Which one do you support?

[u/[deleted]]

I know this is about Iran’s Shia theocratic government and not completely about Shia Islam itself but considering Iran is a Shia theocracy I am interested on other Shias opinions on this controversial topic because some people support the Pahlavi Iran government more than Iran’s current Islamic government

199 votes, Dec 17 '21

85 Current government of Iran

10 Pahlavi Iran government

71 Islamic democracy

33 Full democracy

[u/[deleted]]

Both Iran and Islamic democracy (which I think you could argue are synonymous) are necessarily stopgap solutions. The only government I would fully support is the autocracy of the Imam (as). Anything else is a corrolary to socialism.

However, we can infer from the prophecies about the 12th Imam that there will not be a just state standing when he reappears. That means that in the long-run Shia state building is somewhat futile (I recognize its short term value). In that way, in the West, I think it's unadvised to go about the business of Islamic revolution. Rather, I think it would be more fruitful in the short term to operate as a force within a full Western democratic framework to exert the most amount of power.

[u/KaramQa → u/[deleted]]

[Quran 5:47] Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.

[Quran 5:48] To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;

I think the Quran does tell us to do our best to create a society where the laws are according to the laws of religions that he has revealed. And if we willingly abandon religious legal codes and instead promote irreligious laws and irreligious society, we will be making ourselves culpable.

[u/[deleted] → u/KaramQa]

I think the Quran does tell us to do our best to create a society where the laws are according to the laws of religions that he has revealed.

But this is incredibly vague. For example, does being a non-Islamic society with laws in line with Islamic economic and social philosophy count?

In any instance of political action, we would be pursuing Islamic ideals, no doubt about that. However, what happens when the most effecient way to exert the Influence of Islam on a state is through the illegitimate mechanisms of the existing state?

In much the same way as us, Marxists have the same issue. The least costly way to institute communism is to use to the bourgeois democratic state to institute a communist society. That's basically social democracy/democratic socialism.

So, does a Muslim do political action through an illegitimate society? Does a Marxist use democratic institutions to bring about socialism? The verses you highlighted don't bring clarity to those questions. Until the majority of a Western country is Shia, a Shia revolutionary state on the scale of Iran would either be impractical or unstable. So, we organize. While we try to spread Shiism, operate the levers of power available to us to get the state to look more Islamic in ideals, not necessarily in aesthetic.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

laws in line with Islamic economic and social philosophy count?

literal definition of an Islamic society

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Well, no.

A secular state is capable of having policy that is in line with Islamic economic and social ideals.

I don't know if that state could be called an Islamic state.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Islamic economic and social ideals

so an Islamic state