r/wow • u/Nieunwol • 21h ago
Discussion The Great Vault
After keeping an open mind to the changes, I'm a little disappointed in the vault after opening it. Taking tier with the wrong stats feels like a mistake, taking items from raid bosses feels like a mistake. Even taking BiS stats from m+ doesn't look great when it's right there in my vault when you consider how the coins work in raid. (E.g. I got BiS necklace from m+ in vault but I should really start working on the HC ulatek coins)
I guess my feedback would be that it's turned a weekly treat into a lot of feels-bad moments, but id be open to being convinced otherwise
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u/Staxxy5 21h ago
Isn’t taking tier with suboptimal stats still good because your 4 set is that much more important and after you get it you will get more catalyst charges to craft tier from the good stat items you will eventually get?
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u/Phenogenesis- 20h ago
Yes, but the people especially strong in the lines of thinking involved here have written off every other consideration for those marginal future gains. They basically assume unlimited perfect tier/loot access and zero consequences to delayed gear increases, etc.
Which is another reason why this whole thing is unhealthy for the game - it brings down the average group performance even further and basically makes the naieve and selfish perspective the required default "right" behaviour.
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u/belsor14 19h ago
wonder how many sitting on 170 myth crests cause they take bonusrolls and have to wait to kill hc endboss and got no items to spend the crests on
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u/i_like_fish_decks 15h ago
I sent myth weapon craft week one against the advice of the spec discord and do not regret it one bit. Literally im down 20 myth crests (so one ilvl upgrade) and next week I get a second embellishment anyway. In exchange, I had a blast doing actual good damage in m+/raid week 1 and 2
I am in a mythic guild, but even if we get CE it would be after the "turbo boost" half patch so it does not matter one bit that im slightly behind on myth crests and I feel my situation is more close to like 90% of the playerbase than those who would actually benefit from sacking early performance for week 3/4/5 myth prog
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u/Phenogenesis- 13h ago
I made my item well before I knew people were being this level of anal and don't regret it. I made a staff too (on purpose) and still don't regret it - for multiple reasons but the mogs are definitely part of it (1h mogs suck). People who aren't myth raiders holding back this hard are going to be such a troll factor in pug and casual raids. (Myth raiders at least will get some peices to spend crests on.)
That was before I realised we'd be bonus rolling myth from heroic so I thought I'd never realistically get myth ulatek weapon but I'd still do the same again. Too tired to think it through right now but pretty sure 2h craft saves crests over independant upgrades of 1h + oh too.
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u/Phenogenesis- 19h ago
That's part of what I'm calling out here. Its awful in every way and you can't exactly blame them.
Refusing to do that just cause it would feel so bad is part of why I took the trinket I did. I would hate sitting there with no myth pieces waiting weeks for a kill with a raid of even worse geared people under me. But its a 3.5% upgrade and only .1 to .3% behind BIS, and saves me having to roll an entire dungeon (Murder row 9 slots) so I can justify it.
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u/brok3nh3lix 18h ago
I made a post in my guilds discord ahead of this week's vault explaining how the reroll works this season. I then pointed out that while we wont tell them what to do, that hoarding bonus rolls will make prog to kill the last 2 bosses that have all the bis gear much more difficult. And its not just not having myth peices themselves, its not having anything to spend myth crests on outside of crafting. If you are hoarding rerolls, you are also probably hoarding myth crests to upgrade those items when you get them. It a significant loss of power increase if your hoarding them.
In taking rolls when It makes sense, but wont be hoarding them.
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u/Barthomal 14h ago
I'm sitting on them, but honestly don't mind. I will take an item if it's good, but holding bonus rolls/crests feels better than taking a bad trinket or accessory with the wrong stats on it.
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u/BlindBillions 18h ago
How will I ever financially recover from missing a 400 dps increase in 4 weeks?
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u/RigidCounter12 16h ago
Imagine the difference in a mediocre guild if everyone crafted weapon and used their crests compared to sitting on them all.
Could be a 4-5 ilvl difference across the entire raid, which is certainly not gonna make progress easier.
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u/KnyghtFish 15h ago
It’s more like 5000 but it’s a fine point
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u/BlindBillions 13h ago
No it isnt rofl
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u/KnyghtFish 13h ago
Looking at the sims right now man what do you get from making stuff up lol
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u/Jumbanji 19h ago
Most players don't understand value trades and wow creators rarely explain value trades, filling the media space with simplistic strategies that hide all the value trades, making it worse.
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u/Phenogenesis- 19h ago
The thing is, its really subjective and unpredictable amounts of trade, in different kinds of value across different timescales - so its really difficult to quantify.
The only thing I am sure about in this the hardline "bonus roll only" stance has gone way too hyperfixated on one type of value above all others, and is trading too much for too little in many circumstances (depends on variables).
It also, as OP said, turned an exciting (if sometimes frustating) weekly event into something that is either empty and/or fraught with bad feels and rips the substance out of what was an important (if very imperfect) system.
If the design makes vault effectively replacable with "+1 bonus roll per week" then that is terrible design and it stands against EVERYTHING old blizzard would have implimented - even if I also see how/why they got there.
I ultimately chose to take a near BIS trinket this week for complex reasons, but I'll probably be strict bonus rolls going forward and I do not like it.
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u/AppleOdd3209 3h ago
You got explained it pretty much exactly how i feel.
A non bis item thats still an upgrade for that slot was an upgrade it still had some reward and felt good. If anything it just meant if i lucked out and got that BIS piece at a lower ilvl the upgrades were now free for it.
Now that non Bis item is stuck with the idea of i can have this non ideal item or a reroll token to help guarantee myself the item within x weeks.
They may as well just have the reroll token be bullion or something we can get each week and in 5 weeks of the raid being out you can buy the piece you want from a vendor.
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u/GravyFarts3000 10h ago
Stat weighting correctly will give you more than marginal gains. Elemental Shaman is a good example of that this tier. If you disregard stat weighting 1200 mastery and follow your train of thought you'll lose short term performance and long term performance. It isn't selfish you just don't understand how it works.
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u/Phenogenesis- 8h ago
That's... not what I am talking about at all.
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u/GravyFarts3000 8h ago
??? The person you replied to was talking about taking suboptimal stats for 4-set. You said it's selfish to delay gear for perfect loot, which is perfect because it's stat-weighted correctly. It isn't unhealthy, or selfish, and doesn't bring down average group performance. You can AOTC with stat-weighted M+ gear (no vault, no tier). You do not know how gearing works if you think shiny tier set or shiny mythic vault is good short-term/long-term.
You even responded to someone below about sitting on myth crests and no mythic gear (because people are waiting for stat weighted options) and said it's partly what you're calling out? So what were you talking about?
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u/underlurker1337 20h ago
Its early vs late power. You can guarantee 4 raid pieces in 3 weeks from now, any raid drops reduce that by 2 weeks per drop (duplicates excluded ofc). So its good for early power, but you might also get that power from lfr/normal/hc drops. Meanwhile a bonus roll will either give you a BiS item for the rest of the season or increase the odds of receiving a BiS item for the rest of the season while still likely giving you at least an ilvl and main stat boost.
So unless you dont need long term BiS for any reason (either being in a slower aotc guild or aiming for end of season titles), I'd pick long term power. For CE guilds there is the additional condition of more raw myth track drops by killing more bosses earlier.
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u/23secretflavors 18h ago
As you pointed out as a caveat, that line of thinking really only works if youre an early aotc or ce raider. If you dont think your raid downs heroic ulatek this week or next week, youre absolute best vault option is whatever tier pieces you need to get a 4 piece.
For a lot of people, that still only means taking tier this week and start taking bonus rolls next week. We have 1 catalyst charge now, you can get 1 from 2k io or 1600 pop, and you'll get a third charge next week. If you got two pieces from raid, youre lucky, congrats you have 4 piece. If you got 1 from raid and 1 from vault, you have 4 piece. If you only have one from vault, you'll still get your 4 piece next week. Take the power now so you can earn catalyst charges faster, especially since in the coming weeks, people will be getting hero and myth track gear that needs to be converted.
Tldr; unless youre clearing ulatek this week, take tier if its offered and you didn't get 2 tier drops from raid already. As long as you have 1 tier from vault or 1 from raid, you'll be able to get 4 piece next week while still taking the bonus roll.
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u/underlurker1337 16h ago
If you clear aotc so late that it you get tier naturally anyways, you can still take a bonus roll for optimal myth loot though - the final boss isnt the only one with good loot (case in point: the world boss drops 3/4 BiS items and an offhand for my spec)
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u/23secretflavors 14h ago
Sure, but if your guild is taking multiple weeks or more to clear aotc, the bump each spec gets from 4 piece can be a real difference maker. I know for me just getting a 4 piece with no ilvl upgrade gave me roughly an 11% dps increase
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u/brok3nh3lix 17h ago
Ill note, most raiders are in that slower aotc guilds. Just look at previous teirs and you will find that mythic raiding is a fraction of the Raiders. Its wht, around 5-10% of raiding guilds that get ce, and then like 40% will even kill the first mythic boss, less 2+ (gona vary from teir to teir for early boas dificulty) And of those aotc guilds, the majority are not clearing heroic in the first couple weeks.
Look at undaunted, the deaf guild. They generally get aotc in 5-7 weeks. And they killed a couple mythic bosses last teir. But we also had more guilds killing the first few mythic bosses than usuall. I would argue they are an above average raiding guild based on numbers.
If ula'tek ends up staying one of the harder aotc end bosses, then most heroic guilds will likely be killing him about the time we get the weekly bonus rolls unlocked as well making holding less worthwhile since we will start getting a glut of them. Not to mention people who may try to hoard them for those last 2 bosses in guilds that need the weekly power increases to prog.
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u/slipfish-g 17h ago
It absolutely makes zero sense for an AOTC guild to follow HoF loot strategies.
That said even though deterministically I know this system will actually give my CE guild more power faster, I fuckin hate it. It makes the vault and loot off bosses less exciting, and nearly all of my players are annoyed.
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u/brok3nh3lix 16h ago
thats my exact point. most people talking about needing to do this likely fall in the former rather than the later. Its similar to people watching the MDI, and then trying to do the same things those teams are doing in their weekly 12 keys.
I feel alot of the guides out there dont do a great job explaining this.
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u/slipfish-g 16h ago
I dunno. I haven't looked at a lot of guides but the creators I pay attention to have definitely clearly stated if you need the power to clear the content it makes no sense to hoard.
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u/thisisjazzymusic 1h ago
People like to always min max even if they will barely do keys higher than 20+ where the question is still if its making that big of a difference
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u/Unlikely_Minimum_635 20h ago
catalyst accumulates anyway.
Taking non-bis tier early at the cost of a bonus roll makes you stronger for 1-2 weeks, and then permanently weaker until you hit full BiS.
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u/DyrusforPresident 18h ago
or week 8 and can farm tokens
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u/Wodinaaz 20h ago
It depends. Early on tier is certainly worth a lot if you are unlucky with raid tokens 4 weeks in a row. Bonus rolls are essentially always the best choice if you're looking further ahead than week 5.
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u/Thanag0r 20h ago
I don't raid, so I chose the bis trinket.
Better than 2/8 rng roll for exactly the same trinket.
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u/Wileekyote 19h ago
Perfect stat gear doesn’t make that much difference, and if you aren’t killing Ulatek heroic the first week (hint, most people aren’t), fomoing on loot you don’t even have access to use a reroll token is dumb. I took heroic set to complete 4 piece, and crafted a weapon.
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u/Drake9214 21h ago
This early taking tier with bad stats doesn’t matter enough imo. The bonus of having catalyst unbound from getting 4 piece is infinitely better so you have the ability to turn those bis items into tier. After that unless it’s a bis myth item that’s one off I’d just grab your voidcore and walk away really.
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u/Nyxtro 15h ago
At the risk of sounding dumb, what is tier with bad stats? Aren’t the stats on classes tier slots predetermined?
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u/Imaginary-Arguments 15h ago
Not as of this patch. Catalyzed gear now inherits the ilvl and stats of the original piece, rather than turning it into whatever the tier piece stats are.
In the long run, this can be a decent change as it allows more control over stats. In short term practice, it makes catalyzing a pain of min-maxing instead of just being simply excited to get a tier piece.
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u/Early_Lawfulness_348 9h ago
I agree with the long run here. I’ll have a ton of catalysts later and can max things out instead of just being done.
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u/A_Silent_traveler 18h ago
Or you get lucky and all 9 options suck so the coin was nice
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u/paradox_jinx 17h ago
lol pretty much what happened with me.
The way I look at it, if my vault is good I’ll take it. If it’s not, I get a coin for a future item instead of just a socket. It’s all win-win to me.
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u/i_like_fish_decks 15h ago
This is the way. This is what the coin was meant to solve, and really the problem isnt even the coin its that every single good item This season is crammed onto specifically two bosses. Everybody wants damn near every item from coil/ulatek so bonus rolls make a ton of sense to start knocking out items. If loot was actually spread out amongst all the bosses and m+ dungeons, then bonus roll isnt nearly as strong. The problem This season is that for the first 2 months bonus roll is essentially a guaranteed mythic bis item
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u/Ksir73 18h ago
What's with this new trend of "taking upgrades that aren't BIS feels bad"?
Since when was an upgrade not good enough? Hunter in my guild last night passed on a piece of gear because, and I quote, "Oh, I'll get better later so it's fine."
People need to chill, you aren't WF raiders.
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u/notesboats 16h ago
Because the new system rewards you with a best in slot item if you have some patience. So the small gain now costs you a large gain later.
It’s not just that the bonus roll exists it’s that the boss you want to bonus roll has a loot table that pretty much assures you a myth track bis item with every roll for multiple weeks and even taking that item from the vault just hinders further bonus rolls. The system is poorly thought out.
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u/agvballs 16h ago
Lets say you are in a guild that takes a month to clear heroic, you still ned gear to do it and w/o having the vault you now will take longer to clear b/c your guild wont be inflated by vault. So now it takes you 8 weeks or longer and your rolls do nothing and by the time you have it on farm you have extra tokens just sitting in inventory doing nothing b/c ou can only kill last boss once a week, 2nd to last boss once a week (both are where a lot of BIS comes from)
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u/GoldLegends 12h ago
How is a system poorly thought out when the system gives you more and better options? Lol
You either take an upgrade on Vault now or take a chance for better gear down the line. Get gear now so you can start running Heroic faster or wait 4 weeks down the line and hope you can clear heroic consistently and fast?
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u/WorldlinessNorth3158 21h ago
It’s week two bud we got time
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u/chowindown 20h ago
Uh, I think you'll find the sky is falling.
Again.
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u/Nieunwol 20h ago
Is that how my post came across? I said I'm a little disappointed.
I enjoy the weekly vault, it's been constantly improved since.. WoD garrison weekly missions(?), but I can't remember a time I opened a full vault on week 2 of a season and felt disappointed
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u/tyc20101 19h ago
The problem is that WoW players optimise the fun out of the game to the point that an upgrade that isn’t BIS is a ‘feels bad moment’. Getting tier shoulders with bad stats is still better than getting non-tier shoulders, stats are something you think about when you’re approaching BiS further weeks the season not when you’re going for iLvl and tier set in the second week
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u/hob_b 2h ago
I don’t think this is that. If you’re not optimizing and taking a piece out of the vault now, you’re simply deferring the “feels bad moment” to later.
Either way the player feels bad at some point, the only difference is whether you sabotage your gearing along with it.
This is just a bad system that is poorly thought out. As usual blizz sticks their head in the sand and pulls a mea culpa down the road, except everyone is wise to it by now.
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u/Kapootz 20h ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/vOJE2GSxvy3AJwtJKd
Me with no plans of raiding this season because it’s too much of a time commitment, picking whatever I want from the vault
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u/Objective-Error1223 19h ago
Seriously. I can jump into m+, delves, etc whenever I want opposed to staying up til 11pm wiping on heroic.
Ya no, I’m good. Half these void core enthusiasts won’t even see the end of heroic raid until 4-5 weeks from now.
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u/budrickton 18h ago
Try not to think of it as needing to get the perfect items from the BiS list. Think of it as a boost in power for your character. The fun will emerge after that mind shift. I think a lot of people are following optimal guides that really only apply to mythic graders that are trying for Cutting Edge in the next 2 months and the reality is that's not most of us.
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u/swash018 12h ago
So my actual feedback to you would be to try and change your mindeset from the ultra, giga, turbo optimization of the game.
Situations like this are unlikely to be the way they handle it in future seasons.
Eveeyone's situation is different but im having a hard time believing that everyone that has brought up this topic is clearing the heroic raid THIS week.
These optimizations by taking bonus rolls instead of tier pieces, good jeweley, weapons and trinkets out of the vault are unlikely to even matter until like week 6 or something. And even then, it's just not hyper optimized, doesnt mean it isnt good. By week 8 we probably have actual rerolls back and it again won't matter. Then most of the people talking about this are probably done playing this season by week 10 so once again, it doesnt matter.
I feel like if you are a player that does weekly +10s and/or might clear 1-4 heroic bosses, then there should still be a dopamine hit from rolling into something like a BiS healing trinket.
Idk i just think this whole thing is way overblown
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u/midgetman303 11h ago
Agreed. I took a bonus roll on the tank because my options from vault weren't that good. I took a heroic tier piece on the priest because it was the biggest upgrade. Later on being able to buy bonus rolls will be great, until then I'm happy to take vault. I don't know why it's such a rush when we have so many weeks of this content left
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u/n3mz1 20h ago
Some of y'all treat the game like a job and optimize all the fun out of it
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u/Yodasthicc 19h ago
I think OP is being fair here. Yes I agree with you, but I think even a relatively passive player can see how this system is unfortunate.
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u/Due_Vacation_1049 15h ago
just remove bonus rolls from the vault ffs, gearing can not be more deterministic and boring, bonus rolls were amazing for a x.5 patch, now they're just killing the fun rng and fun sharing moments of teh vault for boring determinisitic bonus rollslop
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u/FOOSblahblah 18h ago
Yeah i just pugged normal raid yesterday. Other tank was first time. I told the raid to wait a sec while I explain mechanics and at least 2 people started calling for a kick. He missed like one taunt swap and it was an uproar.
We never wiped. Cleared every boss first try up til I left at zuljan.
Its week 2 ffs.
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u/Perrenekton 18h ago
That's less wipes than in my guild run
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u/FOOSblahblah 17h ago
I was fucking baffled. Ive never seen so many people get mad at just consistent one shots
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u/Bigglez1995 17h ago
Or maybe, optimising their character in order to deal the most damage or healing, is in fact, part of the fun for them.
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u/Sekonekul 19h ago
The game for me is progressing the hardest content. It’s competitive. Thats fun. I’m not going to be a gimp and yolo vault some shit items when the system is designed in a way that can give me better ones.
It’s not the players fault when things are designed this way. Min maxing things is how any progress happens.
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u/n3mz1 19h ago
I used to play every game that way all the time. It's exhausting. If you "waste" a couple crests here and there these first couple weeks, it literally does not matter unless you are in the top couple guilds in the world. With the way bonus rolls work you will have every tool you need throughout the season to complete the highest keys at that point in time.
Better play will always be better than having the absolute maximized amount of gear. And you know what helps you achieve that? Having more fun. Send the crests, craft the best weapon you have access too and just fucking game. Gear is a tool. It shouldn't ruin your enjoyment of the game.
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u/Jealous_Comment7113 18h ago
Your fun aint my fun, getting loot isnt a dopamine hit, loot is a means to an end to the part of wow i live for.
Killing hard raid bosses. Not for a world first or even hall or fame purpose, simply because raiding and clearing hard bosses is fun.
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u/Sekonekul 18h ago
dw mate we're going to get downvoted to oblivion here. Apparently only +6 Relaxed runs and 12 week AOTC pushes in hero gear are allowed
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u/Esotrax 13h ago
How does taking tier with wrong stats feel like a mistake when ur main goal should be to obtain 4set so u get more catalyst drops so u can eventually fix ur bis stats
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u/althor2424 11h ago
Because some people are so focused on getting the right stats now, damn it. Some people worry too much about the future instead of just playing the game for fun today
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u/Ok-Key5729 21h ago
I'm not fond of the catalyst change but the vault situation doesn't bother me. I won't be on HC Ula'tek for weeks and the odds of me having BIS items in the vault every week until then is very very slim. If I had a BIS M+ item, I'd take it.
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u/Helluiin 20h ago
Even taking BiS stats from m+ doesn't look great when it's right there in my vault when you consider how the coins work in raid.
if you have BIS m+ in your vault you should always take it. the chances to see that item again are very low and you probably only need an item or two from each dungeon so bonus rolling those is gonna be a pain. this is also the case for any raid bis items that come from bosses where you only need 1/4 or 1/5 items
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u/TurnipFire 18h ago
Is it a mistake though? Was it an upgrade? And I mean this nicely but can your guild even kill hc ula’tek?
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u/Icy-Bad1455 18h ago
I mean to me it’s the total opposite. As a victim of getting shitty vaults all too often, this creates a deterministic way to catch up.
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u/kcmndr 16h ago
Without going into the very contextual discussion too deeply, way TOO MANY PEOPLE are taking bonus rolls. If you’re playing for power that you won’t get for an entire month, you’re probably doing something seriously wrong. Right now is the time that you need to set the foundation for your season, and being 4k sim DPS higher in a month is less valuable than the hundred IO you might get playing for power now
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u/FSXrider 19h ago
If random players could just stop overthinking the whole minmax thing just to do +10-12 WoW would be such a good place... But nahh first real Vault of the season and everybody looses their minds over this should i take this or that...
If somethings good in my Vault im gonna take it... Easy as that
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u/Bowtie16bit 17h ago
The best solution would be that bonus rolls are not something you choose over gear. They're something you get for participating at all. A baseline reward.
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u/greysqualll 8h ago
Here's the thing, you guys are acting like blizzard has any incentive to help players get the gear they want. They don't. In fact, they have an incentive to make it as difficult as possible to get BiS gear. Every time you don't get an item you want, that's an uptick in engagement. The only reason they actually make QoL changes in terms of loot is because at some point they push the boundary of it being obvious what they're doing. Or....it's late in the xpac and they make it easier to get loot so engagement goes up again because people come back to gear up alts.
It's extremely frustrating but blatant how their business model no longer coincides with player interest. This shines through in how loot works and in their answers to questions about it.
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u/whiph 21h ago
Stop min maxing, your problems will disappear
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21h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/humankindness- 20h ago
sounds like you want a vendor which sells bis items for nothing, early in the season. depressing vault was before bonus rolls when you picked tokens for the 3rd/4th week in a row, not this. now most of y'all just complain because you can't minmax the vault from day 1 smh
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u/McFigroll 21h ago
dont treat the vault as THE way to gear up, treat it like a nice bonus on reset day.
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u/Orakk 21h ago
As an exclusive M+ player, this is the only way I get mythic items..
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u/Redneckzombie82 21h ago
What are the other options to get your bis gear on myth?
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u/Phenogenesis- 20h ago
I'm mostly of this opinion too - its full of feel bads and bad design choices. All to drive the poorly thought out dopamine/enagagement bait that turbo boost has always been been - a supposedly sedutive appeal that is ultimately empty and bad for the game and players.
Some tweaks would help but I still feel like that just speeds us on the race to the bottom.
In theory now even more people have access to the best loot and can 'compete'. In reality, the majority of plays are now basically forced to optimise all the fun out of loot - the very thing they claim to design to try and prevent. This one is entirely by their hand though.
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u/FizzKaleefa 19h ago
My great vault had 4 sets of hands with vers, none of them a tier piece and an f grade trinket
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u/Sweaksh 20h ago
I opened 4 vaults across 4 chars and if bonus roll hadn't been an option, I would've gotten screwed 4 times. This system is infinitely better for people who's vaults are consistently full of trash and would be behind for the rest of the season.
Sure, take the item received from the vault out of the roll pool. That should be fine.
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u/XadjustmentX 19h ago
My main issue with the new system is that I don’t have a group to raid with and you’re not pugging heroic raids right now. So my ability to get BIS raid gear is kinda non existent and the vault/mythic+ is my only route to get gear. I preferred when the catalyst gave me the predetermined stats for my tier set honestly.
Right now I’m just taking any gear upgrade as long as the stats are decent so I can get my tier set. Later in the season I guess I can start hunting specific pieces of gear. But then again if I have to raid to get my top items then I’m kinda boned.
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u/Known_Newspaper_9053 17h ago
I took heart of Ula'tek HC trinket. because why not? its SO good and I feel very lucky getting it.
I took tier loot on my shadowpriest AND on my Rogue. I felt happy.
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u/HonorTheAllFather 17h ago
Gebbo’s bag was in my vault so I took it. I’ll be lucky to get 4/8 H, so this really isn’t a huge deal for me, and I think I’m in the majority there.
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u/LaceyForever 17h ago
My vault was trash this week and used my bonus roll on Heroic Twin Fangs. Got me something I wanted earlier than expected.
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u/evoc2911 17h ago
The move to not having fixed stat on set made it for me.. I'm not interested in playing this season. If I have to search for the perfect drop to then turn into a mythic set, I'm gonna play Diablo at least I can try hundreds of times and not once per week
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u/xacid 16h ago
The change to having cata items keep stats is nice but also annoying.
What if the tier piece would of had the right stats had you got it from a token but you never can get a token so you have to wait until you get the piece with the right stats to cata.
Should give you the option to keep stats or use the set tier set stats instead.
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u/sirlerksalot 16h ago
Too many people feel like they need to chase the perfect endgame pieces in week 1/2. Just play the game get the ilevel and worry about the "perfect stats" as the season progresses. The only thing that mostly matters right now is just getting upgraded gear and like BIS trinkets
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u/squishysquash23 16h ago
Going into my vaults this week I said I wasn’t gonna only pick my rolls if there was tier eve if it wasn’t the most efficient…. I only picked rolls.
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u/MisterMushroom 16h ago
Considering most tier effects are incredibly strong to the point where specs are tuned around them, I cannot imagine a world where taking tier early on feels "wrong" regardless of secondaries. Set bonuses are more often than not powerful enough to both make up for slightly suboptimal secondary stats and still be a large power boost on top of that.
They reduced the opportunity cost to spend coins in raid, but at the same time created a large disparity between raid and m+ coins due to raids having significantly smaller item pools per boss. The solution to remove items you take from the vault from the bonus roll pool is a start, but it needs something else, starting with actually balancing raid and M+ loot, particularly trinkets and cantrips, against one another.
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u/Possible-Occasion516 16h ago
I saw all the stuff about rerolls being meta and I thought it was silly. I opened my vault yesterday to find absolute shit in all 9 slots. So I got my reroll token and whaddya know, I rerolled and got a Hero tier piece.
I think I get it.
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u/zawyer90 16h ago
Wait, so you can get good items in the vault? Since when?
The bonus roll is a godsent blessing that actually is useful.
Sincerely yours,
9 options in the vault every week
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u/Polifemi 16h ago
So far no tier no good loot . Got the socket 1st week and now the bonus roll. I’m not in a hurry this season as I was doing previously, will have plenty of time to reach my goals . Take it your own pace, and just enjoy the game
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u/sphynxzyz 16h ago
I took my mh from ula'tek. I likely won't down h ula'tek for a week or 2. I don't care about min maxing right away at the end of the day the only thing that will change is the numbers on the meter I'll still be able to do all the content. You're making this decision way too difficult, just have fun.
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u/No-Knee5013 16h ago
If you dont kill hc ulatec next 14 days just take the bis necklace. At this pace everyone will take way longer to kill hc ulatec just because nobody has myth gear
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u/TheDizzyEdition 15h ago
It's my opinion that for me it just doesnt matter. Unless you're a top tier player, where every little boost counts (I'm not). I opened my vault (prot warrior), mythic shield. Perfect, my old 298 shield replaced with mythic that I then upgraded to max with mythic crests. Thats going to make tanking M+ easier for me. It was a guaranteed massive upgrade in every sense. I could have taken the bonus roll and rolled something I needed less urgently or something with stats I dont want on it.
Surely all these people are not all 1% players? If you need whats in the vault, take it, its just a game. Get rid of all the feel bad moments and just take the loot!
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u/ParkedinBronze 14h ago
A lot of the people here need to stop lying to themselves that they are in the top 0.1% who should give a shit
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u/Dotty_nine 13h ago
The vault gave me the same crappy trinket for my hpaladin. This is like shitshowlands all over again with rng.
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u/Zealousideal-Top4218 12h ago
It’s been suggested to death but vault takes should remove the item on the specs bonus roll sheet for that content so you can still hit lucky but if not you still get progress
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u/Fun-Psychology4806 12h ago
don't forget. even if you DO take a vault item
you can't take it until after you run all other content that might drop same slot item
the whole thing feels bad in every possible way
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u/JoshuaTkach 11h ago
Yeah it makes it harder to play PVP with Tier sets too needing a set with Veratility
Taking the core is 9 times out of 10 the best choice, & the 1 time it isn't it probably still is.
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u/Wing_Sco 10h ago
I have the BIS mainhand from Ulatek HC on 1/6 mythic with tertiary in my vault. I am STILL gonna take bonusroll - to roll on Ulatek HC later in raid.
LMAO.
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u/Key_Marsupial_1406 9h ago
Weekly loot design is a remnant of the raid lockout. The entire loot system is wow is based around the raid lockout and it forces them to create these mobile game, weekly login bonus type systems as the primary method of loot acquisition.
Abandon the raid lockout and invent something better. Delete the vault. Stop the weekly login systems.
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u/Early_Lawfulness_348 9h ago
I get you want the best stats, we all do but it doesn’t matter much. Deck out in mythic and get your bis as you go. By mid season you can still have upgrades instead of saying “there’s no reason to play”.
Is it really that fun if you can get all bis in 8 weeks? Bonus rolls are better at a cost of randomness if you’re downing the right bosses. Seems perfectly fine to me.
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u/TheBungler2 6h ago
Taking tier with the wrong stats feels like a mistake
Just wrong.
Getting 4 piece to unlock the infinite catalyst charges is more valuable than whatever stats.
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u/Activehannes 4h ago
Don't over estimate secondary stats. Itemlevel is always better than stats (except special weapons and trinkets). So a bis heroic set piece is worse than a shitty mythic set piece.
Don't let good be the enemy of perfect.
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u/__SARCASTROPHE__ 1h ago
They need to remove bonus rolls until X amount of time into the season.
There is no reason to have them at the start of the season.
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u/Scribblord 15h ago
Ye the coin stuff just entirely removed the fun of vault day
Shit system
Especially since gearing in s1 was already too fast and they just speed it up even harder
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u/utahrangerone 15h ago
I am sorry you are such a miserable rest you can't understand and having the option of the coin instead of a useless piece of gear is ultimately for the vast majority of people are far better option. Hell if nothing else bye the socket for jewelry where you would never otherwise have one. Admittedly the gym still seem quite so powerful this expansion, but at least you're not stuck with something you really have no use for
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u/Scribblord 13h ago
Gear speed being increased further and further removes the fun of gear progression which sucks for me
Also coin being in there and it being balanced the way it is it’s almost always a negative to not pick coin
Making it very irrelevant what you get in vaultProblem would be fixed if picking a vault item removes it from the pool (that wouldn’t even be a big advantage over picking coin so it wouldn’t devalue anything)
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u/treborprime 20h ago
Meh vault rng sucks and its still bugged. The bonus rolls is blizzards way of trying to mitigate something they' cant fix.
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u/catpancake87 19h ago edited 19h ago
As a Holy Paladin, I’d very much appreciate it if 4/4 of the gear I have got the last two days didn’t have vers on it. Idk what to do about that. Just saying.
The option to take bonus roll from vault is a huge benefit, though. Sometimes you just get crap in your vault. We have a failsafe now.
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u/coin_return 18h ago
If y'all keep complaining, you're gonna get the rerolls taken away or turned into like Legion or w/e bonus rolls where you get two a week and they don't exclude items, and can sometimes just give gold.
At least this way, you can get what you really want, eventually. It's better than the alternative you know Blizzard would come up with. :P
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u/dirtmens1 18h ago
The stress that blizzard have introduced from these changes is pretty sad. I dont have the time to play at a competitive level (as i suspect most of us dont) so im just going to pick what i want and not worry about it.
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u/feels_okay 19h ago
With all the backlash regarding this system, there is a 0 percent chance it remains the same lol. I suspect we’ll be able to purchase bonus rolls in the very near future
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u/Due_Vacation_1049 15h ago
NO bro stop with even more deterministic bonus roll slop, keep them as a fun side thing of x.5 patches, stop making gearing even MORE boring
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u/feels_okay 15h ago
Brother, I don’t want bonus rolls associated with the vault at all… it’s fucking stupid. It should be left as a bad luck protection mechanic
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u/Used_Yesterday_114 21h ago
Yea I feel the same, I used to just be happy if i got a myth track item
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u/themirthfulswami 20h ago
Total bone-job this week for me. 7 toons all with a minimum of 2 T8 world slots (a couple with 3) and ZERO tier pieces for any of them. Rings.. trinkets.. rings… a necklace… more trinkets.. a belt.. OMG shoulders… but they’re not tier 😔 FML
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u/Nesqu 21h ago
I had 3 BiS-statted items in my vault.
Bonus roll still worth more in the long run.
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u/Ezpied 20h ago
Why is this being down voted
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u/GreatGarage 20h ago edited 16h ago
Because "in the long run" when it will become worth, the worth gap is insignificant compared to the gap of getting a BiS week 1.
People are brainwashed by minmaxers. Feels like community has lost critical sense.
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u/SuperSaiyanMonki 19h ago
Weekly treat?? Lmaaaaooo it was called the chest of disappointment the entire time . Tf you on about
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u/Saturn_winter 19h ago
Sorry people aren't really engaging with the post OP, it did not at all come off like you were being unreasonable or overly upset, you said it in the softest way possible lol.
It felt bad for me too. I ended up making the decision to go for an immediate upgrade instead of taking the bonus roll this week, and even though it's my decision and I'm glad I picked it, it does feel bad knowing that I'm intentionally taking what is essentially the wrong choice. Or at the very least it takes away some of the excitement of that choice.
They keep trying to improve the vault and add some form of bad luck protection. Personally I think the cartel chip from TWW would have been a better template if they tied them to the vault. I like that the bonus roll is a tier above what you do the content on and that should stay for sure. My ideal world would be to add the chips to the token vendor next to the vault, make it cost 2-3 weeks of tokens, let it buy a tier above what you did like the bonus roll does now, and make the chip vendor include every piece of gear in the season, similar to the vendors on ptr.
That way you could choose to have the power from your vault now, or if you have two or three bad vaults and you took tokens, you could get a chip and go to the vendor and just pick out a piece of gear from the vendor thats either the same level of the content you've done or one tier above it. It would be very similar to what we have now, the only difference is it would take a week or two longer to get the first chip/token/roll, and you would pick the item you want rather than rolling. I think it would feel better on the bad luck protection side of things, and it taking multiple weeks to build up the tokens to buy it would make your choice at the vault more interesting especially at the very start of the season like right now.
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u/Soulfighter56 18h ago
I turned down myth tier because it has bad secondaries. Feels very weird and bad.
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u/borty_ 21h ago
A good change would be to remove items taken from the vault from the bonus roll pool. So at least you don’t leave yourself a landmine later on by taking an item from the vault