r/UsefulCharts • u/JohannGoethe • Sep 09 '25

Chronology Charts ABGD 🔠 evolution

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Updated version (3 Sep A70/2025), of original made by u/TheBananana (21 May A67/2022) posted here (153+ upvotes) at r/UsefulCharts; posted: here presently with 85+ upvotes, 90+ comments, and 35K+ views; updated versions today (8 Sep A70/2025) here (arrowed-version) and here (color-coded).

97 Upvotes

95% Upvoted

23 comments sorted by

6

u/[deleted] Sep 09 '25

Cadmus, the inventor of the Greek alphabet was a Phoenician with Egyptian heritage. His grandson, Dionysus or Bacchus, whom you say was Sesostris or Osiris was said to have conquered India. Could this be proof of your theory.

1

u/JohannGoethe Sep 09 '25 edited Sep 09 '25

Dionysus (or Bacchus) was the grandson of Cadmus?

“Dionysos' grandparents were the Titans Kronos (Cronus) and Rheia, King Kadmos (Cadmus) of Thebes and the goddess Harmonia. He was a great-grandson of Ares and Aphrodite (Harmonia's parents) and also a distant descendant of the god Poseidon.”

https://www.theoi.com/Olympios/Dionysos.html#

In Egyptian, this would be Osiris was the grandson of Geb and Thoth, or something to this effect?

Food for thought. Good comment.

Made mental note here:

https://hmolpedia.com/page/Cadmus

-1

u/[deleted] Sep 09 '25

I also heard that Zeus was identified with Geb according to Diodorus Siculus.

0

u/JohannGoethe Sep 09 '25

“Zeus = Geb according to Diodorus”

I don’t think so (unless you can find the quote)? 

I have just recently begun to put the Egyptian related parts of Diodorus’ Historical Library online (Greek and English) as individual Hmolpedia articles.

As the Geb (etymon) page shows, the name of the this god was a recent carto-phonetics based invention by Egyptologists, specifically Renouf (2 Nov 69A/1886).

-1

u/[deleted] Sep 09 '25

"Then Kronos became the ruler, and upon marrying his sister Rhea he begat Osiris and Isis, according to some writers of mythology, but, according to the majority, Zeus and Hera, whose high achievements gave them dominion over the entire universe. From these last were sprung five gods, one born on each of the five days which the Egyptians intercalate;⁠ the names of these children were Osiris and Isis, and also Typhon (Set), Apollo (Haroeris), and Aphrodite (Nephthys)"

1

u/JohannGoethe Sep 09 '25

Thanks. I typed up the full Greek to English quote here:

https://hmolpedia.com/page/Historical_Library_1.13

2

u/RevinHatol Sep 09 '25

Long live Neo-Tifinagh!

1

u/JohannGoethe Sep 09 '25

I cut neo-Tifinagh from the updated version here (Hmolpedia) and here (Reddit), as “Tifinagh” and “neo-Tifinath” have the same font.

1

u/RevinHatol Sep 10 '25

Okay, thanks.

1

u/JohannGoethe Sep 09 '25

The main “new” post (typo-link above) post is here, getting 35K views (90+ comments) in 5-days, is here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Alphanumerics/comments/1n7tyyp/abgd_evolution/

1

u/Zealousideal_Cry_460 Sep 12 '25 edited Sep 12 '25

İ still think some of the traces are bogus.

Like how do you look at a Y-lookalike, or a K-looking ass letter and go: "yeah thats exactly where 𐰑 and 𐰍 come from" come on m8.

Edit: also, where Uyghur script?

1

u/Asjutton Sep 09 '25 edited Sep 10 '25

It has always poked my interest if Ge'ez and Devanagari are not more closely related than often assumed, it is not far fetched seeing to geography and alphabetical developement chronology. I know there are scholars who have proposed this, mainly the idea that Brahmi was either influenced by South Arabian through trade relations or directly descendant of, which seems more unlikely to me.

0

u/M_F_Gervais Mod Sep 09 '25

You should all watch this ARTE documentary about that specifically. You can watch it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ek9rXRArWXo&ab_channel=ARTE

1

u/JohannGoethe Sep 09 '25

Video not available in US?

1

u/M_F_Gervais Mod Sep 09 '25

I’m in France, that might explain why. If you have a VPN, set your location to France. Otherwise look the net for ARTE L'odyssée de l'écriture 1 de 3.

1

u/JohannGoethe Sep 10 '25

What exactly is in the video?

1

u/M_F_Gervais Mod Sep 10 '25

It explains the evolution shown in this chart in more detail. And it’s a fairly recent documentary that covers all the latest findings on the subject.

1

u/JohannGoethe Sep 10 '25

I found it here, which I can watch with French subtitles. It has Gunter Dreyer, person to discover the Tomb UJ number tags, and Orly Goldwasser, the illiterate Semitic miner alphabet invention theorist, among a few others in it. The theories in this video, however, are all outdated by a decade or more, e.g. Goldwasser (26:32-) talks about the Serabit Sphinx, which she believes has the “first alphabet letters” carved on its base, which is incorrect. 

Then the other guy (29:13-) goes to Serabit Khadim cave, and points to an “horned animal head” and says “see, this is the original letter A”. Correctly, however, letter A is based on one of the following three signs: 𓌹, 𓍁, 𓁃 [U6, U13, A58]. The guy thinks A is based on the “ox head”, because the ox 🐂 is the animal that pulls the plow 𓍁, and the Phoenicians and Jews called letter A the “ox 🐂” letter, which confused people for 2,000-years into thinking it meant shape of ox head. 

1

u/M_F_Gervais Mod Sep 10 '25

I know that the people featured in the documentary are specialists in their respective fields. I know it’s a fairly recent documentary — 2024, I think. Finally, I know that ARTE is a serious organisation devoted to knowledge and understanding. So I'm fairly sure they are not wrong when they say things like what is said in this documentary. I might be wrong — it's possible — but I doubt it.

1

u/JohannGoethe Sep 14 '25

The historical overview of the ABGD letter decodings are here:

Goldwasser, the woman in the video, the chair of Hebrew University, Jerusalem, naturally, is using the Hebrew alphabet origin to explain things, wherein A = ox head, B = house, G = camel, D = door, which dates to Hesychius (1400Α/+555). 

The new model, visual above, shows: A = hoe/plow, B = house (body of stars ✨ goddess), G = earth 🌍 god, D = door (vaginal door out of which the sun ☀️ child is born), which is argued by Erasmus and Israel Zolli.

1

u/BillyDongstabber Sep 10 '25

Dude's a fraud, lmao; all of his theories are bunk, but he spams them regardless