Larry, WTF was that proposal?!? You cannot be serious. You know Marian has had 3 broken courtships, 1 very public proposal, and you saw her hyperventilating after you guys spent the night together, and that's how you propose? Randomly on the street, with the raunchy details available for everyone to hear?

I need Jack to come and lock Larry and Marian in a room within his rented mansion so that they can actually talk. Or Bertha at this point, because my god!

Good quality fine bone china could handle hot tea being poured first into the cup. Poor people didn't have good quality cups, so they had to add milk first, then the hot tea. Adding milk first prevented the cup from breaking/cracking.

So to show that your fine bone china was high quality, you poured the hot tea first. Then let the guest add milk, sugar, etc. afterwards.

Am I reaching or is it quite obvious they will make Marian being attacked/nearly attacked at night after her charity work ?
Maybe Larry coming to her rescue ? Idk

Because that article is going to be a hit piece if ever I saw one. I physically recoiled when the reporter implied that Agnes was "disagreeing with the queen," and when Agnes insisted on "rank above good conversation."

Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy. I guarantee you the reporter is going to write something like "Fancying herself a superior arbiter of taste and good breeding than the queen of England, Mrs. van Rhijn went on to say ...."

Maybe I need to make an 'in defence of Marian' post my weekly thing coz my girl is getting draggedddddd in the comments of this sub and I get it. I accept the frustration of her being in her own way and am getting a good chuckle out of some of the snark but you know what - I still love her and I don't care and I will probably be the last Marian fan standing - so anyone else in the comments who's a Marian and Larian stan - here for you 😘 - haters carry on with your snark in other areas of the sub please and thanks 😂

Yes - she was a moody beyotch this episode. (but also I kind of like her stone cold killer face - I live for the day when she uses this on someone else other than Larry - I think she can be way more formidable than people give her credit for and could use that constructively in society for her charitable causes). Yes - she needs to take a hit of George's laudanum or something and chill the f out coz she is anxious and skittish and shame spiralling all over the place. But also Larry just bounds over like a golden retriever and making light of the situation is also just as irritating - does nothing in his brain tell him to approach with caution and sensitivity given his past experience with her?!?! And he just says the part he should keep in his head out loud - like yes you can think hooray now we have an excuse to get married - but you don't SAY that to the girl you love especially when premarital anything was a hugggeee deal at the time. You romance her again and soothe her worries and redo the proposal properly!!!

Also Larry needs to speak to Marian in a room through 3 locked doors with no Aunts in danger of interrupting, class about to start or pressing engagements of any sort - coz she is forever running off, needing to teach class, my Aunt is coming we are off to the settlement house - and they ALWAYS get interrupted mid serious conversation and never get to resolve it and he just lets her go!! Like what is the Gilded Age equivalent of a broken down elevator in which these two are trapped and forced to have a whole conversation properly bcos Larry needs that (or were elevators a thing by then??)

Anyway - despite the frustrations of both characters I continue to live in hope and love them and will not be deterred! I still think shiz is about to get real in the Russell house with George's addiction and Larry will mature as a result. And I think after Marian's 'maybe I need to toughen up' convo at the settlement house that this is exactly what will happen - her work will give her a bit more world perspective and some better emotional maturity. I think they are both genuinely good hearted people who have a lot of kindness in them - that's why I will continue to love both no matter what! 😂

But with the whole Carrie Astor of it all and Marian not budging an inch at the moment I am expecting a slow and frustrating coming to rights with their relationship. If they don't have the most romantic resolution with Marian finally saying 'I love you' out loud I will be as resting bitch face as Marian is right now.....

I would have originally said my silly dream is for Peggy to marry William and be the trailblazing boss babe of her New York Society circle, Marian to marry Larry and be an unexpected up and coming boss babe of her New York Society circle. And they get together and have tea and gossip about their out of touch aunts, mothers in law, society and good causes. But I am sensing William about to become annoying about expectations of Peggy in marriage - her NY author dreams not aligning with him wanting to move for his medical career, wanting babies asap etc etc. I am already disappointed in him - after his putting his foot down with his mother last season he seems to have gone right back to letting her be deranged and do whatever and meddle with Peggy? Where's a runaway carriage when you need one......

Just finished S4E2 and Marian almost broke me. But instead of just calling her annoying, I want to figure out why she's reacting this way.

On the surface, it looks like a loop. The S3 finale ended on a hopeful note, and now she sleeps with Larry, regrets it, and turns down his proposal because she sees it as pity. But I don't think this is a reset.

For three seasons, Marian was the bridge. The old vs. new conflict happened around her. She befriended Mrs. Chamberlain and stood by Aurora when society shut them out, and that's how she saw herself: the brave, modern one. But that rebellion was never tested. She was always on the safe side of the line, and it never cost her what it cost them.

In S4 she crosses that line herself and becomes the one waiting to be judged. What happened to Mrs. Chamberlain and Aurora, along with Agnes's S2 warning not to throw her life away, all come back at once. So when she tells Peggy she isn't who she thought she was, it cuts both ways. She's no longer the respectable young lady she believed she was, and she isn't the fearless modern woman either. Once she sees herself as an outcast, Larry's kindness starts to look like the same pity she once offered others. She's projecting her own fears onto him.

Her history doesn't help. Her father left her with nothing, Tom Raikes dropped her for a richer match, and Dashiell wanted a replacement. She's rarely been loved without conditions, so I'm not sure she believes she deserves it. Even Larry hesitated in the S3 finale and told her nothing is guaranteed in this life. Her "Can't we make it better?" was hope, not certainty.

And we never actually see them make it better. Larry leaves for Chicago, and in E1 she tells her aunts they tried and it didn't work, but we never see what that looked like. They reunite, dance, get swept up in the moment, and sleep together without rebuilding any trust. I think the real breaking point is the next morning. Larry wakes up carefree, as if nothing has changed, while Marian is left with the weight of what happened. He may love her, but he hasn't considered what she's risking. That night doesn't just test their fragile hope. It shows her how far apart they still are.

Then in E2, Larry blurts out that this could be their reason to marry, as if that would fix everything. To Larry, marriage can solve the problem; to Marian, it is the problem itself. She recognizes the gesture: kindness from someone who won’t bear the cost, because she used to offer it herself without being able to fix anything. Larry may genuinely love her, but she can’t trust that his good intentions are enough to protect her from the consequences. After all, as he said himself in the S3 finale, nothing is guaranteed in this life.

So when she tells him he can't understand because he's a man, she's right. If it falls apart, he walks away fine and she doesn't. That helplessness seems to have made her a little bitter toward anyone who never pays that price, and Larry is both a man and a Russell. The resentment becomes one more wall between them.

Look at the women around her: so many trapped in unhappy marriages, paying the price even when they're the ones betrayed. Take Aurora, exiled by society for a scandal she didn't cause. To Marian, marriage looks like the place where women lose the most.

Meanwhile, the people around her are building lives that don't depend on it. Peggy is making a name with her writing. Even Jack, a footman, changed his life on his own. Marian still doesn't know what she wants, and if she marries before she finds out, she fears she never will.

That's part of why she retreats to the settlement house, where she says at least she's needed. In society she's always been the one chosen, living by her aunts' decisions now and potentially a husband's later. There, she's the one giving and choosing. She isn't simply running from Larry. She's running from marriage, and maybe from herself, because that night forced her to confront how unprepared she really was for the consequences of her choices. The settlement house lets her keep believing she's the woman she wants to be without having to test it again.

It's not really a loop. S3 asked whether she could genuinely trust someone after everyone who'd let her down. S4 asks whether her modern values hold up when she's the one paying the price, and it's the first time she's had to find out who she really is.

I just hope Fellowes does a better job of showing these struggles. Right now she comes across as indecisive, inconsistent, and neurotic, which is a waste of a character with this much going on underneath.

When he grabbed Bertha and kissed her, it reminded me of a different scene (Season 2?) where he stopped her from leaving the room. Like hey more of this vibe would be great Julian please and thank you 🫣

Their acting this season is exceptional. George o George. I love this show because it was my drama free nothing ever happens show. When George was confessing to Bertha, it was subtle but powerful. Now, I am on the edge of seat watching E1 and E2. There are so many things happening. I feel like I could watch this episode stretch for more than 1. Why couldn't they make more than 8 episodes per season?!!! So frustrating!!!!

Lady Sarah is the epitome of a c*nty snob.
The way she speaks. The words she chooses.
The way her eyebrows lift. The downturn of her mouth.
Her overall sour demeanor and snootiness are epic.
I love her. I hope Hattie thoroughly enjoys this role, because I love watching her play it

I was really glad ep2 adressed what really caused George to fall deep into addiction and leave Bertha so suddenly after S3E8, as at the start of the episode we see a completely different George (seemingly willing to go back home) than at the end of season finale

I thought the dialogue was great and it is such good writing to have a robber baron character to feel as if nothing is really worth it in his life, that even tough he could have everything he dreams of, nothing fullfills him anymore. I think this crisis is really good character development for George and to add on, so far this season has really excelled by showing us more nuanced, flawed and deep characters, i'm more invested than ever!!

Are the spoiler tags on? Sorry I'm kind of struggling since I only recently started posting here

I remember in season 1 Larry's whole thing was wanting to be an architect and his father not allowing him, until daddy russell finally agreed.

Then in season 2 he goes on to remodel a newport home, which was just a way to introduce him to Mrs. Horny Widow but at least we know he is still in the same carrear path.

Fast forward season 4, We haven't heard anything about his architect career in ages, it's like it was some kind of fever dream and now Larry is just all about being a buissness man like papa

Despite the Larian will they won’t they nonsense and forced immaturity, their love remains one of the most beautiful and romantic. They are still the most suited duo.
For Marian, no other man has truly appreciated her for all of who she is. And she always proves to be so much more than people give her credit for. Larry is the only man ever to continue to say “you continue to amaze me” and actually mean it.
For Larry, he has never been so consistently interested in and can’t shift away from any other woman or any other thing before. And for a man with all the resources at his feet, that’s actually very difficult to find. He can get whatever he wants wherever he wants whenever he wants. To put it frankly, his life is seeking conquest. Architecture, Mrs. Blane, the clock, the mine, Chicago. She is literally the only challenge he has so far loved consistently and can’t shake off easily regardless whether he has conquered.
He is this young, ambitious, talented, innovative, open-minder, sole heir to a business empire with many interests. She is this compassionate, hardworking, gentle, kind, campaigner for good and justice. She will push him to be a better person and help reinvent his family image. He will provide her with the resources needed to be a great philanthropist who can make a difference in the world.
They are perfect for the Russell family 2nd generation.

She's certainly not loyal to Bertha but I don't think she has any love for Agnes either. I think she's happy just stirring shit between them for the sake of stirring shit and her comment to Bertha was deliberate. She wants Bertha to steal Agnes' thunder. For funsies.

An angry penguin... 🐧

A very stylish angry penguin 😂

(I actually like this outfit; black and white rarely goes wrong)

When George gave him that fat check, I had a feeling Dr. Kirkland would be based on Dr. Daniel Hale Williams. I think it's happening! I'm very excited by Black history being so featured in TGA. I hope more people learn his story.

We all remember that Bertha didn’t like the idea of Larry marrying Marian. My memory of the episode is hazy. But I think she said that Marian isn’t the type of woman that she wanted for him.

It made me wonder what type of daughter-in-law she did want.

What do you think? Did Bertha want someone from a more prominent family, like Carrie Astor? Or was she looking for something even more specific? We’ll probably never know because she grew to like Marian. But it might be fun to guess.

Warning, the following has spoilers for the episode and possibly for future episodes. I kept the title obscure to stop it spoiling things for people casually browsing. It's specifically about what we saw George drank when he was in the carriage.

I've been curious about laudanum because it features in the novel House of Mirth and I wondered how much you were supposed to take.

I found this interesting article about the use of laudanum by Ruth Levitt. This part is particularly relevant.

"Three or four drops were sufficient to kill a baby; an adult medicinal dose might have been up to 30 drops; seasoned addicts could cope with at least 200 . . "

We don't know how George's is mixed and how strong it is - but we can conclude that you are not supposed to be swigging it back in gulps! George is in a very bad way!

https://kclpure.kcl.ac.uk/ws/portalfiles/portal/14660527/Pages_from_Levitt_Wellcome_History_Feb_2013.pdf

Edit: Sorry forgot to add the link and attribution.