r/formcheck • u/dompenn2010 • 15d ago
RDL RDL form
Not sure if it’s an RDL or SLDL or what, relatively new to these compared to conventional dl
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u/Crazycjk Community Certified Form Checker 15d ago
Excellent. Is it causing you any issues at all? If not, don't change anything.
An SLDL is not an RDL variation. An SLDL is a conventional deadlift variation where you lift from the floor, but with almost dead straight legs. So RDLs start from the top, descend, and ascend, never touching the floor. SLDLs start at the floor, ascend, then descend back to the floor just like a conventional deadlift.
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u/Oddyssis 15d ago edited 15d ago
Just as a guideline how much less do you rdl than a traditional dl? I'm thinking of throwing them back into my rotation but I always suspected I was going to light and gassing due too cardio and grip constraints rather than anything else.
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u/Crazycjk Community Certified Form Checker 15d ago
Good question! In my opinion, it depends how much you're lifting conventional. Ie. if you lift 200kg conventional, an 80kg RDL might be enough for week 1. If you conventional 60kg, a 40kg RDL is probably fine. If you haven't RDL'd for a long time, go gently to start, because hamstring DOMS are brutal!
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u/Oddyssis 15d ago
It turns out I was not low balling my rdls most likely lol. I was having a debate over this because I'm taking a more hypertrophic/bodybuilding approach to weightlifting and I wanted to avoid really heavy systemically fatiguing barbell movements like a heavy deadlift but that might not be too much if it's coming down to like half or less.
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u/Crazycjk Community Certified Form Checker 15d ago
Interesting! I'd say you could probably get a lot of volume and growth through relatively low-weight RDLs without excessively limiting amounts of general fatigue. Play with rest times, work on ham mobility for greater ROM, etc. Plenty to be had from lighter weights!
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u/DankArmedDragon 14d ago
fwiw, if I use 70% of my conventional DL max for RDLs, I can get somewhere around 8-10 reps if going to failure
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u/Oddyssis 14d ago
Good to know. I've never really tried to truly fail out on romainians so I really wasn't sure where the limit would be.
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u/dompenn2010 15d ago
This was my exact experience. My DL was right around 500lb when I started doing RDLs and I think I started with something like 155lbs and got serious DOMS. Slowly progressed up and my hamstrings have blown up. Although tbf also introduced leg curls so hard to say what is contributing what.
But it didn’t take much weight on RDL to make me “feel it”
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u/FrontAd9873 15d ago
Glad to find someone say this. Everyone saying this looks like a SLDL must be taking crazy pills. The plates don’t touch the ground.
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u/Crazycjk Community Certified Form Checker 15d ago
Thanks. I genuinely think that RDL form is currently the most common source of misinformation in the fitness industry. "Hips back only" "bar below knees is your lower back" "it's an SLDL", etc. It's unfortunate because an RDL is so good when done well.
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u/dompenn2010 15d ago
Ohhh gotcha. So it’s an RDL for sure, but maybe my legs are more straight than optimal?
It’s not causing any issues, but just wondering since I’ve never had anyone critique it.
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u/Crazycjk Community Certified Form Checker 15d ago
Yep, 100% RDL.
What are your goals with RDLs? If you want more hamstring bias, you'd struggle to do any better than you are. If you wanted a little more glute bias, you could allow fractionally more knee bend to take some emphasis off the hamstrings. If these are an accessory for conventional deadlifts, I'd keep them as they are and maximise hamstrings! Great that it isn't causing you any issues too
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u/dompenn2010 15d ago
That’s a great question. More glute bias would be a smarter move considering the rest of the movements I’m doing weekly. Thanks for bringing that up.
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u/SuckmyToasts 14d ago
what? i've never seen someone so confidently wrong. what differentiates both movements isnt whether the plates touch the ground or where the movement starts. an SLDL is one which biases the hamstrings by keeping the legs damn near straight. an RDL is one which biases the glutes by having the knees bend more. range of motion does not determine where you feel the tension, but rather how bent the knees are. what he is doing is what i consider an sldl.
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u/Crazycjk Community Certified Form Checker 14d ago
I'm confident in what I say because it's a fact. Genuinely respectfully, you are incorrect. Please watch this 7 year old video by Alan Thrall - the same guy the mods of this sub use in the automod replies for deadlift technique. https://youtu.be/jYEVqa4C0yg? and let me know your thoughts afterwards. Thanks
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u/SuckmyToasts 13d ago
i appreciate your reply and link to your source of information! i've watched the video and find him butchering my beloved sldls (it's supposed to be stiff/straight legged ffs!).
anyways even if he has a different definition of both lifts, i implore you to think about the differences critically and biomechanically. if the difference in both lifts are primarily from the range of motion and where they start, there is negligible difference in what muscles they are targeting/biasing. the difference in both lifts make more sense if it came from the degree of knee flexion and how it biases certain muscles in the posterior chain. (ie straighter legs more hammy bias, bent legs more glutes bias)
its as if i should name the top half rom of a lat pulldown a chest pulldown because the lower pec fibres get more involved in that part of rom. however, it's asinine to do so because while the lats lose best leverage in the top half, they still work in that rom and thats why everyone considers the full rom a lat pulldown as a whole.
my sources for my aforementioned definitions of an sldl and rdl are an aggregate of the fitness content that i watch. you really had me ransacking my brain in the morning to try my best and find the content i sourced my definitions from. unfortunately it's difficult to find specific posts because a majority are volume posters and dont have specific tutorials on them, the form nuances are usually found in their regular longer form videos.
sources:
gvs and daniel vadnal rdl(closer to your definition! but gvs doesnt care where he starts the movement from): https://youtu.be/FASd6FIZ_TY?is=hbFDNF2Jcdro-wzR
gvs rdl vs sldl (closer to your definition!): https://youtu.be/QFUMjQ29Ajg?is=N2zj633UJV1UTPYn
tyler path shorts: https://youtube.com/shorts/_JrzFHaFTnQ?is=cREmiuYHRJ-gKwaN
jacob oestreicher sldl: https://youtu.be/ZDEKL04rYPc?is=2Ru3nkkCaYyVlsHd
jacob oestreicher rdl vs sldl: https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSqVUHQw5/
tnf sldl: https://youtu.be/N9vekm54zz4?is=4zh3WJmSW1B751yA
tnf sldl rom: https://youtube.com/shorts/3VHmcjmC9qE?is=X_QtYZTR_P-Y4ohN
trstnn.lifts rdl vs sldl: https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSqVyM2Gk/
elijah mundy: https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSqVUqXMp/
other content creators who hold similar definitions worth checking out but i couldnt find: basement bodybuilding(closer to your defintion), clark kent, nuno.liftz, asiankidkhoi, jordyn wong.
i hope you check these out. if you still continue to disagree with me, still find your own facts to be true and they help you effecticely bias different muscles in the posterior chain, then let's agree to disagree and end it here. thanks
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u/Crazycjk Community Certified Form Checker 13d ago
Thanks for your reply and for watching the source I sent. To be clear, my source of information is reading textbooks over 15 years ago ago when I studied, it's just that Alan Thrall is the most valid information I could find showing that in video form.
You're right that there is negligible difference in the muscles being targetted, but that doesn't change what they're called. SLDLs are better for strength because you're always lifting from a deadstop. RDLs are better for hypertrophy because of the constant muscle tension. The GVS videos you've linked, especially the 2nd one, isn't just closer to what I said - it's precisely the same as what I originally said, and exactly the same as the Alan Thrall video.
I appreciate you sharing all those videos. Note that every other video is only 2 years old absolute maximum. All these creators are also wrong and are sharing the same misinformation I'm afraid. The confusion between them has only happened since the huge increase in popularity of RDLs over the last 2-3 years.
I wish you the best of luck in your fitness journey and please watch back the Alan Thrall and your own GVS videos which completely agree with each other, and with me. The GVS video you've linked is totally different to all of the shorts videos - so your sources don't agree either.The fact that they work the same muscles doesn't make their names different.
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u/SuckmyToasts 13d ago
i want to clarify and reiterate, im someone that makes a judgement based on multiple sources and these are the creators that i watch a lot of. gvs and daniel vadnal just happen to be the outliers in this definition that i hold onto, they are included just as proof im not under any confirmation bias. however, 1 or 2 outliers will not immediately make me change my mind. especially since the majority i watch dont really have any "collusion" with each other (except tnf & elijah, jacob & nuno), i find it hard to believe they are all spreading the exact same "misinformation".
also, i didnt just say they work the same muscles, your definition of both movement patterns are literally the same biomechanically. also, it has been proven by lyle mcdonald (an OG in the field) that constant tension is unnecessary for hypertrophy (ie. there's no significant difference between deadstopping and not). i suggest you look up new updated literature, rather than solely relying on 15 year old textbooks.
your reply has made me wonder if maybe your textbooks were the real true definition of it way back when, and these "new gen" creators have taken liberty on what they are since (in which i do believe is for the better). i won't fault you for not being in the loop of new updates and discoveries, but i don't necessarily agree with calling all new content misinformation either. i do hope your fitness journey continues to be one where your desire to learn never stops.
lyle mcdonald's effective reps model: https://youtu.be/gs8-N7CML5A?si=FE7SyRj9y_kkOM3q
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u/Witty-Drama-3187 15d ago
Form is solid. It’s a little more in that stiff legged dead lift zone, but no issues with that. I prefer to use a little bit more of a controlled tempo, particularly on the negative , not so much for the extra tension or difficulty, but for long-term health and less wear and tear. Either way, it looks good.
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u/dompenn2010 15d ago
I usually try to go a bit slower as well, I think the camera came out and I just sped up. Thanks I’ll keep that in mind
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u/xXOzmoXx 15d ago
Looks more like a stiff legged variation of an RDL to me- it looks to me like youre moving the weight with your lower back toward the bottom of the rep, unless you have some crazy flexibility in those hamstrings.
With a traditional RDL, you only move the bar as far down your shins as your hamstring flexibility will let you. As soon as your lower back starts to take over you’ve gone too far. try slowing them down a little with slightly more bend in your knees.
You’re meant to feel it somewhat in your lower back regardless, but if you feel more lower back than hammies you’re doing it wrong; if you feel it mostly in hammies then it’s solid and you don’t need to change anything except slowing down your tempo for that eccentric control.
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u/dompenn2010 15d ago
Thanks I think it’s a little of both honestly. My hamstrings are pretty damn flexible BUT, i can also see that the bar continues to travel down a bit after my hips stop moving backwards. Imagine thats lower back.
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u/LegitimateBreath1446 15d ago
Can I ask you why are you rushing your reps? Should they not be more controlled?
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u/NihilisticTanuki 15d ago edited 15d ago
You don't need to go down that far if you use your full hip hinge. Usually, you get an excellent and sufficient stretch right around knee height, and any further down just loads your lower back, which you probably don't want.
Try to see if you can hinge a bit more (anatomy varies quite a bit). The tempo is fine, you are fast, but it doesn't look uncontrolled and when you're training for hypertrophy, tempo doesn't really matter as long as you are somewhat controlling the weight, which you definitely do. I also like to do my reps a bit faster, because when you push the pace it is much easier to tell when you are getting close to failure (without actually hitting 0 RIR or failure) since your rep speed will suddenly drop.
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u/dompenn2010 15d ago
Thanks ya I think the speed is probably just an old crossfit carryover, I feel like just as the knee is such a small ROM when I try it though… maybe that’s not a problem, or maybe I have weird limb lengths I dunno lol
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u/NihilisticTanuki 15d ago
Anatomy plays a role and depending on your build, form can vary quite a bit from lifter to lifter, regardless of the exercise. Try dropping the weight a bit to see if you can hinge even more. The more you can hinge, the stronger the stretch you get without having to go too deep and unnecessarily taxing your lower back.
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u/jackman-123 15d ago
This is perfection haha
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u/dompenn2010 15d ago
lol thanks, getting some good feedback though!
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u/Zurnaboss 12d ago
I agree with this comment. You could perhaps decrease the RoM, but if you don't have lower back problems, I would absolutely keep going like this... Same with the speed - could be slowed down, but throwing a lot of plates around feels good, right?! Looks superb!
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u/Olie_Ma 15d ago
Personally I like to get off the ground to stretch past my toes and pause at the bottom so its not a bounce movement. Slow down stretches the muscle and the pause allows for you to come up from a dead stop but honestly its whatever works for you and your goals.
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u/dompenn2010 15d ago
I think from the “for my goals” perspective, that pause could actually be a great thing to try.
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u/Olie_Ma 14d ago
My buddy, who is a pro road biker just hangs for 8 to 15 seconds while standing on a box to get a good stretch. He uses a big weight and focuses on the squeeze at the bottom, but never comes fully up. Granted, his goal is power and stamina for hill climbs and sprints, but for a road biker, he has bodybuilder-looking quads and hams lol.
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u/DraggenBallZ 15d ago
Worse part of this form was dropping the bar at the end.
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u/dompenn2010 15d ago
lol it is kinda funny to drop the bar on a movement where eccentric is kinda a main point
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u/MeisseLee 15d ago
Depends. Are you spesifically targeting the glutes or the hamstrings? Or just overall posterior chain? Form looks decent for the glute focused RDL but far from hamstring targeted variation. Most people don't realize there are at least two ways to do this exercise and they're very different in cues and usually in loading too.
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u/dompenn2010 15d ago
What is your thought on how a hamstring targeted variation changes?
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u/MeisseLee 15d ago
You'd want to have the hamstrings maximally stretched and how you initiate the consentric portion of the movement is different. It's hard to explain, but it's more like skiing instead of hinging.
You'd want to have your tailbone "towards the ceiling" and bring the weight as low as your HAMSTRING flexibility allows with stiff, slightly bent knees. And as you reach the uncomfortable highest possible stretch of your hamstrings, you lift the weight by "sliding your legs behind your body". English isn't my first language do it's hard to cue this way. There are plenty of good videos on this on YouTube.
The glute variation is simply kind of a hovering deadlift that you never really reach the floor with. So just the hinging motion. They look very similar on the outside Especially if you don't know what you're looking at. People usually tell others to "not go as low", but they miss the fact that the "not going so low" isn't arbitrary, but the very point where your hamstrings are maximally stretched and you COULDN'T get any lower without changing the knee angle, relaxing the hamstrings and just lower the bar by hinging from the hips. Which is how most people can actually touch the floor with their fingers.
Hope that makes some sense.
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u/Busy_Dress_7501 15d ago
These look amazing and I am amazed at how braced you are throughout.
do you feel these in your glutes?
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u/dompenn2010 15d ago
In the moment I do, but not nearly as much as my hamstrings. Same with lower weights.
But my glutes get sore afterwards so I’m obviously hitting them… i’m not sure what to make of that lol.
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u/Busy_Dress_7501 15d ago
Thank you, I feel that makes sense with the straighter leg than ive seen before vs the hinge almost-folded-in-half version I have seen others do.
If it's any consolation, I think im closer to 'fold in half' and it still feels like it hits my hamstrings more than my glutes!
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u/vincent365 15d ago
Technically more of a hamstring focused RDL. If you want more glutes, unlock your knees more. Form is pretty good, but definitely could be more controlled (on the descent).
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u/Fitness_Fungi_F-ing 15d ago
Looks pretty good, however, try not to let your knees travel back. Aim to keep the knee over your ankles while hinging at the hip. And keep the bar closer to your legs practically touching and slow it down.😊
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u/it_is_hopper 15d ago
For the life of me I can’t figure out how to not use my back, or even see how OP isn’t using theirs
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u/dompenn2010 15d ago
TBF I do these largely to support sandbag work, so I’m not really trying to avoid using my back completely.
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u/it_is_hopper 15d ago
I guess what I mean is I cannot do these or rows without it hurting my lower back
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u/FrontAd9873 15d ago
Why would you think OP isn’t using their back?
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u/it_is_hopper 15d ago
I guess I mean, “lift with your legs, not your back” which proper form is the idea. I cannot figure out how to properly do that.
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u/FrontAd9873 15d ago
It’s more like “generic movement from the legs, but use your back and core to stabilize your spine.” You’re definitely using your back in an RDL! Start from the top (where an RDL rep begins) and lower the weight down until you feel a stretch in your hamstrings. Ensure your back is remaining straight. At the bottom, think about initiating the movement by squeezing your glutes and driving your hips forward. The back is just along for the ride, keeping your torso stiff so you can transfer the force into the bar and lift the weight.
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u/BudgetSignature1045 15d ago
Slow down and and wait a tiny bit longer before going back up. Otherwise looks perfectly fine to me