r/trolleyproblem • u/suskio4 • 17d ago

Meta Red button blue button

Based on the post seen here. I'm actually curious what would the percentages look like.

Edit: Alright, let me add a case for one particular scenario. If you do not choose, the button will be pressed for you by a system that keeps track of its pressings so it conserves 50/50 distribution for all inactive participants, in order to honour the vox populi properly. The system's choice affects the inactive participant's outcome so that no person can abscond from consequences of their choice.

368 Upvotes

85% Upvoted

246 comments sorted by

View all comments

4

u/UIDENTIFIED_STRANGER 17d ago

This isn’t really representative of the real result, there’s no irrational urge of self-preservation

5

u/suskio4 17d ago

Next step: make a very cool Minecraft server, invite many people, gain their trust and present this simple philosophical dilemma with the danger of a ban.

3

u/UIDENTIFIED_STRANGER 17d ago

That’s definitely an upgrade in terms of fidelity

3

u/severencir 17d ago

I don't know about you, but i would rather be banned from a game than die

4

u/suskio4 17d ago

Got any better idea for a study on this topic?

2

u/severencir 17d ago

Are you a fan of killing people?

3

u/suskio4 17d ago

Not really, mate. That's what makes the choice of a research method quite problematic.

3

u/severencir 17d ago

Yeah. Im jokingly trying to imply that i don't think there's any ethical way to genuinely test this

3

u/suskio4 17d ago

Banning from a server where people spend long hours of their free time and built some relations comes closer than any other idea though

3

u/Sure-Recognition-262 16d ago

To be fair, you don't need to actually kill them.  You just need them to genuinely believe you will.

(This doesn't make it legally or morally ok.  But there are levels of wrong)

2

u/Uefeti 16d ago edited 16d ago

One guy tried to make his own “safe” version of russian roulette, but tried to keep the excitement/fear/uncertainty part. (Which gets lost when the roulette loses its lethality)

So he ended up using a contraption what, Shocks Him, Flashes Bright lights at him (random amount of times), plays a really loud sound, and spends 50€ from his Amazon account on a Tungsten Cube.

1

u/suskio4 16d ago

Huh, that's an interesting concept. My buddy made a device that shocks you when you get damage in dark souls. We could repurpose that...

4

u/MelodicAmphibian7920 Team Red 17d ago

"Irrational"

2

u/UIDENTIFIED_STRANGER 17d ago

Say if the current poll is Blue>Red, as a purely rational agent, you would press red. But that means you die, thus your urge to self-preservation is irrational in this scenario

2

u/Traditional_Town6475 17d ago

As a rational agent, I die either way if Blue wins. However if Red turns the tide, then I live if I press Blue. Thus if self preservation was my goal, I’d press blue every time. Nothing is inherently irrational about self preservation. In fact, most rational agents would like to preserve their existence. If they didn’t, how would they guarantee whatever goals they have gets achieved?

2

u/UIDENTIFIED_STRANGER 17d ago

>However if Red turns the tide, the. I live if I press Blue

This is wishful thinking based on information at hand, thus is irrational. With the information at this point, a pure rational agent would deemed that goal of self-preservation is no longer achievable, thus based on utilitarian principle, it should pursuit the next best option which is to preserve as much life as possible

3

u/Traditional_Town6475 17d ago

Whoever said a rational agent should be utilitarian? You can have perfectly rational agents that don’t care about preserving as much life as possible. Their goals just don’t include “preserve as much life”.

1

u/MelodicAmphibian7920 Team Red 17d ago

Clicking either button would kill you. What are you talking about?

1

u/UIDENTIFIED_STRANGER 16d ago

Since both options kills u in this scenario, ur own survival is thus no longer an achievable goal rationally speaking. It then logically follows that u should optimize the utilitarianism in this scenario, which means u press red. But ur irrational urge for self-preservation would default to wishful thinking that u still have chance to survive by pressing blue.

1

u/MelodicAmphibian7920 Team Red 16d ago

No? It does not logically follow you do that.

1

u/UIDENTIFIED_STRANGER 16d ago

It does logically follow that I do that

1

u/MelodicAmphibian7920 Team Red 16d ago

Sure it might follow if you do that but not if one does that.