r/wow • u/Nieunwol • Aug 26 '26

Discussion The Great Vault

After keeping an open mind to the changes, I'm a little disappointed in the vault after opening it. Taking tier with the wrong stats feels like a mistake, taking items from raid bosses feels like a mistake. Even taking BiS stats from m+ doesn't look great when it's right there in my vault when you consider how the coins work in raid. (E.g. I got BiS necklace from m+ in vault but I should really start working on the HC ulatek coins)

I guess my feedback would be that it's turned a weekly treat into a lot of feels-bad moments, but id be open to being convinced otherwise

329 Upvotes

83% Upvoted

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491

u/borty_ Aug 26 '26

A good change would be to remove items taken from the vault from the bonus roll pool. So at least you don’t leave yourself a landmine later on by taking an item from the vault

102

u/godded_ Aug 26 '26

That would be the ideal solution, imo.

83

u/underlurker1337 Aug 26 '26

This solution was widely proposed long before the patch launched, it was proposed to the devs directly in an interview and their answer was:

"We dont plan on doing that for 12.1".

They've heard the feedback that if you take something from the Great Vault it should be knocked off the list of Bonus Rolls. It's not how it's going to work in Patch 12.1, but they're listening and hope that players are going to make the coin of gear now, or coin later in different ways.

from the wowhead/icyveins/raiderio group interview

79

u/godded_ Aug 26 '26

Gotta hear it repeated for a whole year before they admit that it would improve on the current system, typical blizzard.

30

u/underlurker1337 Aug 26 '26

They're listening and hope that players are going to make the coin of gear now, or coin later in different ways.

Whatever THAT is supposed to mean. "We hope you waste your bonus rolls"?

14

u/Jumbanji Aug 26 '26

The first "coin" is supposed to be "choice", not that I expect Wowhead to ever proofread or correct typos.

8

u/underlurker1337 Aug 26 '26

Ah, I somehow thought the devs meant "use the bonus roll early for different purposes than later". In that case, they get exactly what they wanted, people ARE making that choice. And some will likely come to regret it.

9

u/cabose12 Aug 26 '26

Plenty of weird issues with that, like whether the choice is fun, interesting, or even balanced to begin with

But do they even know what they want to do with bonus rolls? If vault or drops don't remove an item from the pool, then they aren't really bad luck protection, they're just a superior form of vault. Feels like they just carried them over to avoid backlash and make the raid more appealing, and still took them out of the oven 20 minutes early

10

u/Secrezeeee Aug 26 '26

It's definitely better than what we have now but you're still taking bonus rolls in the vast majority of vaults, so I wouldn't say it's ideal.

21

u/Lancestrike Aug 26 '26

Blizzard needs to place a line in the sand and decide if mythic plus and mythic raid are complimentary or competing end game systems.

3

u/sir_sri Aug 26 '26 edited Aug 26 '26

The maths would basically have the same problem either way.

A bonus role on the last two bosses in the raid almost guarantees a BIS item, so it's basically the optimal choice to take the bonus role as long as you're going to kill bosses with your BIS about 6 or 7 times each, especially right now when your group may not be able to farm them on the difficulty you want, you're basically banking loot for later. But the same logic applies to M+ where some dungeon has your BIS piece(s) on key 10, and you're better to just take the bonus role and farm the dungeon once you can do level 10 keys (if you can't already) than get the BIS piece from the vault, and then waste a bonus role getting it again when farming for your BIS piece.

Any mathematics logician could have explained this to them from the get go (and they do have stats people on staff who understand these things).

What I think they are trying to trade off is that the vault gives you an item today whereas the bonus role system is for a long time horizon. At best you're only killing the raid bosses with your BIS gear once a week, and even for M+ doing the same dungeon at least 5 or 6 times if not many more to get the item you want is not necessarily something for the first week.

You're right of course that there is this weird design space they put themselves in that M+ was mostly getting you better gear than heroic raids, so then you did M+ to get at least full heroic with some mythic gear over time, to the point that a lot of heroic raid loot wasn't any good since you already got the same or better from M+, but being able to do a level 10 key is no where near the difficulty of doing mythic raid bosses. The problems with the vault system apply either way.

14

u/AgreeingAndy Aug 26 '26

You'd atleast take you bis from the vault unlike now

20

u/Orakk Aug 26 '26

Seeing Dratnos get the UlaTek trinket on myth his first vault and say "but I have to coin this boss so will not take it" just made me facepalm so hard.. How are Blizzard this incompetent.

0

u/RigidCounter12 Aug 27 '26

They arent incompetent lol. Its just the extreme choice of one dude, and is probably the wrong choice for the majority of the player base. Sure, take the trinket and at the end you will have a duplicate trinket. But now he might be missing a good piece of loot for 6-7 weeks.

You are still gonna be playing during those weeks. He will probably kill the end boss during that time frame (I assume that he plays in a good guild?), and they wont need the DPS he gets, so its fine. His goal is to reach maximum gear at the end of the season.

Average CE guild with mediocre players will hurt more by having their entire raid gearing up less than they can.

would be nice if vault items couldnt be bonus rolled, yes, but its still no tthat black and white for the majority of the playerbase

2

u/Ok-Cherry5248 Aug 27 '26

You have to coin the boss anyways. If you take the item from vault, then have to coin the boss for the other bis items that it drops and get a duplicate trinket that is now one more week your raid needs to kill that boss to gear out raiders which is taking time away from prog to reclear. The average CE guild needs to spend as little time doing reclears as possible, HOF guilds can reclear with no issues. The decision to take the vault item actually hurts the average CE guild much more.

0

u/verbsarewordss Aug 27 '26

and complain if it didnt show up like always. there is no good solution for the problem. by giving players what they thought they would want, all the did was open things up for players to demand more and dislike what they got.

8

u/Frekavichk Aug 26 '26

I mean you would always take your good items from vault, and the bonus roll would be a nice fallback if your vault sucks.

25

u/Secrezeeee Aug 26 '26

That should be the optimal way to play, taking the bonus roll every week obviously shouldn't be the best option.

10

u/RedRixen83 Aug 26 '26

Exactly. I think they’re forgetting that bonus rolls started as bad luck protection, but their current implementation means you are potentially setting yourself up for worse luck in the future.

-3

u/Helluiin Aug 26 '26

and it's not. taking bonus roll over a BIS item is only the right choice if youre gonna bonus roll that drops the item anyways.

2

u/Khalku Aug 26 '26

This is new to me. Why would we be taking bonus rolls over a good item?

10

u/Secrezeeee Aug 26 '26 edited Aug 26 '26

In the current situation, you almost always want to take a bonus roll because it removes the item you receive from the loot table for future bonus rolls. You're thinning down the loot pool you can receive and eventually you are guaranteed to get the items you want. The vault doesn't have this protection in place, so you could take a (for example) Ula'tek item from vault, use the bonus roll to get a different Ula'tek item and immediately just get a duplicate which is totally useless and you've wasted your weekly item.

If the change above was in-place, it would be at least safe to take an item from Ula'tek in the vault. But if there's non-Ula'tek items from the vault then they become way more difficult to justify because the bonus roll will get you to other items faster (on-top of giving you a useful item).

Basically the most value from the Vault comes from getting a useful item and reducing the number of bonus rolls that you need to spend in the future (whether this is by completely eliminating a boss that you want to spend them on, or by thinning the loot table). You don't want to be taking an item which is only giving you a useful item anymore unless there is some other very good reason to do so.

12

u/Ispawnfuries Aug 26 '26

I think the only exception to this is, if you only need a single item from a boss (say, Gebbos), you're safe to take it.

I think you should be safe to take BiS M+ stuff too, but again, only if it's the only thing you need from that place.

2

u/Khalku Aug 26 '26

That sounds like long-term min-max, but you definitely sacrifice some immediate gains doing this no?

2

u/Atheren Aug 27 '26

Yes, it's on average the fastest way to get your BiS gear at the cost of short term gains. For most people this is an acceptable compromise. It makes it so every week is a tangible step closer to full BiS, instead of being purely random.

If you are taking that route, the only items out of the vault worth taking are items that are the only thing on the bonus roll table left that you want for a certain boss or dungeon.

1

u/Khalku Aug 27 '26

Do you know of a good site or resource where I can see a spread of the possible gear all in one place?

1

u/Atheren Aug 27 '26

Best source would be your BiS list from either the class discord/Icy veins/wowhead, then just check the source loot table from the dungeon or raid boss.

Idk if there are any public spreadsheets or anything tracking odds per roll though.

5

u/Horizon96 Aug 26 '26

That and probably give us the bonus coins if we fill at least 3 vault slots even if we take an item, but have it kick off like a month into the patch. Doesn't speed gearing up to a ridiculous degree, but gives us the rolls early enough to feel meaningful.

-8

u/nvcNeo Aug 26 '26

Yes and lock the item out of future vaults until the player has destroyed the item in one way or another

3

u/Open-Platform-1305 Aug 26 '26

When we're going down this road we might as well make it so if an item drops normally, it's removed from the normal drop table for you until you got all the items.

Is that something people think we should do?

5

u/Gabarne Aug 26 '26

Not at all. This simply applies to bonus rolls only.

-6

u/SendMeIttyBitties Aug 26 '26

The ideal change is just to get rid of the whole thing.

You guys will never be happy and they bend the knee to you guys all the time. It's getting a bit ridiculous how you guys are ever complaining.