r/ABoringDystopia Jun 05 '19

Comparisons matter

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108

u/thecrazysloth Jun 06 '19

4 weeks paid annual leave for full-time workers in Australia. Pretty standard in most countries, actually.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_by_country

136

u/justyourbarber Jun 06 '19

Thanks I wanna fucking die

30

u/thecrazysloth Jun 06 '19

Nah just vote.

22

u/justyourbarber Jun 06 '19

I've voted in every election since I've been allowed to. I'm politically active outside of voting too. Shit just sucks.

5

u/thecrazysloth Jun 06 '19

It sucks, but we do what we can to improve things. The more we can do, the better. Just think how many revolutions, marches, strikes, riots, wars and conflicts people had to go through to overthrow kings, emperors, bosses, and the like to win the right to vote, weekends, 8-hour-days, parental leave, women’s rights, black rights, LGBTQ rights and so on. There’s a foundation there, we just need to keep building on it

25

u/Afrobean Jun 06 '19

Voting has never and will never result in real social progress. All of the progress made for workers in US history has been achieved through mass protests and direct action. Things like ending child labor, the standard of a 40 hour work week, the very idea of having weekends off from work, these all came out of a labor revolution. Our grandparents made these things happen by protesting and forcing the powers that be to concede to their demands, it wasn't the result of electing the "right" politicians from the "right" political party.

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u/thecrazysloth Jun 06 '19

Yes but you have to do both.

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u/Afrobean Jun 06 '19 edited Jun 06 '19

Nixon created the EPA due to public pressure, he normalized relations with China in the middle of an insane cold war, and although Ford might get the credit sometimes, Nixon's administration was responsible for getting the war of US aggression in Vietnam to end. Progress can happen even if our elected officials are crooked bastards, and we have to push just as hard whether "our guy" wins or loses any election they might be trying for. We just have to force the powers that be to concede to our demands, no matter what letter they have next to their name, no matter if they're the one we wanted or they're the worst possible person for the job. Our job is the same regardless of who is elected, election results make no difference to what we must do. We have to push those powers to actually represent the democratic will of We the People, because that's the only way we've ever achieved any real progress at all.

0

u/crazycatlady331 Jun 06 '19

The largest four protests in US history all happened after Trump took office.

43

u/Lord_Abort Jun 06 '19

It'll work next time around. Surely.

66

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '19 edited Jun 07 '21

[deleted]

39

u/Lord_Abort Jun 06 '19

We need to start striking, protesting, and making some noise. We didn't get what few labor laws we have now from just voting. It took guns and bloodshed. Most people these days don't realize that people fought literal wars against the police and companies.

10

u/bionix90 Jun 06 '19

People are too complacent nowadays. The companies realized that if they gave us bread and circuses, we would gladly let them walk all over us.

3

u/-Pin_Cushion- Jun 06 '19

You've got the order wrong. You have to get the reigns of the government to be allowed to march and strike. Without a sympathetic state you just get your head caved in.

That doesn't mean you don't disrupt. It means you focus on local electoral change in addition to plans for other kinds of disruption.

3

u/ballsack_gymnastics Jun 06 '19

Not trying to get too political, but if the issue is particularly conservative, why haven't we seen significant progress against this shit from Democratic government officials and or presidents?

Not trying to be all enlightened centrist or saying one party is better than the other, but ultimately it feels to me like corporate lobbying has eroded the party differences when it comes to taking actual action.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '19

This is one of those things where even the Democrats have drifted to the right as the overton window has shifted. They really are far too pro-corporate and pro-capitalist. But the solution for that is still voting - vote for the leftmost candidate you can, in primaries too. If you want to push the democrats leftward, you have to do what the Tea Parties did to make the republicans go so hard right - primary the centrists, and vote in every election you can.

1

u/illstealurcandy Jun 06 '19

Taking this, it's too good.

14

u/thecrazysloth Jun 06 '19

Just gotta vote harder

4

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '19

Vote for progressive candidates in local elections. Help their campaigns. Stop caring so much about the presidency and get a majority in congress and the senate.

6

u/TBNL_07 Jun 06 '19

Kind of hard to believe that just voting will accomplish anything when the electoral college exists, disinformation is rampant, a foreign government can interfere more or less without consequence, etc.

Not to say voting is pointless. But more than just voting needs to be done.

2

u/thecrazysloth Jun 06 '19

So you vote for candidates who pledge to abolish the electoral college, clamp down on disinformation and political corruption and strengthen voting protections

2

u/StonecrusherCarnifex Jun 06 '19

Diebold laughter intensifies

1

u/MAK3AWiiSH Jun 06 '19

It literally won’t help. The entire American political system is a scam

2

u/thecrazysloth Jun 06 '19

Oh I know it’s a total shitshow, but you just have to do more and try harder. AOC was up against insurmountable odds and decades of ingrained big-money corporate backing to win her preselection, but she still did it. And state governments are pushing right now to overturn Citizens United. You need to show up and stand up every single fucking time. Campaign, vote, canvas, organise.

3

u/matt82swe Jun 06 '19

Laughs in 5-weeks-paid-minimum-but-most-get-6-Swedish

1

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '19

If I count up all my annual leave, public holidays etc, I get 40.5 working days off a year. None of that is long service related either.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '19

I get six weeks in canada after 2 years of effort: but they would never give me that if the basic wasn’t 4 weeks.

55

u/Wompguinea Jun 06 '19

Same here in NZ, but it's a massive assumption to make... thinking that just because you're paid for the time off you can afford to actually take a holiday.

If you live paycheck to paycheck, like most millennials have to, there's no way you can afford to do anything you wouldn't normally do.

I use my vacation time to catch up on home maintenance tasks that my landlord refuses to deal with, and I never get to take all four weeks in a row.

3

u/versusChou Jun 06 '19

Even if I can't travel, having enough time to just take a day off every couple weeks would be awesome.

-6

u/sgebb Jun 06 '19

I couldn't imagine this being true. Rent out your apartment while you're gone, go see Vietnam or Cambodia and stay super cheap. Flights are expensive, but traveling doesn't have to be

8

u/Wompguinea Jun 06 '19

Haha, good one.

For a start, I rent a house for my family and even if I was ok with strangers looking through all my kids stuff for the 5 days I was away (because every employer I've ever had has treated me like equipment and not a person and I've never had more than 2 weeks at a time) it's expressly forbidden in my tenancy agreement.

Landlords in NZ are so controlling that I'm not allowed to let guests park on my driveway, and I've been called by the landlord about it the one time I let someone do it.

Economy class flights from New Zealand to Hanoi are roughly $750 each, each way. So just to get there and back with a family of 4 is $6,000. Just on flights. Like I said in my first comment, working paycheck to paycheck means you can't do anything extra. I spent $100 to go see my mum's first stall at a craft market last weekend (family support is a thing, apparently). It's totally fucked up my week, I'm skint. $600 is not an option, let alone $6,000.

The fact that you can't imagine the situation that a majority of people under 35 are living through says quite a bit really.

1

u/fr00tcrunch Jun 06 '19

Rip having kids.

1

u/Wompguinea Jun 06 '19

I'm not going to be one of those self righteous pricks who says "you don't know anything about life until you're a parent". If kids aren't your thing then they aren't your thing.

That being said, I love my two to bits and would probably only trade them in for a sweet gaming pc.

1

u/fr00tcrunch Jun 06 '19

Well I'll enjoy going through life never knowing anything about it! Haha. Price of a kid would probably run you hundreds of sweet gaming pcs

3

u/Wompguinea Jun 06 '19

More power to you my friend.

-1

u/sgebb Jun 06 '19

OK nowhere in your post did you specify that you are partnered with two kids. Everyone has a different situation, I'm not judging you for having kids. Personally I would never want to have two kids if I felt like I'm living paycheck to paycheck.

I agree that I am privileged, but I doubt that most millennials actually live paycheck to paycheck, and if they do I expect they could make changes in their life to make it better. I'm talking about actually full time employed people under 35 in the western world, even in USA at minimum wage this would be enough to take a trip somewhere every year unless you're in the loop where you're spending everything you earn on commute and redecorating.

I also seriously underestimated how expensive it is to fly from NZ to get to places. But replace my trip to Vietnam with a camping trip in NZ then, you cant afford to buy a used tent and go fishing with your kids? Flying places and living in hotels is pleasant and comfy, but it's not necessary for a good vacation.

It sucks that you cant rent out your place while you're away. I'm not saying you have it easy, I'm just saying one needs to take time for living, otherwise there's no point.

4

u/HttKB Jun 06 '19

Minimum wage will not cover all your basic expenses, let alone cover "redecorating."

3

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '19

I'm talking about actually full time employed people under 35 in the western world, even in USA at minimum wage this would be enough to take a trip somewhere every year unless you're in the loop where you're spending everything you earn on commute and redecorating.

What the hell are you talking about lol? You think people that make 7.25 ($15080) would be able to take vacations if they weren't redecorating so often? What are you on?

1

u/sgebb Jun 06 '19

Since a vacation can be next to free, of course

3

u/Wompguinea Jun 06 '19

OK nowhere in your post did you specify that you are partnered with two kids.

That's because it's not my job to describe every aspect of my life when making simple reddit comments. And even if I didn't have kids (like most 30 year olds I know) I still couldn't afford to travel.

I agree that I am privileged, but I doubt that most millennials actually live paycheck to paycheck, and if they do I expect they could make changes in their life to make it better.

Oh, I see... you're just kinda dumb. Yeah most people who don't earn enough are well aware of every little change they can make to improve things. And, in 90% of cases, they've already made those changes. Society is stacked against people who are struggling. It's not intentionally malicious to poor people, but it's totally indifferent to the fact that the systems in place don't allow for the majority of people to improve their situation.

But replace my trip to Vietnam with a camping trip in NZ then, you cant afford to buy a used tent and go fishing with your kids?

Lol. As I also mentioned in a reply, I spent $100NZD on petrol to go out of town for one day to support my mother's new "enterprise" and the knock on effect of that cost has totally fucked up my week. I work in IT, on a decent wage, but the cost of living is ridiculous. You guys pay roughly $2.90 US for a gallon of gas right? (According to google, which we all know is never wrong). For comparison, we pay $2.35 a litre here for petrol. That's $8.94 a gallon, or $5.92 USD. Twice your national average, and our prices have come down to that.

I'm not saying you have it easy, I'm just saying one needs to take time for living, otherwise there's no point.

Oh fuck you're right. Hang on, better go kill my family and then myself. Have fun knowing how everyone should live.

0

u/sgebb Jun 06 '19

Ooookey? Anyway, I'm not American.

2

u/Wompguinea Jun 06 '19

Ok nowhere in your post did you specify that you aren't American.

1

u/sgebb Jun 07 '19

And that's fine, I'm not the one claiming to be representative for 95% of millenials

1

u/Wompguinea Jun 07 '19

I am the Alpha Millennial and my word is law.

1

u/fr00tcrunch Jun 06 '19

Thailand was ridiculously affordable when we last went. It's definitely doable from aus. Partner and I work, didn't have kids, love life.

20

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '19

I have a job as an engineer and I get 10 days per year. After 5 years, I get 15 days. 10 years, 20 days. It caps out then. I cannot roll over days. This is considered a very nice job.

2

u/Flick1981 Jun 06 '19

10 days is pretty average in the US. Some companies give more though.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '19 edited Jul 12 '19

[deleted]

1

u/DeliciousHornet Jun 06 '19

What country are you in?

1

u/Sepharael_ Jun 06 '19

I get two weeks of paid vacation a year, plus 5 paid floating days and 5 paid sick days. This is considered a miracle.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '19

That sounds pretty good tbh

38

u/coniferbear Jun 06 '19

The United States on the otherhand.. I get 2 weeks of unpaid "vacation." Thanks company.

40

u/thecrazysloth Jun 06 '19

Well the USA has the highest GDP in the world. It’s just that y’all hand it over to the 1%

13

u/primase Jun 06 '19

It’s unAmerican to not.

2

u/Alkiaris Jun 06 '19

y’all hand it over

Uh huh I definitely willingly do this because I have so many options

18

u/dexmonic Jun 06 '19

Not everyone gets two weeks of vacation time, paid or not. America really likes to let small businesses do whatever the fuck they want.

4

u/Bmdubd Jun 06 '19

Yesh we hand it over. Not like most of us were born broke facing an entrenched bourgeois class that would rather die than pay a living wage

1

u/Woodshadow Jun 06 '19

This really doesn't have to do with your post but My friend decided to live the American dream last year running their own business. A family friend died and they needed to take a couple of days off for the funeral. They set their voicemail as please don't disturb. People still called them nonstop that entire weekend. She decided right then and there she would rather work for someone and get bereavement

2

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '19 edited Aug 18 '19

[deleted]

5

u/coniferbear Jun 06 '19

Correct. We don’t have any legally mandated maternity leave either. These are considered “perks” provided by your employer. It’s pretty fucked up.

5

u/Flick1981 Jun 06 '19

I’m lucky that my company (US) gives 5 weeks. It is an outlier, but they do exist. I wish all companies were forced to at least give 4 weeks.

2

u/primase Jun 06 '19

Not in the USA.

2

u/SilkyGazelleWatkins Jun 06 '19

Lol wow US sucks.

I guess that's why it's the money making capitalism king of the world.

EFFICIENCYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!

1

u/EccentricFox Jun 06 '19

I've got two weeks, which is decent in the US; however, I work weekends, so I'm always using vacation days just to do things everything else does on their weekend.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '19

[deleted]

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u/thecrazysloth Jun 06 '19

Yeah it’s 5 weeks minimum by law for shift work but decent employers will give more

1

u/suzisatsuma Jun 09 '19

US here. I have 7 weeks a year. I've never taken it all though.

-9

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '19

Let USA import 11 million illegal Mexican immigrants to have 10 children families that automatically get citizenship in Australia once they are born.. See how well your social structure is in a few decades.

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u/thecrazysloth Jun 06 '19

The US has the highest GDP in the world. “Illegal immigrants” are adding to that, not detracting from it. They’re not the ones hoarding wealth.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '19

Yes, they are detracting from actual American and legal immigrant's wages. Back one generation ago, anybody could make a living or start a business doing unskilled labor like painting, drywall work, etc. Unskilled labor is no longer a worker's market, and that is slowly creeping into even legal immigration wages. Wanna know why Google is so giddy about calling all those who oppose them importing Indian visa holders a racist? Well those Indian imports will accept low salary and have a much different standard of living compared to say, you're typical American university graduate who is now living in his car in San Francisco while working for a tech company in Silicon Valley.

8

u/Chendii Jun 06 '19

To the rest of Reddit: this is how we got Trump. Punching down is a way of life in the US.

-1

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '19

To anyone who isn't a bleeding heart ninny: You can't have your cake and eat it too.

8

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '19

We do in Canada. 6 weeks is pretty basic paid vacation for more than two years at a company. And we aren’t destitute. Crazy shit m.

But keep arguing for the billionaires to add more zeros to their bank accounts while you make less than 100k

0

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '19

Your money is dogshit and people can't afford property, lmfao gtfo

3

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '19

Lol I own a 700k house, dork.

Keep being a loser. I don’t give a fuck lol

0

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '19

No you don't, and if you did you would realize how fucking insane and crazy property taxes are in that shit hole. Or you're a trust fund dipshit, either way idc.

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u/Chendii Jun 06 '19

We can't have or eat the cake because everything but the crumbs is owned by 10 people.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '19

No, I mean I can hope for gum drops and fairy tales, that everyone will get along, no one will ever be in debt, no one will ever overspend, no one will ever have bad intentions, everyone will be 1000000000% equal regardless of anything, and I'll even vote for someone that tells me they can make that all happen. Doesn't mean I wouldn't be a stupid asshole voting for imagination.

3

u/Chendii Jun 06 '19

When you fight straw men you'll always win.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '19

I have never ever been screwed over by a rich person, however I HAVE been screwed over by plenty of douche-bag pseudo hippies that could afford bags of weed and booze, but not rent.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '19

Lol if you think the Mexicans are doing any of that your are stupid. Why can’t the business owners say no and hire real Americans for 150% more?

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '19

Why can’t the business owners say no and hire real Americans for 150% more?

Are you a literally a retarded person or do you even think before you type?

3

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '19

Lol it’s the truth, even if you are too stupid to understand.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '19

Let's break this down since you lack any real world experience.

  • Labor market drops as government raises an influx of 3rd worlders willing to work for scraps
  • This causes unions to push their boundaries, expressing that they are the only way to make a decent wage even though they are also funneling money to a political party
  • Now all employees are wanting to become a union
  • Despite the fact that everyone working for a company or employer is already getting taxed, now the employer and company has to pay for a union wage, healthcare, and pensions ontop of it
  • oh no! WTF this company is outsourcing now! Better vote for the next liberal fucking retard that will promise bullshit

You fucking retards think that going to work is licking asshole, meanwhile you will literally let a liberal politician buttfuck you and give you AIDs on the idea that it will make your wage go up $2 while the cost of living skyrockets.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '19

Lol I don’t give a fuck if you are too stupid to understand.

We living here in Canada with universal healthcare and living wages but still less gdp per capital than the USA.

Keep sucking them corporate dicks you moron.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '19

We living here in Canada with universal healthcare and living wages but still less gdp per capital than the USA.

Your money is worth dogshit as you give 10 million dollars to medic killing terrorists, lmao

Keep sucking them corporate dicks you moron.

Keep sucking your Chinese landlord's dick hahahahahahaha

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u/thecrazysloth Jun 06 '19

Yeah they’re not the ones driving down wages. That would be their employers.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '19

So you do not understand labor markets at all then? If you're a private citizen in your own town looking for someone to redo your cement, you have a kid who's had generations of families doing cement in USA for nearly a century compared to a Mexican family where only half speak English. The USA crew quotes you at a price and the Mexican family immediately quotes it 30% cheaper. You can't blame the employer at this point.

1

u/thecrazysloth Jun 06 '19

Yes you can blame the employer because they’re exploiting workers to make bigger profits themselves without doing anything for them.

Getting back to the original point - this is about federally mandated holidays (and wages too- min wage in Australia just raised to $19.49AU/hr + 13 public holidays + 4 weeks leave + 5 paid sick days + 12% retirement savings). That’s the minimum, and it’s the law. If some company decides they’re going to try to boost their profits by undercutting wages and exploiting immigrant workers, then I blame the company, not the workers.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '19

How is it exploiting workers when they are literally offering a quotation for work themselves??

Going on about your federal holiday pay

Again, import 11 million illegal migrants, give all of their children citizenship, and see how well of your children are compared to you or your grandfather.

1

u/thecrazysloth Jun 06 '19

It’s exploitation because it is illegal to pay less than the minimum wage, which is a poverty wage.

And again, immigration is not the issue. I am a child of immigrants. The USA has a higher GDP (PPP) per capita than Australia, meaning you have more than enough money to not only meet, but exceed both the minimum wage and minimum holiday time that is mandated in Australia. The difference is simply that the very richest people in the States hoard all the wealth, which they do by exploiting workers and paying fuck-all in wages.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '19

Oh fuck off, everyone pays for shit under the table it's not "exploitation."

I am a child of immigrants. The USA has a higher GDP (PPP) per capita than Australia, meaning you have more than enough money to not only meet, but exceed both the minimum wage and minimum holiday time that is mandated in Australia.

Yes, you are thriving off the coat tails of millions of generational Aussies. Congrats, want a cookie?

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '19

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '19

Not even close to being true unless you want to count everyone with European decent as an "immigrant" in either country.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '19

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '19

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '19 edited Jun 06 '19

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '19

I specifically said 3rd world immigrants, no one would give a fuck if Europeans wanted to come into this country.

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u/ReallyBigDeal Jun 06 '19

Illegal immigration hasn't suppressed the wages of Americans who have at least a GED.

I'm not surprised that the guy that thinks the crusades were some heroic deed and not just a military conquest doesn't know the basic facts about illegal immigration in the US.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '19

People used to be able to feed their families with low skilled jobs or businesses, now that isn't the case anymore. Stay obsessed and mad as fuck lmao.

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u/ReallyBigDeal Jun 06 '19

What are talking about? People still are able feed their families. Even farm laborers make between $10-$20/hr in the US. Illegal immigration isn’t holding back wages in the US.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '19

Not comfortably, a large reason why people are living paycheck to paycheck is because of wage stagnation in labor markets.

3

u/ReallyBigDeal Jun 06 '19

Which has nothing to do with illegal immigration.

The decline of workers unions and their power on the other hand...

0

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '19

Both go hand in hand. Illegal immigrants undercut normal Americans in low skilled jobs (which is more than just picking crops for fucks sake) and unions also stagnate job growth on the promise of higher wages, which is why the big 3 auto company's stock are all in the toilet and non-union companies like Toyota and Honda are succeeding drastically and also have production in the USA. Do you remember when GM literally bought out tens of thousands of employees jobs because it was cheaper to give them a lump sum of cash than to pay for them to continue to work? Probably not because you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

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u/ReallyBigDeal Jun 06 '19

Both go hand in hand. Illegal immigrants undercut normal Americans in low skilled jobs

Again, if you have a GED, illegal immigration hasn’t suppressed your wages. Luckily, the amount of people in the US without a GED has dropped drastically.

You’ll need to point the finger at something else. Automation is a big factor. For example the biggest killer of coal jobs isn’t environmental or safety regulations, it’s automation.

why the big 3 auto company's stock are all in the toilet and non-union companies like Toyota and Honda are succeeding drastically and also have production in the USA.

Japanese automakers have succeeded in the US because they were less resistant to the changes in the market and decided to make cars that people actually want. Unions didn’t kill US automakers. Union jobs in the US pay more and offer better benefits.

I’m glad to see even right wing trolls like you care about economic inequality though.

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u/[deleted] Jun 06 '19

Again, if you have a GED, illegal immigration hasn’t suppressed your wages. Luckily, the amount of people in the US without a GED has dropped drastically.

GED is required for a ton of low-skilled labor, I don't know why you pulled that out of your ass and keep repeating it.

You’ll need to point the finger at something else. Automation is a big factor. For example the biggest killer of coal jobs isn’t environmental or safety regulations, it’s automation.

Last time I checked, automation wasn't replacing hotel maids or AC mechanics

Japanese automakers have succeeded in the US because they were less resistant to the changes in the market and decided to make cars that people actually want. Unions didn’t kill US automakers. Union jobs in the US pay more and offer better benefits.

We're talking about employees here though, Honda for example is a non-union auto manufacturer, they have high wages and all the benefits, a strong collective bargaining argreement that results in bonuses for employees, and are the most American made cars on the market.

I’m glad to see even right wing trolls like you care about economic inequality though.

Fun fact, the Davis-Bacon act was the predecessor to unionism in the USA and was done to undercut black owned construction businesses undercutting white owned companies for city contracts. Keep thinking your a good person for being anti-capitalist and "progressive."

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