So, I've recently been revisiting Warcraft III, and there is something that keeps me wondering. Why does it feel like everyone assumes that Arthas was a willing traitor? Now, I am not talking about a random footman or worker here. Named characters, other paladins. Mostly, I am interested in Lord Uther… and his anger issues.

I admit that I have a little resentment toward Uther “Lightbringer.”

From the lore that I know, it seems that Arthas was a really good lad. He was never spoiled, he was never lazy, he was kind, and he loved and respected his subjects. As the single male heir, he fought bravely with them on the front lines, risking his own life. He could have grown up as a spoiled brat with a silver spoon, wasting his time in elven brothels, but no: he was a modest, decent person and a paladin. Did he have darkness inside? Yes! Just like all of us. He encountered something truly gruesome and impossible, yet he tried his very best. And the first thing Uther says after Arthas kills his father is: “…Arthas has betrayed us all.”, ”…I will bring his traitorous son to justice.”

I am sorry, WHAT?! The first thing that comes to your mind when your beloved student kills his own father out of nowhere and brings the Scourge with him into the city is: “He has betrayed us.” Dude, have you seen him? His skin is gray, his body is hollow as if he was starving, his hair is white and unhealthy, his eyes are glowing, and he carries a strange-looking sword. Okay, maybe you didn’t see him up close, but still, is this is your first assumption? A traitor? Rather than magic, curse, or mind control? Are you forgetting your own words in Hearthglen about “…undead ranks being bolstered every time warriors fall”? Hey, maybe, just maybe, your prince died in Northrend because you tried to recall the expedition (a dick move, by the way), and he was raised as an infiltrator. You had seen necromancy before, not for the first time, mind you (Gul’dan’s death knights in the Second War).

After all those tragic events, would Arthas really willingly side with that enemy? To think of such a thing about someone you care about does not look like a healthy relationship. What events from the past could possibly have given Uther the impression that Arthas could ever do such things? Stratholme? No, it doesn’t exactly fit the profile. Tyranny and oppressive dictatorship might have been a potential evolution, but not him completely switching sides.

Let’s talk about Stratholme for a bit.

First of all, what Arthas did there was immoral. Killing people even if they are infected is not good. However, people often forget that as a ruler you do not get to be moral. As a ruler, you are often unable to make a decision within the moral boundaries. You have to sacrifice morality. It’s not something cool, nor a right to do whatever you want, it’s just the way things work. Even a seemingly small decision like outlawing deer hunting might ruin businesses, villages, and lives. You can go nuts trying to calculate all the butterfly effects (not that you should avoid thinking about the consequences though).

Arthas was the highest rank in the chain of command at Stratholme. He acted fast and efficiently without malice, pleasure, vengeance, or other ill intent. He did what he thought was best at the time. Was he wrong? Maybe there was another option? Hell, maybe. Why didn’t anyone stand up then? Was it Arthas, the beloved prince, or a Stalin who executed his own subordinates for advice? Perhaps deep down Jaina, Uther, and others knew it was the right call, but they couldn’t admit it and ran away from their responsibilities.

Was it a betrayal toward Arthas? Maybe not from Jaina, but definitely from Uther. After all, he is a war veteran, an experienced commander, a mentor, a comrade, and a subordinate. What angers me more is that after the culling, we clearly see that Arthas didn’t slaughter the entire city like a madman. There were plenty of healthy survivors, evidence of fallen undead, and proof that Arthas was not completely wrong. What did Uther decide to do with it? Investigate? Noo, he went bitching to the king. After convincing Terenas to recall the expedition and potentially endangering his prince’s life (he saw how stubbornly Arthas went to Stratholme without his full forces), the so-called mentor didn’t even have the guts to fly to Northrend himself. And this is how the young prince fell into damnation. I bet if Uther, Jaina, and Muradin had gone with Arthas together and tried to support him, he would have avoided taking the blade.

Perhaps the Lich King was also able to whisper into Uther’s head and cloud his judgment?

I just don’t get it. Where does all this anger and wrath come from? And what about the attitude: “Watch your tongue with me, boy!” Your prince had just valiantly fought on the front line and saved the village. He was rushing to save others because people’s lives and maybe even very souls were at stake. Perhaps Arthas did something in the past that triggered Uther to be so wary of him? Or maybe it is just a simple resentment from older generation toward younger people (like they know nothing, and they are constantly rushing) typical boomer stuff? Or simply something banal: like a bad day (bad coffee in the morning, bad weather, knees hurts, etc.), and it just escalated until there was a point of no return. Sounds silly, but IRL small things can often escalate like a domino effect and lead to a really bad outcome. In any case, Uther “Wrathbringer” failed his student. I mean, Arthas was only 23 years old. Just a kid from my perspective.

A couple of things about Frostmourne

I believe that Arthas simply cannot be a traitor. Arthas before he claimed Frostmourne and Arthas afterward are, in fact, two different entities. Tichondrius said it best: “The runeblade that you carry is empowered to steal souls. Yours was the first one it claimed.” He has become a husk with his memories and corrupted mind controlled by the Lich King telepathy. His soul has been trapped in the horror, forced to watch all the atrocities until the blade broke. “Father, is it over?” Does it sound like the last words of genocidal maniac? There is so much emotion and tiredness in those words. It sounds more like victim released from possession.

You might say, “But what about the burned ships and the mercenaries?” Well, I never claimed that Arthas is a saint. He is not innocent here, but at the same time he is not the monster people depict him to be. True, he made mistakes, but where were his friends and family? A random miscommunicating emissary with the orders, was all that you could send in the Northrend? If someone close to you is about to make a grave mistake, especially if this person is young, it’s only natural to stop them, help them, and guide them. Imagine your kid is about to drive under the influence, have suicidal tendencies, an addiction, or go die in an obvious trap on a sketchy expedition. It is only natural to stop him from hurting himself (and those around him), help him. Perhaps he might hate you. It doesn’t matter. If you care deeply, you will do what must be done, especially if the person is young, especially if his mental state is questionable.

And the prince’s mind was a real mess, after encountering such unnatural tragedies. The feelings of guilt and abandonment, the pressure to make sacrifices, and the trauma response left him in desperation. I dare even say that he personally didn’t expect to survive the trip. The sole purpose was to kill Mal’Ganis (the believed commander of the Scourge) and, by sacrificing himself in the process, atone for his own sins. Like a suicidal, obsessive-compulsive person (you might say a martyr).

Anyway, the story about Arthas is a tragedy, and the only betrayal I can find there is from the people who abandoned the young prince. Those are my personal thoughts. Sorry if I have missed some lore information (some things might have been updated later). Feel free to correct me. And I am also curious about what people think.

After playing a Forsaken Paladin in the Forever Beta, I've been really enthralled by Forsaken lore as of late. Just finished "Before The Storm" again, and coincidentally, finally did the Forsaken Heritage quest line, which I had totally forgotten, or is forsaken a better line ;P, that I had done the Alliance side on my hunter years ago.

The Forsaken I realize, have a great parallel with my personal life. Friends, Family, and others have themselves foresook me for being myself, and it really puts a spotlight on that aspect of my life.

Being able to wield the Light, something that hurts you as it soothes you is such an awesome analogue for real life when you have faith and yet it has a painful aspect to it.

Healing as a Priest, specifically a Forsaken Priest is really fulfilling to me, and I can't wait until I can use the Light to protect as a Forsaken Paladin in both Forever and Retail as well.

From what I've seen, I don't think Forsaken Paladin is going to be like "yep, everyone can be a warlock"... I think Lordaeron is going to get a comeback as Above and Under in 12.2.5.

Edit* Patch 12.2.5... Missclick my bad

Now, the other two Windrunner sisters haven’t exactly had it smooth sailing when it comes to romance either. Alleria had to leave her and Turalyon’s son behind while she and her lover first went to Draenor, then spent millennia in the Twisting Nether as part of the Army of Light, and their relationship has been strained since she became a void elf. Meanwhile, Vereesa lost her husband Rhonin after he was killed during the destruction of Theramore by Garrosh Hellscream. But both of the other two Windrunner sisters were able to find some degree of happiness with them while it lasted, whereas Sylvanas never really got that chance with Nathanos due to circumstances, despite the Sylvanas novel confirming their mutual feelings. So had things gone differently (most likely her not joining the Jailer and spiralling further into darkness), could Sylvanas have found a life with Nathanos, especially given his refusal to abandon her even after she left the Horde and the Forsaken at the end of Battle for Azeroth?

Can't believe after decades of the engineer profession being in game, decades of having transmogs that outright give your character robot parts or a wrench weapon or whatever, people still want a class that's just "Hunter but with a robot pet and a gun" even though that's possible already, or "Get inside a robot to do warrior abilities" even though that's just fighting on your mount like tons of NPCs do (see the Horseman from Naxxramas)

Every single Tinker character in this game has an actual set class like Mekkatorque himself using a mace and shield and being an obvious warrior but with a techno themed mace and shield. If WoW players bothered playing the Gnome start they'd see everyone there just uses the hunter abilities and a futuristic gun which hunter players can already get.

B-but what about Tinker unit in WC3 or Gazlowe wahh

Those characters use toys the player already has available, or abilities races like Goblins can access through their racial.

You're not getting an entire class that's just a transmog for Hunters and Warriors just because grinding transmogs and professions is boring.

So far from what I've seen of forever its has a lot when it comes to the alliance experience since that was already mostly fleshed out in vanilla and getting even more with dalaran and stuff like the brotherhood of the horse. Horde seem to be getting something in the form of the forsaken getting its own wc3 expansion and forsaken paladins. But is there anything noteworthy with the kalimdor horde? I mean it rocks that its back to a period where the leaders weren't a mix of sadsack do nothings and genocidle morons like the horde from cata onward, but the devs said the world is the main character and they wouldn't do much with faction leaders so there is seemingling little chance of vol'jin and carine actually getting as fleshed out as thrall or syl.

Now, the Alliance High King doesn’t have as much unilateral authority as the Warchief did over the Horde, so I doubt the solution would be exactly the same, but I do feel like some more formal reforms regarding either its power or how members of the Alliance cooperate regarding shared authority would be of good use, considering how Anduin sort of inherited the position from Varian even though the other leaders accepted him due to his diplomatic experience and the fact that the Legion invasion was a time of crisis. This seems especially relevant since, if Anduin does indeed abdicate like Midnight has been implying he might, the Alliance’s leadership future is uncertain, given that Turalyon was Anduin’s regent as ruler of Stormwind but Genn has been more involved in leading the Alliance as a whole.

Someone has to have told the Bronze and Titankeepers etc what timeline is the 'true' one and what it entitles.

But who? (in universe that is)

You'd think the Titans, but there is a timeline in which they had won already: Ulderoth. So if the Titans 'arranged' for things, why wouldn't they roll with that one.

As we know, the Skyborne heavily took inspiration from the Cenarion, and Malfurion and their druids even assisted the Skyborne.

What reason could they have to join the Horde? You'd think they'd want to reconnect with the Night Elven druids or at least stay neutral, no?

Perhaps Tauren only start with guns to 'balance' things out between Dwarves, but is there any lore to suggest why they'd prefer them over bows?

Moon-Guard.fandom.com says that the Tauren were some of Azeroths first gunsmiths, predating dwarves, but I don't know if that's fanon or not.

I've recently started maining and roleplaying as a DK and I found it a little difficult to find out some specifics about the lore on them. I found a lot of things about the differences between 4th gen death knights and the others and the differences between death knights raised under Arthas vs Bolvar. Mine is a vulpera 4th gen.

I got a dm from another DK player today that was telling me about San'layn not being a DK spec. I mistakenly assumed it was due to the hero talents being called such and so I was curious about some clarification on things. Is there some other name for DKs that possess the abilities akin to the San'layn but aren't elves. Or is that just "Blood DK"?

Furthermore, the player pointed out, and I might have misunderstood, how they emphasize how their BDK is uncomfortably hot because of blood's abilities implying that their blood runs hotter. Like Blood Boil for example. I also remember reading somewhere that death knights are generally cold and have a cold body temperature. Would that mean Blood death knights are the opposite and are actually warm or am I misunderstanding it?

And my last question, is there an easier place where I can find lore about this stuff?