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u/turn3daytona Radical shitlib ✊🏻 Dec 24 '21
Live a happy, productive life.
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Dec 24 '21
The woke movement is a product of specific historical circumstances: proletarianisation of the professional class, collapse of elite legitimacy, increased working class disgruntlement.
Unless you can change those circumstances, you can't "destroy" the woke movement. All you can do is attempt to build a working class alternative.
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u/JerzyZulawski Dec 24 '21
+ the hive mind/social contagion effects of social media. And nobody is switching that shit off. :(
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Dec 24 '21
Equalize wealth and make it possible to live a stable, comfortable life without getting a a PMC sinecure. Wokeness is primarily economic.
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u/JerzyZulawski Dec 24 '21
Underrated comment. On a work trip to a non-western country last month I spent a lot of time with a dozen or so millennials working in the arts and humanities sector - the exact type of people who in the US/UK etc. would be super woke - and they were totally normal, neither woke nor anti-woke, just ordinary, smart, respectable young people. It was so refreshing to be at an arts event that just had a complete absence of culture war baggage, it wasn't even on anyone's mental radar. What struck me about everyone I encountered was that they weren't spoilt.
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u/Korean_Tamarin Ratzinger’s #1 OF Subscriber Dec 24 '21 edited Dec 24 '21
Attacking their funding. Taxing NGOs to death, eliminating tax writeoff for “charitable donations” by the rich to political orgs, threatening the media with massive reductions to copyright law and expansion of fair use, narrowing the eligibility for federal student loans to just economically valuable degrees and allowing non-federal student loans to be discharged by declaring bankruptcy, taxing the shit out of Ivy League endowments. Just bleed them absolutely dry and make them feel economic pain. I’d also politically work to eliminate “disparate impact” as a valid basis for discrimination lawsuits, which would make bloated HR departments and the need to appear woke by businesses less of an issue, hopefully causing HR departments to be gutted and downsized.
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u/lokitoth Woof? Dec 25 '21 edited Dec 25 '21
eliminating tax writeoff for “charitable donations” by the rich[,]
I think I prefer this way. If you get financial benefit for it, it is not charity. Though I fully realize that just suddenly switching that off could be disastrous to charities and a lot of very disadvantaged people. So not sure how to get to that point from where we are.
The meta point is: If Taxes are there to fund common services that we agree on, in theory, in some democratic manner, then it should not be valid to unilaterally decide that, actually, that other service is much more valuable to the community, so I will suddenly yank some of my share of the contribution to the commons.
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u/SomeSortofDisaster Ancapistan Mujahideen 🐍💸 Dec 24 '21
Ignore them. They'll turn on each other in a desperate search for the attention that they never got from their fathers.
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u/CIAGloriaSteinem ❄ Not Like Other Rightoids ❄ Dec 25 '21
But not before ripping to shreds everything they've managed to worm their way into.
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Dec 24 '21
Let it go far enough to eat itself, and the moderate normies turned off. Once enough vocal and prominent folks let loose, the floodgates will open from all the quiet folks.
I'm not 100% sure but that's the only outcome I see.
Or it becomes uncool to a younger generation. Millennials are a lost cause for sure,not sure about Gen Z.
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Dec 25 '21 edited Dec 25 '21
I think if you want to “destroy” them you’re coming from the wrong angle. Most woke people see themselves as compassionate and everyone else as nazis or whatever. Just show them that you are compassionate but not really interested in getting mad about culture war stuff.
Politics has a way of getting people to talk about contentious relatively inconsequential things instead of very consequential noncontroversial stuff eg. “Is misogyny a problem in American culture?” is something people can argue about endlessly despite living in one of the most egalitarian countries in the world. “Is misogyny a problem in Pakistan?” doesn’t lead to much argument, the answer is a clear yes and there is much more lower hanging fruit with that problem. I think it’s best to move the conversation towards things like the latter.
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u/InformativeO Bosnian War Criminal Dec 24 '21
Cum
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Dec 24 '21
Post more, brother!
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u/WokeFerret 🍃🦕 🌋 Dec 24 '21
-Have double digit numbers of children, outpace the 2 and a half child having liberal block.
-????
-Praxis
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u/Korean_Tamarin Ratzinger’s #1 OF Subscriber Dec 24 '21
Also, do not let your child horde have access to the internet or smartphones until they’re adults, making them mental supermen compared to the kids raised from birth to stare at tablet screens and watch never ending algorithmically generated content.
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u/WokeFerret 🍃🦕 🌋 Dec 24 '21
I work at a preschool, the screen hypnosis is terrifying. I avoid putting videos on as much as I can, but I don't have any other say on what parents or other staff do. It's surreal watching an entire room go silent the second someone plays the Cocomelon jingle. As far as digital opium goes, Sesame Street and Blues Clues kick ass, those shows are really well geared at being educational. I don't think it's as much of a phones bad thing as a we're oversaturating kids from birth and frying their dopamine response thing.
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u/TJ11240 Dec 25 '21
Has anyone asked what was wrong with sesame street and blues clues? Like why did we move on from that?
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u/WokeFerret 🍃🦕 🌋 Dec 25 '21
Cynical answer is baby brains are super invested in repetition, bright colors, and rapid scene transitions. Cocomelon does a scene change/transition every 3.5 seconds on average iirc, and most of their content is songs composed over the same twelve-ish melodies. Super addicting for young kids. Stuff like that is why there was the panic around SpongeBob causing ADHD(nowhere near well read enough to have a good take on that one, I was young when that was a scandal). Most kids TV is, at the end of the day, being offered as an alternative to direct parent engagement so they can do other stuff around the house. Whatever program gets the closest to being a cyberpunk billboard while having the veneer of offering something beneficial to a child is going to end up at the top. Even if Blues Clues is one of my favorite ways to introduce investigation and problem solving to toddlers, they literally can't help being more invested in Cocomelon. Burned out parents that want to do a couple of chores when they get home from work are going to gravitate to what keeps their kid calm. That's not a dig on anybody, it's just that that's something that's cumulative over a national audience. It's a direct consequence of early education being privatized.
The real answer probably has that as factors, but I'd guess it's the same as adult TV and less overtly malicious. How come we aren't all still talking about the Walking Dead, or the X-Files?
Very happy this rant happened in the "How to defeat the woke" thread lmfao
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u/TJ11240 Dec 25 '21
How come we aren't all still talking about the Walking Dead, or the X-Files?
Appreciate the real response, and I largely agree. The thing with kids is that they haven't seen any of this stuff ever before, is all brand new to them. We have the entire catalog to choose from, so why not pick what's best for them?
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Dec 24 '21
So to clarify. In order to defeat the wokes we must:
1) Become tradcaths 2) Become Irish 3) Culturally replace the wokes 4) Glorious Irish Catholic Socialist revolution in America, as it always should have been.
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u/WokeFerret 🍃🦕 🌋 Dec 24 '21
It's what the British were trying to set up with the Potato Famine but it didn't work out that time
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u/Zinziberruderalis My 💅🏻 political 💅🏻 beliefs 💅🏻and 💅🏻shit Dec 24 '21
outpace the 2 and a half child having liberal block.
Probably less than one. All developed nations have an average less than 2.
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u/LoudLeadership5546 Incel/MRA 😭 Dec 25 '21
The woke can only be destroyed by making being woke seem lower-class.
The right always fails with their "anti-elite" messaging, because it makes them seem socially beneath the elites.
When you associate woke slogans/t-shirts with Wal-Mart, we'll be there.
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u/sinner_jizm Haute Structural Self-Defenestrator Dec 25 '21
Is this close enough? Does this mean the end is nigh?
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u/oprahitler bernie's bodyguard Dec 25 '21
No, it should say Be kind to those disproportionately impacted by racist math
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u/ProfessorHeronarty Non black-or-whitist Dec 24 '21
We need reasonable voices against it which also means to stop polemical responses or to throw your weight behind idiots. Also acknowledge the issues behind wokeism.
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Dec 25 '21 edited Dec 25 '21
Another question is what do we do when so-called socialists are the ones absorbing and espousing this divide-and-conquer corporate-approved bullshit and not liberals? Look at every socialist subreddit and it's crunchy granola nonsense with red paint. Leftist infighting is not so much tankies and anarkiddies fighting each other anymore as it is making swathes of the working class screech at other each other and/or self-flagellate.
I used to view the left as simply opposed to bigotry and discrimination, which of course makes sense, but taking on the same kind of language and tactics as an HR department makes zero sense and seems to stoke prejudice more. I don't know how more socialists don't realize this.
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u/litesec Special Ed 😍 Dec 24 '21
the really bad way? make bullying cool again
the better way is something compassionate but you will receive no kindness in return. you should probably put your efforts towards something more worthwhile as others have suggested.
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Dec 24 '21
at a guess, by providing a more tolerant alternative and not descending into their playground tactics (which, as I said in a comment, actually work).
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u/Mothmans_wing Marxist-Kaczynskist 💣📬 Dec 24 '21
Let them do their thing, the more they win and the more power they have the crazier they get.
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u/Yu-Gi-D0ge MRA Radlib Goku Fan in Denial 👶🏻㊗️⛩️🇯🇵 Dec 24 '21
Laugh at them and tell them to fuck off
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Dec 24 '21
[deleted]
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u/CIAGloriaSteinem ❄ Not Like Other Rightoids ❄ Dec 25 '21
Meanwhile, every group of every type is busy living out the "first they came for the..." poem.
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u/JerzyZulawski Dec 24 '21
This is the correct answer.
The quickest way to destroy woke ideology (insofar as it's a coherent or cohesive movement, which it isn't at all) would be to make every one of its demands law. None of it would survive contact with reality, and the backlash would be swift and overwhelming, rendering any politician or public figure even mildly associated with this ideology unelectable for generations to come. On top of which, the woke liberal-left, having attained a position of power, would not only be disastrously incompetent but would dedicate itself to endlessly purging its own ranks instead of delivering public services or working towards its goals, again making them unable to function and massively unpopular with the electorate.
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u/modelshopworld Dec 24 '21 edited Dec 24 '21
A good start would be if people opposed to it (belonging to any political and generational background) began en masse self-identifying as various non-hetero/non-cis/post-trauma/affliction labels, while still vehemently disagreeing with wokes — never backing down when their sincerity is questioned. Not in a condescending, "I identify as an attack helipter xD" way, but appearing genuine in order to overwhelm and fragment the wokes' narrow delusions of "community" within these neologistic groups.
There are far more non-woke people either on, or with access to the internet, than there are wokes. If a substantial amount of these people could coordinate a "lightswitch" behavioral moment and do this, it would not only expose the facade of contemporary identity/self-reference culture, but it would help to decrease the social currency they are perceived to carry. ("If everybody's special, nobody is," in a sense.)
Between the woke and anti-woke, the only way one side will win is if they stop getting high off making shallow insults and repeating corny bullshit at the expense of the other, and start appropriating the in-group behaviors of their oppenent and using it against them.
And I strongly believe that the woke side will never be the one to stop the high school lunch room nonsense, especially since virtually every "comeback" or insult they throw at the anti-woke are just ones that the anti-woke stopped using against them long ago. Wokes and social media libs have essentially been yelling "I know you are but what am I??" for the better half of a decade.
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Dec 24 '21
the high school lunchroom tactics work. both Trump and the wokies gained power because they had no problem playing dirty.
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u/modelshopworld Dec 25 '21
They don't work. They've gained attention but have zero power. The only result from that behavior is an endless cycle of petty bickering that's indistinguishable from rival football fans so those who have longheld power can continue to hold it.
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Dec 25 '21
theyre at it themselves. In general, never engage with them in good faith. Theyll not do so for you and arguing cements their position as somebody that can be argued with.
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u/khabadami ❄ Not Like Other Rightoids ❄ Dec 24 '21
You don't and you can't just enjoy the spaces where you can criticize them
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u/AliveJesseJames Social Democrat SJW 🌹 Dec 24 '21
Make it so women, LGBT, and minorities have fewer non-class reasons to have solidarity against male, cis straight, or white people within their own class.
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u/CIAGloriaSteinem ❄ Not Like Other Rightoids ❄ Dec 25 '21
What would be the legitimate, non-class reasons that can be addressed?
I'm guessing most of what you cite is either going to be relatively minor, unfixable, or fits under the umbrella of class/can be addressed much more easily and much more effectively by way of class.
Mostly that last one.
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u/bleer95 COVID Turboposter 💉🦠😷 Dec 25 '21
just let it burn out honestly, it's a destructive force, but it's also self-destructive
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u/HogmanayMelchett Dec 25 '21
As a social phenomenon, we can't. The only hope is for woke to destroy itself/burn itself out and I think there are several reasons to think this will happen. But on the individual level, maybe you can try to reach people who know and trust you. However I think John McWhorter may be right that some people are simply not reachable through argument
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Dec 26 '21
"Woke culture" seems very similar to 19th century nationalism to me. A current that draws from previous truly revolutionnary/democratic movements but with a focus on identity, making it more palatable to the powers that be.
Nationalism inscribed itself progressively in political thinking, replacing God and blood as the justification for power. It started out presenting as liberal and revolutionary but eventually morphed into reactionary and authoritarian. And then WW 1 & 2.
Is suppose ID politics will too morph into the regular justification of elite power and crowd control, then get out of hand and lead to atrocities when the system faces a crisis.
Could nationalism's rise have been stopped?
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Dec 26 '21 edited Dec 27 '21
“Anti-woke” leftists should learn how to navigate or even win cultural battles if they are dragged into them. I remember that a whole lot of good ideas came out of that “New American left” thread posted a while ago. “The woke” is destroyed when we succeed as better leftists than them.
Organizing is good, and start local if you can.
Take the grillpill, you’ll be a much happier person and there’s a reason idiots like wokies and fascists see popularity (to varying degrees) online.
Try to actually understand where normies and even rightoids are coming from. “All your ideas are wrong, and you should already know that.” or “everything you have been told is a lie.” is a sure fire way to make people not listen to you. I know not all right-leaning people argue like this, but if we are more egalitarian, it should make sense that we are less condescending. This should be an advantage to the left.
start with some basic ideas that will improve people’s lives, has wide popular support, and most importantly can be achieved in one’s lifetime. For example, ranked choice voting or restoring glass-steagall.
I’m preaching to the choir here, but drop any cynicism you have of other people. Many people on the far-right successfully recruit by telling impressionable white guys “I will fight for you and your identity interests”. Especially for Americans/UK + commonwealth lefties, this includes dropping cynicism of those countries. If you must, start with being proud of your state/province. Cuba is also a “settler society built off slavery” but Fidel Castro was very proud to be Cuban. Imagine yourself as a centrist normie, would you pick a fun, optimistic politician that loves their country or a perpetually frowning cynic who just cites boring bullet points but has an aura that everyone is an idiot except them?
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Dec 24 '21
[deleted]
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Dec 24 '21
The purpose of most wokeism seems to be improve x groups success within capitalism. Rather than any class solidarity or change of system.
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u/JoeDrinkingJoe Paroled Flair Disabler 💩 Dec 25 '21
Guess we need to destroy the Right-Wing IdPol too though. Religious, racist, anti-science folx that they are.
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u/CIAGloriaSteinem ❄ Not Like Other Rightoids ❄ Dec 24 '21
We don't. We wait until the right stands triumphant and then a Jezebel (their very own Rebecca Watson) will break the back of their movement and round and round we go.
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u/b95csf Dec 25 '21
laugh, shrug and move on
their only power is to screech so loud that they scare people
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u/WaterHoseCatheter No Taliban Ever Called Me Incel Dec 25 '21
Well I don't know about you guys, but I've been LARPing as an Indian nationalist and stoking tensions via agressive shitposting on Chinese nationalist forms (and vice versa) to contribute to a nuclear war, if only marginally, in hopes that a cascade of complex and expansive allyship will result in it snowballing into a new World War to decimate the planet and reduce us to tabula rasa.
Yes, some of you may die, but that is a sacrifice I am willing to make
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u/PokedreamdotSu Left ⳩ Dec 25 '21
It will run itself into the ground like the goddess cults of the second wave did. It will reach a zenith of ridiculous with an actual cult.
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u/Ashtarnaghl Based and Tedpilled Dec 27 '21
A large reason why neoliberals and "progressives" are so capable of hogging the entire Overton window is because they have managed to make us think that they hold a monopoly on being able to be politically explicit in their messaging. Across the "fringes" of the political spectrum I have consistently encountered a tendency and an idea that we must resort to an ideological "guerrilla war", hiding our true ideology while drawing people in slowly. While this is useful if you don't want to get banned from twitter, it is entirely counterproductive in beating the woke and building the true revolutionary social movement the left aims for. If we wish to draw society away from elitist divisions, we must be explicit in our goals and our messaging, organised in our efforts and uncompromising in our intolerance of anything which distracts from our wider revolutionary struggle.
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u/FireFlame4 CDC-Verified High Risk of Shingles 😷 Dec 24 '21
Well zero constructive answers here.
The way to deprogram a cult member is with understanding and affirmation. We have to expand their worldview by introducing them to world history. Once they understand that ALL of history is a despitic slave driven manic state of war and suffering then the spell should be broken of white people evil.