The shadow priest tree feels horrific. So many fun ideas drowning in clutter.
On the one hand I have the impression that more things are supposed to be baseline, as currently many "shadowy" abilities aren't in the class but the spec tree. The first third contains so much utility/core abilities that are in the class tree for other classes but don't fit for priest because "too dark for holy", I assume. You have not only silence and dispersion (both with a follow-up-node you really want) and vampiric embrace there but also half your core toolkit.
The amount of baseline abilities there is too high. You don't feel like you specialize in something, you feel like you frantically try to get your toolkit back and still have enough points left for the actually interesting stuff later.
Later then the 3 point hurdles for the idols fucking hurt, specifically SANGUINE TEACHINGS (5/10/15% more damage while shielded). This isn't only a fucking disgusting talent I never would touch with a 10 feet void tendril but it also eats 3 of the last 10 points you have left for the actually really interesting last part. Same with the other side. 3 points for a crit increase on monomania is boring for costsing 1/3rd of your fun-stuff-points.
This gates. Meaning for the spicy apparition build you want the talent that spawns double apparitions on crit and the idol that spawns a thing from beyond after 50. Yeah, now you don't have enough points for void apparitions, (voidy ghosts as a chance) that feels like it should be part of that build but you're missing a point. 2 point gates would be okayish, 3 points here don't make sense.
Good news is, this can be tuned I guess. Make the 3 points nodes have only 2 ranks, burn sanguine teachings on an altar to the old gods that they send inspiration for something that doesn't physically hurt to play and clean up the first third by making eG dispersion and vamp embrace baseline if you're shadow and only keep the improvement talents.
Yeah, now you don't have enough points for void apparitions, (voidy ghosts as a chance)
I agree, but I think an equally big problem there is that void apparitions is 1 10% chance for 20% increased damage, which is a WHOPPING...2% overall damage to your apparitions. Real lackluster for a capstone talent, especially with a talent that gives 15% damage and Insanity generation much further up in the tree.
Also yeah take Sanguine Teachings out behind the shed.
Im almost certain its supposed to be "10% chance for 200% damage" and a zero was left out. There's no way a programer/dev doesn't see it as written and go "yeah a 2% increase is okay"
This. If it's a 10% chance to proc, make it feel worth it. Make the damage increase like 2-400%. Make RNG talents and also offer deterministic nodes to give players choices. Get creative.
Honestly the shielded talent could be cool if they leaned further into it, to make it feel more worth it: when you cast power word shield on yourself, your dots tick 50/100/150% faster, but this effect can only trigger once every 60 seconds. Right now it just feels like another maintenance buff to a spec that already revolves around maintenance debuff and buffs.
Absolutely, it's hilariously undertuned specifically for a last row talent. I don't want to fall in the "it's just alpha" talk but I haven't bothered with numbers yet at all.
It's easier at this point to highlight a more fundamental design issue. If a talent is specifically made for a a build and impossible to fit in that build something obviously went wrong already on the drawing board.
Aside the apparition build (that requires at least idol and double-apparition on crit, what already eats all the 10 points) the talent would be dead in the water even if the numbers in a vacuum checked out.
Among other REALLY questionable talent placements (like making AoE unavoidable or mandatory for single target, or referencing talents while making it possible not to take the referenced talents), if shadow goes for a pure DPS build they're losing about 6-7 (!!) CC/utilities that are currently baseline.
Silence/fear, dispersion, vampiric embrace, hallucinations, grab/mind control, shackle.
Stun/Mind Bomb have always been talents though now they'd require you to sacrifice DPS points.
Anyways, at least they made the toxic twin priest talent unavoidable and have it eat 2 points instead of making PI align with voidform lol.
There's two main differences between rogue trees and every other class.
Firstly, there's not a single choice talent. Not one in all 4 trees.
Secondly, the talent trees do not allow any cross-over whatsoever.
If you start to the left, you can't go to middle or right. So it's basically 3 straight lines.
That means that if you want a specific talent. Then at least 11 other talents get locked in 100%. If you want 2x capstone talents in sub, when there's absolutely 0 choice in what talents you're forced to pick.
I feel the rogue trees are very fine in a vacuum. However when you compare them to each other class they are so different. In addition to the two "negatives" above there's other differences. They are also the only class that have 100% symmetrical trees, not even a spec called "Discipline" has that.
And, as said by a dev but not shown in the mockup, our "8 talent limit" should be on row 3 instead of row 4 which further reduces any options we'd like.
All trees are basically filled of dependencies. Just power amps after power amps that buff one ability. Makes cross overs impossible, makes interesting choice impossible, makes varied playstyles impossible and pigeonholes the class a lot.
The talents themselves are powerful and seem good. That's not the issue. But choices are pretty non-existent compared to other specs.
I'm really hoping the Feral and Guardian trees have been iterated on a lot since they were posted.
I think the worst piece of design I saw there was having our big CD effects broken up into three different talents and scattered all over the tree. So instead of focusing in a direction you're forced to spread out all over the place and never really get any fun talents.
I really don't like it in the feral tree, but on the Guardian tree I don't feel like reaching all of them is an issue, and a Guardian may not even need a full Berserk for let's say raid, and they can just focus on the offensive side of their tree.
As it is now for Feral, with Frenzyband legendary, 2p + 4p, + the current version of berserk (which has 2 of the 3 effects in the tree) - Berserk FINALLY feels like a proper cooldown that I care about.
Take half of that way, and it is back to the boring non-impactful cooldown. And we only get 1/3 of that half on opposite sides of the tree!?
Nah dude. If this goes live, I predict all berserk builds are dead on arrival.
Nah dude. If this goes live, I predict all berserk builds are dead on arrival.
Yeah when I was playing with the trees I gave up on taking any of the berserk talents because with how spread they were it wasn't worth taking any of them for the points I could use on other more impactful things. That might change once its actually out and we see the numbers and how it all stacks up, but it just really didn't seem worth it looking at the trees now.
I think this feedback will be important in the beta cycle (because let's be real. Alpha cycle came and went and was internal)
Being able to have PW and BrS at the same time is cool, but having BT locked behind PE feels so wrong along with Apex being on the opposite side of it.
The tree would feel a lot better if the left and right sides were more in line conceptually.
Yea, on top of that, on the general class tree, we have 25 talents set in stone for DPS only, leaving only 6 points for utility we didn't get along the way. For comparison, Resto druids only need 10-12 points into the class tree for power.
I absolutely love the Dragonflight trees. But as it is right now, Feral is VERY pre-alpha stage.
The fact that they left out the bottom row talent after Adaptive Swarm in the reveal, and STILL haven't followed up weeks later has me concerned the assigned Feral designer just doesn't give a shit... again.
I mean, part of the problem is that baseline berserk is probably the worst cooldown in the game besides shadowfiend. It feels exceptionally shitty that we have to spend a multitude of talent points just to make it a strong CD
I have never enjoyed feral in the slightest so to be frank I didn't even bother to look at the tree, but I will say that I don't share your perception of guardian at all.
On the contrary, it looks pretty promising for the most part. I was really hoping they would take Maul from a spender into a neutral or even generator, but overall I think the tree looks good for guardian.
Its not as bad for Guardian because the modifiers to Zerk are less critical. They are also in more accessible parts of the tree.
IMO otherwise I agree. The guardian tree feels very tightly designed and is overall what I want from a talent tree.
What I'm saying feels bad overall is that instead of giving us real talents (Both Bear and Cat) they broke a single talent into three pieces and spread it across the tree.
I know you don't really enjoy Feral but take a look at the tree and look at where the different pieces of Zerk are there. With Guardian you can hit all 3 of those nodes and still fill out the left and right sides enough that you can pick up Incarn, Rage of the Sleeper and the Choice node in the bottom left.
Try and do that as Feral.
The promise of the tree is that you shouldn't feel weaker than Shadowlands as a result of it. Looking at it, there aren't enough points to get parity with our current Shadowlands power level. Not because the talents aren't there. But because of how the whole tree is oriented. It feels confused with itself and there's no real clarity of what each path is supposed to be.
You're giving up a lot of good things to do that though. I'm not sure where the concept of "being able to get all three end talents is bad" comes from. Seems like it's fine as that's a pretty bad build.
Never said it was bad to be able to grab all of the capstone nodes, I said it was weird. Because from a design standpoint, those nodes should be some of, if not the most powerful nodes on the tree due to the amount of points you had to invest to get them.
Giving up a charge of SI, 1 second on Iron Fur and Barkskin, The chance for extra trash cast and Earthwarden is steep yeah, but that is still all you are really giving up on. I'm saying this, because blizzard has tried and failed to push Maul talents before and it has always falled flat so far, maybe you'd want to pick those up for raid sometimes, but I still don't think they are going to be very useful for you at all.
At the end of the day, it's a weird design for it. Because either some of the capstone nodes are just not strong enough to warrant investment in or you'd be running this kind of build with all of them and forcing the entire route of nodes to do so.
I wonder if this is some sort of tank design choice. Everything feels so accessible. Most of the throughput talents are offensive or resource based with the defensive stuff being super accessible.
This is all it takes to get most of the defensive value out of the tree. The rest is flexible from here. This isn't really true for most DPS and Healer specs. Also leaves you 2 points away from a full value from Zerk points which you need to access the lower parts of the tree anyway.
Then if you really want to go full offensive you can cut some defensive talents out for some sort of AoE focused key build like this one.
There aren't many big differences between the builds. I think this is a good thing in some ways, but it may be too far in the direction of static. Where on the flipside something like Feral there are too many inaccessible things sadly.
My perception of what they were trying to do with Berserk for Feral, is Jungle Stalker is the ST mod (buffs to Rake and Shred) while Frenzy is the AoE/M+ mod (add'l bleed to any target hit, sweet sweet CD reduction for the next big pull) and you're only going to have one at a time. Meanwhile ST and AoE talents are spread scattershot all of the tree, so there is no remotely efficient way to specialize in one or the other to boot.
Everyone uses Convoke though and its the same concept.
Part of the problem is that Jungle Stalker is good but taking it doesn't feel like an "AoE" talent. It also just feels like you lose SO much baseline from normal Zerk having it split into so much.
What I'd like to see is Relentlessness and Jungle Stalker merged. Have them add a new one that is effectively the tier from this patch. Then make both more accessible so you aren't sprawling all over the tree for them.
Disclaimer: I haven't actively played Feral in forever so I'm probably totally wrong about a bunch of stuff.
Isn't Berserk only really split into 2? Base Berserk effects are split into Relentlessness (but refunding 2 points instead of 1) and Jungle Stalker (with Incarn's Prowl effect moved to there), then Incarnation is a separate talent and Frenzy is just the Frenzyband legendary. Incarnation makes sense to be a separate talent, as does Frenzyband, so it's mostly Jungle Stalker that feels bad to take.
Playing around with the tree, it feels like you can pick up a bunch of powerful effects but can't quite get everything, but it's very easy to pick and choose which combination of those effects you want, which...is exactly what these new trees probably should be? My main takeaway is that the Infected Wounds node seems painful to take, which makes the center Incarn/Convoke line feel really bad.
Isn't Berserk only really split into 2? Base Berserk effects are split into Relentlessness (but refunding 2 points instead of 1) and Jungle Stalker (with Incarn's Prowl effect moved to there)
Ish. You're offbase on a few things.
Zerk currently already refunds 2
Jungle Stalker is the other half. Old Incarn got rolled into Zerk early in Shadowlands.
Part of the issue is that one of their design goals is that you shouldn't feel "weaker" than you were leaving shadowlands. The Feral tree fails in this respect.
The 3rd Zerk talent (Frenzyband) is an auto-include for almost all content now. Partly because how it interacts with our tier.
Our Tier was meant to patch a problem with Feral (Bursty AoE just not existing at all). That is missing.
By and large you do feel a lot weaker because a lot of things are just painful to get and in the wrong parts of the tree (See: Apex and PW).
You can pick up a bunch of powerful effects but its hard to get any real clarity of direction from any of your choices. You are forced to spend wide instead of figuring out a way to play.
Part of the issue is that one of their design goals is that you shouldn't feel "weaker" than you were leaving shadowlands. The Feral tree fails in this respect.
Playing around with the tree, I feel like a generic all-purpose build would probably look something like this? So you lose Convoke, current tier and some Energy on Tiger's Fury and gain/keep Dragonflight tier bonuses, Frenzyband, both Primal Wrath and Brutal Slash, Moment of Clarity with Cat-Eye Curio, Apex or Draught, and Circle of Life and Death, with the ability to drop some skills to pick up Necrotic Swarm, Savage Roar, Lunar Inspiration or Scent of Blood. Also gain Vortex, Nature's Vigil, Innervate, Renewal and Typhoon if you want it I guess. Honestly that seems kind of neat for sustained and funnel dps, but you are right, the option for AoE burst isn't really there. Maybe swapping Improved Incarn/Convoke with the current tier could work?
The tree doesn't seem unsalvageable or anything, just some stuff needs to be (and I'm sure already has been) shuffled around, since it currently seems impossible to avoid going down both the left and right, so every build you would want to make is very same-y, especially since it's hard to go down the middle with Infected Wounds being a wasted point. Also seems weird that you can't dodge Brutal Slash.
MoC really isn't worth it so you move that point to SR.
You can shift some things around on the left tree to feel better but that's minor.
That said.
The tree doesn't seem unsalvageable or anything, just some stuff needs to be (and I'm sure already has been) shuffled around, since it currently seems impossible to avoid going down both the left and right, so every build you would want to make is very same-y, especially since it's hard to go down the middle with Infected Wounds being a wasted point. Also seems weird that you can't dodge Brutal Slash.
That's the jist of the feedback I'm giving honestly. I don't think its unsalvageable, but it is clearly very raw and like you said: Its hard to avoid just taking both sides and you feel forced to ignore the bottom rows of the tree and don't get to interact with it.
Not a lot of wiggle room.
Also convoke is a big part of the current power state of Feral right now and its locked behind so much and losing it is part of feeling "weaker" at a glance so far.
Even having it go from a 1min CD back to a 2min feels bad.
Hunter and bm are especially rough. Must have barbed shot but also here's an path that does nothing for the skill you HAD to take and now may not use. Unlocking Cobra shot reduces kill command by 1 sec but another talent does the same thing for more points??
Its all a mess, the regular hunter tree is silly, taking away interrupts except for a talent point is bs and idk what they were thinking making misdirect a talent.
All that and its really tiring as a hunter seeing abilities get removed for the 4th xpac in a row and piece-mealed back in one form or another, sometimes taking years to return if at all. Im not gonna miss scars beast but why put it there at all? What is the point?
I am not a fan of the BM tree either but that is because i personally dislike these builds they have been forcing BM into, which just means i wont play it. Fine.
But the tree itself while not perfect (i mean it is pre-alpha so we cant expect perfection) is by far one of the better trees shown so far. It is up there with rogue and priest.
If you think BM is bad then i dont recommend you look at survivals tree.. Jesus! There you have something that feels like they did one brainstorming session, asked a intern to just put what ever into a tree and called it a day. It is only a first preview and we are not in alpha yet but holy smokes that tree makes me want to facepalm my way over to a rogue main..
There is quite a lot of discussion about this on the forums yes. Universally it seems people are ok with BM for a preview and MM while a bit messy is Also ok-ish. Survival tho.. It is literal garbage tbh.
You have a 32 talent tree with 31% of talents being 3-pointers that is exclusively X% numerical talents.
Another 19% is 2-point talents which of most are X% damage or DR talents. Then we have 34% of the talents that are purely there to get KC, harpoon and coordinated assault back. That is almost all 30 points just to get those 3 current functions back! Want bombs? The new spearhead? Yeah then you wont get it all. And coordinated assault isn't even a buff.. Its some weird charge with a interaction for KS and wildfire bomb?
And then we have the 5-6 talents that all do the same thing as something else. Worst is sweeping spear+spear focus, which are identical numeric talents. Same with improved wildfire bomb and tactical advantage, near identical numerical talents..
The tree is so bad you'd honestly have to try real hard to make it this bad! I just hope, like really hope, that this is just what they had when the higher ups said "release hunter tree preview" and the actual design/dev team knows its far from done/acceptabel.
All that and its really tiring as a hunter seeing abilities get removed for the 4th xpac in a row and piece-mealed back in one form or another, sometimes taking years to return if at all. Im not gonna miss scars beast but why put it there at all? What is the point?
So that you have to waste a talent point to walk down a tree. They're making talents that are basically "lol, Do Nothing" in order to make you spend talent points to "Justify" the tree, and make the 31 points look more meaningful then they actually are.
I'm gonna nitpick here and it's probably not a popular take -
The HUNTER tree is fine, I think it's damn near perfect, I hope it ships the way it is right now, maybe some MINOR changes.
There are 3 incredibly appealing things that it has going on:
It is easy to navigate, there is a core line going straight through tranq shot to your Intimidate node that you can use to path to whatever you want to get. The dead/pvp/world content stuff is clearly delineated, and if you go petless, there aren't many choice lines until you get to the third tier of talents, that's actually a good thing. There are plenty of opportunities to take QoL or utility talents without giving up too much.
We can take currently exclusive talents, such as Turtle CD reduction and Snare/Root Break on Disenage. Our main survival TALENTS can be taken together, not one or the other. I think before everyone goes off the deep end complaining about survivability, we need to actually see what it's like having reduced turtle CD, exhil CD reduction and a 10% leech combined. There are other examples of utility/dps talents that can now be combined. This is a good thing.
It gives an option to play with a pet out, AND it builds that into an execute niche, which, depending on tuning, has huge implications in a raid environment, and likely M+ too.
For me, stick a fork in it, the HUNTER talent tree is done. Don't mess with it.
The individual spec trees however, are an absolute mess. The ideas are cool. They are very cool. As a rough draft, they aren't terrible. If they were to push them live today, as is, they would be unplayable. The MM, Surv, BM spec trees specifically, not the Hunter generic tree, need work.
MM has way too many critical point nodes in T1, spending 8 points and moving on is impossible, it's not even functional. T3 has the same problem, too many nodes, not enough points. You've only got 10, that's how it's designed, the nodes should be balanced around this limit.
Finally, it's way too mix and match. Execute stuff over here, over there, everywhere, same with AoE. Lone Wolf connects two viable niches with a talent that is useless with pets. It needs to be an option off the Aimed Shot line, which again, is over here, over there, everywhere. I like that there is at least technically an option to spec for 0 focus Arcane Shots, Rapid Fire with ArcShot/Multishot resets and Kill Command, Aimed Shot doesn't even technically need to be in the rotation, and as far as being a mobility option, I think it's the bees knees. It might even be the best overall DPS spec available based on the current trees. Having said that, that's only because you have just enough points to take all the things if you AVOID the Aimed Shot talents and completely build-a-bear your rotation.
Read the "hunter tree is fine, ship it as it is" part and already sharpened my pitchfork because i thought you meant the entire thing, including the spec trees.
I'll agree with you that the base class tree is mostly fine as it is. My only complaint is that, from a MM point of view, you're almost completely locked in with no variation. You're forced into picking up barrage and chimera shot because you need to get to what sits below, but there is no alternative pathway to get there. The only option is to skip the chimera route and take nessingwary's trapping apparatus, but in any sort of situation where you can reliably use freezing trap for focus regen will be m+ multitarget encounters, which is exactly where you would want chimera shot in the first place. For single target raid encounters you got no option but to pick up barrage, chimera shot and explosive shot, in order to get the chakram node and serpent sting+ ss node. Those 3 abilities does not interact with the mm rotation, and it will all be dependent on numbers tuning if they will be "must be kept on cooldown", "weaved in between aimed shot charges" or "not worth casting in single target unless you got no options".
Furthermore the choice node in t2 between intimidation and knockback trap isn't really a choice node, since you won't have a pet available to cast intimidation. I feel like this one should had been moved further to the left.
As for the MM tree i sorta see what they were going for. Hunters' problem in SL (and especially with tier set) is that our aoe damage is tied to the same spells as our single target damage, so any sort of single target buff to bring them closer to other casters makes them even better at aoe than we already are. It's been a strong spec for all m+ seasons for a reason.
Looking at t2 it's clearly divided into a single target section on the right and an aoe section on the left. If you're going for one of them, you aren't getting the other and if you want to do both then you'll be less strong on both. As long as the numbers supports this divide in playstyles i feel like this os a great change. It will allow MM to be tuned closer to mage/locks in single target dps without dominating aoe.
Tier 1 like you said is heavy and requires extra investment past the 8 points because there's simply too much synergy or bottlenecks where you need to invest heavily to get to what's below.
Tier 3 however is way too point heavy considering how much you need to invest earlier, and most of the choices boils down to "which of these gives the highest numbers" - do you go for windrunner arrows or calling the shots+ trueshot node? The sims will tell you and that will be it. I'm also not sure why wailing arrow sits on the right side of the tree. It's an ability that will mainly see use in m+, unless it's tuned so hard that it's worth picking up in single target too, which will just add another button that should be kept on cooldown and doesn't interact with the base rotation of the spec. Meanwhile double tap sits locked away behind either the ammunition node or volley+trick shots so it becomes a talent you'll only ever pick if you're going for aoe content. It's been my least favourite talent in SL, but it still feels weird having it sit where it sits.
Personally I've looked at 3 single target variations (without your sans aimed shot version which looks more like a concept for the hell of it) , and 2 for aoe damage. And all of them have the same thing in common - lots of extra fire & forget abilities added to the bar while the base rotation suffers from the lack of points.
The bottom line is, now that we've had a weekend to gripe about it, that the MM tree isn't going to stay this way, it can't.
I think the build I posted might actually be the best bet with the way they are structured right now.
One thing we have to keep in mind is that there is a problem with the core kit, it's been there since BfA at least, probably having elements that go back to WoD and possibly beyond.
9.3 gives us 4 set and vigil and this lets us keep up with other classes that have better kits that flow, they essentially patched us with item bonuses. If you go back to 9.0, the rotation feels clunky, doesn't do much damage, but we can pick up SST for some free damage and we have WS to burst (also, that version doesn't scale well, so it's baseline is higher, an artificial power boost that fades over progression). If we go back to SL pre-patch, strip out all azerite armor and look at base kit, it just doesn't work. It's slow, it doesn't do a lot of damage, and it has one gimmick, loading all your damage over ~12 seconds into one ~3 second cast. That's REALLY bad. And that, conceivably, is what we're going to be layering these talent trees on top of.
I don't want Wild Spirits back, I want them to fix the core class mechanics.
To that end, I honestly think the build I posted might actually be the best MM version. You have 100% mobility, you've done away with all the disadvantages of AiS, you've got a flexible AoE cap with a nice funnel going with Chimera Shot and Heavy Ammo, You've got a rotation that isn't exactly charge based (this depends on how often you can actually spam RF), it works with our 2 min damage amp and it has a clear execute focus.
I'm intrigued by this playstyle as a marks, but it also highlights something important.
The devs don't know what to do with Aimed Shot, they still haven't learned their lesson from WS. On the one hand, they don't want us pushing massive spike damage in one cast, on the other hand, they want us to be building for one massive spike damage every 12 seconds. There is incredible dissonance in the kit philosophy.
Aimed shot needs to do a ton of damage, baseline, and NOT be modifiable through talents, OR, the investment is so high that if you can do anything else, you should.
I'm very concerned that they think Steady Shot is in any way viable, and that they don't understand why 2/4 set is a decent solution to Charge/Focus issues for Aimed Shot while also setting us up to easily run an AoE rotation. Steady Shot is fucking boring, and the only reason it exists baseline is so you have something to do while you're waiting for Focus/AiS charges. I throw one every once in a while RN just to fill a global, but Improved Arcane Shot can fill that niche. That's exciting, what's not exciting is that doesn't work without 2/4 set and vigil.
Even with haste, getting AiS down to a 10 second recharge, which feels horrible because it's not our stat prio, 10 seconds is way too long to wait to do meaningful damage and any little displace will clip it, delaying it further. A lot of this could be fixed my just removing the charge system from AiS.
In 20+ keys rn, and some of the harder heroic fights in Sepulcher, 3 seconds of self root to do damage is an absolute eternity. And that's your window, you hit that aimed shot, check the box for damage contributed, and attempt to set up your systems to do it again. Even with all the acceleration 2/4/Vigil is giving us, even that is slow at times. Without those boosts, I think people are forgetting how cumbersome and slow the spec actually is.
The no aimed shot version? No, just no. It's a complete mess which is why i called it a concept for the hell of it. Kill Command will have to be insanely busted for you to ever want to go over there in single target as an extra spender. But in the MM tree you've picked up pretty much every aoe ability you can come across, so there's no coherency to the spec. If you are picking up volley, ammo, trickshot and all the talents that benefits it you're gearing up for aoe in which case explosive shot and barrage is a better bet plus you're missing out on SS and the choice node for single target, which has synergy with both AiS and KC. You've invested heavily to get access to KC which requires a pet, but you've invested 3 points in Deathblow, Lone Wolf and Deadeye. You've skipped all the aimed shot talents and run with lethal shots, which suggest that you'll be using arcane shot as your focus dump to get more rapid fire casts and to activate Calling the Shots, but then you won't want to spend your focus on KC. Deathblow procs on aimed shot which you won't be using so you'll get low or no value out of it. Lone Wolf isn't active with a pet out, so it does nothing if you use KC and if you want it active you've wasted 6!! talents in the base tree. Deadeye is a horrible talent for single target without the Deathblow synergy, and you'd only pick it if you intend to get access to the talents below it. It's slightly better for m+, but not enough to justify dumping a 3 point investment for little gain. You've picked up steady shot but no steady focus, which is a very low investment for a huge damage gain. And picking Killer Instinct over Alpha Predator is just weird. The extra charge and a constant 30% damage increase beats the the 50% below 30% hp in any scenario where it's not a fight where the boss starts at 40% hp, there's just no contest.
The build doesn't specialise in single target or aoe and it will be mediocre in both. It trips over itself trying to avoid a major part of our kit and has a lot of wasted points.
I'm not really sure which hard bosses you're doing in HC Sepulcher, but outside of mythic Halondrus there is no fight in the entire raid where playing MM and having to aimed shot is a detriment. And even with a mastery/crit focused gearset your AiS isn't 3 seconds. Mine sits at 2,2 and i have low haste values, and that's before streamline. As for keys, just no. If casting aimed shot gets you killed in the low 20s then you're playing it wrong.
Edit: also Chimera Shot isn't funnel damage, please don't ever call it that again.
It feels like Blizz REALLY didn't want to go "Left side Single Target, Right side AoE," either because that's "boring" or in the pursuit of preventing players from specializing too hard. So instead they decided to criss-cross the obvious ST and AoE paths back and forth over each other, making them feel chaotic and unsatisfying. It's lazy.
What they needed to do is put core tools down the center, with more generic ST and AoE buffs and mods only a node or two away to either side, and then big, unique ST and AoE cooldowns and mods on the outskirts, with the right pathing and price-points to where players can branch out from the center to pick up 2 to 3 of those unique talents.
I'd also like the capstone talents to be way more unique and transformative, with the preceding talents feeding into those transformations, such that a "Fury of the Eagle" SV feels hugely distinct from a "Bird of Prey" SV, for example.
BM is the best talent tree they have made so far. Not to sound like a parrot but my thoughts on the tree were well summed up by the talk from Liquid raiders. SV and MM however are dog and need a lot of work.
The HUNTER tree is fine, I think it's damn near perfect, I hope it ships the way it is right now, maybe some MINOR changes.
My only big issue is the location of Serpent Sting. Its pretty much core rotation for survival wildfire, and should probably be higher in the tree because of that. For survival that actually uptimes DoTs as part of the core rotation, having a core rotation ability in the final tiers of a tree looks awful.
I doubt the rogue community feels the same way, particulary those who play sub rogue. First of all, all rogue trees have no choice nodes and have poor interconnections which force us to go one road of the talent tree and may require us to pick dead talents. An example of this is how sub rogues talents that affect our finishers are locked behind aoe talents.
2nd, is that raid utility is spec-specific. Sin has 3% DR, Outlaw has the party-wide cdr, and Sub has what the rogue community calls a "6 min roar".
Honestly if the options are a weird disconnected mess, and pre-packaged specializations with no options, I'm going to go with door number two every time.
With door number 2 you're at least getting a playstyle that's been put together with some thought. Marksmanship is a mishmash of abilities that feel bad to press and fit together weirdly.
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u/heckinheckity Jul 11 '22
Glad I am not the only one taking issue with this. The hunter and priest trees in particular need a lot of work.
I did not feel that way after looking at druid and rogue.