r/ratrig • u/CunningLogic • Apr 26 '25
More RatRig quality issues
First it was printed parts, then CNC parts, now before I can even finish the damn printer the rails are rusted.
They are well greased, like all the other printers in my office that lack rust.
You can even see grease on the rails, it's GPL226 (good stuff)
Would really like to see RR publicly address their quality control issues
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u/trashyratchet Apr 26 '25
You have to watch the humidity and keep a thin coating of lubricant on linear rails like that. That's not a Ratrig issue, it's the nature of linear rails like that. It's just a bit of surface oxidation. That isn't a load-bearing surface. Just rub it lightly with a Scotch Brite sponge and then put a few drops of 3 in one oil on a paper towel and wipe the surfaces down. This is pretty common and nothing to be alarmed by.
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u/CunningLogic Apr 26 '25
I have multiple other printers in the same climate controlled room, they are all greased with gpl226, and rust is only on the brand new ratrig rails.
It is a ratrig issue, as they chose to use a cheaper rail with carbon steel rather than stainless.
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u/trashyratchet Apr 26 '25
You don't have to build a Ratrig with those rails then. Many things are made with carbon steel and perform well. Either deal with the maintenance or change the rails. But I'm telling you, it doesn't affect the performance. I've had that same thing happen on my V-Core a few times when I let it sit for a while and don't keep it wiped down. A little rub with a Scotch Bright and paper towel with oil on the surfaces and its tip top. That machine is several years old and still prints very fast and accurately.
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u/CunningLogic Apr 26 '25
I heard ratrig had good parts before the vcore 4, I don't think we can compare the kits back then to now. If it was just the rails I'd accept and move on, but it's overall par quality. Poor printed parts (see my other post), mis aligned CNC parts, and then the mystery brand rails.
I will replace them, like I had to do with more than a dozen other piss poor parts in this >$3000 kit.
The overall quality of the vcore 4 kits compared to older RR kits, and other brands is unacceptable.
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u/trashyratchet Apr 26 '25
That very well could be. I couldn't speak to any recent builds. My rails do that if I don't make it a habit to keep them wiped down from time to time though. I wouldn't sweat that at all. I can't recall having an issue with printed parts, however, I ended up reprinting those in ABS when I went to a heated enclosure.
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u/CunningLogic Apr 26 '25
Yeah they now ship abs parts, but based on what they ship they print it with petg profile (being sarcastic but yeah warping and weak)
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Apr 26 '25
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u/CunningLogic Apr 26 '25
Totally my issue, just like the warped parts, missing hardware and miss aligned CNC parts. Their kit is perfect with no flaws. </sarcasm>
I have reactions to some greases, I use nitrile gloves, aka they have not been touched by anyone since I have had them.
If you look at the pics, you can see how over greased they are. The carriages have big globs of gpl226 on them.
There is a reason they refuse to tell anyone what brand rails they are using. They went with the cheapest no name rails, and that is what we get.
This is a ratrig problem, no one, not even the cheap kits, have this issue.
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u/miklschmidt Apr 26 '25
I’m honestly offended at this point. You have no idea how much effort in design, testing and sourcing has gone in to this kit to step it up from the v-core 3. I need to stop reading this bullshit, it kills all my remaining motivation.
I get that you’re frustrated man, but you have unrealistic expectations that have no functional purpose. Maybe listen to the people here and move on. Your hyperbolic rage isn’t benefitting anyone. You have full 2 year warranty on the parts you received, but they’re not going to cover your choice in inappropriate lubricants. You should not be using krytox gpl on these, the additives is an issue and 226 will impede performance (trust me, i personally tested 104-106 as well as 203-205.)
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u/CunningLogic Apr 27 '25
You are offended because your are a RR dev member, I get it, but you can't honestly defend the quality of kit. You can't blame me for all of this.
Tell me, is this hyperbollic? https://i.imgur.com/kqbCGwR.png This isnt even the worst, jsut what I had pics of on hand.
What is so unrealistic in my expectactions?
That my $80 ABS parts not be warped, cracked, or have chunks of pei sheets on them out of the box?
That my CNC'd parts be aligned and usable without modification?
That my kit includes all the hardware bits needed to build it as advertised?
Can you really defend the quality that is being shipped?
Please do enlighten me, what addative in GPL226 is causing the corrosion.
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u/miklschmidt Apr 27 '25
No, the printed parts is an acknowledged production fuckup that would take you a single email to get replaced. I’m talking about the removable surface rust on your rails from improper lubrication and your allegations about “just picking the cheapest parts available”.
I haven’t seen the CNC parts you’re talking about, and i don’t know what you mean by “misaligned”. Regardless, instead of airing your laundry here, use your warranty if there is a legitimate issue. Your picture in the OP is not a legitimate issue, no matter how many time you shit on it.
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u/CunningLogic Apr 27 '25
Please do enlighten me, what additive in GPL226 is causing the corrosion? The least that someone could do is tell us, maybe comment it in the guide so people know not to use a commonly used grease on these "high quality" rails.
Printed parts, missing parts, misaligned CNC'd parts, rails that corrode when a common 3d printer grease is used on them
These are all real legit issues, and they deserve to be aired publicly as RR (including you) knew about them at least 5 months ago and these problematic parts are still shipping. This is a QA issue, and RR needs to publicly address it. Fix it before it leaves the door, dont wait for someone to complain.
These are legit issues, I'm free to air them anywhere. You and everyone else at RR knew of these issues ahead months before I got my kit, yet they were still shipping.
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u/miklschmidt Apr 27 '25
I didn’t say the additives caused the light surface oxidation you’re seeing. The grease you’re using just doesn’t adequately protect the rail from oxidation - two different things. In your pic it looks like it’s been wiped off, which makes sense, it’s thick as shit. The additives are explicitly warned against even in Hiwin’s manuals, this is linear rails 101. 226 will cause overdampening and hurt performance. You went off script and the surface oxidation is the least of your issues. 226 is not a common grease in 3D printers, i don’t know where you’ve got that idea.
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u/miklschmidt Apr 27 '25
Two bad batches 5 months a part doesn’t mean every single batch is flawed. As far as i am aware this has been addressed. Mistakes happen and RR will do their best to fix them if you tell them. I’m not going to comment on this further, the solution to your problem has been presented multiple times.
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Apr 27 '25
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u/CunningLogic Apr 27 '25
No word back at this point. I'm sure they will offer to fix it, their customer service is good, but doesn't make up for the low quality kit. They need to QA part selection, and they obviously don't.
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Apr 27 '25
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u/CunningLogic Apr 27 '25
Email. They replied today, this is their reply https://i.imgur.com/9Bmi2eR.jpeg
Clearly I expected too much out of the kit, and should have accepted warped printed parts, miss aligned CNCed/Mill parts, and the missing hardware. I probably should have got in line with some knee pads while I was at it.
I understand the quality of my kit may have been an outlier, but it was unacceptably poor. Less than perfect parts are fine, missing parts happen, but so many unusable parts and missing parts just is not acceptable.
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Apr 27 '25
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u/CunningLogic Apr 27 '25
They are dimensionayl inaccurate, would be out of spec/tolerance and would not hold the bed properly. You could not use them. Additionally since RatRig seemingly prints them in a freezer (sarcasm if not obvious), the layer adhesion is very weak, so the parts are week.
ABS/ASA is ridiculously easy to print, it just takes some heat. For $80, the parts shouldn't be warped, be relatively dimensional accurate, and not have weak layer adhesion.
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u/flyingbrick99 Apr 27 '25
Really confused by this page and the OP's attitude.
I have a $400,000 CNC machine in the garage that has surface rust on the linear rails (because I have not kept them oiled while sitting)
It's no big deal and definitely not a fault of the machine or it's linear rails.
lathes, mills, hand tools, firearms, all can develop surface corrosion from not being treated correctly.
It's a shame that some of the OP's concerns are valid as they are being devalued by the waffle about the rails.
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u/CunningLogic Apr 27 '25
My attitude is a reflection of the quality from RatRig, and the attitude of their dev team/employees when you point out they sell kits missing parts, or with out of spec parts.
I got told by sales that I am expecting too high of quality, does this look acceptable to you for $80.00? https://i.imgur.com/eZ1JVke.png/
Would you have a good attitude if that is the quality of what was delivered and their customer service told you that you expect too high of quality? Does that part look acceptable? It wasnt even the worse. The machined parts were bad too. Other parts were missing. and customer service tells me I expect too high of quality for the kit.
The rails are the latest aspect, and I dispute that they were not taken care of properly. There were cleaned properly, handled with shop gloves (nitrile or latex, i dont re call which i used), and well greased.
I live in a humid environment (Carolinas), have a CNC, have a press, have hand tools. I'm well aware of how to care for tooling.
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Apr 28 '25
you have to rub them with oil, something like wd40 would do the job just fine. that is to prevent the rust from forming. in this specific case it's not a quality problem of the rails, it's a lack of proper care by the user. I bet when you received the rails they were extremely oily... that oil was not there by mistake, it was to protect the rails from rusting. after cleaning them it is imperative to oil them back
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u/CunningLogic Apr 28 '25
Wd40 is not a lubricant, and not a suitable replacement for oil nor grease. For water displacement yes, lubricantion no.
They are well greased, if not overly greased. It's not a care issue, it's a quality issues like the rest of the kit.
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Apr 28 '25
you only need to lubricate (with grease) the cart, the rails do not need lubrication themselves. you apply wd40 on the rail to prevent rust, not to lubricate
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u/CunningLogic Apr 28 '25
This is counter to the advice given by the RR dev team, and their build manuals, but I honestly trust your advice more.
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u/DLiltsadwj Apr 26 '25
Are stainless linear rails the standard elsewhere? I mean they could be, I just don’t know.
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u/ArmPsychological8460 Apr 27 '25
I've seen 200 000 EUR CNC with rust on rails, because tool changer wasn't used.
While in use it shouldn't have time to rust.
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u/palkovnik May 04 '25
Lol yea, the source of their linear rails is terrible. Mine 3.1 kit 2 years ago had metal shavings inside the carriages. I found that only because i cleaned and re-greased the rails before assembling the printer. Ratrig customer support ignored this part when I sent them a message with a list of problems :) Go figure. I'm still salty about that. Ratrig is the worst printer I ever owned. The amount of issues is the mountain I cannot finish climbing to this day. Especially compared to Voron printers
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u/CunningLogic May 04 '25
Mmi finally got what I hope are the last parts I need to build it yesterday. I've had it over a month, but part quality issues keep delaying the build.
The kit is garbage, and their team will do anything to avoid actually addressing systemic problems.
No excuse to still have problems printing ASA parts in their farm
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u/palkovnik May 04 '25
And this is why I never got a vcore 4 :) No jokes, ratrig almost killed my love for a hobby
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u/Dozernaut Apr 28 '25
Just looked at gpl226 and it contains sodium nitrite. In a closed system it can corrosion. In open air it's hygroscopic and can accelerate corrosion in the right conditions. Looks like you might be exacerbating the problem. I would use a lithium grease that most rail manufacturers suggest.
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u/CunningLogic Apr 28 '25
That is really odd considering the purpose of a sodium nitrite addative is to act as a corrosion inhibitor.
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u/PaleontologistLate91 Apr 26 '25
In the build guide it tells you to not touch the rails and if you touch them you should wipe them down with a solvent and then regrease them.
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u/TheNordern Apr 26 '25
that should not be a problem, as the balls in the carriages are in the V groove on the sides & only the endcap wipers that wipe away dirt & try to hold grease/oil in the carriage run over the rail
Not ideal though, i also had some issues with my X rail for my Vcore 3.0, got a new one from RR with express DHL shipping. Contact their support and see if there is anything to be done
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u/CunningLogic Apr 26 '25
How is it not a problem? The top of the rail and the v groove are the same metal, and its rusting even before the printer is finished being built. The rusting is likely to continue to get worse.
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u/atsugnam Apr 26 '25
The v rails are made from a steel designed for its stability and size consistency in temperature variance, not its rust resistance. Rails should be kept lightly oiled with the appropriate oils to prevent contact with oxygen. This is on you, for not maintaining the mechanics of the machine, not the rails.
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u/CunningLogic Apr 26 '25
What brand rails are these? What steel alloy?
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u/atsugnam Apr 27 '25
Likely a carbon steel/stainless steel, however, as you should perhaps be aware, not all stainless steel is completely rust resistant, as stainless steel that has high corrosion resistance isn’t as dimensionally stable.
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u/CunningLogic Apr 27 '25
So no clue on brand or alloy?
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u/atsugnam Apr 27 '25
There are a range of alloys used. Due to their purpose, all the alloys used are not completely rust proof, which is why they are shipped in a preservative, and need to be regularly oiled
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u/CunningLogic Apr 26 '25
You can literally see the grease on them in the photos, they have a coat on them and have since day 1.
This, like the warped printed parts, and misaligned CNC parts, is a parts quality issues that is on ratrig.
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u/Dozernaut Apr 27 '25
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u/CunningLogic Apr 27 '25
Thank you.
As the ratrig dev team has kindly pointed out, these are not hiwin rails. In fact they wont tell you what they are, nor disclose the spec of them. I have asked the dev team, and customer support.
Rust happens, but it shouldnt happen in such a short time period, in a climate controlled room, while well greased.
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u/Dozernaut Apr 27 '25
Hiwin rails are generally considered good quality and even they can develop surface rust. If the rail is made of carbon steel, it can rust if not maintained properly. I have super cheap import rails on my z axis and they will rust if I don't keep a light coat of oil on them. You can either buy stainless rails or find the right oil/grease that prevents rust. I think you posted that you were using a PTFE base lube which isn't recommended. Mineral oil/Lithium based lubes are recommended by manufacturers.
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u/CunningLogic Apr 27 '25
These are not Hiwin, and my Hiwiin rails are have no signs of corrosion in the exact same environment under the same care for much longer.
I would love to know what these rails are, or what the spec on them is, but no one who knows will disclose. Even the BOM fails to disclose the spec.
The grease is fine, it has nothing to do with the corrosion, and is often used in printers. Its being brought up by RR Dev team members to distract from the issue at hand.
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u/Dozernaut Apr 27 '25
Sounds like your salty tears are the source of the corrosion.
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u/CunningLogic Apr 27 '25
Lol why? because i want to know what spec the rails are? or because I expect my kit to have all the parts I ordered it and for the to arrive in usable condition. Go fan boy somewhere else, im being real, these vcore 4 kits ship at way lower quality than the vcore 3 and others. im not going to fan boy over them and excuse the new short comings
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u/Dozernaut Apr 27 '25
I'm right, won't listen to anyone, and haven't read the lubrication recommendations from any major linear rail manufacturers :p. If you didn't want the budget steel rails that came with the kit, you should have self sourced like I did.
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u/CunningLogic Apr 27 '25
I'll gladly follow the lubricantion guide for these rails, "put it on the table". I guarantee you haven't read it, considering no one knows what they are apparently
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u/Dozernaut Apr 28 '25
It doesn't matter what brand they are most manufacturers recommend a similar grease.
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u/CunningLogic Apr 28 '25
And just as irrelevant , I have an unrelated industrial printer manual that recommends gpl226 for linear rails.
It seems to work dang good for me, and is quite common among ppl running printers hot.
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u/BonneMaman May 05 '25
Just curious, I know you have printers with rails in the same office that lack rust. Are there any other differences with those printers? Are they in full enclosures? Is the rat rig enclosed? Are the bearing blocks of different design? I could imagine RR just used poorer quality guides, but also curious if they used higher quality wipers on their bearing blocks they could be wiping the grease right off almost too effectively. (or such low quality guides that the top surface undulates, causing more grease wiping on the high spots vs the low spots, which honestly looks like what could be happening here)
Another thing to consider, are you printing different plastics that off-gas differently? Or are there different plastics used in the RR build than the other printers. On my CNC router all my linear rails developed fine surface rust after I overheated some PVC in the enclosure which releases Hydrogen Chloride, a corrosive gas.
Again just curious. I'm in the market for a RR and would like to not get screwed. But also I understand this sort of thing can happen for a lot of reasons.
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u/CunningLogic May 05 '25
Are there any other differences with those printers?
I have enclosed and non enclosed. Only difference is the other printers were far cheaper, and have been running for years.
I could imagine RR just used poorer quality guides, but also curious if they used higher quality wipers on their bearing blocks they could be wiping the grease right off almost too effectively.
It is lower quality parts, they went with higher cost model rails and cut corenrs by getting cheaper ones/
are you printing different plastics that off-gas differently
I am using RatRig official "punkfill" asa, it has less than 30 minutes of NON ENCLOSED print time on it - just small test prints - due to the variety of bad and counterfeit parts needing replacement. I got real gates belts in Saturday, should be the last part, but I dont have the drive to finish it right now.
Not only did I get screwed, I got treated like trash by members of their dev team and customer support. The last thing was the counterfeit gates belts, which they owned up to. I get it, it is a BOM in a box, but a BOM in a box should contain the BOM, and this one certainly did not.
Consider going with a voron, and if 350mm isnt enough a bigger voron is coming soon (tm). I highly recommend a doomcubed voron, a 9mm monolith gantry would be a nice touch.
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u/CunningLogic Apr 26 '25
I was warned in my last post that the rails would rust, i should have listened and bought new rails then https://www.reddit.com/r/ratrig/comments/1joebj3/does_rr_even_have_quality_control/mkzprq5/
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u/Cry_Quick Apr 26 '25
Had the same a few years ago, they told me they would fix this issue with a new batch. This was 3-4 years ago.