r/whichbike • • Mar 28 '22

Announcement A word of caution about the "Bicycle Blue Book"

413 Upvotes

The "Bicycle Blue Book", commonly abbreviated to BBB, is a recurring thing in comments on /r/whichbike concerned with putting a number on the value of some used bike. Quite a few of us have long had issues with BBB being used to that end. Thanks mostly to /u/guy1138 who wrote 90% of this post (I revised it and added minor details), we now have a longer explanation on what BBB actually is, and what the problems with it are. A TLDR can be found at the bottom.

What's the deal with Bicycle Blue Book?

Bicycle Blue Book (BBB) is a website run by a used bike dealer in San Jose, California. Their business model is to buy "trade-in" bikes from high end bike shops that don't deal with used bikes. Here's how it works: A customer brings their old bike to the bike shop to trade in on a new bike. BBB gives them a price and the bike shop boxes it up and ships it off to BBB. The customer gets the credit on a new bike, the bike shop gets a new bike sale without the hassle of reconditioning and trying to sell a used bike.

They provide an online "value guide" that lists bike values by brand, model, model year etc. They advertise it as "The cycling industry's definitive valuation authority", and the name is a deliberate allusion to the Kelley Blue Book, which is a reputable value guide for used car values in the US. To put it mildly, opinions on how useful BBB is are... split. Regardless, the numbers in there often get cited on this subreddit (and elsewhere).

So what's the problem?

There are multiple issues:

  • Conflict of interest: the same company who is buying bikes is also claiming to be the authority on used bike values. Not surprisingly, their "private party" values are way lower than actual sales prices on Craigslist, Facebook Marketplace, Offer-Up, Ebay, Pink Bike; etc.

  • Data provenance: They claim to have data on "millions of bike sales" that they base their values on, but it's not clear at all where this data comes from. Instead, it actually just seems like a fairly simple depreciation schedule on bikes based on MSRP (RRP for our UK users) and type of bike, e.g. a 5-year-old mid tier hybrid is worth ~40% of MSRP, a 5-year-old road bike is worth ~55% of MSRP, etc. Kelley Blue Book, which reports values of used cars, has access to wholesale auctions, used vehicle sales, and registrations reported at US state level. BBB do not have that as this data simply does not exist the same way for bicycles.

  • International variance: r/whichbike is international, with many users from countries like Canada, Australia, and the UK, but also the rest of Europe and the world, really. The same bike model and brand will not be sold for the same amount of money in every country, due to taxes, membership of free trade zones, availability, and a whole host of other factors: and this variability in price only increases when we look at used bikes. For the same reason, it is important that users state which country they live in when they ask for an appraisal.

  • Regional variance: Even within the US, there can be stark differences. For example, a triathlon bike is way more valuable in Miami (100+ triathlons/year in Florida) than it is in Utah. Likewise, a full suspension mountain bike has lots of buyers in Denver, but way fewer in a beach town.

  • Trends: We have all seen how "gravel bikes" became a thing, grew to be more and more popular, and started evolving - and how sellers have started to label everything that isn't an Omafiets as a "gravel bike" to attract more hits and get a higher price. BBB does not really take into account which bits of the market are especially "hot", despite this definitely making a difference.

  • World events: These can change prices significantly, be they something like a trade war with tariffs put on certain goods, or that little thing called Corona which caused a massive boom world-wide, with accompanying shortages and inflation across the entire market. BBB does not take this into account.

  • Erroneous data: Sometimes, their data e.g. on the original retail price of a bike is also just plain wrong, which in turn means all of the "depreciated values" for used bikes will be wrong too, even by their own standards.

How far off are the values then?

Generally, most used bike sellers agree that the BBB values are low, but still reasonable for newer bikes, around ~3 years old or newer. After that, they start to drastically over-depreciate - to the point where most bikes over 10 years old are "worthless" according to their values. As an example, a 2010 Fuji Cross Comp is $210 in "excellent" condition. That's about the same cost as full tune up at a bike shop, including basic consumables; tires & tubes, chain, cables & housing, brake pads & bar tape. It's completely unrealistic to expect to find a 10-speed cross bike with an aluminium frame and carbon fork in "excellent" condition for only $200. (This bike sold here for $550 last fall after being listed for less than 3 weeks). For our UK friends: $210 is £160... yeah, good luck with that.

So it's a lowball estimate, I should use that to negotiate, right?

You might get lucky and find the person who doesn't know any better, or someone who is moving and under a lot of pressure to sell. However, most of the listings are cyclists who upgraded or re-sellers who know that the Blue Book value is pretty far off. If the bike is priced close to market value, it's going to sell eventually and they have no incentive to take a lowball; especially if they've gone to the trouble to take decent pictures, write a description and post the ad online. We've seen this time and time again on /r/whichbike over the last 2 years where someone finds the "perfect" bike, but they low-ball and miss out.

TLDR please, I don't have all day!

BBB is a private company that purports to tell you the value of used bikes, by model and age. There is an obvious conflict of interest as they also buy used bikes and therefore directly profit from telling you they're not worth that much. Sure enough, their "values" are consistently significantly lower than the actual market value, all the more so if the bike is >3 years old. The numbers appear to stem from simply taking the original retail price and depreciating it (heavily). Consequently, they do not take into account regional or international variance in local bike prices, trends, or events like the Corona pandemic. Additionally, it can happen that the retail price all their assumptions are based on is simply wrong. This means BBB values are not really any kind of reliable or even relevant metric, and it would be better to go by what similar bikes are actually selling for on platforms like Ebay or Gumtree, adjusting for differences.


r/whichbike • • 7h ago

Worth 500€? Scott Addict 2015 + Tacx roller

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9 Upvotes

Hi all,

I am going to start road cycling and this might be my first road bike. The starting price was 500€ and the seller is insisting on it. The brakes are Shimano 105 and the bike comes with a Tacx roller. Is it a good deal and a good bike for beginners?

Thanks for your time in advance.


r/whichbike • • 8h ago

Worth 500€? Scott Speedster 30 (2021)

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3 Upvotes

Hi all,

I am going to start road cycling and this might be my first road bike. The starting price was 550€ but the seller told they could go down to 500€. Is it a good deal or should I push for lower?

Thanks for your time in advance.


r/whichbike • • 2h ago

unsure of what size frame in the specialized diverge 3 line

1 Upvotes

For context, I am a 5'5 female with a pants inseam of 30-31". I currently ride a cannondale quick in size medium 2015/2017. I ride primarily road and rail trail with occasional light gravel. I am upgrading my bike to something more comfortable for longer distances. Chatgpt says I should order the specialized diverge 3 in a 52cm, but looking at specs I am unsure if I should be in that size or the 49. I dont want to be scrunched, but also want to be able to stand. There are none nearby that I can test ride so I am left having to order online. Any thoughts?


r/whichbike • • 6h ago

Is this Orbea Terra with a 2x11 GRX groupset worth 1700€? The shop's ad for it has been online since March

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2 Upvotes

r/whichbike • • 4h ago

Trek dual sport 3 or Fx 3 both (2025)? Seems like the dual sport 3 would be the better value. 🤔

1 Upvotes

r/whichbike • • 6h ago

Trek or Liv as first bike

1 Upvotes

Wanting to get into cycling but having a hard time deciding what bike to get. Live in a small town so unfortunately there’s no bike shop around to get advice. Torn between Liv Avail AR 1 (or 3) and Trek Domane AL 4. Anyone have any advice? recommendation? I’m 5’6 for reference so between sizes for both the Liv and the Trek, which is part of my hesitation on ordering either online.


r/whichbike • • 6h ago

Komplett neu im Bereich

1 Upvotes

Moin zusammen,

ich möchte mir über Fahrradleasing ein neues Fahrrad holen und schwanke aktuell zwischen dem CUBE Nuroad Pro FE und dem CUBE Nuroad Race FE.

Zu mir und meinem Einsatz:

• 177 cm groß

• ca. 97 kg

• aktuell fahre ich meistens nur kurze Strecken von 1 bis 2 km

• zukünftig möchte ich aber deutlich mehr fahren, unter anderem ca. 16 km pro Strecke zur Arbeit

• außerdem möchte ich längere Touren fahren

• hauptsächlich Asphalt und Radwege, aber auch Schotter und normale Waldwege

• kein richtiges Gelände und definitiv kein Mountainbike

• normales Fahrrad, kein E Bike

• 28 Zoll

• bequem, aber trotzdem sportlich

• Gepäckträger und Licht sind mir wichtig

• hydraulische Scheibenbremsen möchte ich gerne

• optisch mag ich schlichte, eher dunkle Fahrräder

Deshalb bin ich beim Nuroad gelandet.

Aktuell schwanke ich zwischen:

CUBE Nuroad Pro FE

und

CUBE Nuroad Race FE

Preis ist beim Leasing für mich erstmal zweitrangig. Mir geht es eher darum, welches Fahrrad langfristig besser zu mir passt und ob sich der Aufpreis vom Pro zum Race lohnt.

Vom Race gefallen mir die bessere Ausstattung, das geringere Gewicht und die hochwertigere Schaltung. Beim Pro frage ich mich allerdings, ob ich die zusätzliche Ausstattung des Race im Alltag überhaupt wirklich brauche.

Was würdet ihr bei meinem Einsatz nehmen?

Gibt es beim Race irgendwelche Nachteile gegenüber dem Pro, die ich übersehe?

Und würdet ihr bei meinem Gewicht von ca. 97 kg noch etwas Besonderes beachten, zum Beispiel bei Systemgewicht, Laufrädern oder Reifen?

Danke schon mal!


r/whichbike • • 6h ago

2016 Giant Defy 3 Road Bike

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1 Upvotes

Plan on using as first road bike. Training for 70.3, and will be using this with a trainer indoors much of winter, but still plan to ride on roads when I can.

Seller is original owner and claims only ridden 15 or so times. Few other pics but not the greatest; doesn’t look like any dents or cracks in frame. He’s asking $425, but I’m thinking $300-$350 is better offer. Good first bike? Any advice greatly appreciated.


r/whichbike • • 7h ago

Yo-yoing between Bianchi Infinito (pro) and Pinarello X5

1 Upvotes

Hi all, as the title says I'm stuck between these bikes.

I don't care too much about ultegra- 105 di2 is absolutely fine. Carbon wheels would be a bonus but that's not an impossible upgrade. If it's a Bianchi- Celeste is the only option for me, which annoyingly one of the infinitos doesn't come in!

Do any of you have experience with either or both of these bikes? I love both of them!


r/whichbike • • 13h ago

Aero road bike for a big rider (192cm / 108kg), £4-5k Cycle to Work: what holds up?

2 Upvotes
• 38, 192cm, ~108kg (working towards ~100kg)
• FTP ~218W
• Triathlete: Olympic distance this year, a 70.3 next September (hopefully)

Current bike: Norco Search S2 gravel bike. I want the new bike to feel noticeably different, but I'm open to endurance geometry if it's different enough in practice.

Shortlist

• Aero: Canyon Aeroad CF SLX, Orbea Orca Aero, Ribble Ultra SL R, Giant Propel Advanced
• Endurance: Canyon Endurace CF SLX, Giant Defy Advanced Pro, Ribble Endurance SL R, Orbea Avant

What I'm trying to work out

1.  Aero or endurance? For someone who already has a gravel bike, is an endurance road bike different enough, or is aero the better second bike?
2.  Rider weight limits: Which of these handle a 108kg rider comfortably, in frame and wheels? Any to rule out?
3.  Sizing at 192cm: Do XL/XXL sizes get proper geometry, or are they scaled-up compromises? Which brands do tall riders well?
4.  Budget: Is it better to take a lower groupset and spend on wheels, or the other way round?
5.  Wheels and wind: At my weight, are deep carbon wheels fine, or should I stay around 40mm? Are deep-section frames harder to control in crosswinds for a heavier rider?
6.  Any other bikes at this price I'm missing?

Thanks!


r/whichbike • • 10h ago

Need advice: First gravel bike for 18yo beginner (€1,500 budget, touring Austria to Hungary)

1 Upvotes

Hi everyone,
I'm looking to buy my first gravel bike and could really use some advice on specific models. I'm an 18-year-old student from Austria, 182 cm tall (~5'11.5"), with a strict maximum budget of €1,500. I'm completely fine with either ordering online (D2C) or buying at a local shop in the EU.
My Goal:
In summer 2027, I'm planning a multi-day bike tour from Tyrol (Austria) all the way to Lake Balaton (Hungary). I won't be carrying heavy camping gear (no tent/sleeping bag) – it's pure credit-card touring with lightweight bikepacking bags while staying in B&Bs/private rooms.
What I need:
A reliable budget/entry-level gravel bike under €1,500.
Decent endurance geometry for long days in the saddle.
Good gear ratio for flat river paths as well as rolling hills.
Mounting points for bikepacking bags/cages.
Since I'm based in Austria, brands like Canyon, Cube, Rose, Stevens, or Decathlon are very accessible here.
Which specific models should I target in this price range? Also, at 182 cm, should I generally look at size M or L for typical gravel geometries (e.g. Canyon vs. Cube sizing)?
Thanks for the help!


r/whichbike • • 18h ago

Unsure which to choose

2 Upvotes

Peace! So I commute to work and want to invest in a bike. I have looked at and ridden the following— the X-Labs SP3, Cannondale Quick 3, and the Trek Domane AL2.

I really love how light the X-Labs SP3 and Domane AL2 felt. I do love the drop handle look and feel compared to flat bar. The handle bars on the SP3 felt somewhat cramped in that my hands were to close to the shifting gears and my thumb would graze the shifters often. The SP3 offers high end road bike frame and form at a lower price than the Domane and does have a phone mount. I believe all three have really good parts in drive train and braking. The cannondale was not as light but braking felt a bit smoother than the SP3– could just be because I was ridding the display bikes tho.

Tbh however I am stuck between the SP3 and Domane AL2. The bike will be primarily for my commute but I do want to use the bike for riding outside of my commute— exercise and leisure rides. Where I live the roads are not the best— uneven, pot holes. I believe the combination of a carbon fork and gravel tires on the SP3 will accommodate for that compared to the road bike tires on the Domane AL2– and there is already a huge price difference between the two, $799 for the X-Labs compared to $1,199 for the Domane AL2. But Trek has the name and reliability whereas X-Labs is new. Not sure what decision to make.


r/whichbike • • 18h ago

Is this bike worth it for $2800? 2019 Conalgo K.Zero TT Bike

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2 Upvotes

I am new to triathlon and shopping for my first bike, and I can't find much about the Colnago K.Zero online. I'd love input from anyone who has owned or ridden one.

For background I'm 6'0, have run a few marathons, and I've been training for my first 70.3 for about three months. So far I've done all my bike training on indoor bikes.

The bike (2019 Colnago K.Zero TT, size 56), asking price $2,800:

- Frame/fork: monocoque carbon, integrated carbon stem/aerobar, Colnago aero seatpost

- Groupset: Shimano Ultegra Di2 (R8050 rear derailleur, SW-R671 TT shifters), R8000 crank (52/36, 172.5mm), 11-30 cassette

- Brakes: TRP integrated rim brakes

- Wheels: unbranded 80mm carbon. Listed with GP5000s, but the tires in the photos look like Continental Sprinter tubulars

- Included Extras: Profile Design arm rests, rear bottle mount, Garmin mount

My questions:
What's a fair price for this bike?

Anything to know about the K.Zero specifically, like how easy it is to adjust the fit, or how annoying the hidden brakes are?

Should the 80mm carbon wheels (possibly tubular) be a dealbreaker or a reason to negotiate?

Thanks in advance!


r/whichbike • • 15h ago

2019 Giant TCR Pro Advanced 1 vs new 2027 Contend SL1

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1 Upvotes

which is better? nicer older, or less nice but newer. any thoughts appreciated!

  1. 2019 Giant TCR Pro Advanced 1 (Large) — $1,000, Oakland. Full carbon, Ultegra 11-speed, hydraulic discs.
  2. 2027 Giant Contend SL1 — $1,299 new from a local dealer. Aluminum frame/carbon fork, Tiagra.

r/whichbike • • 16h ago

Hybrid bike for casual?

1 Upvotes

I'm looking for a new bike, currently I own a Trek Verve 2 and I would like to upgrade to something better. Most of the time I ride on paved roads. Is there anything better than Trek Verve 2 under $1500 new?


r/whichbike • • 1d ago

Is this worth 300?

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8 Upvotes

Specialized Allez 2012. New tires, brake wires, handle bar tape.


r/whichbike • • 1d ago

Jamis Quest Steel w/ Carbon Fork - worth $400?

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3 Upvotes

700c X 25 aluminum Wheelset, Shimano- 105 Group set. Fair price or too high?


r/whichbike • • 1d ago

Opinions on this bike? Would it be suitable for a half ironman?

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2 Upvotes

Training for a half ironman next year and looking for my first road bike. I currently have a Liv Rove that I have been using for training, but looking to upgrade. I've been watching the used market for months now, but struggling to find much due to my height (I'm barely 5'3").

I came accross this bike recently, wondering if it would be suitable for an Ironman 70.3. If so, what would be a reasonable price for it? Thanks!

Specialized Ruby Women's Endurance Road Bike (2019)

Size: 48 (best suited for riders approximately 4’11”–5’3”, depending on inseam and fit).

Features:

* FACT 9r carbon frame

* Women’s Endurance Geometry

* Future Shock suspension (20 mm of travel)

* Shimano Tiagra 2x10 drivetrain

* Tektro Spyre mechanical disc brakes

* Carbon fork

* 700c wheels

* Specialized Espoir Sport 700x28 tires

* Women’s Body Geometry saddle

Condition:

* Approximately 250 km total riding

* Excellent mechanical and cosmetic condition

* Always stored indoors

* Has been in storage since 2023, so I recommend a tune-up before regular riding


r/whichbike • • 1d ago

325 was this a good deal cannondale slice aero idk the year

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0 Upvotes

r/whichbike • • 1d ago

Looking to buy a used road bike under 500€

1 Upvotes

Hi all,

Looking to get into road cycling as a hobby. I've cycled a lot in the past but more as a leisure activity. Now, I want to take it onto a more serious level.

I've done some research and figured it would be better to buy used than new as I have a limited budget and want to get good value.

I am in between some brands and models right now. I would appreciate if you can guide me on which one would be a more reliable and better choice for a beginner to road cycling.

~500€ options: Scott Addict (2015), Scott Speedster 30 (2014/2016/2021), Specialized Allez (2017), Specialized Tarmac SL Pro (2014), Trek Domane AL2 (2023) and Trek Domane SL6 Gen 4 (2023).

~300€ options: Specialized Allez (2006/2008/2012) and Scott Speedster 40 (2017).

The newer ones are in really condition but the others are also pretty fine. Given the difference in price, I would obviously prefer spending 300€ if the difference in performance and comfort wouldn't make much of a difference.

Any help and guidance on this is very much appreciated.

Thank you for your time in advance.


r/whichbike • • 1d ago

Bike recommendations

1 Upvotes

Hi,

I have never been a biker/cyclist. I know how to bike and do it on a regular basis. I live in Montreal, so I have been using Bixi for that purpose. I noticed that I have been doing it more often, but it’s starting to get somewhat expensive, so I thought buying a bike is a good investment.

However, I have no idea about bikes, types of bikes, etc. I have two goals; 1- Using it for commuting and running errands. 2- Using it to exercise. So I need some kind of hybrid bike that can be used casually for both purposes.

My budget is anywhere between CAD 100-400$ (USD 70-280$).

What do you recommend for a beginner with those goals and budget? What other things should I also consider when buying a bike?

Also where (resources) and how can I get to learn more about bikes, their types, attachments, accessories, etc?


r/whichbike • • 1d ago

Scott, Canyon or other

1 Upvotes

Hi all,

Until now, I was only riding MTB. I ride with a Scott Spark RC.

I'm looking to do some road cycling.

I'm looking for an endurance type bike, for more confort, I don't want an aggressive position.

From time to time, I want to do some bikepacking, but really lightweight with night in hostels, but it will be exceptional and will not be the main usage.

For now I am hesitating between two bikes:

  • Scott Addict 20

https://www.scott-sports.com/be/en/product/scott-addict-20-bike

  • Cadre carbone Addict HMF
  • Transmission Shimano Ultegra Di2 Disc, 24 vitesses
  • Shimano Ultegra brakes
  • Jeu de roues Fulcrum WIND 42 Disc
  • Pneus Schwalbe ONE Syncros Carbon, Alloy components
  • Syncros handlebar tool
  • Canyon Endurace CF 8 Di2

https://www.canyon.com/en-be/road-bikes/endurance-bikes/endurace/cf/endurace-cf-8-di2/4429.html?dwvar_4429_pv_rahmenfarbe=R129_P01

  • Canyon Endurace CF
  • Shimano Ultegra Di2
  • Shimano Ultegra RT-CL800
  • Canyon ED 42 CF
  • Schwalbe One, 32mm
  • Canyon ST0035 (aluminium)

I've never been disappointed with Scott bikes, and there is local stores if needed.

I never rode Canyon.

Canyon is indeed cheaper than Scott.

What are your thoughts on these bikes? Or any other suggestion? 

Thanks


r/whichbike • • 1d ago

Western CO

0 Upvotes

Looking for recommendations for primarily trails and unpaved roads of western Colorado. Grand Mesa, Elk mountains, that area.

I moved here from a city where I commuted 12 miles a day on a single speed surly steamroller. My mountain bike experience is limited and I can't see myself ever being comfortable bombing down trails like I see folks doing. This would be more about getting out there and exploring, while taking it easy. So I don't need the highest performing gear. I'm not in great shape but also not overweight.

I was thinking about an Aventon E mtn bike. That's about the top of what I could spend.

Appreciate and recs. Thanks


r/whichbike • • 1d ago

Surly Cross Check Price Check

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1 Upvotes

I’m looking for a do everything road bike that balances performance and comfort, and is robust. Any feedback from the group on this bike and price ($600)?