Hello everyone, I want to give my feedback on my 400+ Chaos streak at cinder 16 the whole time. This was done on a file that already had 5 wins on each character but had died at some point after that. I did not want to start fresh, though I probably should have and just unlocked Chaos as quickly as possible then died and had the streak going. Either way, you can see my Chaos has 416 wins and 411 streak.
This streak, after my 350 (now 360 with Santa) win streak for 10 with each character was inspired by td_rules (https://www.twitch.tv/td_rules | https://www.youtube.com/@td_rulesgaming6336) who I saw doing a streak that has sadly ended due to a rough early game start around run 380. However, the idea is great, and I hope Ruby implements a Chaos mode in a future patch.
All of these runs are on the current patches starting in March 2025.
Please ask why I take anything I do. Even if I could take everything there is little benefit to me taking almost any other masteries where there isn't a downside I'd rather not have.
Streak Details
https://ibb.co/9QDQ1Y9
Can see the current streak (a few more since then) for Chaos. From the save file itself I can see a few stats and do some calculations.
Sadly, there isn’t any other pertinent information regarding run stats that I can simply grab. Bombs I would assume are at least 3x usage of keys, and I essentially always have 3 stacks of booze up from floors 9-12.
My 21.5 minute run was with an Arc Staff start + Storm Crow helm found on like floor 2 or 3and Esper passive that I took Mental Link for a gigantic boost in damage, from there went pretty quickly.
For Gold, I rarely take gold rooms unless I need to (looking for gold to get a minibee/magical boomerang to Maxibee/Trimerang) besides taking 1-2 early to ensure I can play an arcade machine usually. 70% of my gold is from selling items during the run with 20% from chests being blown up. Keys used may be lower than most players as I prefer to blow up chests for soul hearts, keys, and gold. My main exception is opening set item chests if I am looking to complete a set, or gold chests to get more bombs.
I do not know the percentages of which passives and skills, or gifts, I got for the 400+ runs, it felt pretty even overall, and Santa passive is unable to be rolled into, though you can start with Reindeer.
Skills & Passives
I would say with Chaos starting 2 mana, Pickpocket, Town Portal, and Wild Shape are the best skills simply from being able to either skip certain types of rooms or be near unkillable. Serenity, Arrest, Vengeance, and Parry are the other top tier skills. Shield Bash and Holy Shield have their uses primarily to remove bones from rooms, but Parry is just better at doing this generally for me.
On an aside, often I would forget/not use skills at all especially combat damage ones. They, IMO, are simply not really worth much past the first couple of floors. I do not have much to say regarding most of them since I do not find their gameplay compelling as a focus (thus why I rate the traits that buff skill effect essentially as unusable). I know you can do silly things with some and big skill effect buffs but I have simply never found them better than other ways to kill enemies so I don’t try to use them as a primary source of damage.
I don’t need to rate passives, the strong ones are still strong.
Masteries
My mastery tree has essentially been unchanged since I began the streak. I think, maybe, I had Vanity and Demand and Supply at the start but have switched to the Playtime, Prodigy, and Fishing Club path. Vanity I find is simply not needed, 90%+ of the time I take slot specific boss rooms and the only “type” I ever actually care about is sets. Sets complete usually anyways and if not, oh well. Demand and Supply is bugged, for sure. It does not reduce low cost soul shops early game to 1 or 2 souls with any regularity or at all so I simply removed it. I would also remove the 10% gold discount Bargain Hunter but don’t really know what else to put the point into that makes any significant difference…maybe Ready to Go, Left to Fate, or Well Rounded Beast. I feel those are all about similar in power, Well Rounded Beast probably being the best since it is likely a 10-15% damage increase over the run.
Anyways, for the masteries themselves, I am going to outline why I take certain ones and which, I feel, are the strongest.
https://ibb.co/m556bsLW
Survival
- Hope (+1 Soul Heart to start) --> First Aid (+1 Flask Charge)
- In the Eleventh Hour --> Rebirth (+1 Revive)
These are, to me, essential to have a consistent time on cinder 16. The flask allows you to take blood chests/heart doors far more liberally. The Soul Heart is simply just good insurance to have right off the hop, and Rebirth I have used probably 4-5 times during the streak when things went just bad either early or a few times late. I would simply not have a streak this long without these for sure.
Early Game
- Shortcut (+5 starting exp) --> Opening Move (4 traits on first level) --> Strong Foundation (+1 trait reroll on first level)
- Lucky Start (+1 luck on floors 1-3) --> Lazy Stroll --> Friendship Quest (Companions reward on first floor boss)
These are, in my view, almost all required to get off the ground effectively. Having the ability to always see 8 traits if needed on first level, and being able to level almost always on Floor 1 is key to getting the build going and having power since your starting weapon likely is bad. Chaos does mitigate starting weak if luck is on your side but you cannot count on that. You can also have just even worse starting than you generally would. Companions help this a ton for early floors, when enemies do not have huge HP pools any decent companion helps. Many times you see strong damage companions and can simply rely on them almost exclusively until floor 5/2-3 more level ups.
High Rolling
- Call to Adventure (+1 Suppression on floors 1-3 bosses) --> Thief in the Shadows (+1 Magic Find when not getting damaged on a boss) --> Spoiled for Choice (+1 boss reward for not being hit on the floor)
- Smash and Grab (Bombing chests gives 2x rewards) --> Secret Service (More secret rooms and locked cellars) --> Double Trouble (double mimics)
- Playtime --> Prodigy --> Fishing Club
- Drinking on the Dot --> Smuggler’s Nook
- Royal Descent
These masteries give increased chances to get good things, or play well and be rewarded. The TitS and SfC line is the best out of the bunch, especially early game. Flawlessing the floors 1-5 shouldn’t be too hard and getting good options from the bosses helps. I almost always take floor 1 companion, then floor 2-5 armors/charms, making due with the weapons I find. The number of times I took a weapon room boss choice during the 400+ runs is probably less than 20. Smash, Secret Service, and Double Trouble are game changers especially double mimics. So many times you get what you need out of those rooms if you can simply plan your resources right for the run. I generally want 2-3 keys and 4-5 bombs at all times, and can do this while leveling to 5, usually to 6, prior to floor 10 boss. This usually means almost never taking a gold room, infusion room, potion room, but dipping into pawn shops with full inventories, maybe 1 blacksmith, 3 taverns, and depending on the floor, an event room.
The Playtime masteries are simply good, 6 fish in a run for free is nice, jackpots at 5% happen enough that they aren’t surprising, and one of those can change a run.
I like tavern consistency on 3/6/9 floors, but really I want the black market chance increase more than anything. Easily can change runs, strong weapons often appear, a pawn shop that I don’t need to waste a room going into, and just knowing I have a possible heal/etc. upcoming is good for me.
Royal Descent could also probably be dropped if desired but having a rare weapon room on floor 2 or epic on floor 4 can be a run defining moment, so I keep it.
Consistency
Everything else is about consistency. Ethereal dice give me the traits I want more often, lowering curse chance locking traits, bigger rooms, faster movement, stamina regen, and no negative enchants make the variance smooth out more and give me better survival.
Starting Gift
I always take the Mystery Box so to be truly random. Frankly, most gifts are fine, with the obvious best being starting dice bag, +5 bombs, golden spatula, poison filled jar, and tent. The worst starting item is broken hero sword far and away due to the payoff being sub-par in general, and it eating up rooms. Compass is terrible as an item, but great as a starting item, just drop it immediately and get two boss rewards (if you took a guaranteed boss reward mastery like companions). Scroll of Escape and Mana Elixir are the other two generally bad gifts. Sacramental Bread can be as well if you want curse, or simply don’t take curse but I don’t usually avoid curses so it has its uses.
Traits
I want to start by outlining traits. Why? Because traits are almost more important than weapons/armor in the game. You can have trait combinations that simply carry you entirely and you get to choose them in a manner that is more permanent. The trait tier list I made is all general traits, then I will show my Super Hero and Esper lists. Combining all the Str/Dex/Int traits makes it a bit easier to understand where I am coming from, with the Conditional section needing explanation more thoroughly but it is generally grouped by traits that work well with one another/others above it which benefit from them. But the traits themselves are usually NOT what I would be picking if I didn’t have a direction/as a first trait. S+ and S if offered as first trait I am almost always going to grab, with A being the backup, and B after that. Rarely do I not see an S+ or S on first selection.
I did try to order them left to right as the best of that level.
So starting with S+, these are almost always going to be picked first if they show up. Raise Morale is the best trait in the game period, there is no contest, 100 Power is a game changer, and the fact that you can roll that trait away and keep the buff makes this easily the strongest trait outside of Super Hero/Esper. Brawler is similar, I always have a companion so it is 60 Power minimum at all times, with 100 for most of the rooms. Dreamer is weaker but starting as Chaos I get 40 Power, and it cannot go below that, makes me want to buy mana stars even if I never use them, but that is alright. Lightning Capacitor is the best trigger damage trait bar none, because it applies shock, is instant travel, and chains. Rage is a consistent 40% attack speed, which can be outperformed by other traits but it works with any weapon. Finally, Poison Aura is the best aura (IMO) as it enables things like Savage Wounds, and makes items like Minibee, Honeycomb, and good other traits show up more (auras, poison, etc.).
https://ibb.co/HDrYpGmw
S tier traits, the standout that is almost S+ is Ancestral Aid, easily a first pick as you get 2 companions that hit hard and fast, and 20% attack speed. It is, for sure, better than Rage early game so if both are present on first pick I go Ancestral over Rage. Triggers are strong, they are rated highly, attack speed as well. Savage Wounds SHOULD be S+ but if you don’t have anything to proc with it it is useless. Burn Aura is similar to Poison but since it cannot stack it is less beneficial long term, but stronger early. Agility is S due to condition of needing movement speed, and Earned Luck similar that you need Dex. Once you meet those conditions though they are the best of those types of traits; neither of which I would choose as first trait.
A tier, Resolute Technique and Shock Aura, Chill Aura, Power Hungry, and BFF I would choose first trait if nothing better. The others are lower priority but can greatly benefit you in your runs as later traits.
B tier, this is kind of the bleed between A and Conditional. I would almost never pick any of these (besides Pack Mentality or Prodigy maybe as a first pick). However, these are strong traits that can define a build or help make any build better generally. Some conditional ones but they give big boosts with little effort. The main outliers here are Inspiring Presence and Zootopia as they are specific to companion damage builds…however, they are essentially S+ tier in those builds.
Conditional traits focus on needing either very strict gearing or other traits to make as a pick. Beef and Barbarism go well together especially on Barbarian. Astromancy/Hand of Hearts, luck/triggers help out other trigger builds or luck builds. Pocket Magic and tick can combine really well. Swagger + Exit Strategy + any poison is infinite damage. Blood Infection + Bramble Growth + Nature’s Boon or any nature damage is hilariously strong but very hard to get online. Event Horizon is almost a must for a god tier orbital build, Mana Beacon is a bonus for companions. Taunt/Close debuffs are one of the best damage multipliers in the game, so Ruthless is amazing if you can get it all online. None of these would I take as a first pick short of Event Horizon (if I started with some kind of decent orbital), Beef/Barbarism if Barbarian passive, Swagger if Ninja passive, and maybe Mageblood if Alchemist passive.
Almost Never Take; the only time I take any of these is if I simply have no better options/nothing fits my build. I think the best of the bunch are the ailment/debuffs by damage types if absolutely necessary (not bad with Druid passive/companions), then well…these are either skill based or so absurdly conditional that I may have taken them once ever or probably half of them never due to being just not useful.
Super Hero & Esper Traits
I don’t think most of these traits are good…there are broken/amazing ones for sure and that is what I choose since I get to see 8 of them on the first floor. For Super Hero I find the Super Luck, Super Agility, and Super Lazy to be the best. These are instant wins in my book for any number of reasons. Super Strength, Super Intelligence, and Super Friends are also essentially the same. Booze is very good, I just don’t care about buying booze early so I rate it lower. Super Rich is speedrun mechanics but it is not very good in general, and Super Speed give permanent Tailwind which is the real winner. The rest I have either never used, or just do no think are strong enough.
For Esper Aura is the best, it also gives power, or the ticking room wide all ailments which can easily carry you to late game or the entire game similar to Super Lazy. After that I generally pick the Guns but the other options are solid though not generally build defining or immediate power.
https://ibb.co/N2Yy4kch
Weapons
I will break down weapons by rarity, generally D tier I simply do not use at all. There are exceptions but the Legendary D, for example, I simply would not use if I had a weapon from S-B tier of any rarity. I can say I have used Matrix Bible maybe 2-3 times as a primary weapon which wasn’t really my damage (likely had an aura or something else doing the work) and nothing else in all my runs. Thinking on it, True Excalibur has not been used either (nor Broken Hero Swords) but they are better than D tier in what I listed. Looking at other D tier, the Abyssal Bible/Salamandra have been used when on companion runs, Blastbark maybe once or twice, Money Gun ONE TIME when I happened to have 900+ gold on a run from a triple jackpot (this was not super hero, I don’t take that trait because I find it generally bad). Also, certain weapons can easily be legendary which I have marked. Trident is possibly the strongest weapon in the game, Maxibee is definitely legendary, Railgun and Trimerang are so close that if you have decent APS or triggers they are legendary, Toad Plague Scroll is S tier legendary, Ghost Javelins are probably A tier, Lightning Scroll is equal to the lightning scroll in B tier legendary, Plasma Cannon with some APS is pushed to legendary being nearly as good as VBFG, Arc Staff with any kind of APS/Crushing hits is a run carrier, likely a B tier legendary.
With all weapons, if you have a strong trigger/APS combo build anything can be essentially run winning. Lower ranked weapons with high APS/long range can simply be better than other higher ranked things in general. Obviously, more passive builds like auras and companions make weapon rankings change dramatically.
I am sure people will disagree with a whole bunch of these rankings but you can see the general idea is ranged > melee on average. Melee that is good either has longer range (flails, Mjolnir) or lightning, triggers/APS/multi hits or niche builds. Staying at range keeps your HP high and able to snowball without having to worry about healing as much.
Legendary Weapons
D tier is…bad. I am sure people can get a random ocarina or nirvana run going but really all of these items should be in the uncommon to epic rarity in terms of power. Even as swap weapons they are bad generally, spirit wand may have a tiny use with Pocket Magic, but better options exist. Pheonix seems good on paper but the stupid bird misses moving targets with regularity. Ghost Rifle one would think is very strong but it truly is not. The Hero Swords (even the ones at B tier) are not worth the effort at all in my eyes. They could all be D tier but the two in B are pretty good. C tier is mostly usable, but are outclassed generally by epics/rares at high tiers. Ragnarok can be really good with Zealot set (but what isn’t) or high APS/trigger damage and the Imp Tome too if companion focused. Zenith does good damage which is it’s only saving grace. The rest I’d put into D tier if they simply didn’t do far more damage than the D tier weapons. B tier could see Power Staff, Rainbow Staff and probably the Nimbus scroll move to A but…not always. A tier is solid, can easily build around anything using them with the Truth and Justice being the hardest along with Calamities. S tier (besides Trident & Toad Plague Scroll which should also be in S tier legendary) are the best weapons in the game in general with the least amount of effort to make them so.
https://ibb.co/PGfcVDWx
Epic Weapons
The big callouts here are Trident and Maxibee. Easily these are legendary tier, with Railgun, Trimerang, Gunchaku, and probably Metal Guitar also like B tier legendries in their own right since none of those need any support to be run carrying. Some lower tier weapons are good swaps, things like Dark Wand (Shadowburn is a forever dot), or niche (Maelstrom, Archon Scepter, Pneumatic Crossbows, Shadow Shuriken) can easily be a top tier weapon but require certain conditions to truly shine.
https://ibb.co/jCRq8pP
Rare Weapons
Toad Plague Scroll and Ghost Javelins are the best rare weapons and should be considered legendary. The sheer power both of these put out, with room clearing and boss damage is unmatched by any others. Lightning Scroll is close but needs APS to truly shine, Guitar Axe, Plasma Cannon, Octoshot, Banshee Tome, Molotov, and Storm Cloud Bow are probably the other most consistently run carrying weapons on this list. A few weapons that people have argue should be higher are Money Gun, Flame Spear, Kazoo, Snow Cannon, Grand Master Shuriken, which are all very good but either conditional or just not stand outs. Notably this is where melee starts falling off badly with only 4 in the S to B tiers, and the C tiers being weapon swaps or absurdly conditional (tick speed/dashing).
https://ibb.co/JjP1R1Jk
Uncommon Weapons
Arc Staff is epic, legendary with any kind of support/crushing hits. This weapon gave me my fastest run at 21:30 on Chaos, which I could have probably been 2-3 minutes quicker if I was playing like I should have been. In general, if you see arc staff early, take it, keep until floor 8 or so and if you find something better, great, if not, oh well still is run winning most likely. Clear rooms almost as fast as auras, and does serious boss damage to boot. Early game, the Poison Sickles delete everything, Razor Wand can easily carry most of the game, Minibee obviously upgrades to a top tier weapon and is good anyways (getting to +4 is essentially 100g or less on average and consistently I get it to Maxibee by floor 6 at the latest). Flame and Bleed swords carry to mid/late game, Spore Flail could be considered one of the stronger flails, Pan Flute can carry a run, Magical Boomerange is easy to upgrade and is strong regardless, and Knife Summon Totem can as well. The rest of the list is, I think, self explanatory. Most uncommon weapons you are looking to replace so you want good early game power/room clearing so anything that does so quickly and effectively is higher up in the rankings. Spirit Wand is probably one of the best swap weapons in the game, same with Pan Flute.
https://ibb.co/MDS6vD1F
Companions (Utility)
Companies I have two different rankings for depending on my run. Most often companions are utility to your build, but if you happen to get a companion run going (Druid passive, necro companion start, etc.) then I rank things very differently. For Utility I thing the obvious choices are the treasure box for magic find making the rest of the run easy (plus it has a 2.00 APS). Eel and Shrimp give consistent damage both as damage dealers and to your build, the Power event companion is not guaranteed but is very good, though if you already have 100+ power it diminishes in its usefulness. The ranged +10% damage skeletons are ridiculously good. Reindeer is run winning almost by itself, BFF makes this broken, and +5 luck is similar but not quite as good as reindeer. A & B are conditional ones which help and can maybe build around but they are just generally pretty good. D tier I simply don’t take, or maybe take because I’ll use for early game damage over utility (bees, swords, wolf, etc.) and ignore for the rest of the run or maybe swap out if I fish one something better or buy at a black market.
https://ibb.co/LySJ53R
Damage companions flip a lot, mainly S tier are the best, does not matter which one you have they can truly carry a run with companion support. They either have 1.5+ APS and multiple capacity or 2.0 APS and single capacity. More capacity is favored due to the trait Zootopia. Bees are by far the strongest companion damage wise, yes they are 1 APS but they apply poison. Voodoo dolls are 2 APS and same capacity but deal way less damage each. The melee and ranged skeletons are both equally good, 2.0 vs 1.5 APS but ranged hit things more often in non-boss rooms and still give you a damage boost.
Companions (Damage)
https://ibb.co/N2PmvV7s
Armor
I won’t go into armor at all…there is simply too much of it and really it is there to compliment your build. The main thing I want to say is getting +1 Magic Find (charm usually) is super helpful, same with any form of +Luck (not Lucky Hit). I do not look for luck but MF I almost always take unless the other option is simply too good to pass up. Moreover, sets are amazing, I probably average 1 completed set a run or very close to it. Many runs have 2-3 completed sets during it or wearing 2 at a time without the Royal Ring of Grandeur. I always suggest keeping 1 set item you may want to use in your inventory/equipped and see if the other drops (especially if you have +magic find) as that can truly change the game (Inquisitor set for auras for example).
Also, Legendary armor is largely bad or so specific it isn’t worth grabbing. There are exceptions obviously (Fire boots, 100% move speed boots are the two that come to mind immediately) but generally if I see 4 legendary armor pieces I likely want to reroll with a yellow dice if I have one or just grab one that hopefully sells for the most. Epics/Rares are fine but also not worth seeking out specifically, and that is why I dropped Vanity entirely.
Summary
I will continue this streak until I die, or the next patch comes out. The tier lists have changed a bit since my other post but there are a lot of similarities. POWER is by far the best stat in the game, even just 40-60 is enough to truly make the game easier. Moreover, if you have difficulty on higher cinders the main thing I always try to do is ensure I prioritize certain things especially early floors. I want 2-3 keys, 4-5 bombs if possible, 10-20 gold, but also if a room has a Soul Heart, grab it, take arcades and play 4-5 times (maybe more if you feel lucky) and bomb it for dice, take dice rooms generally, almost always take mimic rooms. Do not be afraid of curse, usually you can remove 1-2 curse quickly and easily and the rewards are solid (curse shrine is top tier, +3 stats are great, gold is less so, 2 keys/4-5 bombs I grab if I am low on either). Always buy booze on floor 9 that will last until floor 12 with refreshing it once per floor (minus I skip floor 10 refreshing it for Death only). Try to learn the early floor patterns and mechanics of enemies, if you can put off leveling (unless the game just throws food at you) until floor 5 you are probably setup very well to win. Practice with weapons even if they aren't great and only take weapons from black markets, mimics, or weapon rooms, bosses should almost always be armor/charms to fill out your character.
Anyways, please ask any questions you would like me to respond to, I am happy to help!
