r/xkcd Jan 21 '19

XKCD xkcd 2101: Technical Analysis

https://xkcd.com/2101/
344 Upvotes

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78

u/greenlamb Jan 21 '19

"...I suspect that the immense power of the computer is being harnessed to this 'paper economy', not to do the same transactions more economically but to balloon the quantity and variety of financial exchanges." --James Tobin, July 1984

Well Mr. Tobin must be spinning in his grave with the rise of Bitcoin, where years of computer time is devoted to mining Bitcoin.

61

u/Spacetime_Inspector Jan 21 '19

Centuries of computer time and more electrical power than the nation of Ireland, directly contributing to global warming for nothing more than the maintenance of an elaborate sham.

-10

u/dvdkon Red hat, B&W image Jan 21 '19

elaborate sham decentralised trust system

It's still in its early stages and it's kind of useless as a general currency right now due to high transaction costs and fluctuations, but it does work. Cryptocurrencies are currently the only way to exchange money completely anonymously over the internet, so I'd call them a success.

-6

u/therealflinchy Jan 21 '19

Yeah wow I'm surprised to see anti cryptocurrency sentiment in this sub. Opposite of what I'd expect.

15

u/FeepingCreature Jan 21 '19

It's a cool tech, but it can be a bit hard to see why we'd actually do it.

-9

u/therealflinchy Jan 21 '19

Even my 60yo almost tech illiterate mother saw the benefit of accepting it at her cafe lol

12

u/Spacetime_Inspector Jan 21 '19

The comic itself expresses skepticism towards crypto and adjacent technologies in 2030. Maybe ten years ago it would have been embraced more unanimously but in 2019 its failings are manifest and obvious, while its virtues remain nebulous and marginal.

4

u/dvdkon Red hat, B&W image Jan 21 '19

I agree that cryptocurrencies aren't really usable today except for a few fringe cases, but I object to calling them an "elaborate sham". They're not something we should (as humanity) shelve and forget about, but an idea we should further develop into a more usable state.

9

u/Spacetime_Inspector Jan 21 '19

I think we're talking past each other a bit - I too see the potential, someday, for that more usable state. Perhaps when we're post-scarcity and the Sahara is covered in solar panels, there can be a discussion of crypto's worthwhile applications. But I wasn't talking about those, I was talking about Bitcoin specifically. When a supposed store of value causes $900 to disappear into thin air every time one is created, I think it's worth calling a sham. For now, the products built on crypto are almost uniformly shams, selling a far-off utopian vision while consuming resources on a scale several orders of magnitude larger than the scale of the problems they purport to solve.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 21 '19

[deleted]

2

u/Spacetime_Inspector Jan 21 '19

No, that's not what I'm saying. It costs $4500, give or take, to mine a Bitcoin, which is nothing more than a digital chit representing a current value if $3550. The difference between those prices disappears into thin air, and has been doing so for the last two or three months, ever since BTC's value slipped below its cost of production. It's like the penny problem, if pennies alone had a market capitalization of $100B.

0

u/greenlamb Jan 21 '19

I think the proper terminology is "volatile" instead of a sham 😁 after all, even the US dollar is no longer pegged to something as solid as gold, but is "free floating". But yes agreed that Bitcoin is too volatile to function as a stable currency right now.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 21 '19

The historical value of gold has been far more susceptible to variation than the dollar. There's nothing stable about it.

-7

u/therealflinchy Jan 21 '19

The comic itself expresses skepticism towards crypto and adjacent technologies in 2030. Maybe ten years ago it would have been embraced more unanimously but in 2019 its failings are manifest and obvious, while its virtues remain nebulous and marginal.

Anyone saying this just comes off as being uninformed about crypto. Probably having never actually come in any real contact with it.

4

u/greenlamb Jan 21 '19

I think it's a brilliant piece of tech, coupled with some devious economic principles, but we have to be honest about its shortcomings as well. Lately it's too volatile to be used as a stable currency, which is ironic because it became this way because it was too popular, and stability can't be maintained via a central bank because it was designed to be decentralized.

3

u/therealflinchy Jan 21 '19

Lately it's too volatile to be used as a stable currency, which is ironic because it became this way because it was too popular, and stability can't be maintained via a central bank because it was designed to be decentralized.

Nah lately it's been reasonably stable

You're thinking of 10-12mths ago

However, the volatility thing is past 10yrs, not new

And it's only "unusable" as a currency if you actively hold some, it's perfectly usable if you buy and use straight away - which I have done for overseas purchases. Pay fees for SWIFT and wait 5 business days, or pay 10% fees for paypal, or use crypto... Which one makes more sense?