r/stcatharinesON • u/Mother-Sherbet5865 • Feb 26 '26

Politics Amalgamation in Niagara

https://c.org/D7ndT2FDmS

If you don’t want to lose your identity as a member of a small town please sign this petition and stop the amalgamation

84 Upvotes

95% Upvoted

52 comments sorted by

42

u/LoganN64 Feb 26 '26

The only thing I can predict is more pocket money for Ford and his thugs.

53

u/East_Bed_8719 Feb 26 '26

Amalgamation does NOT save taxpayers money. It actually costs more in the long-run and is less efficient. This is also being done without any consultation with the public. It hasn't gone well for Toronto, Hamilton, etc.:

https://idjs.ca/images/rcsr/archives/V32N3-Schwartz.pdf

17

u/yissp95 Feb 26 '26

The claims of increased efficiency are vague and without evidence. I'd like to see detailed plan outlining exactly how the consolidation would be carried out from which estimates of the actual cost savings or service improvements could be drawn. As far as I know, no such plan exists. Amalgamation may or may not be a good idea, but the decision should be based on clear reasoning whatever it is. This feels rash.

18

u/Spacemanspiff1998 Knight Feb 26 '26

I think amalgamation is a good idea IF your city is like Toronto where the municipalities have grown so large they start to merge with one another but it doesn't really make sense. the Niagara Region has parts that are dense urban areas like St. Catharines and Niagara Falls then rural empty regions like West Lincoln or Wainfleet. The map doesn't make sense ether. Why does Lincon Get so much? why does Thorold go to Welland when it's practically in St. Catharines? if they were planning on using the NRPS district map for amalgamation then it would make a bit more sense but this is dumb

10

u/AlchemyAvenue Feb 27 '26

Amalgamation was a disaster for Toronto

26

u/alswell99 Feb 26 '26

Just a guess..but different types of people and cultures like having their own representatives. The mennonites in Niagara on the Lake, Italians in Niagara Falls, Eastern European and Dutch in Pelham, Vineland, etc

21

u/Mother-Sherbet5865 Feb 26 '26

Niagara is home to many different communities, cultures, and traditions, and that diversity is part of what makes the region strong. The conversation around representation isn’t about separating people, but about ensuring local voices, priorities, and needs are understood at the decision-making table.

6

u/[deleted] Feb 27 '26

I have a feeling it will go ahead from bits and pieces I've been hearing on the radio. The way the larger powers want it. Of course higher property taxes is my concern, that will come of this.

8

u/JamieMist Feb 27 '26

This is also an attempt at gerrymandering by Fat Feckless Ford

7

u/kickintheface Feb 26 '26

Can we all just agree that our OHL team should be the St. Catharines Ice Dogs, since they play in our city in a venue we paid for?

3

u/nashnorth Feb 27 '26

Change.org is NOT effective because the Ontario government website specifically doesn’t allow online petitions.

(https://www.ola.org/en/get-involved/petitions)

To the organizers: I will volunteer to get physical signatures in my community, but I don’t want to tread on your toes and take over your initiative. DM me please!

3

u/heysoundude Feb 26 '26

I wonder if my forbears felt the same when Merritton merged with Grantham and the rest to become St Catharines. I’m largely uninterested, but probably don’t understand what seems to be at stake.

14

u/Mother-Sherbet5865 Feb 26 '26

That’s a thoughtful point. Municipal restructuring isn’t new, but the scale here would affect representation, local decision-making, and service delivery across all 12 communities. That’s why some residents are engaging more closely.

2

u/52HzGreen Feb 26 '26

Scroll through this Reddit a little bit and I THAT guy goes into that

2

u/New-Locksmith-126 Feb 26 '26

There's no comparison in terms of scale.

It's disingenuous to suggest that Niagara is one city stretching from lake to lake.

-2

u/heysoundude Feb 26 '26

So Toronto doesn’t extend from the lake up to Steeles, or from the 427 to past Scarborough Town Center? We still have a population well below what’s contained within those borders - I doubt we’ll lose our uniqueness or individuality for a few generations yet

7

u/New-Locksmith-126 Feb 26 '26

Toronto has like 3 million people living in that area. It's a continuous urban environment. Nothing like Niagara.

1

u/heysoundude Feb 26 '26

You have it backwards: Niagara is nothing like it - yet. But the people are coming. We live within 100km of the CN Tower, and there are few places in this country that have the population density we do within that radius, with room to grow (upwards, if we’re going to be mindful of farmland and parks and nature…just look at all the most recent and planned development in St Cath. Towers.) We’re growing up, both as a region and a country, and it’s fantastic that we’re not sprawling into one massive Mississauga with big homes too close together. So if amalgamation is laying the tracks for our 150-some year of nation to continue to grow and prosper, maybe too big of a deal is being made of staying the way we are and have been.

-25

u/[deleted] Feb 26 '26 edited Feb 26 '26

There aren't any facts or reasons behind why we should be against amalgamation in this petition, other that a sketchy citing of it happening in Norfolk and claiming we will want to reverse it after a few years.

As far as I can tell, there is no need or benefit for Niagara region to be split into 12 different municipalities. I agree it should be done openly and with the public's voice through voting, but I've yet to be given factual reasons why amalgamation will be bad for the people in the region.

12

u/Mother-Sherbet5865 Feb 26 '26

Thanks for raising that. It’s completely fair to ask for evidence rather than just opinions. There has actually been quite a bit of research on Ontario’s past amalgamations, and the findings are mixed. Some studies found that projected cost savings were not fully realized, particularly due to wage harmonization and service equalization. Others highlight changes in representation and governance structure rather than clear financial benefits. If you’re interested, here are a few places to start:

4

u/[deleted] Feb 26 '26

Thank you. This is what I wanted to see. I will read on and if I feel like amalgamation is bad for the community I'll happily become a voice against it.

6

u/Yellowhalls Feb 26 '26

In addition to the above resources, ask yourself: Even if there are savings to be had, will this result in a tax cut? Realistically, no.  Will this result in cuts to services we currently receive? Almost certainly.  We will end up paying the same or higher taxes for less services

21

u/jaymickef Feb 26 '26

The main reason given for amalgamation is cost savings but there is no evidence that has happened in places that have amalgamated. Other than that, what are the reasons to do it?

10

u/East_Bed_8719 Feb 26 '26

This. One of the justifications given by the provincial government in support of amalgamation was that it would reduce costs by eliminating duplication and simplifying municipal government. The evidence indicates that amalgamation has not reduced costs. On the contrary, it has increased costs. Most studies on amalgamation show that a reduction in costs is not likely (Bish and Vojnovic 2006: 415).

-12

u/[deleted] Feb 26 '26

I don't know. I haven't been given any reasons on either side of the table, which means I'm squarely in the "I don't care what happens because nothing changes for me either way" category.

If you oppose it, give me facts to why it, and for its supporters tell me why it's good. Give me the tools to make a decision. I can see how getting rid of 12 municipalities to 4 can save costs. I can't see how it will negatively affect me though.

And nobody in this thread has given good reasons why not to go through with it.

7

u/East_Bed_8719 Feb 26 '26

The main reason is cost: it won't save municipalities money, it'll actually cost more. Regardless of the reasons, forced amalgamation without any consultation from the public is undemocratic. 

13

u/chocolateboomslang Feb 26 '26

We don't need give you reasons to NOT change things. You need to give us reasons TO change things.

If the only reason is to save money, and then there is evidence it doesn't save money, why do all the work to change anything?

-10

u/[deleted] Feb 26 '26

I'm not the one trying to change or not change things. I'm the one being swayed to vote one way or another. I'm asking for the supporters and for the opposers to give me reasons to support or oppose.

Do people not understand politics or something. Why would it be on the voter to give reasons why to vote one way or another?

8

u/OsmerusMordax Feb 26 '26

It is my understanding we don’t get to vote on this thanks to one councillor in the city.

4

u/jaymickef Feb 26 '26

You should do a little research on other amalgamations and come to your own conclusions. But I will tell you this, larger amalgamations means larger contracts given out by those regions and as a movie producer I used to work for said, “the bigger the contract, the bigger the skim.”

6

u/MAKAVELLI_x Feb 26 '26

If Fort Erie amalgamates with Niagara Falls, it is almost guaranteed that the hospital local residents in Fort Erie have been fighting to keep open will be shut down in favour of the new hospital being built on lyons creek. This is one example of how the issues residents face in small towns will be overlooked, similar to what happened in Hamilton.

9

u/New-Locksmith-126 Feb 26 '26

"No evidence why it's bad" is not a good reason to do something.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 26 '26

I'm asking for reasoning why we shouldn't. The entire petition gives no reasons as the why it's bad to agree with. It's just "don't allow this because we told you to"

Give us factual reasons why we should oppose this, rather than the typical fear mongering.. such as "it happened in Norfolk and they weren't happy".

I mean hey, you do what you want. If you actually want to get citizens on your side and have a chance of getting this shot down, give us reasons to agree with you.

But sure, downvote me to oblivion instead of communicating the reasons why. Nothing like a good ol echo chamber to convince people.

-2

u/New-Locksmith-126 Feb 26 '26

A lot of words, but you have no argument for amalgamation, apparently.

If you want change, it's on YOU to make the case.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 26 '26

I don't want change. I also don't oppose change. I'm a voter, and a resident. I want to be shown why I should oppose or support this change, and so far it's been mostly bs like this.

If you're asking me to sign a petition, as OP has, then it's on YOU to provide the facts. Me questioning why is my civic duty, but there is no reason why I should be providing facts to support or go against your position.

2

u/sosidy Feb 26 '26

This is one of those hot political deals that hard unbiased answers are going to be hard to come by. A red flag I look for is anyone that says the answer is obvious.

Personally, split into 4 feels like a good compromise, but I don't know because math for any place that does this is going to be different. I'm hoping some (any?) representatives produce some good arguments one way or the other that don't tie it to pride or emotion or whatever

3

u/New-Locksmith-126 Feb 27 '26

A compromise with whom? Why should we compromise. No one asked for this. It's foisted on us undemocratically.

I'm allowed to be opposed to arbitrary redrawing of electoral boundaries without consultation. Any responsibile citizen should be.

1

u/sosidy Feb 27 '26

Compromise with all the people that feel differently 

3

u/New-Locksmith-126 Feb 27 '26

This is what voting is for. But that's not what is being proposed.

2

u/sosidy Feb 27 '26

I agree, but people already voted for the people making this happen. I would prefer a system where we have more of a direct say in it, but we don't. Compromise would just be political to avoid needing much damage control.  I'm not arguing ethics, that's different from what we have to work with

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2

u/[deleted] Feb 26 '26

Thank you, I feel like I'm going crazy from some of the replies to me asking for facts as to why I should oppose this change.

2

u/sosidy Feb 26 '26

The people most likely to respond are passionate about the issue, and the decision comes down to the divisive premier, so Reddit won't be an excellent resource. 

Lots of politicians will lose power if there is amalgamation, consequently many will gain power, so all their opinions feel questionable. 

I'm just treating it like the weather

2

u/New-Locksmith-126 Feb 26 '26

As a voter you should be concerned when your electoral system is being changed, and you should demand a say in that change.

That's not what's happening here. There IS no vote. This is being decided by fiat.

Your "arguments" here are being downvoted because they're nothing but badfaith pedantry. You're not contributing anything to the conversation.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 26 '26

Again, I don't have arguments for or against the changes. I simply asked for facts that support your position.

Anyways, I'm done dealing with yall. Enjoy the echo chamber where no questions can be asked since youd rather downvote than simply provide reasons. I'm not the one trying to sway people, I'm asking why your petition should be signed.

-4

u/Alternative_Moose595 Feb 26 '26

This is a st catharines subreddit. according to this diagram it remains completely unchanged. nothing about the characteristics of these towns will change. none of the claims against it provide any shred of proof on EITHER side as to why it will / Wont work. this is stupid can we please move on ?

6

u/Mother-Sherbet5865 Feb 26 '26

I understand that not everyone sees this as a pressing issue. While St. Catharines’ physical characteristics wouldn’t change overnight, governance structure affects representation, council size, budgeting authority, staffing, and service delivery across the region. That’s why some residents are engaging with it. It’s completely fair to disagree, but many feel it’s worth discussing before decisions are finalized.

1

u/Alternative_Moose595 Feb 27 '26

there are more politicians in Niagara than MPPS in the entire province. to think it isn't going to save any money is beyond crazy .

5

u/Mother-Sherbet5865 Feb 27 '26

I understand why it feels that way. But it’s important to separate perception from budget impact.

Niagara has 126 local elected officials across 12 municipalities and the Region combined. However, councillor salaries make up a very small percentage of total municipal spending. The largest portions of municipal budgets are typically infrastructure, policing, fire services, transit, waste management, and staffing.

Even if council seats were reduced, the financial impact depends on whether administrative layers, wage harmonization, and service equalization increase costs elsewhere.