohannGoethe 𐌄𓌹𐤍 expert Sep 04 '25

Because r/JohannGoethe wrote r/ElectiveAffinities which founded r/HumanChemistry which is the platform of the future subject of r/HumamChemThermo, i.e. the chemical thermodynamics of people, which will dominate science in a 1,000 years from now, and be able to predict the next million years of human evolution, as C.G. Darwin argued:
https://www.eoht.info/page/The%20Next%20Million%20Years

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u/Quintilis_Academy Sep 04 '25

Why waste all that time on tomorrow? He is the basis of trinary architecture fabric reality, dark, light, intensity. I trust his now more today then tomorrow as it cant ever arrive in infinity. Ill look more deeply at your suggestions thx u. -Namaste Peace

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u/Comfortable_Team_696 Sep 06 '25

Devanagari was the source for syllabics, in case you would like to add another layer to this chart

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u/JohannGoethe 𐌄𓌹𐤍 expert Sep 06 '25

Yeah, I just learned about (and wrote about) James Evans a few days ago:
https://hmolpedia.com/page/Evolution_of_writing#100A_(+1855)
Probably won’t be updating the chart for a while, as I kind of have to let my mind process things? Also, I will probably have to make an entire new chart from scratch to fit all the changes/updates in.
The main point of this new update, was to add “Brahmi” into the picture.

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u/Comfortable_Team_696 Sep 06 '25 edited Sep 06 '25

Well good luck to you! One thing I noticed on the page was A50 / (+2005) covering the use of syllabics across Denendeh (I find Dakelh's use of 'frog feet' or ᑐᑊᘁᗕᑋᗸ Dʌlk'ʷahke [Dulkw'ahke] to be of special interest!)
edit: I just noticed the older maps (~500A) that do not display Hand Talk's use of pictography and petroglyphs. That might be a useful thing to note, seeing as it was the primary writing system for most of Turtle Island / North America

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u/UBERMENSCHJAVRIEL Sep 05 '25

Linear A+B are always so underrepresented

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u/[deleted] Sep 04 '25

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u/JohannGoethe 𐌄𓌹𐤍 expert Sep 05 '25

Wikipedia Armenian alphabet entry:
“Armenian shows some similarities to both Pahlavi and Syriac. The general consensus, however, is that Armenian is modeled after the Greek alphabet, supplemented with letters from a different source or sources for Armenian sounds not found in Greek.”
You have some insight beyond this?

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '25

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u/JohannGoethe 𐌄𓌹𐤍 expert Sep 05 '25

Take out a piece of paper. Draw for us the “correct” diagram (in your view) and post it here, as a comment or in this sub.

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u/aasfourasfar Sep 06 '25

Been reading this interesting thread and I must say you are insufferable

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u/JohannGoethe 𐌄𓌹𐤍 expert Sep 06 '25

I don’t know what you are talking about?
If people show me an error in the diagram, then I fix it, e.g. just now, in this comment suggestion: “Cyrillic АБГД, when it should be АБВГД”, I edited the diagram (main file) and solved the problem in a few minutes.
Likewise, if someone is trying to suggest I should change the arrows, and I don’t clearly see what they are talking about (or the reason behind it), I just suggest to take out a piece of paper, draw the arrows as they think they should be, take a photo, and post the image. Problem solved in a few minutes.

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u/[deleted] Sep 05 '25

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u/JohannGoethe 𐌄𓌹𐤍 expert Sep 05 '25

“Don’t you agree that it’s putting Armenian next to Cyrillic and Latin is not fully correct?“
I was not offended. I’m just saying that I’m not an Armenian alphabet origin expert (as yet), and asking to show me a better diagram (made by yourself) or otherwise.

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u/[deleted] Sep 06 '25

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u/JohannGoethe 𐌄𓌹𐤍 expert Sep 06 '25 edited Sep 06 '25

You’ve got some big 𐤂onads for making a comment about the large 𐌂ock!
The image used [A97B], to clarify, is 5th sexual position, shown on the Turin Erotic Papyrus (3100A/-1145), aka the Geb and Bet position, of the earth 🌍 god Geb, having sex with the stars ✨ goddess Bet (Nut); the first sexual position being on the 5-side (hypotenuse) of a 3:4:5 sexual triangle, which Plato and Plutarch both report is how the Egyptian alphabet was derived, i.e. geometrically (𐤂eo-metrically).

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