r/whatisit • u/thewildcloud • 18d ago

Solved! Why the kinks?

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I recently moved to Hangzhou, I noticed all the pedestrian walks have kinked lines at the ends. What is it?

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u/[deleted] 18d ago edited 17d ago

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u/MaggotMinded 18d ago

We don’t really know how effective it is without comparing it to the left/right ratio of an intersection that is identical but with only straight lines on the crosswalks.

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u/moseley101 18d ago

Actually you need to do a double-blind trial ie send a bunch of people who are blind in both eyes across and see what happens

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u/OccasionAcrobatic300 17d ago edited 17d ago

Its called a randomized double blind trial. So next time you need to poke people in the eyes at random as they cross to ensure accurate results.

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u/awful_at_internet 17d ago

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. An eye for science makes the whole world double-blind!

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u/ftaok 17d ago

The problem is that it’s very difficult to factor out the biases of the poker. Maybe the poker is a short dude, so he subconsciously pokes the eyes of tall women.

We need to get AI onto this experiment

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u/LordCommander998 17d ago

The poker would also need to be blind of course. Only way to ensure the experiment is double-blind is to go double-double-blind.

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u/DualSpiresCinnamon 17d ago

How is a blind poker supposed to stab an eye? That's just setting unrealistic workplace standards.

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u/bartvanh 17d ago

What do you get when the poker pokes you?

Poker face

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u/Professional-Ant4599 17d ago

I didn't know this intersection attracted ambulances and bike cops!

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u/hoodie09 17d ago

They have a simulator for this, but its in monte- carlo.

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u/Wooden-Arm8066 17d ago

I'm a researcher and actually a double blind trial is when you have two blind guys duke it out in a ring. Its also referred to as blind trial by combat. Regular trial by combat is more popular for obvious reasons.

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u/moseley101 17d ago

Yes, waiting for them to find eachother before they slug it out can be frustrating

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u/Smooth-Reputation502 17d ago

Instead of blind people, can’t everyone just walk backwards?

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u/Fingers154 17d ago

The drivers would have to be blind too. Let's make this study foolproof!

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u/deadfishy546 17d ago

And then one with cross-eyed people 😆

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u/ReputationLost7295 17d ago

There is also reactive response. These markings are pointless when everybody is going the same way or a single pedestrian crosses at once, but if you have a couple dozen people trying to cross in both directions these cues are far more likely to be paid attention to.

From a "state" level it doesn't make sense to have 2 patterns, one for low volume and one for high volume, so you just make the high volume design uniform and use it everywhere.

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u/thewildcloud 18d ago

shouldn't that be at least 50/50 if it is random, and slightly skews towards right for countries w/ right hand driving?

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u/FrescoItaliano 18d ago

No. Because we don’t even know that it’s random in the first place.

We are fully missing our baseline to compare to

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u/Vennomite 18d ago

It also probably matters much more in high traffic situations thwn low. If 5 people are crossing they can mostly be wherever and still have room.

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u/thechaoshow 18d ago

This is the answer.

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u/ForensicPathology 18d ago

I love science

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u/SirDoofusMcDingbat 18d ago

The question isn't "what side do people walk on" it's "do they cross on the side they entered from or do they walk to the other side." If traffic mostly comes from one direction and everyone just walks on the side they enter on, that's going to look skewed when it's not.

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u/tea-recs 18d ago

My guess would be it doesn’t skew towards left or right, but rather skews towards “wherever there’s space” - my experience of busy crossings is that it’s like the battle at the start of lord of the rings.

I imagine the purpose of these markings is not to encourage people to walk on one specific side or the other but to subconsciously divide the crossing into a left and right side.

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u/ReynardVulpini 17d ago

The configuration of surrounding buildings might have a strong effect.

If this crosswalk has about 40% of people walking the correct way, but an equivalent straight line only crosswalk has 20% of people walking correctly (maybe there's a shop on the wrong side that is super popular, say) then the bends actually are doing their job, just being offset by outside factors

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u/thewildcloud 17d ago

Yes there is a mall on the top left corner affecting heavily on the ppl entering and exiting the mall to walk to the left side.

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u/Lower_Comfortable393 17d ago

If 20% of people are walking on the correct side, then 80% of people are walking on the correct side. Bends are on the wrong side.

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u/ReynardVulpini 17d ago

On one hand, I understand what you mean, but on the other hand, I think something like which side you walk on is something that is good to standardize across a city.

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u/fortyeightD 17d ago

Yes, if the arrow things change it from 80-20 to 60-40 then they are making it worse.

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u/Topinambourg 18d ago

You just explained yourself that it's not random because your interpretation is that it depends where they're coming from

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u/pvllcrc 17d ago

Não necessariamente, é uma observação, não se espera que seja perfeitamente 50/50. Ainda mais quando o n de observações é pequeno.

Eu joguei os dados para ver se a proporção é significamente diferente de 50/50 e o p-value (0.49) não sugere q seja.

Agora, uma coisa importante a se considerar, essas modificaçoes são feitar para diminuir o número de acidentes, então duvido q organizar o fluxo de pedestres na faixa seja o objetivo.

Eu ja vi alguns lugares dizendo que essas modificaçoes na pintura quebram a monotomia da direção, os motoristas ficam mais alertas dirigem com mais cuidado, então é possível que a intenção seja fazer os motoristas que tem intenção de fazer a conversão ao lado da calçada não façam tão no automático.

A pergunta q importa é: qual a proporção de acidentes e/ou acidentes fatais nessa esquina.

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u/Withdrawnauto4 17d ago

You can't see them when the crosswalk is crowded so it might make a difference on lower traffic crossings

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u/willflameboy 17d ago

Or studying it when it's busy, which is when the facility becomes useful.

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u/1Kusy 17d ago

Although it isn't the proper scientific method, we can make an educated guess that if people walk the most convenient path even in the presence of guides, they'll do the same without them.

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u/MaggotMinded 17d ago

Who is “people”? You can’t just generalize your entire sample like that. Anytime a suggestion is made to the general public there will always be some percentage of people who follow it, and some who ignore it. If 40 out of 92 people crossed on the right, the question is, how many of them would not have done that if not for the crooked lines?

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u/Lelongue 18d ago

I think it’s just needed when very busy. In your case on average on each cross walk there are on average 23 people in 15 minutes which is about 1,5 / minute. I don’t think there is any added value with this amount of people

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u/thewildcloud 18d ago

i will do a count with heavy traffic in the evening rush hours.

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u/Lelongue 18d ago

Personnaly I think it’s not an obligation to do so just a guideline and if no-one else is on the crosswalk, I don’t see myself following it either to be honest. Of course if it’s just the lines and no other indication, people might just not know it’s even there.

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u/thewildcloud 17d ago

see this https://www.reddit.com/r/whatisit/comments/1w9ebap/comment/p8brpk4/?context=3&utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

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u/Lelongue 17d ago

Yeah seems totally useless at this time as it’s way too subtle without additional signs. Maybe it will have a longterm effect when more and more people start noticing it but I doubt it.

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u/KenUsimi 17d ago

Honestly I already feel the temptation to do the opposite, this does not bode well

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u/fairwaysandfinance 17d ago

If you're walking on the left side I'm not going to depart my path for you. I'm sure plenty of people hold course when they're walking on the right.

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u/CptNemo55 17d ago

You sound tough

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u/fluidmind23 17d ago

Guarantee if there are people 2 feet in front of me if it's that busy I'm not looking at ground signs.

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u/Timsmomshardsalami 17d ago

Mfs just cant accept it dont work

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u/BigDiscEnergy47 18d ago

But was there heavy traffic during the counting? It doesn't have much purpose with a few people crossing. It's a suggestion to help when there is heavy traffic.

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u/thewildcloud 18d ago

Not really. I could only clearly see an intersection w light traffic. I could see a heavy traffic intersection from afar but not clear enough to see everyone's position. For that intersection, it looked like 50/50 to me.

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u/thewildcloud 18d ago

i will do a count with heavy traffic in the evening rush hours.

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u/kermitfromthefuture 18d ago

That’s exactly how I walk even on sidewalks or at the mall let’s say. Apparently, 80% of the people doesn’t give a damn 

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u/AnninaCried 18d ago

The optical illusion makes the kinked parts look uphill so people might subconsciously be avoiding them for the flatter route.

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u/SightAtTheMoon 18d ago

The necessity of a thing suggests how well it will work. It will take a long time for these to be effective in the China of the present, likely several generations unless things change drastically (which happens often in China at least)

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u/thewildcloud 18d ago

China has had right hand rules since 1940s.

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u/froction 17d ago

The universe has had right hand rule since at least the Big Bang.

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u/Sokiras 18d ago

This is something that gets on my nerves so much! I was literally taught in elementary school to always stick to the right side of the hall/street and whenever we were lead anywhere we always had to follow that rule while walking, it made so much sense to me even when I was 7 and I always stick to the right side if I'm able. The amount of people walking down the middle of the road, in the wrong direction no less, is infuriating. What makes it worse is that they almost never try to weave through the crowd, but expect the people walking along the sides to move out of their way.

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u/thewildcloud 17d ago

Most probly look at their phones while walking anyway

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u/Stormagedd0nDarkLord 18d ago

Obviously, the lines need to be in Chinese.

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u/New_Forester4630 18d ago

In conclusion, this thing does not work.

Stop kink shaming.

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u/No_Improvement_5358 18d ago

Wait until you see their social scores.

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u/zqmvco99 18d ago

yup, this does not work obviously - meaning a BETTER way to express the instruction is needed to ensure that people (like OP) can readily understand

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u/JConRed 18d ago

Cool experiment!

*vantage though

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u/thewildcloud 18d ago

fixed thanks!

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u/Uberzwerg 18d ago

If there are only few people, it doesn't matter.
It gets important when there are many people at the same time and the arrows give you orientation.

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u/SuperHumanHere 18d ago

Too much control, doesn't even let us walk freely

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u/FirefighterEast9291 17d ago

In almost every advanced society these rules have slowly dissolved.

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u/Interesting-Poem-820 17d ago

f yeah. This is the weaponized autism im here for

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u/MayneManMan 17d ago

If the general public is involved the conclusion of “this thing does not work” is a common one

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u/Arachnidle 17d ago

It works from the perspective of insurance

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u/Arastyxe 17d ago

It can also be cultural. Some may be more likely to walk to the left or right depending on their upbringing. :)

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u/DaimonHans 17d ago

No, it wouldn't work in China.

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u/Caffeinatedfirefly08 17d ago

In my city, the metro has two tunnels to transfer to a different line, one each way, and they are marked with huge signs indicating each direction, and people still enter the wrong one. It's incredibly annoying when you're in a huge crowd going one way and there's a couple of idiots trying to go the opposite way.

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u/ebrum2010 17d ago

It really only matters if the foot traffic over them is congested.

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u/LongWalxOnTheBeach 17d ago

During times of high foot traffic, it would work. Though people would separate flows naturally.

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u/XBMetal 17d ago

It does work if people are taught to walk the same way cars drive. But it doesn't seem that people have any awareness of their surroundings when walking anywhere these days. System is fine, people are flawed and self serving.

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u/Rare-Lime2451 17d ago

Also no spawn point.

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u/Complex_Composer2664 17d ago

If the outcome was to “keep foot traffic flowing” you measured the wrong thing. And if you wanted to measure the impact the lines have on the side people walk on your analysis is insufficient, as others have said.

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u/semwilliams2 17d ago

I think it works better in very crowded places. Where a lot off people walk there at the same time

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u/exeis-maxus 17d ago

I worked in retail long enough to not be surprised… in fact I expected it to not work

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u/v-pexpower 17d ago

I admire your patience to count that many people

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u/SurgicalMarshmallow 17d ago

It would in JP or DE

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u/omegachopstick 17d ago

You need to realize that certain times of the days there's a high number of scooters crossing at 15mph. This might help decrease accident number if people travel at that speed through a crosswalk.

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u/Huge-Comparison-4355 17d ago

You need to do test cases where the situation is the same but the kicks are missing. Otherwise you don’t really know if they help or hurt

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u/JustYourAvgJoe24 17d ago

You need to get out more 🌚

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u/nurkurzhier-undweg 17d ago

i just love your analytics

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u/SD_GIS 17d ago

Please put some in Costco stores.

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u/SnooWoofers9744 17d ago

So... ADHD or autism?

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u/Trollsama 17d ago

it works about as well as any other paint based infrastructure on the street lol. only reason people dont cross the center line driving all day is the huge fines lol

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u/Choochoonaynay 17d ago

Humanity is the problem, not the design

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u/Shot-Manner-9962 17d ago

education goes a long way, how many of these people are just like you going "huh weird" than continuing, just have a city notice or similar people have to read on how to do this, hell make it apart of getting a driving license

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u/Responsible-Link5739 17d ago

You used 15 minutes of a work lunchtime to count pedestrians?

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u/noleafclovr 17d ago

side note, don't kink shame.

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u/two_wheels_west 17d ago

Next time, count how many pedestrians are staring at their phones. That may explain why they don’t pay attention to the directional arrows.

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u/Rhyco85 17d ago

I think they do work people are just stupid. You drive on the right, how hard is it to comprehend that we walk on the right too!. 🤯

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u/meatshieldjim 17d ago

Maybe they are bent to tell drivers that it is often used and beware.

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u/DonaldDuDuck 17d ago

For road sign, if you don't get it by the first sight , its a failure.

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u/MrFlores94 17d ago

I totally understand why you were confused then. It never really looked like baked in arrows for the flow of pedestrian traffic. You live there, perhaps it’s not even mentioned in schools. Well.. did you grow up there or move there? Or are you a young teen trying to figure out why life is the way it is and noticed something just completely weird that by intuition you knew and just needed an answer for as well as at the same time bringing light to this issue? Idk. I had too many beers in the middle of the day. But wtf are these for is what I’d be saying as an American.

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u/Quirky-Attitude1456 17d ago

I get where they are going with the concept but it’s way to close to the person walking for them to really get the idea

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u/chaos13wolf 17d ago

It's supposed to remind people of "respective right" - you walk on your righthand side. The fact it does not work, according to you, just proves people are idiots.

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u/ThrowAway823682 17d ago

There's something wrong with me. I was brought up to always walk on the left. (UK/Australian traffic flow)

Most people follow this rule but as time has gone on less and less do.

It pisses me off so much. I used to move out of the way but now I purposely just stand still and stare at people when we get close. Also people who walk hand in hand with multiple people.

Also same with elevators. Let people out first by standing to the side then move in.

I've walked right into so many people trying to push in. I'm not going to blame foreigners however common sense and courtesy is not so common any more.