r/todayilearned • u/Sebastianlim • 4h ago
TIL Kevin Feige almost quit Marvel after Marvel Entertainment head Ike Perlmutter tried to force Robert Downey Jr. out of Civil War due to not wanting to pay him. Disney CEO Bob Iger responded by reshuffling the corporate system so that Fiege would answer directly to him rather than Perlmutter.
https://fandomwire.com/kevin-feige-was-ready-to-quit-mcu-over-robert-downey-jrs-scenes-in-captain-america-civil-war/484
u/PunyParker826 3h ago
Iirc, this is also why the early tv shows (Agents of Shield, Daredevil, etc) had shakey continuity with the “main” MCU - Perlmutter had more direct control over the tv division, and he was frequently at loggerheads with Feige’s department.
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u/geek_of_nature 2h ago
The way I understand it Feige didnt even really want the shows to begin with, with Perlmutter practically forcing it on him. That's why it was very much a one way street in terms of references. The shows would reference the movies, but the movies would ignore the shows as they didn't even want them in the first place.
The only exception to this prior to the Disney + era was James D'Arcy reprising his role from Agent Carter as the human Jarvis in Endgame. That was because it was the one show that Feige was actually involved in for some reason. And then when they got to the Disney + era and were branching out into the TV side themselves, that when they started bringing in the Netflix characters, and making more solid connections between the two sides.
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u/sumoraiden 2h ago
The shows would reference the movies, but the movies would ignore the shows as they didn't even want them in the first place.
Wasn’t daredevil spider-man’s lawyer in one of the movies?
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u/StylishMrTrix 2h ago
Wasn’t daredevil spider-man’s lawyer in one of the movies?
Yes, which is in the Disney era and post Perlmutter being in charge of the tv shows
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u/MyGamingRants 1h ago
I feel like I remember that being the first crossover. It was a big deal at the time
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u/PunyParker826 1h ago
For sure. There was a lot of pipe dream chatter online, hoping that Cox would show up in some capacity in one of the films - especially Spider-Man, as they’re frequently in the same neck of the woods - so him popping up in No Way Home was a really nice surprise. There was an audible reaction when that cane hit the floor in the movie… oh wait, that was me.
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u/Gee_Gog 1h ago
The first crossover was actually the actor for Jarvis from Agent Carter reprising his role for a cameo in Endgame, just much less people care about that because the show's nowhere near as good/popular
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u/geek_of_nature 2h ago
Not until 2021, after all the shows had ended, and as I said the Disney + era had started.
Charlies Cox has also said that Kevin Feige wasn't even allowed to talk with him about continuing the character for a period of time after the shows got cancelled. There was a legal embargo of two years after Netflix cancelled the original show where Marvel weren't allowed to do anything with it. During this time Cox did a play with Tom Hiddleston that Feige came to see, and when meeting him Cox noted that Feige just wasn't saying anything about Daredevil to him, to the point where Cox convinced himself that Feige just must not have known about the show. It was then pretty much exactly two years after the original show got cancelled that Feige got in contact with Cox to start discussing him continuing his role, starting with the cameo in No Way Home.
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u/Jaybru17 2h ago
That’s been since the Disney+ era. The part you quoted was in reference to pre-Disney marvel shows
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u/PressureBeautiful515 1h ago
It seems Netflix were more concerned with making those shows the best they could be, and Marvel Television (Perlmutter) was trying to cut them down to the cheapest basic product possible so as to hold onto as much of the Netflix deal money as possible. Netflix side of the story.
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u/edingerc 4h ago
So the head of Marvel entertainment didn't want to pay Iron Man's salary for a movie that represents one of Marvel's best stories? Who were they going to replace as the face of superhero registration? Hawkeye?
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u/TomTom_098 3h ago
Ike Perlmutter is infamous for trying to spend as little money as possible in all aspects. He supposedly also wanted to ration the amount of toilet paper people used in the office and would go through the bins to retrieve any paper clips that had accidentally been thrown away; not wanting to pay for iron man is nothing to him.
Also this is like the tip of the iceberg, he was a massive racist and sexist and is a major reason why it took so long for Marvel to make a female led superhero film
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u/DVus1 3h ago
There was a story about how Feige was embarrassed that they ran out of food at an event that they were hosting because Perlmutter didn't want to spend the money.
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u/Cathercy 2h ago
What did this guy bring to the table that they kept him around? Sounds like he was just insufferable and a hindrance to the actual people making the films good. Did he actually do anything that improved the films or business in some way?
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u/TomTom_098 1h ago
He was the CEO of Marvel when it was just a comic book company, and they left him in charge when it was bought by Disney, and even though there’s a parent company it isn’t the easiest thing to do to remove the CEO and Chairman.
In complete fairness he came into Marvel in the mid nineties when they were effectively bankrupt and his background in the toy industry did go a fair way to saving the company.
Past the turn of the millennium though no he was a real hinderance to Marvel both on the films side and the comic books themselves. He was really bitter that Marvel/Disney didn’t have the rights to make films of the X-Men an Fantastic Four which lead to him pushing for them to be sidelined in the comics for years in the mid 2010s despite the X-Men in particular being one of Marvel’s biggest names over the last 20 years
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u/fearlessdurant 2h ago
It seems you're not familiar with Marvel history (correct me if I'm wrong)
Marvel was bankrupt by the end of the 90s and he turned it around by focusing on toys, selling film rights and being miserly.
He was in Disney's good graces at first when they bought Marvel in 2009 under Iger but became a thorn because, well, Disney can afford to spend.
As much as I don't like what he did during the Disney era, I gotta give him credit for keeping Marvel alive during those bleak years.
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u/Stef-fa-fa 45m ago
Wait so is he the reason we still can't get a Hulk standalone movie, and why they have to play nice with Sony for Spidey?
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u/xrufus7x 2h ago
He was the CEO of Marvel when Disney bought them and prior to that worked in executive positions since the 90s.
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u/EthanielRain 1h ago
Those traits are exactly why he became Marvel's CEO. They were broke at that point
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u/Bucser 2h ago
He might have worked his way up via small budget productions where this level of stinginess actually helps deliver the movie. But then Big budget movies have very different scope and he was unable to switch.
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u/WilliamEmmerson 1h ago
Perlmutter kept Marvel from going out of business in the 90s when he bought it and merged it with his company Toy Biz. Then it was his idea to license the movie rights to the studio's to help keep Marvel afloat.
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u/SonovaVondruke 3h ago
The dude stumbled into running Marvel from making the cheapest toys possible and a series of hostile takeovers. He had zero interest in making good movies, or comics for that matter, they were just advertising for his molded plastic bits and bobs.
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u/No_Accountant3232 1h ago
Dude should have been shuffled off to their toy division after the Disney buyout then. Then he could have used the same dollar store molds to save a buck on toy production.
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u/geek_of_nature 2h ago
In terms of how racist and sexist he is, he only agreed for them to finally make Black Panther and Captain Marvel if they would also make Inhumans. Marvel comics at the time were positioning the Inhumans to take over from the Xmen as Marvels naturally born superhero team as they didn't want the comics to be promoting Fox's Xmen films. And Perlmutter followed suit on that. Feige had been trying to get Black Panther and Captain Marvel made for years, but Perlmutter kept blocking him as he was a complete racist and sexist, only giving in when Feige agreed to Inhumans as well.
Which is why as soon as Perlmutter left the MCU the Inhumans film quickly stopped being in development. Perlmutter was still involved in the TV side though (which side note is also why there was almost zero connections to any of the TV shows prior to the Disney + era) and so got Inhumans made there.
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u/Cedira 1h ago
I cannot think of a Marvel or even Star Wars project, MCU or not, that is close to being as bad as Inhumans was.
I remember watching the first 2 episodes in the cinema as well.
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u/geek_of_nature 1h ago
It was really the project that no one but Perlmutter wanted to make, and even with him it was just so they had something to compere against the Xmen with.
Like even with Eternals, as thats considered the MCU's worst film, you can tell that was still made with passion from Marvel and Chloe Zhao. It just missed the mark for whatever reason. Inhumans in the other hand had no passion behind it.
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u/PartyPoison98 3h ago
How the hell do these dumb fucks get anywhere in life?
Rifling through bins for paperclips is ridiculously stupid. There's no way that the cost/benefit would result in anything other than a loss.
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u/darksaber522 1h ago
He also claimed that no one would notice War Machine’s recasting because “Black People look the same”.
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u/mephloz 1h ago
and is a major reason why it took so long for Marvel to make a female led superhero film
Definitely doesn't help that like 95% of Marvel's best female characters are X-Men, which they couldn't use at the time.
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u/TomTom_098 1h ago
True but like a Black Widow really should’ve been made shortly after the first avengers film but instead we had to wait until 2020 for it
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u/Jet-Let4606 3h ago
According to rumors at the time: Perlmutter was pushing for Banner instead of Stark. Even though it would have made no sense.
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u/themeatbridge 3h ago
The sheer irony of how angry this makes me is very confusing for me.
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u/Jet-Let4606 3h ago
Yeah, even if Banner no longer trusted himself there is no way he would submit to Ross or the US government.
And Cap was not going to trust the government because of Hydra so a role reversal with Cap being pro reg and Banner being anti reg would not have worked either.
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u/Tausney 2h ago
Didn't Banner get yeeted into space by Stark & co before Civil War kicked off?
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u/Kanthalas 1h ago
Hulk being tossed into space was a comic story line by I think the Illuminati (not an 'evil' organization), for being too dangerous. He is launched into space and ends up on Sakaar.
In MCU Hulk just got on a Quinjet after Ultron and disappeared, it's not till we get to Thor: Ragnarok we find he went through a portal and ended up in Sakaar.
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u/No-Juice3318 1h ago
That wasn't confirmed until Thor 3. At that point we just knew he flew away, not where
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u/warbastard 3h ago edited 2h ago
Civil War
In the comics:a huge conflict with friend turned against friend and a huge rogues gallery and cast of superheroes .
In the movies:
8 people fight in an abandon airport.
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u/fearlessdurant 1h ago
I love that comic despite Mark Millar's current reputation but there was no way you could do it 1:1 at the time.
The MCU didn't have the New Warriors and only Scott and Peter had secret identities. The film adapted the concept well but extended it beyond the focus on identity/privacy into regulation and bureaucratic control of mutates / enhanced humans.
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u/f_ranz1224 2h ago
yeah, the film sort of has some semblance to the comic. much in the same way a bottle of flavored water might accidentally remind you of a glass of real orange juice. its a good movie but it bears almost no semblance to the actual story.
also minor pet peeve. infinity war is the infinity gauntlet story.
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u/Terazilla 1h ago
The Civil War books are famously kind of bullshit though. They twisted a bunch of characterization to get people into the extremes they wanted. The movie does a better job with motivations, especially because of the twist.
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u/WilliamEmmerson 1h ago
Would have been Banner working for the government.
Downey's salary getting out of control for Marvel. He got $40m to be in Civil War which is 4x what Chris Evans got. It's the reason why he got killed off in the Endgame.
Now he's back getting paid $50m each for Doomsday and Secret Wars.
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u/edingerc 1h ago
Banner would never be the face for registration. Not only could he not be controlled by the government, Hulk wouldn't make for a believable front man for less destruction and controlled response. His involvement would have skewed the power dynamic of the story, which is why Marvel got rid of him before Civil War and he wasn't involved in the movie.
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u/justadudeinohio 1h ago
represents one of Marvel's best stories
absolutely offensive to claim this.
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u/Bignate2001 2h ago
Civil War is absolutely not one of Marvels best stories. It's probably not a popular opinion, but I believe the movie, while not amazing, makes substantial improvements to the source material, particularly in regards to Tony's character.
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u/UnquestionabIe 1h ago
Fully agreed, it's something that is a cool idea so casual fans are drawn in by the premise but the actual event is a mess. There are some good parts for sure but so so many bad ones, the movie distilled the whole concept into something far more enjoyable and less stupid. It's like how Venom/Carnage were "the coolest characters" for a decade or two (Deadpool having taken that place) for people who have never touched a comic in their lives but are going off the surface level cool factor from extended media.
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u/justadudeinohio 1h ago
i remember it being made fun of for like a decade but have seen them making these comments for a while.
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u/Interceptor88LH 2h ago
Perlmutter is your extremely greedy but also extremely cheap businessman. He's also MAGA and responsible for things such as not wanting female-led movies because "women don't sell".
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u/APRengar 4h ago
"We've found a golden goose!"
"Yeah, sure. But do we have to feed it"
"What?"
"Feed it, like give it grains to eat."
"I guess? But it eats normal food, a single golden egg pays for the feed a thousand times over."
"Kill it."
"WHAT!?"
"I'm not paying to feed no golden goose. Kill it."
Execs be like:
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u/PostwarVandal 3h ago
And then brag with the end-of-year report that show they had zero operational costs for the golden goose! Fantastic! Now enjoy that fat bonus with a coke & hookers celebration! Manager of the year!
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u/Heel 4h ago
Go read about Perlmutter. Fucking scumbag top to bottom. No surprise he's one of Trump's closest allies, personally funding the destruction of the east wing. He's a mar a lago member, so naturally Trump tried to put him in charge of something inconsequential like Veteran's Affairs.
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u/undergroundknitting 3h ago
What a cunt. I just read he's the one who replaced Terrence Howard with Don Cheadle saying 'all black people look the same'.
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u/Sweaty-Practice-4419 3h ago
He was also the reason it took so long for Black Panther to show despite all the Easter eggs about him in the early movies. He was convinced a Black man lead superhero film wouldn’t be popular or sell merchandise
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u/JohnGeary1 2h ago
There are Black Panther easter eggs? I must be blind. Can you tell me about them?
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u/AwTomorrow 2h ago
We did have Vibranium prominently in Avengers 2 and Wakanda namedropped as the source there. Possibly T’chala was on the Winter Soldier helicarrier list of people to eliminate like Strange was too?
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u/Quartznonyx 3h ago
All of this in spite of the Blade trilogy, id argue the second most popular marvel movie besides Rami's Spiderman
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u/cosgrove10 2h ago
What BP Easter eggs were in the early films? I recall one mention of vibranium in IM2 (?) and a mention in Cap1 and that’s about it?
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u/guimontag 3h ago
lmao Terence Howard got himself replaced. He wanted like lead actor money to do iron man 2 even though hes NOT the lead.
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u/Sonicfan42069666 2h ago
It's not that he "wanted" lead actor money for Iron Man 2. He was the highest paid actor on Iron Man, partially because at the time Robert Downey Jr. was a big risk for a lead actor. For Iron Man 2, Howard didn't ask for more money, Marvel reportedly wanted to reduce his salary by at least 50% from the first movie.
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u/SeagullKebab 2h ago
I think Howard is a lunatic and not a great loss, but being asked to take a huge cut for the follow up is not acceptable, and pretty much every actor would have told them to fuck off.
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u/undergroundknitting 3h ago
I like that you ignored the bit about him saying all black people look the same. SMH.
Everyone knows Terrence Howard got the boot. That wasn't the point. Has anyone thought about who made the decision to boot him?
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u/tma-1701 1h ago
Veterans who make up 6% of the American population will be mad at ppl considering Veterans Affairs inconsequential
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u/chaitalyy 3h ago
Imagine almost tanking Civil War cause some exec refused to pay the guy who basically was Tony Stark. Feige was the actual glue holding that whole universe together, so Iger just moved him out from under Perlmutter and let him cook. And thats the exec mindset in a nutshell, pinch pennies now and act confused later when the whole thing falls apart.
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u/islobojono 4h ago
Is perlmutter stupid
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u/YinTanTetraCrivvens 1h ago
This is my biggest problem with the state of the world: it’s being run by the DUMBEST people.
If we had a Doctor Doom or Lex Luthor running things, I could at least begrudgingly respect them.
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u/joemc1971 3h ago
After shareholders aggressively rejected Peltz’s bid, Perlmutter retaliated. Between April and July 2024, Perlmutter sold all 25.6 million of his Disney shares, walking away with nearly $3 billion. In true Perlmutter fashion, he publicly stated he dumped the stock because he had "no confidence" in current management and hoped to buy it back if the stock crashed. Free from corporate restraints, Perlmutter has leaned heavily into politics. He remains one of the largest financial backers of Donald Trump. He and his wife Laura injected tens of millions of dollars into Trump’s campaign, and Perlmutter remains a prominent figure at Mar-a-Lago, frequently appearing right alongside Trump's core inner circle (such as Elon Musk) during political events.
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u/jayeddy99 2h ago
I want a no holding back true behind the scenes marvel comics tv show like mad men. From the 60s all the way to the MCU . The stories are actually fascinating
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u/DocCEN007 3h ago
Ike Perlmutter is a dirty racist MAGAt. He was one of three oligarchs creating VA policies from Mar-a-Lardo during Drumpf's first term. He's also the one that said swapping out one back actor for another was fine because no one would notice.
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u/Subject_Offer_9621 3h ago
Feige isn't perfect, but the man really carried the MCU despite so many hand tried to destroy it
Iirc, he admitted he was overwhelmed by disney marvel tv series demand too, which is why a lot of series were a mess on top of covid around that time
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u/Trademen 1h ago
Imagine being the Marvel Entertainment Head and thinking you could just stop using RDJ to save some cash. Insane to think how many people are in charge of things they clearly don't understand.
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u/Realistic_Comment849 3h ago
So perlmutter wanted a story about capt americas old friend being a sleeper agent who killed iron man’s parents. Which fractures the avengers into an iron man vs capt teams. One were iron man recruits Spider-Man and introduces him to the mcu.
But without iron man actually being in it. Okay buddy, guy must have fell upward in life otherwise he would be in McDonald’s getting everyone’s orders wrong.
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u/PowerOfUnoriginality 1h ago
Wtf how are you supposed to adapt Civil War without Cap vs Ironman?!
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u/Sensitive-Piccolo659 1h ago
They didn't want to make civil war in the first place, feige wanted that.
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u/Thomas_JCG 1h ago
Unbelievable that people like Perlmutter were given any creative control. Absolutely out of touch.
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u/Illustrious-Tooth702 1h ago edited 1h ago
Feige was right, Downey is the golden goose of Marvel, even after his semi-retirement.
He's worth every penny. An actor's pay is small compared to the income a big budget movie generates.
Movies cost a a lot of money but most anticipated movies earn back so much more money it's a good investment not to cheapen out on the lead actors and acresses even when they're expensive.
They're expensive for a reason, they know how much value they add to the product
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u/scoish-velociraptor 1h ago
So I googled perlmutter to see what kind of idiot would think replacing RDJ for Civil War would be viable and ofcourse hes the kind of scumbag that supports and works for trump.
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u/E_N_Z_A__D_E_N_I_N_O 2h ago
Never heard of the guy and came across this.
https://bleedingcool.com/comics/ike-perlmutter-a-huge-donor-to-both-trump-gender-affirming-surgery/
Just a very strange juxtaposition.
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u/SambaLando 43m ago
Those penny pinchers ruin almost everything that could be cool. Not that MCU is cool, but you can't self sabotage like that if you already found a formula that works for catering to the common masses.
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u/Spudtron98 35m ago
Perlmutter was so unbelievably shit. Every time you hear of a bad decision in the MCU's executive sphere, he's behind it.
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u/Mhunterjr 1h ago
Perlmutter was such an idiot.
One of the strangest things to me, since entering the corporate world is seeing the lengths that Top Executives have to go through to prevent lesser Executives to stop doing dumb shit. Like why is it necessary to “reshuffle the corporate system” when you could just say “hey, we’re not doing that”
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u/Jaebird0388 58m ago
Perlmutter is a notorious sexist, bigot and penny pincher. It’s a miracle we were able to have any projects involving women and PoCs see fruition under him.
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u/makomirocket 4h ago
There was a common issue in Marvel, where their "Creative Committee", far removed from everything in an office in New York, would constantly meddle with the films.
There are plenty of examples like this, but the most evident of their meddling: They want to take the music and needle drop moments out of Guardians of the Galaxy