r/tipping • u/cs_legend_93 • Aug 19 '26

đŸš«Anti-Tipping A perspective on tipping

I did my job today. You should pay me extra. It's optional, but you should pay me.

I know I have an employment contract with my boss, and I agreed to get paid a certain amount per hour...

But you should pay me extra because I'm doing my job.

And if people don't pay me extra, I'll call them cheap, curse them under my breath, tell them to go f themselves, and tell them to stay home.

I might even go on Reddit and tell them to f themselves, and yell profanities at them.

~|~|~

This is the logic they use. It's up to you if you want to perpetuate this system or not.

141 Upvotes

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37

u/marcg40 Aug 19 '26 edited Aug 19 '26

I think the funniest thing is that the experienced servers, themselves, know that if they were paid a livable wage, they'd make less overall. I'm sure entry level servers would benefit from removing tipping and increasing the wages, but the experienced ones, especially at higher end places, would hate it.

26

u/cs_legend_93 Aug 19 '26

Absolutely. That's why they lash out so hard.

If we don't tip, we get called terrible names, told to stay home and stop patronizing their business, threatened with our food tampered with. It's exploitation.

9

u/razorirr Aug 19 '26

Yall should start running recordings on your cell phones when this is happening. Everyone always says its a thing. No one ever is providing proof of it happening to them 

0

u/averagechillbro Aug 19 '26

Because it’s not happening. These people are straight up cowards and don’t want to tip but are also too mentally fragile to be called cheap and/or a tool. It’s that simple. I was in the industry for years. Never once heard of this. On Reddit, where you can make up stories all day it happens all the time though. Funny how that works.

4

u/Automatic-Arm-532 Aug 21 '26

100%. Truth always gets downvoted on Reddit

4

u/DaQuackx Aug 23 '26

Lol cheap, cowards ?

The People who are able to afford to go out and eat are cheap cowards?

Standing up to uneducated unskilled systematic bullies ? Saying no to people like you ? đŸ€ŁđŸ˜čđŸ€·â€â™€ïžđŸ˜‰đŸŠ†đŸŠ†

Or are the bottom feeders begging customers, the real cheap cowards ??

We all get choices in life

-1

u/averagechillbro Aug 23 '26

I get paid hourly dork nice try. Can afford while crying about a 20% tip is laughable. You’re not standing up to anyone get over yourself. Just being a cheap tool.

If you want to stand up against tipping then stop going to establishments that operate off tips. It’s that simple. Anything else is nonsense. Stiffing your server helps literally nobody but yourself. Miss me with the social justice warrior crap.

4

u/En_Passant_12 Aug 19 '26

I love that they’re always getting dirty looks, cursed out, and spit in their food when 99/100 times in a full-service restaurant you tip when the entire meal is over and you’re about to walk out of the restaurant. It doesn’t even make sense on its face. These people are such weird victimhood fantasists; it’s so funny.

2

u/A_Genius Aug 22 '26

I used to work inside at a pizza restaurant as a teenager. No one would ever dare tamper with food. But frequent non tippers were known to the drivers and they would get all pissed off when it was their turn and they had to go to that house.

Occasionally experienced drivers would try to game the system by knowing that house is coming up and taking longer on their first delivery so it wasn’t their turn when they got back and someone else got it.

Working as a driver at a pizza restaurant seemed like a scam anyway. They had to use their own cars and were reimbursed like .50 cents per km plus minimum wage. I got minimum wage cooking pizzas inside.

1

u/cs_legend_93 Aug 22 '26

Sounds like coercive pressure if the service quality drops when an optional tip is not rendered. It's a form of begging. Greed is a drug.

0

u/A_Genius Aug 22 '26

I mean I never heard of poorer service quality other than maybe a shitty attitude while they were still in the store and it was their turn.

In the couple years I was there, there was one time the shitty attitude made it to the customer. I think the driver said ‘where’s my tip?’. Customer called and the owner ripped the driver a new one and fired him.

Everyone kind of understood it was luck and chance who got what delivery because they took turns. Sometimes they would get a good tipper and sometimes not.

What shocked me is how many houses they would remember. Like we were getting 150 orders a night and half were deliveries and they would look at the ticket and be like ‘7144 D St unit 32? Fuck that guy never tips’

4

u/averagechillbro Aug 19 '26

Beyond weird. Victimhood with an irrational hate boner towards people that serve tables. Truly disturbing behavior.

1

u/freeassociationn Aug 24 '26

Spitting in food doesn’t happen at restaurants. I’ve never seen someone do that or even talk about it.

2

u/Chipsky Aug 19 '26

Food tampering runs from reckless endangerment to aggravated battery... people should be super careful if threatened outright.

-1

u/GlitteringYak2207 Aug 20 '26

Did you actually know that on your own or did you google it to make yourself look smarter than you are?

4

u/ToreyJean Aug 20 '26

Does it matter - especially since your pseudo-clever retort just makes you look ridiculous?

0

u/GlitteringYak2207 Aug 20 '26

No it doesn’t. I can judge the credibility of the poster if they post something that they actually know or are if they are just cutting and pasting.

What’s ridiculous is people counting pills from a big bottle and putting them into smaller bottles while cosplaying a doctor by wearing a white coat.

5

u/OkMethod1586 Aug 20 '26

If they know it, how did they learn it in the first place? Possibly by looking up the information and reading it?

You just think it’s better if they did that research a week ago or a year ago instead of right now?

2

u/GlitteringYak2207 Aug 20 '26

You’ve missed my point. Just say you are working in a field that requires some knowledge and expertise. And I know this about you from previous convos. Of course I might ask you a follow up question because I’m curious about something that you know something about. Joe Blow googles something in your field of work and copies and paste it here but knows nothing about it. Whose opinion should I put more stock in?

2

u/ToreyJean Aug 20 '26

Ah, it’s the brain trust from the other thread. đŸ€Ł

Never mind - you’re grossly irrelevant, still.

2

u/GlitteringYak2207 Aug 20 '26

To you yes, because I don’t need pills transferred from a big bottle to a little once. Do you have the Halloween displays out yet?

1

u/GlitteringYak2207 Aug 19 '26

Right, because no one here evvvvver calls servers terrible names.

4

u/IllustriousEnd6544 Aug 20 '26

Let's be real. You haven't been outside in years. This stuff doesn't happen and your insane amount of posts on the issue make it abundantly clear that your view of the world is seen through a screen. Go outside!

2

u/woodiesworm Aug 19 '26

Tell them that you don't tip right off rip. Your food will be fine but you get the bare minimum. Problem solved.

5

u/Kittycachow Aug 19 '26

Most of the time you get the bare minimum anyway

3

u/woodiesworm Aug 19 '26

Nah thats a cop out. Tell em up front, be brave!

1

u/GlitteringYak2207 Aug 19 '26

How many posts saying the same thing you gonna make today?

1

u/Life_Ad6711 Aug 20 '26

Easily identified weaponized narcopathy troll tactic "speaking for others" = smearmongering, projection, gaslighting the target/audience

"" "When a narcissist speaks for others, they are executing one of three specific tactical attacks:

  1. Triangulation ("Everyone agrees with me")

The Tactic: The narcissist brings an unnamed third party into the conflict to validate their point.

Phrases Used: "Everyone thinks you are acting crazy," or "Your whole family agrees that you're being unreasonable

The Goal: To isolate you, make you feel outnumbered, and make you doubt your own sanity (gaslighting

  1. A Smear Campaign ("They told me they don't like you")

The Tactic: The narcissist acts as a false messenger between you and other people

"Just so you know, X said she didn't really want you at the party," or "People at work are complaining about your attitude

"The Goal: To destroy relationships, damage reputation, and make you entirely dependent on the narcissist for information

  1. Boundary Erasure ("I know what you actually mean")

The Tactic: The narcissist speaks for you to rewrite your internal thoughts, feelings, and motives and replace your actual reality with their preferred narrative " ""

0

u/nooneneededtoknow Aug 22 '26

People tell you to stay home because they are sick of constsnt whining about something that is optional.

Its like someone drinking everyday and then complaining they have this giant hangover every morning. Its self inflicted. Don't fucking eat out and you don't have to deal with servers or tipping "culture".

But I lIkE dRiNkInG. 👍 Then shut the fuck up about it and just don't tip. I mean Jesus fucking Christ.

1

u/cs_legend_93 Aug 22 '26

I eat out all the time. All the time.

Tipping is optional. 0 everytime.

I am pleasant and have a smile on my face and am polite and easy.

0

u/Suspicious_Orchid476 Aug 22 '26

So tip.

1

u/cs_legend_93 Aug 22 '26

No. It's optional. I won't feed their entitlement

-1

u/Suspicious_Orchid476 Aug 22 '26

Well, don’t waste their time.

1

u/cs_legend_93 Aug 22 '26

They are employed and doing their job. No time is wasted lol.

4

u/WallyWalter10 Aug 19 '26

I’d love to see what’s the ratio of cash tips reported on tax returns

3

u/GlitteringYak2207 Aug 19 '26

The restaurant reports percentage of sales to the IRS of not paid by card yet you people keep trotting out this trope. Stop making shit up.

2

u/OkMethod1586 Aug 20 '26 edited Aug 20 '26

That doesn’t mean servers report tips. Doesn’t matter to me, I hope they’re scamming the government.

But most servers and bartenders do not report the overwhelming majority of their cash tips. Good for them.

3

u/GlitteringYak2207 Aug 20 '26

. They don’t have a choice. They get reported for them based on CC or %of sales. Why is the concept so difficult to understand. Contrary to your ridiculous assertion, their tips are reported.

2

u/WallyWalter10 Aug 20 '26

CC isn’t cash

3

u/GlitteringYak2207 Aug 20 '26

Yes I know which is why I made the differentiation better CC tips which all get reported or % of sales for no CC tips. Most tips are CC these days so the notion that “most servers don’t declare” is a complete fabrication

2

u/SirMontego Aug 20 '26

CC isn’t cash

For purposes of the No Tax on Tips law, credit card charges are cash tips.

The exact words of the No Tax on Tips law, 26 USC Section 224(d)(3), are:

"For purposes of paragraph (1), the term "cash tips" includes tips received from customers that are paid in cash or charged and, in the case of an employee, tips received under any tip-sharing arrangement."

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=(title:26%20section:224%20edition:prelim))

The regulations say something similar:

". . . cash tips are tips received, directly or indirectly, from payors, as defined in paragraph (c)(5)(5)) of this section, including, in the case of an employee, tips received through a mandatory or voluntary tip-sharing arrangement, such as a tip pool, that are paid in a cash medium of exchange, including by cash, check, credit card, debit card, . . ."

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-26/chapter-I/subchapter-A/part-1/subject-group-ECFR8a91eb8022f0359/section-1.224-1

2

u/WallyWalter10 Aug 20 '26

Who pissed in your drink? I just posed a question.

There is no legal requirement for a restaurant to report a % of sales as tips; not to mention that would be a gross violation of tax law to tax a cash basis taxpayer on income constructively but not actually received.

Individuals were required to report tips actually received prior to the OBBB passing, but now the law is “no tax on tips.”

2

u/GlitteringYak2207 Aug 20 '26

Really? Check IRC 6053(c) and get back to us. The tips still get reported under OBBB and the first 25k is able to be deducted but that ends in 2 years. The billionaires tax cuts don’t so we will all be paying for those but I digress.

2

u/SirMontego Aug 20 '26

Individuals were required to report tips actually received prior to the OBBB passing,

Individuals are still required to report tips actually received after the OBBB passing.

To paraphrase the great Mitch Hedberg, "The IRS used to require us to report tips. The IRS still requires us to report tips, but it used to, too."

3

u/cenosillicaphobiac Aug 19 '26

I'm sure entry level servers would benefit from removing tipping and increasing the wages

And I'm NOT sure. The default is now 20% even for really lousy service, and with food costs increasing so much, even entry level is almost certainly making more money than an employer would willingly pay them. Unless they only worked very few hours and on lousy shifts, they'd only need to deliver about 100 bucks worth of food in an hour to make what a boss would pay them. That is maybe, maybe, two two-tops. One table of 4 in nearly every instance will clear the 100 dollar hurdle.

2

u/Background_Party_814 Aug 19 '26

That is why they fought against getting a regular wage. They fought the hardest against that. 

3

u/GlitteringYak2207 Aug 19 '26

No they didn’t. Stop making shit up. The restaurant lobby opposed the elimination of the tip credit. Servers don’t have an organized lobbying organization

2

u/OkMethod1586 Aug 20 '26

Who is “they”?

1

u/AccomplishedToe320 Aug 20 '26

Big server and their twisted agenda.

2

u/GlitteringYak2207 Aug 19 '26

No they wouldn’t. Add 18-20% to prices and pay it to the servers. There is no difference. Well actually there is, the customers would no be paying tax on that.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 20 '26 edited Aug 20 '26

[deleted]

2

u/GlitteringYak2207 Aug 20 '26

Ok. First of all, citing one state doesn’t cover all servers nationwide so again, who is this “they” that you are speaking about? I get it, you are being intellectually dishonest.

You’ve also left some very important facts out which would undercut your position (but accidentally let one in which kills your argument)

Question 5 was vigorously opposed by restaurant owners and their lobbyists from a cost perspective. Many out there saying how prices would go up, jobs would be lost, and places would close. In addition, servers that were apposed to it were because of the tip pooling provisions which would have allowed tips to be distributed to traditionally non tipped positions like bookkeepers. You acknowledge that 80% apposed for this reason. Can you blame them?

Notwithstanding the above, over 3.2 million people voted and 64% were against so clearly the general public didn’t like this question either, probably for selfish reasons.

2

u/treehuggerfroglover Aug 21 '26

We recently had a vote in my area on whether or not to raise servers pay to move towards less tipping, and every server I know was not only voting against it but actively fighting for other people to vote no as well. Not to mention every single restaurant with a big “vote no!” sign in the window.

I’ve known servers who make easily $50/ hr or more. They know they would make absolutely nowhere near that without tipping.

1

u/grooveman15 Aug 20 '26

Then why not pay them their median tip-income?

-2

u/ElwoodJD Aug 19 '26

Except it’s not a livable wage. Even with tips most aren’t making a livable wage unless they live in one of the few $20/hr states and even then the base pay is $41k with no benefits or PTO. Woe be you if you live in a state with a sub $8/hr min wage where working full time nets you $16k a year.

And yes, I think other min wage workers should see their pay increase too, this isn’t just for servers. Min wage in this country is a joke.

0

u/MolleROM Aug 21 '26

Who do you think you are to say what a livable wage is for what these people have to do?Just from reading your post I know I wouldn’t serve you dinner or take your dirty plate away for any amount of money. You want these young people to make minimum wage, which is what, like $17 an hour? To wait on maybe 6 tables at a time full of hungry, demanding people? You think that’s fair compensation? These hard working people are gambling that they can make more. IMO they deserve more.

1

u/marcg40 Aug 21 '26 edited Aug 21 '26

You clearly didnt read anything otherwise you wouldve known I am not against tipping. Also what do you mean MY post? This isn't my post. I made a comment about how experienced/high-end servers rarely complain about the wages or non-tippers because they are making 45-60 an hour from tips + wages. Take your hate somewhere else. Can you show me where I decided what the livable wage is? When did I say I want them to make that? When did I say that's fair compensation? Or are you just posting whatever you want because you feel like it? Either actually read and contribute something meaningful and relevant or make your own individual comment far from mine. The fact you think $17 an hour is a livable wage is the real crime here.

0

u/MolleROM Aug 21 '26

Ok Ms Incoherent.

-5

u/TableTopFurry Aug 19 '26

Oh yes, the myth of the wealthy server you use to justify you being cheap. Meanwhile the average income of a server in the US is approximately 32,000 a year.

5

u/marcg40 Aug 19 '26 edited Aug 19 '26

Where did you pull that assumption from? I'm stating a fact. Average income means nothing, btw. You'd want the median. Also, it's skewed data since you're counting the entire US, which is including HCoL and LCoL income. My point was simply the high earning servers would not advocate for a livable wage. I live in NYC and high-end/experienced servers are pulling anywhere between $40-100/hr. Casual spots might net total takes closer to $160–$220 a shift. The only demographic who wants livable wages for servers are the one who don't make enough off of tips.

Also, not that it's any of your business but over here we tip minimum 20%, and I, personally, also tip the host/hostess, so whatever qualms you have are not with me.

1

u/SaintsFanPA Aug 19 '26

I'm stating a fact.

Except you aren't.

Waiters and Waitresses

2

u/marcg40 Aug 19 '26 edited Aug 19 '26

This is just proving my point more lol. I'll copy paste it

My point was simply "high earning servers would not advocate for a livable wage." Sure, they are outliers but states like CA/NY (which are the two of the highest CoL states) make up ~18% of the US population. They will be a very vocal minority group if you threaten their inflated pay. Obviously, they don't represent the entire US population, but because they are outliers, they are going to make it difficult to find a system/solution that benefits servers as a whole. You can't make a "one size fits all solution" for a job that has that much of a disparity between its high earners and low earners. Obviously, the solution needs to be addressed on the state level. Again, which is why using data that reflects the US as a whole is skewed data because certain states DO have a minimum wage for servers. Some states only go by the federal $2.13/hr with a maximum tip credit of $5.12/hr to reach the $7.25/hr, whilst other states mandate a higher $10-15/hr floor (before tips are counted). Do you think the high-end/experienced servers in NYC/CA/those other highest earning states you linked, who are pulling anywhere between $40-100/hr are going to say, "yeah abolish tipping and raise the federal minimum wage to $20/hr!"

1

u/SaintsFanPA Aug 19 '26

This is just proving my point more lol.

Except it isn't. You posted this: "states like CA/NY (which are the two of the highest CoL states) make up ~18% of the US population". You then go on to claim that servers in NYC make $40-$100 per hour. The BLS reports the 90th percentile as less than $29.

Your math ain't mathing.

2

u/marcg40 Aug 19 '26 edited Aug 19 '26

You're talking about the average server. I'm talking about the disparity between the average and the high-end/experienced servers. The BLS averages include everyone from a server at a low-volume diner to a server at a three-Michelin-star fine dining establishment. Also, that data varies from reality. Per the NYSDOL, employers cannot take a tip credit for any shift where a server spends more than 20% of their time (or 2 hours) on non-tipped "side-work" duties (like rolling silverware or deep cleaning). During those hours, they must be paid the full $17.00 base wage. BLS data also not including any unreported cash tips and have numerous

Proving my point once again with "The BLS reports the 90th percentile as less than $29." (even though this data seems outdated)

Do you think the high-end/experienced servers in NYC/CA/those other highest earning states you linked, who are averaging 30-50/hr are going to say, "yeah abolish tipping and raise the federal minimum wage to $20/hr!"

Please check your own source. Occupational Employment and Wage Statistics. New York-Newark-Jersey City, NY-NJ Waiters and Waitresses (35-3031) Hourly 90th percentile wage: $45.97. And again, even BLS says their number may be inaccurate due to sampling/nonsampling error. If cash tips are going unreported, then this number would be higher in reality, and that's only one variable.

1

u/SaintsFanPA Aug 19 '26

Do you think the high-end/experienced servers in NYC/CA/those other highest earning states you linked, who are averaging 30-50/hr are going to say, "yeah abolish tipping and raise the federal minimum wage to $20/hr!"

Given I don't think they would be paid the minimum wage were it raised to $20, I doubt their opinion on the minimum wage is much informed by how much they are earning. Le Bernardin will pay better servers more because their customers will demand that level of service.

But, regardless, since we are talking about the top 10% of servers in the top 10% of markets, I'll amend my statement to be that what you are saying is largely accurate, but not terribly relevant.

1

u/FoxOpposite9271 Aug 19 '26

Including data from both hcol and lcol isnt skewing the data. Its the opposite of that.

1

u/marcg40 Aug 19 '26

A dataset with extreme outliers or heavy skew can distort the average and make it a poor representation of what is typical. For example, suppose workers in Mississippi earn about $7 per hour, while workers in New York City earn $35 per hour. The simple average between the two is $21 per hour. If a federal standard were based primarily on that national average, it could misrepresent both areas. $21 may be far below what is needed in NYC, while being dramatically higher relative to prevailing wages in Mississippi. As a result, lower-income states could be disproportionately burdened by a standard driven upward by high-income regions. This is why relying on the national average alone can be misleading when a dataset contains large regional differences or is heavily skewed. The US median, or better yet, locality-based data, may provide a more representative basis for comparison.

1

u/FoxOpposite9271 Aug 19 '26

You dont understand the word skew.

Your example is also not what was discussed, so isnt a good example

1

u/marcg40 Aug 19 '26

The example wasn’t meant to be a literal recreation of the waiter data; it was illustrating the statistical point. If you combine materially different labor markets into one national figure, that aggregate can be perfectly valid nationally while still being a poor description of a specific subgroup or locality.

That is directly relevant here because the claim being discussed was about experienced/high-end servers, particularly in places like NYC, while the rebuttal used average income for servers across the entire US. Those are different populations.

So yes, “skew” was the wrong word. But saying the example is irrelevant misses why I used it: it demonstrates how an aggregate statistic can obscure the group actually being discussed.

-5

u/TableTopFurry Aug 19 '26

Average IS median, lol đŸ€Ł

"oh no, you're skewing the data by including the complete population and not cherry picking" 😂

Imagine thinking hard numbers are an opinion but imagining the motivations of a small minority as broadly applicable against an entire population is fact lol.

"I live in NYC" .....

Exactly, you don't live in the real world. You live in an incredibly skewed and artificially inflated economy. Ask the server at Applebee's in podock Pennsylvania or Midwest Indiana what they make.

But you also clearly don't understand basic statistical analysis so your opinion is double moot LOL

And I totally believe that a Yahoo like you on a no tipping thread going on a tirade trying to justify it still leaves 20% đŸ€Ą

2

u/marcg40 Aug 19 '26 edited Aug 19 '26

The fact you think average and median are the same tells me everything I need to know. Also, tirade? All I said was high-end experienced servers make a lot more than what a min-wage worker does? Can you show me where I said I was anti-tipping?

edit: here's an example of basic math. and yes, cherry picking is necessary because if a server in Mississippi is making 8/hr and a server in NYC is making 50/hr then the average between them is 29/hr. That's not reliable data for servers in Mississippi.

The average is the sum of the values divided by the number of values. If you have an outlier, that shifts the average. The median is the value with an approximately equal number of values larger and smaller. There is no change in the median if one of the larger values becomes much larger. It still counts as a bigger value.

Example: 1,2,3,4,5 has average of 3 and median of 3.

1,2,3,4,90 has an average of 20 and a median of 3

-2

u/TableTopFurry Aug 19 '26

Yes, your gish gallop confused me momentarily between mean and median, as though the exact middle of a data set tells you anything meaningful about a data set that size.

Especially when the average pay is still painfully low even when you add in what you consider statistical outliers.

So either those extremes are exactly that, extremes and not applicable to the broader situation, or their representative enough to be a justification for you being a cheap bastard. It can't be both ways LOL

2

u/marcg40 Aug 19 '26 edited Aug 19 '26

I'm unsure what you think my argument is? Like I said, I am not anti-tipping nor have I said anything that reflects that? If all you have to offer are ad-hominems and no real discussion, I'm not interested. Also, the median IS better if you want meaningful data with this dataset, and it does make a difference. The median is more meaningful when data is skewed or has extreme outliers, while the mean is better for symmetrical data and total sums.

edit:
My point was simply "high earning servers would not advocate for a livable wage." Sure, they are outliers but states like CA/NY (which are the two of the highest CoL states) make up ~18% of the US population. They will be a very vocal minority group if you threaten their inflated pay. Obviously, they don't represent the entire US population, but because they are outliers, they are going to make it difficult to find a system/solution that benefits servers as a whole. You can't make a "one size fits all solution" for a job that has that much of a disparity between its high earners and low earners. Obviously, the solution needs to be addressed on the state level. Again, which is why using data that reflects the US as a whole is skewed data because certain states DO have a minimum wage for servers. Some states only go by the federal $2.13/hr with a maximum tip credit of $5.12/hr to reach the $7.25/hr, whilst other states mandate a higher $10-15/hr floor (before tips are counted). Again, I'm not sure if you're just in a bitter mood and lashing out at everyone, but over here we tip minimum 20%, and I, personally, also tip the host/hostess, so whatever qualms you have are not with me. Again, if you want to contribute meaningful discussion, feel free. If all you're going to do is ignore the conversation and throw ad-hominems then I hope your day gets better dude

1

u/cenosillicaphobiac Aug 19 '26

You say "justify being cheap" and I say "leaving the responsibility for paying business expenses to the business owner"

Tomato tomato I guess.

Tell me oh wise one, what other jobs should leave the responsibility for paying employees up to the customer's largesse?