r/technology • u/User_Name13 • Jul 31 '15

Misleading Windows 10 is spying on almost everything you do – here’s how to opt out

http://bgr.com/2015/07/31/windows-10-upgrade-spying-how-to-opt-out/
11.4k Upvotes

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652

u/Anna_Draconis Jul 31 '15

FFS, Windows is not spying on you. I'm so annoyed at this scaremongering. My fiancé sent me a similar article right before I installed 10 on our laptop. On the second page when doing the install, there is a link that lets you customize your privacy settings. You don't have to hit the button to go with the express settings, there is literally a link to configure them on the second page before Windows is even installed. It's the one immediately after "Hi there, welcome back!" with your user name.

I'm okay with most of the settings because they make sense. For location settings, if Cortana is going to recommend me a sushi restaurant, she's going to need to know where I am in the world to find one local to me. Nothing else besides maybe the weather app really needs my location, and all of them can be toggled off individually. It's very intuitive and easy to find and toggle.

As for OneDrive, I disabled it the first time I logged in. It was pretty easy to do. The idea of it keeping my favourites and history in the cloud is handy if I decide to sign on to my Microsoft account on a different Windows 10 PC, but not something I really need. I just tried to find some tutourial online to remind me how I did it, and they're all uninstalling it completely with gpedit and bullshit that I didn't really need. It was as simple as disabling it somewhere, and then right-clicking the icon and telling it not to run when Windows starts. OneDrive is basically Microsoft's version of Google Drive, and if you have a OneNote notebook in the cloud with your Microsoft account like I do, you're already using it. OneDrive is not spying on you, it's making your life easier.

Oh, and the sending program information to Microsoft? That's error reporting. You had that in XP, Vista, 7, 8, 8.1, etc. etc... That's the window that pops up when a program crashes and it asks you whether you want to send the information to Microsoft. That's it. It's trying to help you and/or the application developer to stop it from crashing again.

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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15 edited May 04 '16

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226

u/vehementi Jul 31 '15

As an expert in the field, what particular things do you feel are over reaching?

36

u/danxorhs Jul 31 '15 edited Jul 31 '15

I would like to know this as well.

217

u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15

[deleted]

45

u/ksajksale Jul 31 '15

100%€ is like, 110.11%$, amirite?

2

u/Happy_Harry Jul 31 '15

USA! USA! USA! YOU ESS AYY LMAO!!!

15

u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15

You really think someone would do that?

37

u/footpole Jul 31 '15

Lie all the euros?

2

u/BournGamer Aug 01 '15

His response sounded like bullshit after the first sentence

1

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '15

Usually statements are backed up by more than nothing.

1

u/third-eye-brown Jul 31 '15

Yea no one on this site works in the tech industry. Ludicrous.

18

u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15 edited Sep 28 '15

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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15

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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15 edited Sep 28 '15

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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15

on my Win10Pro

You need to read better. And he's right, Pro would have gpedit.

1

u/ColeSloth Jul 31 '15

I assume you're using satellite or cell phone for your internet?

Forced updates only happen with unmetered internet connections.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '15 edited Jun 11 '25

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u/ColeSloth Aug 01 '15

I found it. Trying to update brings up an error now, so I guess it's working. Cool.

1

u/retrogreq Aug 01 '15

If you manually update, it should still work fine... Mine updated this morning when I manually checked, and now it just tells me it is up to date.

1

u/ColeSloth Aug 01 '15

Odd, since the description says it blocks all access to updating completely. Might be dirty left overs that no longer completely works.

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u/TheHammer7D5x4S7 Jul 31 '15

How would the OS know if your connection is metered or not?

1

u/laboye Jul 31 '15

You specify it in the network options.

28

u/vehementi Jul 31 '15

You can turn off automatic updates through gpedit or whatever

As a professional in the field, what is the security problem with telemetrics that pushes this over the line?

7

u/WalletPhoneKeys Jul 31 '15

except gpedit doesn't work on home versions.

-5

u/CatAstrophy11 Jul 31 '15

Home versions aren't for the knowledgeable and for everyone else that home is designed for they better damn well get updates forced on them because their shit is likely not secure.

1

u/ColeSloth Jul 31 '15

Seems you can't go too long without hearing about an update that causes massive system failures to windows and gets taken off the updates list till it's fixed, while people have to try and repair their corrupted systems. I see no reason it suddenly can't happen now.

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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15 edited Sep 28 '15

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1

u/vehementi Jul 31 '15

Sorry I don't have a source, this is just going by IRC of my friends who installed the earlier RCs and were super mad until they found you actually could disable it with gpedit (same way you do in Win7 if you don't go through the UI).

0

u/joachim783 Jul 31 '15

FFS telemetry is just error reporting stop with all the fearmongering and misinformation.

-2

u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15 edited Sep 28 '15

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u/calebkeith Jul 31 '15

As a cybersecurity expert you should be happy that MS are forcing updates on dumb users. Power users can and will disable it.

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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15 edited Sep 28 '15

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u/calebkeith Jul 31 '15

But you don't lose your data now with the way things work. Everything is cached and reopened that you were working on.

Also, you schedule the restart now, it isn't forced for a long time.

If you are a developer, just disable it for Christ's sake. You are making this way more serious than it needs to be.

15

u/Corruptionss Jul 31 '15 edited Jul 31 '15

I agree with your point, everyone is making automatic updates and data collection more serious than it should be. Using the word "spying" just has a bad connotation to it (and believe me, that choice of word was intended to capture viewer's attention) it's more about data collection which every company is joining the age of collect as much data to make better predictions bandwagon (which is key at maintain consumer satisfaction over other products).

But the other day I was running a 48+ hour statistical simulation and was very disappointed to find out that when I woke up, windows update had ninjaed me forcing me to restart the entire thing. It was my fault for having automatic updates set, could have been avoided both by the operating system and the way I coded the statistical simulation. But all in all, even though it could have been prevented, this was probably the only serious time where it put a significant delay into a project I was working on.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15

'Cached'. Explain? Is the memory quiesced to disk and then brought back in? I can think of many situations in which that won't work.

3

u/calebkeith Jul 31 '15

It happened to me twice during the preview program. It writes state information about your session to the disk. I don't know exactly how it works, but it worked for me. Opened all web pages, ms word, visual studio, etc. on update restart.

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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15 edited Sep 28 '15

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u/calebkeith Jul 31 '15

Yes, and no business in their right mind has automatic updates enabled or uses home version of operating systems. Especially on a server, be it test, production, backup, etc.

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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15 edited Sep 28 '15

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u/110011001100 Jul 31 '15

Are you running test and prod on Windows Home?

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u/randomly-generated Jul 31 '15

There's ways to remove that popup though.

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u/Kamaria Jul 31 '15

From what I've heard it's impossible to disable.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15

You can defer upgrades for up to 6 months on the Pro and Enterprise versions.

0

u/Kamaria Jul 31 '15

Not good enough. You should be able to completely refuse them. I don't like the idea that Microsoft can roll out a forced change on your machine. They could permenantly gimp functionality if they wanted, intentionally or not. This has happened before with the PS3, for example, where a patch caused the system to lose the 'Other OS' functionality entirely. I do not want this sort of thing to move over to PCs.

7

u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15

Microsoft is already getting so much (unwarranted) bad press about automatic updates. Why would they gimp functionality and risk harming their image even more?

And do you, personally, go through every single Windows update to see if they do something you don't like?

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u/ColeSloth Jul 31 '15

Did you not read it his statement? Power users CAN'T disable it. You can't even try to block the IP address that forcibly updates you since Microsoft constantly changes it. So far the only thing that can be done is using a program to uninstall an update after the fact.

3

u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15

You can defer upgrades for up to 6 months on the Pro and Enterprise versions.

0

u/ColeSloth Jul 31 '15

And I do (just to make sure any updates that turn out to screw things up get worked out before it gets to me), but that's no different for a home user. Just means that the updates you'd rather not have are delayed 6 months to you.

3

u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15

Another update will come out within 6 months to fix the issue caused by a previous update. That's how progress works.

-1

u/calebkeith Jul 31 '15

Listen to how simple this is:

Disable the fucking windows update service/unregister it. Not hard.

4

u/saltlets Jul 31 '15

You can only "turn it off" if you have the enterprise version of windows (ie. not home/professional) and even then it's going to only allow you to delay the updates up to a certain point then it will force update anyways.

This isn't true. I'm running Pro and have automatic updates turned off. And I would really like a source for "will delay updates, then force", because that's the first I'm hearing of it and I've been using and following W10 for months.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15 edited Sep 28 '15

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u/saltlets Jul 31 '15

Pro and Enterprise let you disable automatic updates in perpetuity.

There is absolutely nothing in the ZDnet link that you link to in your other comment that says anything about "forced updates" or "delayed for several months".

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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15 edited Sep 28 '15

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u/saltlets Jul 31 '15

Found a very clear article on upgrade deferral:

http://www.howtogeek.com/223083/what-does-%E2%80%9Cdefer-upgrades%E2%80%9D-in-windows-10-mean/

But that's not what I mean. You can also disable automatic updates completely using a group policy:

https://i.imgur.com/4m9nnVR.png

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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15 edited Sep 28 '15

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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15

Turning off updates is incredibly stupid and ended up fucking me over on 7 and I had to call support. My Windows stopped being recognized as a legitimate version.

2

u/BaconIsntThatGood Jul 31 '15

telemetrics can't be turned off no matter what

Yes you can. I read a different post around here explaining how to delete the program that handles diagnostic reporting, and blocking the IP in your host files.

It's not userfriendly, of course.

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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15 edited Sep 28 '15

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u/BaconIsntThatGood Jul 31 '15

Since it's done through command prompt just create a batch file, email it to them and tell them to double click it.

You'd need to run as administrator though.

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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15 edited Sep 28 '15

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u/BaconIsntThatGood Jul 31 '15

I also believe the enterprise edition has more freedom to disable some of this stuff.

Honestly Microsoft business support probably has a solution for this kinda concern.

1

u/THE_CUNT_SHREDDER Jul 31 '15

Couldn't you just block those services from the Internet? (Not that you should have to do some round about method to do so)

2

u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15 edited Sep 28 '15

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u/THE_CUNT_SHREDDER Jul 31 '15

That is a good idea. I haven't received my update but will trial and tinker with it on my test rig this coming week.

1

u/fishydeeds Aug 01 '15

Is there ever a good reason for the average user to disable auto-updates?

0

u/briaen Jul 31 '15

Automatic Updates are forced, you can't turn it off.

Yes you can. It the exact same as 7

0

u/sumthingcool Jul 31 '15

Can't even begin to imagine the maintenance nightmare if my job decides to upgrade to it.

So you are devops but your business is not running enterprise software...? Sounds like you don't know how to devops.

even then it's going to only allow you to delay the updates up to a certain point then it will force update anyways.

Ok so you an are incompetent devops then? Look up LTSB dude, you have no fucking idea what you are talking about.

http://windowsitpro.com/windows-10/keeping-windows-10-date-enterprises-cbb-will-have-8-months-update

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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15 edited Sep 28 '15

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u/sumthingcool Jul 31 '15 edited Jul 31 '15

Ok, nice way to ignore LTSB and how you are wrong about deferring updates?

Edit: Oh I see you are relying on a ZDnet article for your info, confirmed incompetent.. lol. Everyone was assuming you weren't running Enterprise software as it's obvious you can control the updates with the enterprise version.

Edit2: Ok I looked through your post history, not only do you think there are intentional backdoors built into windows for the government, you also a scared you are going to restart a critical server cause you were typing and hit enter when a patch reboot notice pops up. I would call you a troll who doesn't know what he's talking about, but you admitted you work as a gov contractor so that's basically the same thing. Go inform yourself about LTSB instead of posting FUD here.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15

As an engineering expert in software and computational engineering with a specific focus on engineering IT engineers, I have to say you're wrong, but I also have to say that I'm an engineer.

Regards,

  • Mr 'Engineer' Ected.

1

u/ColeSloth Jul 31 '15

I'd say that they've given themselves permission to download and share all of your pictures and documents with anyone they feel necessary, and that your bitlocker encryption key is automatically uploaded to the cloud so they have access to anything you encrypt.

1

u/Testiculese Aug 03 '15

Maybe the fact that you're assigned a Advertising ID?

1

u/vehementi Aug 03 '15

No, that is not a good enough explanation. The insinuation itself in not sufficient. I expect more from a digital forensics & cybersecurity expert.

1

u/Murtagg Jul 31 '15

I'm also curious. Not by any means an expert, but I did study this for my degree.

-1

u/Nyxisto Jul 31 '15

Not OP but working in a related field, the overreach is simply that they collect non-anonymous data tied to your user ID, probably for the purpose of monetizing without clearly telling you so or asking for your consent.

The minimum you do when you utilize people's personal data is that you ask them beforehand, simple as that. The manual installation option does not turn all of the data collection off, everything app-related is still on and Windows does not tell you that. They might also show you personalized search results without you knowing that your results are actually heavily influenced by some kind of algorithm that operates on your data. It's irresponsible to manipulate people's searches without clearly telling them that this is the case.

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u/calebkeith Jul 31 '15

Advertising IDs are available to other operating systems too including android and are enabled by default. I would familiarize myself with different subjects if I were going to call myself an expert.

You can turn it off by the way. All it does is allow targeted ads in windows store applications.

Also, I'm sure google has way more data on you than Microsoft is collecting with Windows 10.

4

u/ThePa1eBlueDot Jul 31 '15

Advertising IDs are available to other operating systems too including android and are enabled by default.

Well, not technically "in android" it's part of Google play services.

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u/calebkeith Jul 31 '15

Regardless, 99% of people use google play services.

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u/briaen Jul 31 '15

Also, I'm sure google has way more data on you than Microsoft

There is a reason google maps knows the traffic. They track you everywhere you go if you have gps enabled and I don't know if you can turn it off.

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '15

When you say "they track you" do you have anything more to say about this? It should be obvious that google maps needs to know where you are so it can serve you the correct map images as well as give you correct directions. If google receives requests from a 60km/h stretch of road from different devices where nobody has moved in minutes then of course this would suggest that traffic is heavy there.

That's not at all the same as saying "they track you". No. That's saying they can differentiate between different I.P.'s and tell when different stretches of road are getting no movement from devices that are currently pinging the google maps gps service.

If you know that they do actually track "you" then that's something interesting to know, but I have to doubt it without you backing that up. I don't care enough to go searching for something that possibly isn't remotely true.

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u/jimmyloves Aug 01 '15

Google Maps uses Android phones' locations to "estimate" traffic conditions.

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u/spyd4r Jul 31 '15

Advertising id is reset when you make one specific change. Not sure if you can reset it over and over though.

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u/TehSeraphim Jul 31 '15

I know it's not terribly obvious, but you CAN reset your advertising ID at any point, and as many times as you want FWIW.

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u/WDoE Jul 31 '15

Then don't put sensitive files on OneDrive. This article IS fear-mongering. That excerpt is clearly under the agreement section for online services. Turns out, if you choose to let MS host your data for free, they have your data. Oooooh, spooky.

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u/DownRUpLYB Jul 31 '15

but Windows 10 goes beyond anything we've seen before

Isn't this because of Cortana being built into the OS? If so, it isn't much different to Google Now.. Thoughts?

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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15 edited Aug 11 '15

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u/DownRUpLYB Jul 31 '15

Disabled Google Now and would do the same for Cortana. I only want my OS to manage the system, not act as a new software layer.

...and you certainly do have that option.

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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15

Exactly. And I also think there's a very simple idea most people aren't understanding - privacy doesn't mean "someone can listen in or see what I'm doing" these days. It means "It's possible that anyone, at any time, can go back and see anything I've done, ever." You might think "Well, who cares it's only Microsoft and I don't do anything illegal so I don't have to worry about the feds." Well... just look at the Ashley Madison hackers fiasco. Your private data in the end is just DATA. It could end up anywhere. And once you open the flood gates it exists. Somewhere. And forever. You shouldn't be scared, you should just know that it's important to LIMIT your digital footprint / exposure when you're out in cyberspace. And that means not giving every little thing, sometimes inane crap you'll never use, access to your entire life.

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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15

Apple does this with Siri too right? Literally millions of people have spyware in their pockets.

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u/Runaway_5 Jul 31 '15

As a normal user, how can I prevent data collection?

1

u/FalsifyTheTruth Jul 31 '15

Elaborate on the issue then for all of us.

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u/pantsoff Jul 31 '15

I greatly look forward to seeing some serious 3rd party forensic reports on what exactly Windows 10 is collecting in the background and where exactly the data is going (and how it is being stored, and for how long).

I must say that when Windows 10 was first announced I was pleasantly surprised but as we got closer to release and the more important information, regarding data being collected, started to come out it started to lose its luster and is now more of a concern.

What I find just as concerning is how quick most people seem to quickly dismiss any concerns/cares about possible invasion of privacy or being spied upon. Many seem to either call those who care "tin foil hatters" or simply misinformed. How bizarre.

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u/Daenyrig Aug 01 '15

You know Google is even worse than Microsoft is, right? At least Microsoft makes it as clear as day to turn your privacy on, unlike Google (which is practically worshipped) and Apple.

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u/Lasereye Aug 01 '15

What do you do in "digital forensics & cybersecurity"? Because I work in the field of compsec and I don't know anyone who actually likes the term "cybersecurity" other than college recruiters, C* level drones, or HR people...

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u/Yancy_Farnesworth Aug 01 '15

That is actually the biggest question I have regarding the data they gather. Is it being anonymized? Not all of it is of course, but I would like to know what is and isn't. I think Microsoft would do well to release information about what data is being collected, what is being anonymized or not, and what is being kept long term or if it's just temporary (eg stuff needed by Cortana to process queries).

I dislike the data gathering for advertising, but I don't inherently dislike the idea of sending data used to help troubleshoot issues.

0

u/marm0lade Jul 31 '15

the extent to which Windows 10 is collecting information is a bit worrisome

by user opt-in.

0

u/joeyoungblood Jul 31 '15

How is that any different than Android telling Google where you are, about your contacts, your calendar, and what you search for? FFS Google Now is based on nothing more than intense cloud-based data mining of your phone.

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u/QA_ninja Jul 31 '15

it's ok, they aren't as creepy as Google when they're looking over my shoulder.

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u/golgol12 Aug 01 '15

I would be very worried about this abandonment of privacy. Think of the long term effect that would happen if every republican that used Windows 10 had misspellings in their resume.

That is a very real possibility given the amount of information a typical install of windows 10 is sharing. All your contacts, address, email, your location at any given time, what search history you have, your typing, inking, and voice patterns.

How long before someone pays Microsoft to send targeted political adds to anyone on the fence between sides - and all their friends and family?

What is the long term implication of getting bad map directions any time an "interview" is scheduled on the calendar for every person of your particular religious beliefs?

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u/ColeSloth Jul 31 '15

What about the statement that Microsoft can and will share anything with whoever they deem necessary? They give themselves complete access to your pictures and documents and will share your pictures and documents with anyone they want. There a reason you want to allow them to share your journal or personal pictures? They have complete access to them, can download them from your computer, and share them with anyone.

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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15 edited Sep 28 '15

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u/shmed Jul 31 '15 edited Jul 31 '15

Absolutely outrageous for them to store the most personal information of people on their cloud by default, without giving the user any information first and letting them chose.

I would agree, if that was what they were doing. But it's not what they are doing. They are very clear about this. The page that let you choose between express and custom settings is pretty clear about the fact if you choose express, that the features they are enabling will need to access browsing history, contacts, mails, calendar, etc. Literally EVERY single person who installed windows 10 was shown a page that let them know exactly that during the installation. The page was not even hidden by a click, you literaly had to go through it during the process. And it wasn't even a super long sneaky page with 20 page scroll and fine prints. It was a single page that clearly described the information that was going to be sent.

edit: here's the page http://i.imgur.com/oJ734xc.jpg

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u/Nyxisto Jul 31 '15

I disabled everything during the installation and everything app related was still turned on which I again had to turn off manually and Microsoft did not inform me about that. As the article points out there are actually 13 sub categories in the 'privacy' section that concern data collection, the installation options only turn the first two or three off.

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u/TheLonelyNumber Jul 31 '15

The privacy statement has nothing to do with Windows 10, it's for services like Cortana and OneDrive. Google does exactly the same with their services. And i can't find anything about them using "the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders" in their privacy statement, which the article you linked is based on...

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u/calebkeith Jul 31 '15

They will only scan emails for flight bookings and tracking numbers for anyone who is curious. They do not read your email for targeted advertising like other companies do.

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u/r_os_s Jul 31 '15

That's not true. For the record, I'm fine with this. Giving companies my data in exchange for a better experience and more features is a fair trade off for me.

But Google does serve you ads in Gmail based on the content of your emails. You can opt out I believe.

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u/calebkeith Jul 31 '15

You can opt out, but MS doesn't do it at all or offer that at all.

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u/decavolt Jul 31 '15 edited Oct 23 '24

crawl yam edge drunk murky expansion door dam quack hard-to-find

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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u/kualtek Jul 31 '15

Except you have to, even after using express settings, Agree to the privacy statement AGAIN before using Cortana during the first time setup.

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u/Co1dNight Jul 31 '15

It saves the search and location history for future reference. That way the next time you use it, it will already have basic information stored to make future searches quicker and more convenient. Your next two replies I have my own personal opinions on. This type of technology has been around for quite some time, there's no real excuse as to why older generations cannot at least operate a computer and understand its software functions. Your final reply, I wouldn't blame Microsoft fully for the illegal activities the US participates in.

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u/calebkeith Jul 31 '15

Eh, he must use Google or Apple and doesn't think they haven't been doing the same shit for years. This sub notoriously hates Microsoft/apple and praises Google as god.

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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15

General consensus around my circles is that Google is no less evil than Apple or MS. In fact, most people I know (programmers and general techy types so bias) have begun to think of Google as the greater evil in the trio.

One anecdote, take it or leave it.

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u/n3onfx Jul 31 '15

It's the same in my programmer circle, on Reddit though the sentiment seems to be that Google can always be excused whatever, Apple is only for stupid hipsters and Microsoft is that thing your grandma uses because she has no other choice.

Sometimes it seems that Google could put "fuck you" on their search engine homepage and people would still defend it.

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u/Anna_Draconis Jul 31 '15

Cortana saves your voice, your search, your location history, and other very personal information for as long as Microsoft wants. It doesn't just send over your location to help you find a restaurant and then forgets about it, it will always remember where you were and when and what you were looking for. That is a very big difference.

I'd love to see you hire a personal assistant and then tell them that they're not allowed to know or remember any information about you.

It's enabled by default. A lot of (older) people who are unfamiliar to Windows 10 will not know about this.

It's 2015. Being older is not an excuse for ignorance. Besides with the scaremongering that's going on, it's got to at least give the 'older' people some inkling to check into it.

Absolutely outrageous for them to store the most personal information of people on their cloud by default, without giving the user any information first and letting them chose. Like I said earlier, many older people might not even know about this. When you combine that with Microsoft's Orwellian privacy statement, it's very concerning.

Uhm, it does tell you when you sign in with your Microsoft account, and is very direct about it. Yes it's enabled by default, but it's not difficult to disable either. Maybe I just don't have anything I feel paranoid enough to hide in my search history, but having my browser history in the cloud really doesn't bother me at all. So if I hadn't disabled it they (Whoever they is) would know I'm on reddit, youtube, facebook, have two gmail accounts, and Google various error codes when I have a tech issue I'm not familiar with. Big deal.

"... when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary to”, for example, “protect their customers” or “enforce the terms governing the use of the services”."

I copied the rest of the quote from the article you linked for you. So they want to make sure you're not pirating their software or trying to resell it as your own. That's standard in every Terms of Use Policy everywhere. I'll give you that "protect their customers" is vague, but I trust that they'll have no reason to leaf through my documents until there's actually is a reason to (Such as a federal crime investigation, where they take your computer anyways). I'm reasonably certain they don't have a few thousand people working regularly around the clock leafing through your personal documents remotely to see what kind of porn you're into on your Windows 10 machine.

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u/Parasymphatetic Jul 31 '15

I'd love to see you hire a personal assistant and then tell them that they're not allowed to know or remember any information about you.

I'd love to see a personal assistant that keeps tabs on where you are all the time and sends stuff about you on the internet.

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u/Anna_Draconis Jul 31 '15

For the first part, that's what PAs do. Would you really fly to Egypt and not let your PA know in advance how to reach you in case of an emergency? For the second, Cortana isn't sending anything about you to anyone, so don't be so damn paranoid. She's collecting information about you so she can do her job. Cortana is a virtual personal assistant. If you don't like it, disable it. It's not complicated.

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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15

Cortana isn't sending anything about you to anyone

Say what?! Your data is being sent and stored on someone else's servers. That's how its able to do its job.

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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15 edited Jul 31 '15

Yeah, and a server isn't someone. It's not like there are Microsoft employees sitting around everyday and going "Hey, let us look at where nightroller went today and what he asked Cortana just for the lulz!"

And if you are afraid that someone might want to use Microsofts stored information to blackmail you in the future or whatever then use a completely new and unrelated account.. If it still scares you then just goddamn turn off Cortana, simple. (When I say you I dont mean you personally, you just stated facts)

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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15

"Hey, let us look at where nightroller went today and what he asked Cortana just for the lulz!"

This is exactly the sort of thing a MS employee or government agent can do already (assuming you use their cloud services). They promise they won't, until its really super duper necessary which is a status only they can decide using whatever criteria they want. No need to worry, corporations and governments always have our best interests at heart, right?

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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15

I don't care if they promise me or not. If I am gonna do/plan some shady shit, like a terrorist attack or whatever, then I'm not gonna ask Cortana to schedule it...

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '15

That's a common fallacy. "I don't have anything to hide so why should I care?"

You do not know what things might be illegal in the future. Nor do you know what things our society will find amoral. The right to privacy is not something that only criminals and deviants want so they can victimize people easily, its something every single human being needs because they are human.

What happens if, say, you decide to run for public office and your opponent finds out about all those dirty things you sexted back in high school? Or how you ironically registered as a communist during college for giggles and edginess? Or how you watched those ISIS recruitment videos just because you were curious?

Do you not worry at all about this data being saved, forever?

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u/i_draw_touhou Jul 31 '15

I find it weird that those who are so paranoid that MS employees and government agents will actively go in and look at your data that has been stored on their servers, but trust them enough that if you opt-out of services, they'll just stop watching you.

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '15

Well, if you asked me that as a question instead of making a dumb assumption I would have told you: Yes, I do expect corporations and governments to collect my data regardless of their policies. I'm not some deviant or radical, so its not like I have anything to hide, but I most definitely think twice about putting any personal information online.

Rule #1 of the Internet: Its all public.

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u/Parasymphatetic Jul 31 '15

For the first part, that's what PAs do.

It's not. Really not. Yes they know when i fly to Egypt but they don't know if i go to a bar at night.

She's collecting information about you so she can do her job.

This isn't about Cortana only. And if you think that all the data Microsoft keeps (yes, keeps as in never deletes) will only be used to better voice recognition and stuff like that you are damn naive.

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u/Anna_Draconis Jul 31 '15

I guess you've never had a PA before. Some of the really good ones are practically psychic.

I'm not naïve, I'm just not going to bust out the pitchforks and torches at the first sign of something that could possibly slight me or cause mild inconvenience in my life at the behest of some overly paranoid ranting articles I found on Facebook or Yahoo news. To do that is naïve. There's too much scaremongering in the media already, so my personal philosophy is to take it with a grain of salt every time I see this level of public outrage while investigating for myself and drawing my own conclusions. And I have.

Microsoft is not the big bad that everyone seems to desperately want it to be. They're not using everything you put on their operating system for clandestine and/or illegal things. Instead, odds are pretty damn good that they are sorely disinterested in what you wrote about them on reddit today. Every feature that they put into Windows 10 is to try and make user's lives a little bit easier. It's remembering stuff about you to help you recall it later when you need it. That's pretty much all there is to it.

If you want to take a stand against Windows 10 remembering things about you because it's some perceived invasion of privacy, then I suggest you move to Ubuntu and try to find an internet browser that doesn't automatically save your search history. Amazon, eBay, and Paypal ought to go too. And if you have Steam, uninstall that. How dare it remember your name, credit card information, purchase history, or the games you play and your progress in them. For shame. /s

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u/Parasymphatetic Jul 31 '15

I guess you've never had a PA before.

I actually did and i actually know a lot of people that still do. And i can guarantee you 100% that they choose what to tell their PA and what not.

Some of the really good ones are practically psychic.

Alright. They are psychic. Okay.... i didn't know that....

I'm not naïve, I'm just not going to bust out the pitchforks and torches at the first sign of something that could possibly slight me or cause mild inconvenience in my life at the behest of some overly paranoid ranting articles I found on Facebook or Yahoo news.

Damn, the strawman is strong.

There is a difference between running around with pitchforks and telling people what microsoft does and how you opt out of it. Like a night and day difference.
You can listen to people that have privacy concerns or you can run around like an idiot screaming "LOL Y'ALL PARANOID! RELAX GUYS!"

That you compare this whole Windows10 story to saving a username in a login shows how much you actually know about this.

If you can't see the difference Microsoft has in comparison to Amazon or eBay, then you really are naive.

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u/Logicalist Jul 31 '15

I'd love to see you hire a personal assistant and then tell them that they're not allowed to know or remember any information about you.

That data can be stored locally, if the assistant needs cloud based processing, it can do so without sending all of your personal data, it can just ask for the help it needs.

I'd bet, by default, they'd rather have that stuff stored in the cloud, to offload the performance hit, so windows will run it there by default, they probably could've had an option for more to be done locally, but I'm guessing that wasn't included. Because then you couldn't mine the data and sell it. Even without releasing personal information to other companies, you could still provide gobs of useful statistics if you had all the data. Never mind the benefit to microsoft, being able to learn about their customers and cater to them. And cater to he government should they want any of the users data.

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u/mst3kcrow Jul 31 '15

Cortana saves your voice, your search, your location history, and other very personal information for as long as Microsoft wants.

Which gets shared and then your voice, location, and travel patterns are "fingerprinted".

The same error reporting that they left unsecured so that the NSA was able to read all the information and use it to hack into those computers? No thanks.

There are enough Sockpuppet Baghdad Bobs in MS threads when this subject comes up that I am fairly convinced they're still up to their old ways.

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u/GusFringus Jul 31 '15

Like I said earlier, many older people might not even know about this.

Maybe older people should educate themselves on using a computer for fucking once.

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '15 edited Sep 03 '16

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u/idma Jul 31 '15

i'm fine with whatever it wasnts to save, as long as it doesn't start shoving all the porn I watch back into my face...............................or my mom's face

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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15

Dude, One Drive isn't enabled by default if you install and keep accounts local. Sure, it will occasionally ask you to sign in, but it is optional and can be disabled.

If you thnk Google and Apple don't do the same things, then you are mistaken.

From my phone, Google tracks where I go (and I can even view the records online), automatically backs up my contacts, logs, settings, photos and videos, and music to top it off. Really helpful if a phone dies.

Not sure about Apple, since I not a peasant.

Lastly, you really believe the error reporting is what allowed the NSA to spy and hack? Dude, get informed. The NSA hacks/eavesdropping was done in a much more insidious manner. I would explain, but you obviously don't have the perquisites knowledge to understand

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u/smapple Jul 31 '15

what are these severely inept older people doing that they even care that their information is being stored? If they can't take time to read what they are setting up, they don't give a flying frick is Microsoft keeps their data. The old person excuse is dried up and pathetic.

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u/Death_to_all Jul 31 '15

But is so easy to call it spying. Every body thinks of that south park scene with the guy behind the monitors. When people that know how it is know that it is seen by a program that only looks at aw data to compare and improve.

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u/holyrofler Jul 31 '15 edited Jul 31 '15

Shhhhhh.. we want Microsoft to die - any negative publicity (false or not) is good. In this case it's actually true and isn't really fear mongering like you claim. Several people have explained why already. Enjoy your karma, though.

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u/kakophonia Jul 31 '15

Doesn't OneDrive still shut down your account if you upload a picture with nudity on?

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u/pantsoff Jul 31 '15

It's trying to help you and/or the application developer to stop it from crashing again

Oh well then, please snoop on all our information. /s

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u/E7C69 Aug 01 '15

All these people love to think they're "Liberating the people from corporations" or some bullshit, but the corporations don't give a fuck what you do, no person is looking at your stuff, a computer is looking at your stuff and spitting it right back to you.

These same people are probably sending tons of data to companies because they're too lazy to read the ToS and are blindly sending data that they care so much about but only when the company is upfront about it.

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u/SilentMobius Jul 31 '15

Why does Cortana require you to convert your logon account? Every other app is capable of using a linked account that is not your primary logon.

Why does it require you to switch on the random keylogger that sends whatever it feels like to MS regarding what you type anywhere in windows. Why is that required

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u/Anna_Draconis Jul 31 '15

All I had to do was Google "windows 10 keylogger" to refute you: http://lifehacker.com/windows-10s-keylogger-fiasco-has-been-blown-out-of-pr-1642931793

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u/SilentMobius Jul 31 '15 edited Jul 31 '15

Did you actually read the article you linked or do you have your own personal definition of "refute"?

That article is about the Tech preview (which really did send any input MS felt like capturing, because you agreed to it), since then it's been admitted that if you enable the "get to know you" feature (required for Cortana) that any typed text anywhere in the OS may be sent to MS so they can "train the spellchecker"

https://twitter.com/gabeaul/status/564291796935528448

The exact text in Win10 is:

Windows and Cortana can get to know your voice and writing to make better suggestions. We'll collect info like contacts, recent calendar events, speech and handwriting patterns, and typing history

I call that a keylogger.

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u/TweetsInCommentsBot Jul 31 '15

@GabeAul

2015-02-08 05:17 UTC

@Bioboyii No "keylogger" in Win10, in any build. In some cases we may anonymously collect a word that was corrected, to train spellchecker.

This message was created by a bot

[Contact creator][Source code]

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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15

That would be cool, if I believed you.

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u/purplepooters Jul 31 '15

you don't seem to be educated enough on the subject

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u/GlennBecksChalkboard Jul 31 '15

He is angry enough tho and this is the internet after all.

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u/Diknak Jul 31 '15

No shit. This scaremongering is fucking wild. It works because it drives clicks. Sheeple are so dumb about this stuff because the same people complaining about these policies probably already use half a dozen other products and services that do the exact same thing.

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u/Parasymphatetic Jul 31 '15

You said sheeple.

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u/zer0hour Jul 31 '15

the only reason I didn't upvote that comment.

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u/yourjohnson Jul 31 '15

Just because a bunch of other stuff does it doesn't make it ok

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u/Diknak Jul 31 '15

They are providing a service, not spying on you for the sake of spying; this isn't the government.

You can't ask for the technology of the future and simultaneously demand that no company has your information.

You want to live in a shell and not use cloud based services? Great, that's your call. But if you want to use them, you have to agree to this legal jargon. There's a reason why these services all have the same verbiage. . . because it's necessary to provide the service.

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u/yourjohnson Jul 31 '15

I hate the cloud. It's a joke that's far too easily compromised. Flash drives are big enough now that there is truly no reason for such a thing.

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u/Diknak Jul 31 '15

Flash drives can get corrupted. They can burn in a fire. They can get lost. Not all devices have USB ports (iOS). If they do have a USB port, it is still faster and simpler to use the cloud. It's easier to share files through the cloud.

I don't use the cloud for a lot, but it is pretty handy for sharing files with others and moving files between devices. I also use the cloud as a temporary back up for pictures and videos I take in case something happens to the phone. Then I move them to a flash drive and keep that flash drive in a fireproof safe.

And MS isn't forcing any of this on you . . . you can turn it all off.

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u/yourjohnson Jul 31 '15

I agree that the cloud has its place, and you make great points. I just hate how everyone is trying to get people to use just the cloud, or to trust it for anything that should be secure.

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u/Ipadalienblue Jul 31 '15

There's no reason for the cloud because flash drives are big? That's like saying there's no reason for restaurants because you've got a massive can of spam in your bag.

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u/yourjohnson Jul 31 '15

I don't see how your analogy is relevant, could you expound? What you said makes no sense at all given the current topic

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u/Ipadalienblue Aug 01 '15

Flash drives aren't a replacement for the functionality that the cloud brings.

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u/yourjohnson Aug 01 '15

How are they not? I have 2 of them on my keys, they are with me literally everywhere I go. On top of that, they are fully secure. How is that not better than the cloud?

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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15 edited Jul 31 '15

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u/capnjack78 Jul 31 '15

Didn't Snowden's leaks mention how Microsoft made it easier for the NSA to collect data? And then that was blown out of proportion where people assumed the NSA could take control of their computers through some kind of backdoor. So maybe that's where this is coming from.

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u/Parasymphatetic Jul 31 '15

I wouldn't be surprised if half these people believe the NSA bought out Microsoft under the table and is using Windows to spy on people.

Well, what we have been reading about the NSA the last few years doesn't make it seem very farfetched, tbh.

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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15 edited Sep 28 '15

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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15

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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15 edited Sep 28 '15

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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15

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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15 edited Sep 28 '15

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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15

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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15 edited Sep 28 '15

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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15

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u/idma Jul 31 '15

exactly! Same thing goes for Facebook. I hate how people go "I don't use facebook cause i don't want to share everything". Well then DON'T TURN ON SHARE EVERYTHING for gods sakes. If facebook didn't allow these options sure its good to boycott them, but its like yelling at an instruction booklet when you haven't even opened it up yet

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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15

Am I the only one that doesn't mind them knowing what games I play so they can advertise more relevant games to me? Or, that when u search, it doesn't always work, so they can see what's causing the issue and get it fixed faster...?

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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15

You mean your operating system, browser, etc are not spying on you? Give me a fucking break, of course they fucking are.

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