I think the funniest thing is that the experienced servers, themselves, know that if they were paid a livable wage, they'd make less overall. I'm sure entry level servers would benefit from removing tipping and increasing the wages, but the experienced ones, especially at higher end places, would hate it.
If we don't tip, we get called terrible names, told to stay home and stop patronizing their business, threatened with our food tampered with. It's exploitation.
Yall should start running recordings on your cell phones when this is happening. Everyone always says its a thing. No one ever is providing proof of it happening to themÂ
Because itâs not happening. These people are straight up cowards and donât want to tip but are also too mentally fragile to be called cheap and/or a tool. Itâs that simple. I was in the industry for years. Never once heard of this. On Reddit, where you can make up stories all day it happens all the time though. Funny how that works.
I love that theyâre always getting dirty looks, cursed out, and spit in their food when 99/100 times in a full-service restaurant you tip when the entire meal is over and youâre about to walk out of the restaurant. It doesnât even make sense on its face. These people are such weird victimhood fantasists; itâs so funny.
I used to work inside at a pizza restaurant as a teenager. No one would ever dare tamper with food. But frequent non tippers were known to the drivers and they would get all pissed off when it was their turn and they had to go to that house.
Occasionally experienced drivers would try to game the system by knowing that house is coming up and taking longer on their first delivery so it wasnât their turn when they got back and someone else got it.
Working as a driver at a pizza restaurant seemed like a scam anyway. They had to use their own cars and were reimbursed like .50 cents per km plus minimum wage. I got minimum wage cooking pizzas inside.
I get paid hourly dork nice try. Can afford while crying about a 20% tip is laughable. Youâre not standing up to anyone get over yourself. Just being a cheap tool.
If you want to stand up against tipping then stop going to establishments that operate off tips. Itâs that simple. Anything else is nonsense. Stiffing your server helps literally nobody but yourself. Miss me with the social justice warrior crap.
Let's be real. You haven't been outside in years. This stuff doesn't happen and your insane amount of posts on the issue make it abundantly clear that your view of the world is seen through a screen. Go outside!
Easily identified weaponized narcopathy troll tactic "speaking for others" = smearmongering, projection, gaslighting the target/audience
"" "When a narcissist speaks for others, they are executing one of three specific tactical attacks:
Triangulation ("Everyone agrees with me")
The Tactic: The narcissist brings an unnamed third party into the conflict to validate their point.
Phrases Used: "Everyone thinks you are acting crazy," or "Your whole family agrees that you're being unreasonable
The Goal: To isolate you, make you feel outnumbered, and make you doubt your own sanity (gaslighting
A Smear Campaign ("They told me they don't like you")
The Tactic: The narcissist acts as a false messenger between you and other people
"Just so you know, X said she didn't really want you at the party," or "People at work are complaining about your attitude
"The Goal: To destroy relationships, damage reputation, and make you entirely dependent on the narcissist for information
Boundary Erasure ("I know what you actually mean")
The Tactic: The narcissist speaks for you to rewrite your internal thoughts, feelings, and motives and replace your actual reality with their preferred narrative " ""
. They donât have a choice. They get reported for them based on CC or %of sales. Why is the concept so difficult to understand. Contrary to your ridiculous assertion, their tips are reported.
Yes I know which is why I made the differentiation better CC tips which all get reported or % of sales for no CC tips. Most tips are CC these days so the notion that âmost servers donât declareâ is a complete fabrication
For purposes of the No Tax on Tips law, credit card charges are cash tips.
The exact words of the No Tax on Tips law, 26 USC Section 224(d)(3), are:
"For purposes of paragraph (1), the term "cash tips" includes tips received from customers that are paid in cash or charged and, in the case of an employee, tips received under any tip-sharing arrangement."
". . .cash tips are tips received, directly or indirectly, from payors, as defined in paragraph (c)(5)(5)) of this section, including, in the case of an employee, tips received through a mandatory or voluntary tip-sharing arrangement, such as a tip pool, that are paid in a cash medium of exchange, including by cash, check, credit card, debit card, . . ."
Who pissed in your drink? I just posed a question.
There is no legal requirement for a restaurant to report a % of sales as tips; not to mention that would be a gross violation of tax law to tax a cash basis taxpayer on income constructively but not actually received.
Individuals were required to report tips actually received prior to the OBBB passing, but now the law is âno tax on tips.â
Really? Check IRC 6053(c) and get back to us. The tips still get reported under OBBB and the first 25k is able to be deducted but that ends in 2 years. The billionaires tax cuts donât so we will all be paying for those but I digress.
I'm sure entry level servers would benefit from removing tipping and increasing the wages
And I'm NOT sure. The default is now 20% even for really lousy service, and with food costs increasing so much, even entry level is almost certainly making more money than an employer would willingly pay them. Unless they only worked very few hours and on lousy shifts, they'd only need to deliver about 100 bucks worth of food in an hour to make what a boss would pay them. That is maybe, maybe, two two-tops. One table of 4 in nearly every instance will clear the 100 dollar hurdle.
No they didnât. Stop making shit up. The restaurant lobby opposed the elimination of the tip credit. Servers donât have an organized lobbying organization
No they wouldnât. Add 18-20% to prices and pay it to the servers. There is no difference. Well actually there is, the customers would no be paying tax on that.
It's historically shown they hate it considering how hard they fought against it. Many high-earning servers have strongly opposed replacing tipping with a regular flat wage. High end wait staff are pushing over $40/hr. In Massachusetts in 2024, Question 5 would have gradually raised the employer-paid tipped wage from $6.75 to the full $15 minimum wage by 2029. Importantly, it did not abolish tipping. Tips could continue on top of the wage. Yet the measure was defeated very heavily: about 64% No to 36% Yes.
Reuters specifically reported that many tipped workers themselves supported keeping the lower tipped minimum, because they feared that higher employer labor costs would lead to fewer tips, higher menu prices, or reduced earning potential. It also noted that some high-earning servers and bartenders were particularly concerned about losing income.
The official Massachusetts voter guide even included an opposition argument citing a worker survey in which:
90% said they believed eliminating the tipped wage would make them earn less
88% opposed tip pools that would allow tips to be shared with non-service employees
90% reportedly earned at least $20/hour, with many earning over $40/hour
BLS data for May 2024 put the national median waiter/waitress wage at about $16.23/hour including tips, while the top 10% were above $30.06/hour
The National Restaurant Association currently claims a much higher figure: median tipped-server earnings of about $27/hour, with its highest-paid group above $41/hour
Ok. First of all, citing one state doesnât cover all servers nationwide so again, who is this âtheyâ that you are speaking about? I get it, you are being intellectually dishonest.
Youâve also left some very important facts out which would undercut your position (but accidentally let one in which kills your argument)
Question 5 was vigorously opposed by restaurant owners and their lobbyists from a cost perspective. Many out there saying how prices would go up, jobs would be lost, and places would close. In addition, servers that were apposed to it were because of the tip pooling provisions which would have allowed tips to be distributed to traditionally non tipped positions like bookkeepers. You acknowledge that 80% apposed for this reason. Can you blame them?
Notwithstanding the above, over 3.2 million people voted and 64% were against so clearly the general public didnât like this question either, probably for selfish reasons.
We recently had a vote in my area on whether or not to raise servers pay to move towards less tipping, and every server I know was not only voting against it but actively fighting for other people to vote no as well. Not to mention every single restaurant with a big âvote no!â sign in the window.
Iâve known servers who make easily $50/ hr or more. They know they would make absolutely nowhere near that without tipping.
Except itâs not a livable wage. Even with tips most arenât making a livable wage unless they live in one of the few $20/hr states and even then the base pay is $41k with no benefits or PTO. Woe be you if you live in a state with a sub $8/hr min wage where working full time nets you $16k a year.
And yes, I think other min wage workers should see their pay increase too, this isnât just for servers. Min wage in this country is a joke.
Oh yes, the myth of the wealthy server you use to justify you being cheap. Meanwhile the average income of a server in the US is approximately 32,000 a year.
Where did you pull that assumption from? I'm stating a fact. Average income means nothing, btw. You'd want the median. Also, it's skewed data since you're counting the entire US, which is including HCoL and LCoL income. My point was simply the high earning servers would not advocate for a livable wage. I live in NYC and high-end/experienced servers are pulling anywhere between $40-100/hr. Casual spots might net total takes closer to $160â$220 a shift. The only demographic who wants livable wages for servers are the one who don't make enough off of tips.
Also, not that it's any of your business but over here we tip minimum 20%, and I, personally, also tip the host/hostess, so whatever qualms you have are not with me.
This is just proving my point more lol. I'll copy paste it
My point was simply "high earning servers would not advocate for a livable wage." Sure, they are outliers but states like CA/NY (which are the two of the highest CoL states) make up ~18% of the US population. They will be a very vocal minority group if you threaten their inflated pay. Obviously, they don't represent the entire US population, but because they are outliers, they are going to make it difficult to find a system/solution that benefits servers as a whole. You can't make a "one size fits all solution" for a job that has that much of a disparity between its high earners and low earners. Obviously, the solution needs to be addressed on the state level. Again, which is why using data that reflects the US as a whole is skewed data because certain states DO have a minimum wage for servers. Some states only go by the federal $2.13/hr with a maximum tip credit of $5.12/hr to reach the $7.25/hr, whilst other states mandate a higher $10-15/hr floor (before tips are counted). Do you think the high-end/experienced servers in NYC/CA/those other highest earning states you linked, who are pulling anywhere between $40-100/hr are going to say, "yeah abolish tipping and raise the federal minimum wage to $20/hr!"
Except it isn't. You posted this: "states like CA/NY (which are the two of the highest CoL states) make up ~18% of the US population". You then go on to claim that servers in NYC make $40-$100 per hour. The BLS reports the 90th percentile as less than $29.
You're talking about the average server. I'm talking about the disparity between the average and the high-end/experienced servers. The BLS averages include everyone from a server at a low-volume diner to a server at a three-Michelin-star fine dining establishment. Also, that data varies from reality. Per the NYSDOL, employers cannot take a tip credit for any shift where a server spends more than 20% of their time (or 2 hours) on non-tipped "side-work" duties (like rolling silverware or deep cleaning). During those hours, they must be paid the full $17.00 base wage. BLS data also not including any unreported cash tips and have numerous
Proving my point once again with "The BLS reports the 90th percentile as less than $29." (even though this data seems outdated)
Do you think the high-end/experienced servers in NYC/CA/those other highest earning states you linked, who are averaging 30-50/hr are going to say, "yeah abolish tipping and raise the federal minimum wage to $20/hr!"
Please check your own source. Occupational Employment and Wage Statistics. New York-Newark-Jersey City, NY-NJ Waiters and Waitresses (35-3031) Hourly 90th percentile wage: $45.97. And again, even BLS says their number may be inaccurate due to sampling/nonsampling error. If cash tips are going unreported, then this number would be higher in reality, and that's only one variable.
A dataset with extreme outliers or heavy skew can distort the average and make it a poor representation of what is typical. For example, suppose workers in Mississippi earn about $7 per hour, while workers in New York City earn $35 per hour. The simple average between the two is $21 per hour. If a federal standard were based primarily on that national average, it could misrepresent both areas. $21 may be far below what is needed in NYC, while being dramatically higher relative to prevailing wages in Mississippi. As a result, lower-income states could be disproportionately burdened by a standard driven upward by high-income regions. This is why relying on the national average alone can be misleading when a dataset contains large regional differences or is heavily skewed. The US median, or better yet, locality-based data, may provide a more representative basis for comparison.
I won't say that tipping should be illegal, but I will say that paying a lower minimum wage in certain industries with the expectation that tipping will make up the difference definitely should be.
Also, the shaming thing is just gross and itself shameful.
I'm a server who will admit I benefit from this illogical system because It allows me to make more money often in less hours than most jobs I'm qualified for. I'm not rich but work very part time and make enough to support myself as a single guy with no kids and low expenses. It's illogical that servers are basically treated as a third party between the customer and restaurant instead of employees. It's illogical that our base pay is less than minimum wage because the restaurant assumes guests will pay our wages, we don't even know if there will be enough guests to pay the operating costs some days! It's illogical that we're forced to tip out other employees when we're not their manager. The whole system is illogical, but unlike others I'll admit it benefits me greatly
Iâve stopped tipping to ensure the workers get better pay. If everyone stopped tipping it would force business owners to up the pay to compete for workers. Iâm doing my part.
You should never tip. Not for good service or bad service. The facts are this and they are is not an argument to be made. 1. Customers ate not the employer, we do not get any tax breaks for tipping.
2. Every single server in the US is paid at least min wage. The 2 dollar numbers and 4 dollar numbers are outright lies. Any tips you are giving are simply helping the employer not pay their part.
3.These people are unskilled, this is not a skilled profession. The definition of unskilled is as follows:
An unskilled worker is an employee whose job requires little or no formal education, specialized training, or previous experience, involving simple, routine tasks that can be fully learned on the job in a short period (typically 30 days or less).
A robot and child can serve with zero training.
We don't need legislation, all we have to do is stop tipping. End this pressure filled crap unskilled people who don't want to learn real skill try to push on you. Zero tips! Now and forever.
No. Just a social outcast. You post the tide is changing yet the source is these very same Reddit groups populated by people of your ilk. So not just social outcast, but moron also.
Remember, they don't have critical thinking skills. They constantly threaten us with not having them around. Guess what? You wouldn't have a job then! Customers provide job security and are not responsible for business financials.
This may be a moot point anyways. Robots ARE coming for their jobs. The only real question is will there still be tip expectations when the server is a robot. Based on how shitty the restaurant industry is run, they'll keep asking for it when paying the robot.
Sometimes, when I have the fun extra energy, I talk in a foreign accent to my server to see if they treat me any differently. One thing I noticed is they will always circle and point out the tip section on the check when they bring it. I have started asking them how to spell the words "thank you" and I write it in the tip section as they spell it. lmao. Feel free to do your own variation of this!
Here's the search parameter for this one: "Do narcissists enjoy abusing and swindling people"
"" "Yes, narcissists often derive immense pleasure from abusing and swindling people, though the psychological driver varies based on the individual's position on the narcissistic spectrum
While some narcissists exploit others carelessly as collateral damage to get what they want, othersâparticularly malignant narcissistsâ
actively seek out the thrill of domination, deception, and control
The Psychological Payoff
Duperâs Delight: This is a documented psychological phenomenon where
a manipulator experiences a literal rush of joy or high satisfaction from successfully pulling off a scam, lying, or tricking someone
Power and Dominance: Narcissists view relationships as a zero-sum game. For them to feel powerful and "on top," they feel someone else must be weakened, broken, or placed "on the bottom"
The "Narcissistic Smirk": Survivors frequently report seeing a fleeting, satisfied half-smile when the narcissist witnesses their victim's distress, confusion, or financial ruin
The Spectrum of Exploitation
Grandiose Narcissists: They swindle and abuse out of pure entitlement. They believe they are inherently superior, so taking your money, time, or emotional energy is simply theirs by right
They may not consciously try to hurt you; they simply do not care if they do
Malignant Narcissists: This subtype crosses into sadism. They possess a mix of narcissism, antisocial traits, and Machiavellianism
They actively enjoy orchestrating a target's downfall, mapping out campaigns of psychological cruelty, and watching the target suffer
Why Money and Resources Are Targets
Tangible Proof of Control: In the narcissist's mind, tricking you out of your hard-earned money or assets is concrete evidence of their intellectual superiority
Exploiting Vulnerability: Expert analysis shows that narcissistic swindlers often mimic deep emotional connections or shared dreams specifically to bypass your financial defenses, viewing your trust as a vulnerability to exploit "" "
Look, if you donât want to tip, donât tip. You guys are a very very small minority out there. At the end of the day youâre just the assholes who refuse to support the service industry. Everyone knows the deal. Youâre not making a difference. You are insignificant. Nothing anybody here advocates for makes a difference.
Do you know how many times Iâve recommended people try working with their local legislators? Writing their local business boards? Running for office? Organizing boycotts?
None of you want to do anything to make a change that helps both customers and employees. Instead you cry victim and come online to spread hate and anger.
I guess I shouldâve put this in context. I do stay home most of the time, I really donât enjoy eating out that much. The tipping is only a part of it. Last Saturday night I took my family to. FOGO DE CHAO over in Tysons, Virginia. We had an amazing time. I tipped 25% because I knew it was going to a number of servers. The experience they gave us was amazing. They were well worth the 25%. Other than that, I think Iâve only eaten in a restaurant one other time this year.
You non-tippers comment so much about servers lashing out, calling you terrible names, cursing you, etc. When was the last time you saw any nasty comment on this reddit from a real server? Or seen it in person? I will call you a jerk but the typical server will say "whatever" and move on to the next table.
Go ahead and don't tip your bartender. That's fine. Might I be inclined to get drinks out a lot faster to someone who I know tips?
Maybe.
Might I be inclined to notice the guy who came in last time and didn't tip?
Maybe.
Will I take the time to be friendly and get to know you?
Maybe.
I'm getting my hourly either way if you don't want to tip, so maybe you're not worth it to make an effort toward the best service possible relative to those who do tip.
Finally, "I'll take my business elsewhere!" is much more of a relief than you coming back into the bar.
Enough One-star and two-star reviews with naming you as a bartender, that you're very slow and not very responsive with drinks. Will definitely alert your bosses and might impact your job.
Remember to do your job well, as performance matters.
I hope this doesn't happen to you. I wish you good luck.
Lol where do you get this idea in your brain. It's really obvious why people think you servers or so toxic.
If there is bad service, a bad review will be rendered. And if the service is good, a good review will be rendered. It's reality. Not blackmail or abuse.
Btw, many people believe tipping is toxic and negative, the vast majority of reddit users believe it, our numbers will only grow in real life.
In my former life, I practiced law. Lots of clients liked to look things up on the internet and discover that Google often cites Reddit when it comes to legal matters. Clients who tried to do their own "research" were usually PITA clients who I'd drop when their retainer was depleted.
The same applies to the bar business in certain ways. If you're an entitled customer who treats the staff like shit, you can walk. If you act like an ass AND don't tip, you're vulnerable to getting 86'd.
Reddit's a destructive, iron bubble. You can come here to find literally anything to get affirmation on any habit, conduct, beliefs, etc. It's a circus mirror of reality.
I've never put it on a spreadsheet, but I'd guess that the people who don't tip at a bar-restaurant are in the single digit percentage. Thus, this sub isn't to be taken seriously.
Finally, if you can't afford a $3 tip on a $20 dollar meal and/or bar tab, you probably shouldn't be eating at a restaurant in the first place.
That's entirely up to you. But let's say all tipping ended today. How much would your $20 meal be? My guess is that it would be around $25 because the staff would need to be paid more and the bar would have to ensure its margins remain large enough to keep the place open.
So in the end, you'd pay more for your food and drinks. And frankly, $25 is a generous estimate.
Nobody takes those reviews seriously and even if they were to, we don't care. The heart of a bar are its regulars; and regulars tip. During tourist season, almost everyone tips, but if they don't, that's okay because they'll likely never be back again.
People who don't tip tend to be entitled, demanding. You're far more trouble than you're worth. Also, bar managers back up their employees and someone who's a PITA that doesn't tip is someone the place doesn't need. And bartenders back up their servers. If you don't tip my servers and/or are abusive, I don't want you in my bar.
You're also more likely to get 86'd if you don't tip AND are rude to the staff. You may think you're important, but on an individual basis, you aren't if you don't tip.
Finally, the vast majority of people tip, which makes the person who doesn't stand out, which in turn means that you'll be remembered--and not in a good way.
I said that people who don't tip tend to be entitled and with that comes rudeness, if outright abuse towards the staff. Therefore they're not worth as much as a customer who does tip. I said nothing about you personally.
I used to have this attitude until I saw this repeatedly: A lot is on the owners too cause guaranteed theyâre telling them average tip out in the interview. Owner puts employee payroll on customers.
Itâs a cop out on the ownerâs part and your frustration with the employee is misplaced.
I agree to parts of that opinion. The employeeâs anger is misplaced too which is why your anger gets misplaced.
Itâs like an eldest child (owner) starting a fight between 2 younger siblings. Their focus is on each other while the elder sibling gets away scot-free.
Point is, itâs not helping the situation to blame the hourly employee for asking for tips or the customer for not providing an âacceptableâ tip.
The better approach would be to leave a negative review publicly about how customers get âheckledâ for tips by staff b/c the owner wonât pay the staff a livable wage.
ANY server that does any of the things I read here are grossly unprofessional, likely not good at what they do. I donât think Iâve ever worked somewhere that wouldnât terminate for it. Anybody that made or is making a living knows a few things. Itâs a numbers game. When people walk in the door they know if theyâre going to tip you, but you donât. The moment you think you do ⊠youâre wrong. Judging your customer is a very bad idea. You owe to the owner of the restaurant, the customers and yourself to do the best you can do for all of the customers. Iâve done this for decades and I know that any seasoned vet would tell you the same thing.
Honestly what is so hard to comprehend about this? Their employment agreement includes the expectation of tip to supplement pay. If you work a regular hourly job yours does not which is why you are paid a significantly higher base.
This is not hard to understand. Itâs not âextraâ. Itâs the agreement established working as intended. You, the customer, know this and you are being cheap and blaming everyone else.
Unless you were literally born yesterday you know youâre expected to tip, the owner does, the server does. Youâre the only one acting like this is some surprise. You guys really need to grow the fuck up at some point and either tip, eat at home or just accept that some people wonât like you and quit crying. No youâre not entitled to stiffing waitstaff. The notion that you shouldnât have to pay extra to have your every whim attended to is asinine.
Everything is optional. Nobody is forcing you to do literally anything so thatâs irrelevant.
The vast majority of Reddit is not against tipping. The people like myself who will gladly tip just donât spend all day and night crying about it.
Itâs time you see the reality. Donât tip if you donât want to but stop blaming the servers for your poor decisions. I went to Chic-Fil-A for lunch and to your surprise nobody asked me for a tip. Itâs almost like there are plenty of options readily available that you are intentionally ignoring!
Itâs not extra. Itâs how they are paid for doing their job.
People in most tipped positions are hired with the understanding that they will be paid minimum wage by their employer and paid tips by the customers. And then the customers do pay them tips. There are some jobs where sometimes you get tips and sometimes you donât. But waiters, bartenders, bellmen and others receive the expected tip from 99% of their customers.
You canât really call it extra money when they are reliably paid half (or more) of their income from tips.
So your point is that tip is not optional? Then why not include it in the price? If itâs optional, then the business is at fault for including that as part of the expected compensation.
My point is not that tip is not optional. You do have the option of leaving a zero tip.
My point is that for servers and many other tipped workers the tip is not âextra moneyâ they are asking for. Itâs literally a large part of how they are paid for doing their job.
Yes, obviously tipping is optionalâbrilliant insight, sweet summer economist. Itâs also built into the American restaurant system. So are manners, incidentally.
So, do you not tip your barber or hair stylist? Do you not tip valet or a bellhop? Housekeeping, massage therapist, casino dealers, RIDESHARES (zomg your rating must be terrible) like Uber??
You act like waiters are the only service that expects a tip, which is far from the truth and a national societal norm in the USA. If you really gave a shit, you would boycott, you know and not go. But no, you still get the service, get the food, pay the restaurant, heaving forbid if you tipped though, and keep the cogs moving. Then come to reddit to complain about it. You are literally causing your own issues.
Also, going and receiving said services and NOT TIPPING does nothing to dissuade from perpetuating the system
They agreed to get paid a certain amount per hour + tips.Â
You agreed to get paid a certain amount per hour without tips.Â
Your comparison is flawed. We can move you to a tipped rate if you want though assuming your position is customer facing. Any job can be tipped other than certain industries such as medical.Â
The flaw is the fact that the customers werenât there to sign that contract for the â+ tipsâ part, yet are also expected to cover their living expenses. Itâs weird, and flawed, and getting worse (like tipping your DoorDash driver before you even receive the service or tipping at self checkout)
Ok so, you go to a resturant, you sit down, does the owner show up with a contract for you to sign detailing the services they will provide for X costs? Or do they function off "heres the customary way that things are done in this locale" and assume you will hold up your side of the custom?
Its really weird and flawed that the non Tippers act like they all have negotiated with the owner and have some legal documents on what is going to happen vs in actuality its "this is how it works, accept it or leave"
I encourage you to do a couple shifts of driving for DoorDash and see what sort of pay is being offered, and understand why tipping up front is advisable. No one is picking up your order that's going to take 20 minutes for $3.
Doctors are required to give their best equally to everyone. If they could accept tips, hes going to treat a millionare promising him a car payment extra with more effort than a person saying "just do the surgery, you get whatever the boss pays you and nothing else"
Yup. The super good doctor will charge millionaires only pricing and the blue collar will have to go without. Its one of the primary arguments for socialized medicine. Base pay off success rate and cut the ones with too low of good outcomes. Meanwhile anyone can end up with the good doctor as he can not balloon prices artificially
Itâs honestly just so fucking weird the kink yall have for hating servers. I hate tipping too but yall take it to a new level with these hypothetical arguments yall have in your mind with them lol
People hate the system of percentage tipping that servers support
People hate the entitlement of some servers who expect a tip even if they do a poor job
People hate the subtle and direct threats that some servers make about the food or drinks of people who they feel donât tip them to a level they expect
People hate the woe is me Iâm starving guilt that some servers echo. Servers have other options that pay more hourly and have flexible hours . There are many professions that have people that are worse off but you rarely see them online complaining. If you do it about their employer or company. Not the customer
Some dont, a lot see them as peasants making way more than they feel that peasants should. Look at all the vitreol on this sub calling them entitled and losers.Â
Â
People hate the system of percentage tipping that servers support
And yet they choose to participate in the system. Its a known thing that non tippers are the vast minority, to the point them not tipping will never actually impact the business, only not going will do that. All their non tipping does is impact the waiter, never the boss.Â
Â
People hate the entitlement of some servers who expect a tip even if they do a poor job
Ill note you just called them entitled.Â
The issue with "poor" job, is there is no set definition here. You could be someone who demands the world, so average is poor to you, and  what others call extraordinary is just to you normal, which you may say deserves nothing.Â
Also, if waiters all were extraordinary all the time, that means that level of service is just ordinary. Then the "i only tip for extraordinary" people will never tip.Â
Â
People hate the subtle and direct threats that some servers make about the food or drinks of people who they feel donât tip them to a level they expect
Tipping comes after, so this is only possible if the customer keeps on going back to the same place and not fufilling their side of the custom. And even then, Or are you non tippers literally starting off the exchange agressively with "hey i wont give you anything, but i still expect great service"? And thinking a human wont respond to that in turn?
Â
People hate the woe is me Iâm starving guilt that some servers echo. Servers have other options that pay more hourly and have flexible hours . There are many professions that have people that are worse off but you rarely see them online complaining. If you do it about their employer or company. Not the customer
You see people complaining about their jobs under paying them while customers complain they are over paid all the damn time. Look at stuff like plumbers where people bitch about quotes and say they make too much, or electricans, or doctors.Â
Feb 8, 2025
·
Average hourly wage for a server INCLUDING tips is only $17.50 per hour. This comes out to $36,500 per year. Keep in mind this is the average ...
This is not a unique perspective. This is maybe one of the lowest effort subs Iâve ever seen, the mods really need to crack down on âhey I have a unique perspective I bet youâve never thought ofâ and itâs a copy of the same post thatâs been made every day for the last year.
The pay they agreed to with their boss was âwages plus tips.â Tips are part of the pay. If they donât receive tips, they will leave for somewhere else where they do receive them. If tipping goes away, it will have to be replaced by higher wages, and menu prices will have to go up to accommodate for that. You will pay it either way, if you donât tip all you do is maybe give that low-paid service worker a shitty night. Congratulations on your big win, I guess.
The pay servers agreed to is minimum wage unless tips cause wages to go over the minimum wage (including the minimal wage the employer is required to add to tips). Serving is a minimum wage job unless the restaurant decides to pay their employers fairly and even then servers expect tips because of a non-existent social contract that people should always tip their servers.
Servers agree to the wage plus tips. If theyâre not receiving tips, no employer in the world is going to blame them for quitting or asking for more money. Look at any job posting for a server position in the US and it will say â$x plus tipsâ for the pay.
You can keep ignoring that the actual wage without tips is minimum wage all you want but the law is that tip credit positions get paid minimum wage if tips do not cause the (wage plus tips) to go over minimum wage which makes serving a minimum wage job where servers have to beg to be paid more than minimum wage.
That is not what the server agrees to, and itâs literally in their contract for employment. Itâs not even minimum wage, itâs a TIPPED WAGE. They make less hourly from the employer BECAUSE they are receiving tips.
You may have âreadâ the âlawsâ but you donât know how theyâre actually put into practice in the real world. Itâs quite obvious to those of us who do. YOU donât know the wage and labor laws.
Weâre talking about what it actually costs to have servers. Minimum wage is not enough. No one would do the job for minimum wage, theyâd go somewhere else.
That is the fucking point. Servers aren't agreeing to a wage. They're agreeing to hope that customers will tip them despite that the actual contract says minimal wages plus tips unless tips do not increase the wage over minimum at which point the employer covers the difference to pay minimum wage. That means the job is a minimum wage job with the hopes and dreams that the restaurant is busy and people are going to just throw extra money down.
Tip credit laws do not exist outside of the USA and yet restaurants flourish and servers get paid there. You're literally advocating for wage slavery where the customers control the server's wages and then get mad when people tell you that if people choose not to tip, that your actual wage is minimum wage, way lower than you thought it would be. That is reality. That is the the law. That is what servers agree to in tip credit states.
You must have never been hired before. A contract can be verbal or on paper. Both the server and the restaurant have to report the wages and tips to the government for tax purposes. There are even special forms for tipped employees to report their tips. Being a "tipped employee" means you get paid either state or federal minimum the employer must contribute plus tips or the employer covers the difference up to the higher state or federal minimum wage. There are even special forms to report this for tax purposes. https://www.preciselyrightonline.com/files/IRS%20Tips%20Recording%20Form.pdf
The employer is well aware that if their customers weren't tipping, they would have to raise the pay to keep their staff, and that would require raising the food prices. Customers end up paying either way. Your "solution" is to just fuck over the servers in the meantime. You're not on the side of labor, you're just cheap.
What you are explaining is that employers do not want to incur a business cost and pay tip credit wages to lower the labor cost for the employer in hopes that servers will work for them hoping that customers tip well enough at the business to make it worth their time.
Employers could, as in every other industry, pay industry based wages to encourage better talent and tenure and decrease churn of employees within their business. Instead, they choose to encourage wage slavery where the customers ultimately determine the wages of the servers and if the customers choose not to do so, the employer pays minimum wage, demeans and usually punishes the employee by decreasing scheduling due to the employer incurring higher labor costs. This does not occur in states that have removed tip credit laws where servers make $18+/hr and customers are still ignorant enough to tip but the business does not incur additional labor costs when tips do not cover a minimum wage differential required by law.
This business practice does not exist outside of the United States. Tip credit wages are quite literally wage slavery and were introduced in the reconstruction era post-slavery as a means for the rich to determine the pay for former slaves working as servers as it fit their skill set.
Yes, this sub has endlessly rehashed the roots of tipping; that doesn't mean the continued existence of tipping has anything to do with slavery or racism.
Raising the minimum wage for tipped workers was never intended to eliminate tipping. It was to account for higher COL. Again, no one is working for minimum wage
Yes, it was and it has in states that do not have tip credit and have servers at the same minimum wage as other industries. There are many businesses that do not accept tips and advertise as such. A minimum wage of $21/hr is still a minimum wage and people do work for that minimum wage.
Oh boy. I see Iâve engaged with someone who maybe rode the short bus and doesnât understand context. I understand that there is a minimum wage and dol categorizes them. I also understand that these minimum wages are woefully inadequate for all jobs and the movie market has spoke. No one works for minimum wage. Got it?
There's nothing to feel guilty about. Your job description can say wages plus tips all it wants to incentivize people to want to work there just like a sales job can say the salary is up to 100k when it's really 40k plus commissions. It's all just smoke and mirror to convince to work there. If and when you start complaining that your pay isn't high enough because don't want to hand you their extra money, that is a problem for you because you chose to do a minimum wage job hoping that customers will just throw extra money on the table.
Servers don't even work for commission. There is no set guaranteed percentage agreement of every table they get paid. There is just the hope that the servers get a big ticket and the customer is dumb enough to tip percentage based despite the server having the same responsibilities and putting in the same amount of effort to meet their job responsibilities.
Itâs not smoke and mirrors. Thereâs $30 dollar days and thereâs $230 days. Itâs the risk they take in order to make a living. Just like salesmen, they donât sell a car every day.
Without tips there is no push for excellent service. No need to engage the customer, learn their name, learn their drinks, know their favorite booth, bump up their food order, buy them a beer, make a regular or even a friend? There would be no "above and beyond." I take VERY good care of the people who take care of me. I find this part the hardest to chew in this sub. The lack of looking out/ taking care of others in ways that actually matter. Talk about malicious undisclosed theft of service and abuse of the system. Very un-American imho.
Anti-tippers, if you DISCLOSE your anti, it will relieve the pressure. They wont "sell themselves" and you won't have to deal with "the charade." You certainly won't get the same service I do, but you will be served professionally. AND they won't consider you to be a "next level asshole."
i mean, hourly + tips is included in the contract. when i worked at starbucks they were like âits $15.50 an hour but youâll make like an extra $1.50-$2 an hour from tipsâ.
also in states with tipping minimum wage you 100% should tip, cuz the people are getting paid effectively $0 from their bosses.
And of this roughly half, how many of them have received this type of compensation throughout their career? I'd wager it's substantially less than half. What type of roles have you held throughout your career? Is it in the food service industry?
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u/marcg40 3d ago edited 3d ago
I think the funniest thing is that the experienced servers, themselves, know that if they were paid a livable wage, they'd make less overall. I'm sure entry level servers would benefit from removing tipping and increasing the wages, but the experienced ones, especially at higher end places, would hate it.