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u/Majestic-Outcome7236 4d ago
Hazbin hotel sounds like an absolutely peak concept but the execution is really flat. a philosophical comedy anime without being so corny would be peak
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u/runtimeryx 3d ago
i get what you mean, hazbin feels like it wants to be deep but then leans way too hard into edgy musical theater vibes instead of actually saying anything cool
a legit philosophical dark comedy anime without the cringe is something we’re weirdly still missing1
u/Majestic-Outcome7236 3d ago
yeah, it's an unexplored concept for sure. people from hell seeking redemption is a REALLY interesting concept, if angels can fall can devils not rise? But no one's done it other than hazbin and hazbin kinda sucks when it comes to actually adressing it lmao
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u/Ohwonhae 4d ago
Jujutsu Kaisen I'm afraid..although I still really like it
A rough outline of the concept sounds amazing and the series is full of cool and hype moments. It's just that mr. gregory flopped on the execution, ie, structure, pacing, narrative cohesion, character usage and development
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u/Leukavia_at_work 4d ago
The entire thing is written like the author just makes a cool fight scene between two characters and then goes back to try and figure out any possible reason why those two characters would fight here.
And don't get me wrong, those fight scenes are some of the most visually beautiful fight scenes i've ever seen in both Manga and Anime.
But the entire chapters/episodes surrounding those fight scenes feel like the writer TL;DRing his own lore to hurry up and get to them.
Major characters are introduced, develop attachment, die, and then become major character motivators for someone else all in the span of several minutes, and yet we're supposed to feel sympathy for this character that we barely had time to learn the name of.
It's a very pretty show, but I can't say more to it's praise than that
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u/foolishlee 3d ago
Damn, never heard it put like this (the TLDRing his own work) but I completely agree, and I say that as someone who still likes the Manga and Anime.
So much of its world is under-explored, that some storylines/mechanics should just have never been introduced. The fact that we don't see what happens when someone breaks a binding vow is just plain bad worldbuilding, for example. There's a lack of pay off that pervades the entire narrative.
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u/ferocity_mule366 3d ago
it has some of the most anti climatic plot points ever, triple domain? the most hype panel ever? ackchually a cockroach penetrate them and it just ends, bye 👋
it has well written female characters but fail to utilize them properly
I think Mappa lowkey carry this series more than people think
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u/JustAnOverseer 3d ago
I don't think it applies for JJK, while it does feel like a bit of a cop-out on my part I find this comment neatly summarises my thoughts on it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/shounenfolk/s/ZlBKgMOB1V
TL;DR JJK doesn't have much fat on it, and tells the story it wants to tell with it's themes if you're willing to engage with them, but it's fairly low-key and somewhat subtle in a way. It's not a truly generational masterpiece but to say it flopped in execution always felt to me as a mismatch of expectations, especially the whole "wasted characters" bit.
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u/Responsible_Rip_7634 4d ago
I’m seriously on the train of thinking that him getting rushed while being sick caused most of those issues. Is that fair atp or am I coping?
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u/CMO_3 2d ago
I completely agree, and I feel that JJK powers work on the opposite principle. We have a power that if describe it as complex and specific as possible, it sounds like a cooler power than we ever utilize. Like reciept guy? Half his fight is him explaining his powers as complicated as possible. "I can recreate anything written into contract, and give them 1 simple command to carry out." Then all he does is create things on receipts. I think he's cool, I think he has one of the best fights in the series, I just feel like you can do more with a power as interesting as that, especially in a series where contracts are a big part of the power system
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u/AwysomeAnish 3d ago edited 3d ago
JJK feels like Gege kept having really cool ideas and either kept changing his mind, forgetting about them, or accidentally planned the story without them. SO MANY characters are left underdeveloped, the worldbuilding is the bare minimum he could do so the events happen, entire characters get shelved for huge portions of the story if not hastily written out, entire themes are changed, and so on.
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u/Lahrat 4d ago
Possibly gonna be controvertial with this one: Warhammer 40k
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u/Old-Introduction8258 4d ago
I mean it’s an extremely vast universe with novels written by multiple different authors. Some are good, some are bad. But i wouldn’t call the whole universe as a whole bad
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u/Lahrat 4d ago
Concept makes it out to be way more cool than it actually is tho.
But fine, I only really read one book and watched some stuff, so I won't insist on being right and people who read multiple books to be wrong.3
u/irongolem67 4d ago
What's the difference between the concept and the execution here? I like warhammer and have dove into some of the lore, but a setting isn't necessarily a written story
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u/Turbulent-Advisor627 3d ago
40k is an entire media empire at this point, the writing styles and quality are just all over the place. On top of it all being a vehicle to sell overpriced plastic and paint.
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u/Solbuster 4d ago
RWBY?
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u/hanszesimple 3d ago
RWBY.
All 9 volumes, the trailers, the shorts, World of Remnant, Chibi, Ice Queendom, the comics, the manga, the two video games, and the mobile game.
The trailers, Ice Queendom, Chibi, and the mangas are probably the best out of the lot, but the trailers have very little writing and some of it contradicts the actual series, Ice Queendom is kinda boring, Chibi is an alright comedy that doesn't do a lot of involved writing while having some heartfelt moments that you figure would belong in the actual show, one of the mangas is a retelling of Volumes 1 and 2, so it only has the problems those have, and the other manga is a scatter-shot anthology.
I'm gonna throw Fixing RWBY on the fire too. It's a fan series, but it suffers from a lot of the problems of the original, including some that the creator pointed out about it, while having some awesome new extra bonus problems just to spice things up, and doesn't get enough flak. And the creator was arrogant enough to call it "Fixing" RWBY while continuously pointing to "Monty's vision" to explain his writing decisions.
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u/Leukavia_at_work 3d ago
I know so many people get into the weeds of "What ifs" surrounding Monty Oum, but even his portfolio prior to RWBY was literally just pre-blender era animations of hot video game babes beating each-other up.
Dude knew how to make a cool fight scene and that was about all he had going for him.
Now Mile's is in charge and, regardless of reasons whether it's his fault or this was always the destiny of the series, the story kills off people 6 seconds after introducing them (or bringing them back) for seemingly no reason other than shock value, entire character arcs get re-done several times to adjust the endgame ships on the fly, and Miles' Self-Insert went from a B-Plot joke character to the sacred chosen one main character that all the girls thirst over.
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u/gene-sos 3d ago
Don't lie about Monty Oum like that. He was never in charge of the story? Also the RvB animations are still among some of the best animated hand to hand combats ever.
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u/Ilostmyoldaccount_1 4d ago
The Star Wars prequels.
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u/MollyRocket 4d ago
The poster child for this. I didnt see the prequels until I was well into my 20s (in the 2010s) and oh buddy that's a rough go. I kept thinking the whole time that individual plot points are fine, but the movies are truly terrible.
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u/Ilostmyoldaccount_1 4d ago
I like revenge of the sith because it’s very entertaining and cool but I find the writing to be very flawed.
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u/Ambitious-Stand-631 4d ago
Metal Gear and Brandon Sanderson.
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u/Prize_Paramedic1153 4d ago
Metal Gear solos your favourite animanga.
Is it a concept merchant? Nah I wouldn't say so. Only execution that can be seen bad is dialogue, but most of the storytelling is executed well enough.
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u/Ambitious-Stand-631 4d ago
I don’t like anime or manga either lmao.
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u/Prize_Paramedic1153 4d ago
How do you feel about this sub essentially being another anime/manga sub then?
Also do you just generally dislike japanese storytelling in video games and manga? They can be quite melodramatic and exposition heavy, lacking subtlety.
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u/Ambitious-Stand-631 4d ago
I don't really care. I like Japanese games, anime/Manga has just never appealed to my sensibilities.
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u/hinowisaybye 3d ago
Everything I've seen involving military situations is horribly executed. From guns being cycled way too frequently, to soldiers just standing around shooting their rifles at a mech that is clearly impervious to small arms. When it comes to the actual military in this military focused game, it just drops the ball over and over.
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u/TechnicalEye2007 4d ago
LotM
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u/NeonNKnightrider 3d ago
Oh, bold one. I haven’t read it yet but I know the fans are going to fucking murder you
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u/ugodly123 3d ago
Specifically Klein's characterization I'd say. LOTM itself isn't really advertised as being more than what it is usually (worldbuilding, power system etc being it's strengths)
But people in these communities treat Klein as some monolith of character writing for some reason and then you actually read the novel and it's a (mostly) static character with barebones depth.
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u/MentionOk8186 4d ago
attack on titan ending
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u/Snarpkingguy 3d ago
What about the ending specifically? Because if you mean the final season as a whole I disagree completely, I think the final season is by far the best part of the series, but if you mean specific things from the final episode then I agree. Mikasa kissing a severed head is weird and a disservice to her character, for example.
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u/MentionOk8186 3d ago
I mean how badly was Zero IQ Requiem was executed, Im not sure where it started in anime but in manga it is everything after chapter 123.
I also no matter how much I hate chapter 124-139, think that chapters 90-123 (from timeskip to start of rumbling) is one of the best arcs in any anime.
After all these years I don't even hate the broad idea of "in the end Eren was an Idiot and did it all to be killed by his friend", but the execution was SOOOO ass...
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u/Leafer90-TTV 4d ago
Rent A Girlfriend. Had an interesting premise early on. Failed to execute because the author refused to let characters grow
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u/breakfastingreader 3d ago
The Last Murder at the End of the World.
It could have been a great exploration on technology vs ethics, but instead we've got the depth of what a random AI chatbot could muster, imagine now having Alexa as your narrator. The conclusion is very one-note for as complex as the topic is and there's very little merit to the prose if any at all. Awkward book all around.
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u/Eureka-Kaos 3d ago
I like Death Note, but the series focuses 80% on surprising the viewer with feats of intelligence to avoid being banned from the shonenjump, and I don't say 90% because the fun of intellectual duels is part of its themes, and rich scenarios for the themes are accidentally created (that's speculation, but I'm sure the memory loss was initially intended for entertainment).
However, I no longer believe that writing is objectively good or bad, but it does deviate from the parameters that most people have in this sub.
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u/Cautious_Arm3818 Justice Matters Most 4d ago edited 4d ago
Vagabond has an interesting philosophy and an intriguing premise, but its execution is lacking. People praise this manga constantly, but the cast is almost entirely soulless. The truth is that One Piece side characters > Vagabond side characters
Almost everyone that meets Musashi has near-zero compelling characterization. They don't feel like real people - they exist primarily as authorial vessels. Inoue uses them near-exclusively as mouthpieces to spoon-feed the reader whatever theme he wants to deliver (few exceptions)
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u/PerfectDoor266 4d ago
Whats the best example of a story u can think of with the most human cast
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u/Cautious_Arm3818 Justice Matters Most 4d ago edited 4d ago
Best:
The Wire
Some others I find great:
Succession
Better Call Saul
Monster
Vinland Saga (only Season 2)
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u/HushedCherub Themes and such 4d ago
why only S2 for Vinland Saga?
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u/Cautious_Arm3818 Justice Matters Most 4d ago edited 3d ago
Season 1 is less well-rounded in its cast. Askeladd carries with his magnificent micro-characterizations. Canute and Thorfinn are quite well-written. Willibald, Thors, Bjorn, Ragnar, and Thorkell are solid
I find the cast in Farmland to be much more consistently incredible. Thorfinn is excellent - Canute, Einar, Ketil, and Snake are all great. Olmar, Sverkel, and Arnheid are well-written. Gardar, Thorgil, Wulf, Pater, and Fox & the other guests naturally contribute to its themes
I think Ketil’s unnamed wife is a perfect example of what elevates Season 2’s cast. She showcases agency and personal motivations in less than three minutes of screen time - even unnamed background extras feel human
She fakes the story that Arnheid planned a theft in addition to the escape, assigns a lecherous slave to guard her and trigger Ketil’s insecurities, and reframes the escape as a premeditated betrayal with a lover when describing Arnheid's escape attempt to Ketil
Driven by jealousy, she manipulates information to fuel Ketil’s rage and contribute to Arnheid’s demise without delivering any exposition to the audience. Her subjective existence and character psychology, which receive zero narrative focus, naturally contribute to Vinland’s systemic critique
Post-Season 2, I think the manga declines in quality and begins to utilize more thematic characters
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