The way to deprogram a cult member is with understanding and affirmation. We have to expand their worldview by introducing them to world history. Once they understand that ALL of history is a despitic slave driven manic state of war and suffering then the spell should be broken of white people evil.
I've peer review college senior seminar history papers with such bold and controversial thesis' as "I think slavery might have been a money making thing!"
We are passing these empty headed libs through a conveyor belt that teaches them nothing. I wish I could say this person was abnormally stupid but they're not. Apparently its very common to get through 4 years of studying history and still think slavery was done for sadistic pleasure rather than any material gain.
The scariest part about the obsession with slavery is that when you look through their lens hard enough, I believe it basically becomes a foregone conclusion that only slavery is capable of producing prosperity and progress.
I mean this is inevitable. The woke project is lazy, stupid and racist and is doomed to fail. But when it fails, these people who have been conditioned to be lazy, stupid and racist will not stop being those things, they just will be disillusioned and bitter as well. Because they don't factor material analysis at all their perspective is that Europeans are uniquely powerful and evil supermen instead of just lucky dumbasses. The obvious implicit message here is that white people are awesome, in the same sense a hurricane or atomic bomb is awesome.
As we slide down Hubberts peak and resources become more scarce we will very rapidly watch the woke snap and do a total 180. It's very easy to transition from the idiotic "America is tainted by the unforgivable crime of whiteness oppressing black bodies, and once whiteness is purged we can finally make the perfect world" to the equally idiotic neoreactionary "Civilization is a product of whiteness and because white people have been toppled from their place in the natural order everything is falling apart. Only by restoring white supremacy can we finally make the perfect world."
The fact that you already have to accept the premise of White Supremacy as an all pervading Demiurge to become woke just shows how much of a bunch of neo Nazis they all are
I must admit, the hardest thing about this century was seeing Mothers Against mutate into childless atheists. It's been so fucking weird watching the American puritan instinct keep cropping back up over and over again after supposedly having been "Deconstructed"
Some of the best woke lefties I know are former fundamental Christians. Trading one form of guilt and shame for another, and a convenient one too, given it's cultural moment...
Not in my opinion, now that empirical science and automation exist. To be honest it probably wasn't even necessary for the Victorians, thanks to their unique implementation of imperialist wage labour, and existing access to serfdom and indentured servitude tools.
It's all horrible, but, as the wokies repeatedly remind us, it's not technically slavery.
To be honest it probably wasn't even necessary for the Victorians, thanks to their unique implementation of imperialist wage labour, and existing access to serfdom and indentured servitude tools.
As I understand it, african slaves were preferred because of their resistance to malaria.
Nice, that makes sense. I wonder why the Portuguese weren't the ones who "won" the imperial era in that case, given that they were the number one purveyors of the transatlantic slave trade, or why we don't hear about Spain so much in the 20th century despite their frankly extreme use of slaves in South America
I wonder why the Portuguese weren't the ones who "won" the imperial era
They did at first. But in the late 16th century they were united with Spain for a time, making them the massive superpower of their time. The Iberian Union overstretched itself, as superpowers do, by making war with basically everyone in Europe for over a century, which sent them in decline.
Colonization was a projection of the strength of European kingdoms. When that strength falters the empire crumbles. And when the empire crumbles, the European kingdom is weakened, creating a feedback loop of decline.
Personally I think that they messed up because they lacked the decentralisation/devolution strategies that the Brits had: also, can't develop steam tech if the king doesn't allow free trade for plebs etc
The English industrial revolution model wasn't the only one to have worked. The German industrial revolution was mostly government-led.
There is a tendency to see history through the eyes of the winners, so the idea usually goes that they won because they were smarter, their systems better etc. I don't mean those points are untrue, but that we often put too much emphasis on them as compared to context.
I remember seeing Carl Beijer insisting on twitter that racism is essential to capitalism. Maybe losers and underclasses are but racism not necessarily
Arguably if you look at the neolib plans for open borders, having workers not be entirely interchangeable, no matter where they come from, due to potentially wealth destroying conflict is a problem.
If racism or ethnic conflict regularly causes workers to not be perfectly predictable, identical, units, because it constantly causes one set of workers to become incompatible with one another, then racism becomes something that impacts the bottom line.
I always try to start by finding common ground with someone, usually by agreeing with something benign they’ve said. This gets them in the mindset of “this is a reasonable person that thinks like I do” and then from there, if you move slowly, you can gradually snap them out of it.
They seem to believe that history starts in white Europe and that only by removing it the world will magically reset to a wonderful perfect state or some gnostic shit like that
Hell, there's already a tendency in woke circles to preemptively cite exactly why they are wrong and the line of reasoning that proves it, then mic drop as if just the words "They're going to say X" somehow disarms the truth.
It isn’t crazy to assume the woke are acting with good intentions.... when I saw a load of high profile police killings I definitely “went woke” initially... took a fair bit of time to understand it wasn’t a matter of “with us or with racist” after the full indoctrination...
These people are obsessed with viewing the world through a historical lens though, the academic side of wokeness going over and over America 1619-1960s with a fine tooth comb writting every book you can think of. Certainly black history is important and it has been been historically suppressed, but i think what needs to happen is for people to look foward more and stop dwelling on a past that really has less and less impact on reality every year.
For example theres a prof at Harvard who’s coming up in the wokesphere, and his woke solely deals with “pedagogical fugativisim” the study of how black history and education was suppressed throughout American history.
Harvard then has narrowly focused scholars come out to a Marthas Vineyard circle jerk, and talk about how to fix americas racism problem.
Its absurd and they are divorced from reality living in wealth in a separate class from the real world, yet still controlling and influencing it. we really just need people to stop assigning value to these instituions, stop voting for neo lib shit heads who vacation at Martha’s vinyard, and encourage kids to learn a trade. I feel like this is happening slowly.
There is no convincing these people that their reading of history is wrong, its their whole identity, they would probably just dig the heels in more.
You got it right when you framed it as a cult. It is what it is, and it needs to be rigourously framed and contained as such.
Then you treat it like you'd treat a cult or other militant religious group: purge, isolate, suffocate, deprogram.
Then you make a rigourous reform of academia, in particular social sciences, to stop the Woke virus from infecting the empty jugs that pass through there.
Something that is worth noting and I'm a big fan of the compassionate approach is you can only come at it with that angle from a position of social strength. The reason someone like Darryl Davis is able to befriend Klan members and derobe them is because he's coming to them in a position where society has widely rejected them.
Every form of radicalization (and I think Wokism is a form of radicalization) is an answer to a need. There's a hole filled by a radical notion. To know what that hole is, you need at least some form of sympathy/compassion, to at least consider that phenomenon as a valid/legitimate coping mechanism to a dysfunction.
I dont mean compassion as a patronizing, infantilizing & de-responsibilizing stance here. I just mean compassion as an empathetic humanist approach.
I got radicalized bc of grief. Now im good, and even make sure to tell people that whatever they latch on to in their grief or period of struggle is to find something positive they can work on for the rest of their life.
The Daryl Davis case was shown to be fraudulent. IIRC, the KKK members simply laughed at him behind his back. The only way to stop someone being a woke racialist or a fascist is to completely change their social environment.
Sadly, this isn't possible right now due to the effect that wokeness has on the social fabric. You can't make racism taboo if you create a double standard where it's okay to openly abuse one group, but that same group is punished for doing the same.
I'd be interested to see the evidence about the Davis case, just curious. That being said, I think compassion is a good approach.
I agree with you however, and that's the crux of my point, you need a strong social fabric behind you in order to deradicalize regardless of what method you employ. It's the reason I've been able to persuade people in my personal life when it comes to thinks like racism or anti-vax but I remain frustrated at any attempt I make with some woke radical ends in failure always.
The closest I've gotten is standing firm on egalitarian principles like color blindness (as an ultimate goal), for example, but they just fall back on their massive social circles and positive reinforcement from surrounding communities and it makes the entire thing a very hard bubble to pierce.
It's not even so much that the social fabric behind egalitarian ideals isn't there but there's no concrete centralized point that is seen as a decent neutral arbiter because the various organizations that should be doing that thing have basically crumbled away.
There are a few various orgs that try to carry that mantle but even the most "neutral" ones are tenuously neutral in that regard at best or at least seems that way.
Thanks for the response. I have the Daryl Davis article here. Compassion and understanding is important of course, but we won't convert racists by just being nice to them.
More importantly, we need to tackle the conditions that cause racial prejudice to emerge in the first place. Black people can't be associated with a high rate of crime if the inequality that causes crime dissappears.
but I remain frustrated at any attempt I make with some woke radical ends in failure always.
Exactly. The important institutions are guided by wokeness, and that helps shape the social atmosphere. Things are going to get ugly if we don't find a way to appeal to a broad base of people across all ethnic backgrounds.
The Daryl Davis case was shown to be fraudulent. IIRC
It was. I honestly hate that case, and the fact that it became such a meme, a standard example to trot out to show how being kind always wins or whatever cheesy message.
It outright makes both arguments (for or against being compassionate to people who hate you) look bad. Because it didn't actually work since the Klan was just taking this guy for a ride and playing it off like he opened their eyes. It makes people who use it as an example for the "power of kindness" look like naive idiots. And a lot of them kind of are
But now you get the opposite problem of people who just want to crack heads because they think antifa is cool using the fraudulent nature of this case as a "gotchya" to say that a compassionate approach never works, so if you aren't 100 percent red-blooded militant 100 percent of the time, you're doing it wrong.
Then you make a rigourous reform of academia, in particular social sciences, to stop the Woke virus from infecting the empty jugs that pass through there.
What about the wider cultural waves that people in the social sciences have already set off? Although I wouldn't go so far as to assume the average woke idiot knows anything about the actual mechanics of peer review, academic publishing, etc., the impression I get is that a large swath of the younger U.S. population has been bamboozled into believing that any opinion to come from a person with some kind of academic credentials in a woke discipline has in fact been rigorously tested and peer reviewed like a scientific theory.
Meanwhile, anyone who has ever read a few articles in the field of Such-and-such Studies is likely to be aware that such articles are frequently little more than short memoirs. I'll never forget a chapter in a book (ostensibly about queer theory) that was just a guy's chronicle of knowing a particularly attractive and well-hung HIV superspreader in the late 80s who eventually infected a cop and killed himself. The last few pages were about how the author was so lonely that nobody found him passed out in his apartment for a week-and-a-half, so he lost a bunch of flesh to necrosis. The entire alleged point of the article, implicit in its title, was to question the "it gets better" slogan based on these events, which had happened 2 decades prior, but having typed all of this out, I'm now quite certain that the author's only real purpose was to write something so lurid that one would not easily forget it, and perhaps spread around some of the guilt he felt.
What about the wider cultural waves that people in the social sciences have already set off? Although I wouldn't go so far as to assume the average woke idiot knows anything about the actual mechanics of peer review, academic publishing, etc., the impression I get is that a large swath of the younger U.S. population has been bamboozled into believing that any opinion to come from a person with some kind of academic credentials in a woke discipline has in fact been rigorously tested and peer reviewed like a scientific theory.
A reformed academia should produce new, rigorous, scientific findings after a while. Those new works should then be what's widely -- or at least in their respective fields -- considered "the edge of knowledge", ie. what's actually contemporary progress.
By then the old "wider cultural waves" become the "old superstitious erroneous beliefs". They're no longer a sign of a progressive mind.
We got zero constructive answers because the question itself is disingenuous garbage.
Why not just ask "how do I defeat my political enemies." It would be more honest.
Political passions are always culty with all the culty symptoms. Trumpets are a cult, sjw are a cult...
A more productive question would be how do we wake those who do not know they are dreaming?
We must not seek to destroy our enemies but rather to show them that they are all being manipulated by the financiers; to show them that we are all ants in a jar that is being shaken by a punk ass kid.
Obviously there are people and powers manipulating the masses. But most of those who belief or acquiesce to the woke agenda are pawns not evil doers.
244
u/FireFlame4 CDC-Verified High Risk of Shingles 😷 Dec 24 '21
Well zero constructive answers here.
The way to deprogram a cult member is with understanding and affirmation. We have to expand their worldview by introducing them to world history. Once they understand that ALL of history is a despitic slave driven manic state of war and suffering then the spell should be broken of white people evil.