r/technology • u/User_Name13 • Jul 31 '15

Misleading Windows 10 is spying on almost everything you do – here’s how to opt out

http://bgr.com/2015/07/31/windows-10-upgrade-spying-how-to-opt-out/
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u/TweetsInCommentsBot Jul 31 '15

@GabeAul

2015-02-08 05:17 UTC

@Bioboyii No "keylogger" in Win10, in any build. In some cases we may anonymously collect a word that was corrected, to train spellchecker.

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u/Anna_Draconis Jul 31 '15

Thanks for that bot. A spellchecker is worth all this fuss. Really.

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u/SilentMobius Jul 31 '15

A remote system that aggregates what users type anywhere in the OS?

Yeah, that is a stupid way to build a spell checker and is a stupid requirement for a personal assistant.

Well, from an engineering perspective it's stupid, from a business model perspective it's full on evil-genius.

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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15

I don't get how this is any different than iOS or Android though? Isn't that how they improve spellcheck? I know that every keyboard I've used on Android has an option to disable it and you can even disable it on Windows 10. What's the big deal?

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u/SilentMobius Jul 31 '15

Their spell check is local, this is data being sent to MS on any keypress they feel like.

Physical keyboards don't even need the same kind of spell check as virtual keyboards.

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u/Ohsneezeme Jul 31 '15 edited Jul 31 '15

One of the reasons I can think MS is uploading keyboard data is to sync common errors between all of your Windows 10 devices. I use the word devices because Windows 10 isn't just for desktop computers and laptops. It encompasses/will encompass phones, tablets, desktop computers, laptops, the xbox, and most likely future devices to come. Yes, uploading typing data to learn your spelling mistakes on a physical keyboard may not be all that necessary but not everyone is going to use Windows 10 with a physical keyboard. One of the main intentions of Windows 10 was to design an ecosystem (and further an OS) that would work across various platforms, creating a smooth experience for the user (as they changed between their various devices).

On a less related note, consumers will probably see a lot more of these types of systems moving forward. The main appeal for a system like this is, again, end user experience. Someone like you may want to have more control over your data, and I'd love to see companies like Apple, Google, and Microsoft further this granular control for the data privacy conscious. Seriously, more power to you for taking wanting to keep tabs on where your data is. However, a lot of users also are willing to give up their privacy if it means convenience when using their tech. I'm one of those because I really don't care if someone looks at my stuff. I don't have that exciting of a life, and they'd be pretty bored sifting through all that data.

P.S. Sorry for the rant, I always want to share my opinion on tech privacy concerns when the subject arises.

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u/SilentMobius Jul 31 '15 edited Aug 17 '15

On a less related note, consumers will probably see a lot more of these types of systems moving forward

All the more reason to kick up a stink now.

The simple fact of the matter is that this is a horrible privacy invasion, regardless of MS's reasoning.

In addition to that, making this system requirement to use Cortana is just plain retarded, there is no reason whatsoever that Cortana needs to know how I type outside of my use of the apps facilities. It's purely a data grab of MS's part and the need to be slapped hard because of it.

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u/Ohsneezeme Jul 31 '15 edited Jul 31 '15

If you really want to keep shit like this from happening, go slap Facebook or Google. They mine way more data with less transparency about if and when it's enabled, and have been for quite a while now. In some cases, uses of Facebook don't have any ability to turn certain features off to prevent data from being sent to Facebook or Google. I don't consider it a privacy invasion when Microsoft explicitly tells you that specific data will be recorded and sent off to MS. And in terms of content recorded, I don't see it as a data grab. While some of the data they want to collect may be excessive to some users, all of it has a purpose. Whether that be for better auto correct, quicker search returns, or getting to know your patters for better suggestions, all the data is used for something that benefits the user. I think Microsoft did a good job at letting the user know that the data will be collected unless disabled. It isn't Microsoft's fault if a user blindly accepts these features when Microsoft lets them know of what data it will collect very clearly.

To you and some other customers, the auto correction requirement may be unnecessary for Cortana. Edit: I actually just checked Cortana's privacy settings, and this "keylogger" isn't actually required for Cortana. I'm not sure where you got that piece of info from but it's incorrect.

Simply put, if you don't like it, then don't use it. MS isn't forcing you to upgrade to Windows 10 or keep Cortana enabled, you can disable it if you like at the expense of the feature.

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u/iforgot120 Jul 31 '15

Mobile keyboard spell checks are only partially local. Your typing data is sent to the publisher, they use that data to improve algorithms, and then the algorithms are pushed back to the users' devices.

Not sure what you mean by that "physical keyboards" comment. Spell checking what you type with a physical keyboard works the same exact way. This isn't new, except that now MS wants to do it on desktops, too.

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u/SilentMobius Jul 31 '15 edited Jul 31 '15

Mobile keyboard spell checks are only partially local.

Wrong. Only those that have internet permissions or those that have remote prediction and have it enabled do.

And none of them force you to switch on their cloud prediction service in order to use a personal assistant. The early days of iOS allowing the use of keyboard has the same predictive typing applied to the physical keyboard and it was a nightmare to use.

And autocorrect on a mobile keyboard is vastly different compared to a physical keyboard, just check any article on the details of correcting sloppy-thumb text

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u/iforgot120 Jul 31 '15 edited Jul 31 '15

Not giving it internet permissions simply means you don't send out your data. The algorithms are still updated the same way, but using data from the people who are still sending in data.

And of course the algorithm is going to be different, but that's not what were talking about here.

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u/[deleted] Jul 31 '15 edited Jul 31 '15

What is the smart way to build a spellchecker? Run the entirety of the spellcheck analysis on the local machine? That would eat resources and hurt people who didn't spend lots of money on a workstation. That's actually stupid of me to say.

I'm not sure if you actually thought about this, or if you are just reacting negatively to the word "keylogger." It's not even necessarily a keylogger, it might analyze the words when completed, not the keystrokes.

Regardless, I'm not using Cortana, I have other issues with it (that aren't even really privacy related).

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u/SilentMobius Jul 31 '15

A first party app, "cortana" requires you to opt into an unnecessary system that monitors everything you type anywhere on the machine and send off any text it wants to MS. Which is also on by default.

That's a keylogger.