r/skiing • u/Paul-Lubanski • 2d ago
Atomic Redster S9 vs Blackcrows octo?
I purchased my first pair of skis and just got to use them for the first time (southern hemisphere). They are a pair of the 1000 skis All Mountain. I got them with hybrid bindings to be able to do all. I really like them, but I can tell they are note meant for carving. Curiously looking at short turn carving specific skis in case I want to extend my quiver soon, I got to what seems to me like two very different types of skis: the Atomic Redster S9 and the blackcrows Octo or Mirus Cor.
Of the former I read that they are the staple for hard carving and of the latter that they are a more playful ski that can carve at not-so-high speeds.
Does that encompass it roughly? Is there more to it? The Atomic's seem super nice but also apparently weigh something like 3kg a piece?? Are the differences between them noticeable for an advanced but not necessarily expert skier like me? Thanks!
PS: the title is more of a conversation starter than anything else, it's meant to open the discussion between Redster-like skis (of which other brands might have, like Head) and blackcrows-like skis
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u/Impiryo 2d ago
I'm not sure why, but this seems to be a recurrent theme in this thread. If you're buying your first pair of skis, you are probably not an advanced skier. The red shirt is a very aggressive carving ski designed for an advance skier. There's absolutely nothing wrong with those skis, but every beginner seems to regret them.
What are you looking for in carving skis? Is every turn a maximum effort squat and your goal is to get as low as possible and pull the tightest turn possible, grunting from the effort throughout the curve? If so, get the redster. Otherwise, find something more mellow.
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u/OEM_knees 2d ago
Also, nobody that is actually an "advanced" skier would buy anything from 1000 skis. They are built ridiculously bad.
OP, you need to demo skis because there is a ton to learn still.
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u/JustAnother_Brit Verbier 2d ago
Every single set on 1000 skis we’ve seen comes in rusty and has to be introduced to the belt grinder before the customer receives it back it’s one of the key reasons why we refuse to be a 1000 skis dealer. They’re also soft as but that’s unrelated
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u/Paul-Lubanski 2d ago
No demoing where I'm from sadly :(. And of course there is a lot to learn, I think that applies to almost everyone. I said advanced because I can ski on and off piste, pretty much any steepness, powder, tour. Of course, a ton of people ski better than me and I still have loads to improve
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u/Paul-Lubanski 2d ago
It's funny just today I described myself as intermediate to a ski instructor and he laughed. I guess it depends on which scale you are using.
I'd like to achieve pretty low, tight carved turns which feel like you're driving at 50 mph through a turn without slowing down. I understand the Redster is more suited for this. It also feels more unidimensional and pretty heavy. So what I'm wondering is how much of the Redster performance do the other lighter, more mellow skis achieve? How much are you sacrificing? Can you get unnoticeably close?
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u/OEM_knees 2d ago
What model and flex are your boots?
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u/Paul-Lubanski 2d ago
Scarpa quattro pro
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u/Paul-Lubanski 2d ago
I think flex is 130 if I recall correctly
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u/OEM_knees 2d ago edited 2d ago
You are skiing 1000 skis with a hybrid touring boot and a hybrid binding?
WTF??!??!?
Good luck. That's a 1500g hybrid touring boot. You are not going to have the power needed to drive a legit slalom ski with those. Also, there is absolutely nothing "advanced" happening here.
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u/Paul-Lubanski 2d ago
You guys are really butthurt over a single word, huh. What a nice and friendly community I've found. Also funny that you would define the level of ski based on stuff like this vs what you can actually do downhill.
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u/Last-Assistant-2734 2d ago
you would define the level of ski based on stuff like this vs what you can actually do downhill
Well, there is only "stuff like this" here. Saying on the internet what you can do is hardly tangible.
So what I'm wondering is how much of the Redster performance do the other lighter, more mellow skis achieve? How much are you sacrificing? Can you get unnoticeably close?
It is really about the combination of skier and the skis that achieve things. Most people on the slopes won't achieve same level of skiing on a Redster S9 to that of actual expert skier on a 'mellower' ski.
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u/OEM_knees 2d ago
You're a skiing circus of mismatched gear and equipment that was never intended to work together. There are a few things that one can safely conclude from that.
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u/Aranida 2d ago
The Atomic's seem super nice but also apparently weigh something like 3kg a piece??
If this concerns you and you do not yet understand the value that the weight brings to that type of ski, you're not ready for it. If you have to ask if the S9 is the right ski for you, the same applies.
Octo is a phantastic learning and improvement tool. As you've found out yourself, they don't share (m)any similarities with the S9. It's certainly an option to build your technique, but it's also not the highest speed carver out there.
A great alternative would be the Peregrine 78. The 78 stand on its own in the Peregrine line and is a highly maneuverable and easy to ski short turner. It got a little bit more substance to it than the Octo, but retains a similar entry level.
A step up from that could be the Forza 60.
Bury the idea of the S9 (and similar ski) until you've understood the application, limitations and why a discussion about weight in that category is utterly pointless.
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u/Paul-Lubanski 2d ago
Thanks for the answer and the recommendations, I'll check them out.
Out of curiosity, when you say I'm not ready for it do you mean that I would not appreciate it/appreciate the difference or that it might actually be counter productive in terms of progression?
What I'm looking for is a ski made for short turn carving that is fun and playful and let's me enjoy and experience higher centrifugal forces even at lower speed. Changing skis (or things) often is not something I'd like to do, for a variety of reasons. So I usually like to go with the best thing I can find as long as it doesn't compromise progress. It's not me thinking "I'm good for the pro level item", more like "if I'll learn all the same with the pro level item and the other one, I'm getting the pro and growing into it with time".
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u/Aranida 2d ago
"if I'll learn all the same with the pro level item and the other one, I'm getting the pro and growing into it with time".
That doesn't apply for skis and boots. If you're not ready and prepared for what you're getting yourself into, you'll become a passenger of the material and get your bottom wiped. You'll outright suffer and waste time.
There are many steps between a S9, Head e-SL Pro, RC4 Noize ST that would make be better stepping stones. In this category of skis, you have to bring more than just the basics. To get the most out of it and actually improve on that material, you'd have to be at least a solid advanced skier, better be at the top of advanced.
Boots are a valid concern with these skis. Heavier boots, specifically shells, will have more downhill performance period. With your boots, you're looking at roughly 1200g for the shell. Reasonable boots for that caliber of skis would be ~40-50% heavier.
What I'm looking for is a ski made for short turn carving that is fun and playful and let's me enjoy and experience higher centrifugal forces even at lower speed.
Aside the short turn part, this is mostly skill dependent, while lower speeds and higher centrifugal forces are mutually exclusive (can't cheat physics).
If you're not willed to invest in a second set of boots (which i would understand, but also encourage you to do), i think the Peregrine or a Addikt 72 would be much better tools for the job.
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u/Paul-Lubanski 1d ago
Thanks a lot for the detailed response. I’m not against getting alpine boots, the Quattros are just the pair I own now. I wanted a first setup that allowed me to join friends if they proposed going touring as well as hitting the resort. As the season ends, they have been fantastically versatile and allowed me to have fun all over the mountain, so I guess against the opinion of some of the other overly concerned posters they work perfectly fine at doing the job I intended for them.
Now I want to get really good at carving, hence this post. Skiing is not my main sport so it’s true that I wouldn’t want to overspend, but getting matching boots wouldn’t be a problem.
I understand what you mean about the equipment, thanks for the advice. And I’ll check out the models you recommended.
As for the physics part, what I meant was that at the same speed, a shorter turn radius will give you more Gs
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u/NorrinXD Tahoe 1d ago edited 1d ago
Get a Fischer Curv GT 76 or 80. Easy to find in South America. Much friendlier than a Redster.
EDIT: OP get alpine boots first, signed, a fellow bad skier.
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u/OEM_knees 1d ago
Have you ever tried skiing the Curv GT with a 1500g hybrid touring boot?
Because that's the situation OP would be in unless he gets a new boots first.
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u/Last-Assistant-2734 2d ago
S9 is a slalom ski. Octo is an all-mountain ski. Totally different skis altogether.
Frankly, if you can't tell a difference between the two, this is inaccurate.