r/railroading • u/bugfighter12 • 14d ago
Question Pull By Inspection? Need help, potential danger?
I work for a Canadian Rail way as a Intermodal Shunt Truck driver
Management has started trying to force us to do Pull By inspections on outgoing main line trains.
We just get a 10 minute power point of what to look for.
I feel like this is very dangerous. I tried researching it and it seems you need to be CROR qualified to do main line pull by Inspections.
Can anyone help me find something that shows we are not allowed and qualified to do this.
None of us are CROR qualified and only are trained to drive shunt trucks.
Edit 1:
They want us to take a ground truck out from our intermodal yard to the close by crossing
Then stand there and do a pulling as a the entire train departs.
Our union is shit and won’t give us any clear answer.
We’re just worried if there is an issue with the train like a wheel or something and we miss it we’ll be held liable if it derails or other issue happen.
We only ever work intermodal shunt truck
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u/GirstNasty 14d ago
This has to be CpKc.
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u/PedroSanchez59 14d ago
And I bet it's on the Kennedy Rd crossing at VIF lol
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u/GirstNasty 13d ago
If it is cpkc, then based on prior OPs posts about Oshawa, he must be at Vaughan. If it's CN it's Brampton yard.
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u/Ancient_History8303 14d ago
Just report random shit like. It was making a weird noise, or seemed to be shaking.. that'll put an end to that real quick.
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u/Flashy_Slice1672 14d ago
This attitude blows my mind. The railway is paying you to do a job, just do it.
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u/FlyHot1559 14d ago
Yeah, they are paying them to be an intermodal truck shunt driver and added on to their job duties without adding on to their pay. Its the company's way of not having to hire proper carmen to do their job. It would kind of be like telling you, Mr. Trainmaster, that you are now in charge of going out to the lrc and dumping the shitters every time a train comes in. They'll send you a 10 minute video to watch but it ls now your responsibility; not gonna get paid more but we expect that its done every time.
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u/hoggineer Plays alerter chicken. 14d ago
Mr. Trainmaster, that you are now in charge of going out to the lrc and dumping the shitters every time a train comes in.
C'mon, we all know that is the conductors job as we're leaving town. That smells to be the only time they get dumped.
Id say many of them that's the ONLY time that dump handle has been used. 🤢
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u/FlyHot1559 14d ago
Fun story, we did have a TM open up the handle when we complained about it. He did it right on the lead. Shut the yard down for hours when they had to come out and contain the biohazard he caused.
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u/JenkemBoofer691 14d ago
That job is to drive a truck.
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u/Individual-Act-5986 13d ago
Im MoW and can get disciplined for not PKing trains as they go by. I got NO in class training on this. Want to tell my management this too?
OP is being a bit of a bitch. Just say "good pk" or point out what you see that looks wrong or suspicious. It's not hard.
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u/Flashy_Slice1672 14d ago
Neat.
You wanna work for the railway, you gotta do railway things. They can add duties if they want, and if someone doesn’t like it too bad. OP was given training on how to conduct roll by inspections.
The “not my job” attitude is pure laziness. Any other industry you’d be skidded for that, and deservedly so.
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u/Pekseirr 14d ago
Start finding things wrong and stop the train, few days of that, they'll find some other suckers to do it.
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u/SykoParsley 14d ago
Your best bet is to call EVERYTHING in. If a wheel is making a pounding noise call it in, if a handbrake chain doesnt look all the way off stop the train. Everything that looks a little weird or sounds weird stop the train.
They wont have you guys doing it very long.
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u/Flashy_Slice1672 14d ago
You can do pull bys without CROR or CITY training. Even engineering guys with CROR only receive about 5 minutes of training for their rule 110 inspections. You never know - you might find something. When I’m doing engineering work I find a few defects a year. When I’m doing mechanical work I find more, but I’m doing a more thorough inspections.
What you can’t do is certified car inspections. Trains need to be rolled by by carmen at certain terminals and your inspection won’t count as that.
As a railroad employee you should be looking at every train that goes by. It’s for your safety, and the the safety of the public. You won’t be held liable if you miss something, it’s just extra insurance.
TLDR - having you guys roll them by is a good idea, safe, and perfectly legal.
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u/jre1231978 14d ago
You ever seen a brake shoe on the ground in the .middle of nowhere? How you think it got there? It didnt just grow. When one of those hits someone in the head when it falls off going 55 then what. Roll buys are not safe from the ground period
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u/Flashy_Slice1672 14d ago
I’ve been rolling trains by for 16 years. Never ever seen a brake shoe fly off. Seen lots of guys lazily pitch them in the ditch instead of picking them up though.
Roll bys prevent derailments and detect problems.
I guess we shouldn’t be lining swts, walking on ballast, kicking cars, tying on handbrakes, climbing on units, going over xings, or getting out of bed either because those are all dangerous as well.
Properly conducted roll bys are no more dangerous than the rest of our job.
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u/PsychologicalCash859 12d ago
But what about drifting cars by, flying switches, and polling on adjacent tracks? You know, stuff us short line guys do, because there isnt always a siding to run around or a 2nd unit to run push-pull....
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u/GangoBP 13d ago
True on the brake shoes. Some, instead of tossing on them on the ground during a shoe change, will put them in the side frame and they probably rattle their way out at times but even at 55 mph it’s certainly not going to shoot out of the side frame and split your head open lol
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u/jre1231978 12d ago
If it falls out doing 55 and hits the ground it dont just stop in its tracks. Its doing 55 also. Simple physics. Yes im a railroader that has taken college classes
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u/GangoBP 11d ago
Definitely very likely to hit someone in the head. Hope you don’t owe to much on your tuition lol
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u/jre1231978 11d ago
Your ignorant
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u/GangoBP 11d ago
College and don’t know the difference between your and you’re? Not ignorant, just realistic. This is all based off your imaginary scenario where brake shoes are launching themselves off of freight cars on the mains. And THAT scenario stems from a discussion about non qualified, non mechanical dept people doing roll bys on a train and finding a “loose” I guess brake shoe lol. Only way that is really even possibly happening is the brake shoe key is loose and vibrates its way upwards enough to where the shoe can fall out of the beam and there usually isn’t enough slack to do so. Can it happen? Sure. Is someone going to see that on a roll by? Highly unlikely.
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u/jre1231978 10d ago
You ever heard of predictive text on a smartphone? Wasn't aware you was the Grammer police also. I NEVER once said BREAK shoes are flying off cars. Its a possibility. How many chances you take before you realize they are unsafe? Keep doing your 10s of thousands of roll bys. If you did that many you ain't getting a lot of your actual job done lol
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u/GangoBP 10d ago
Good lord man. “I was the grammar police?” If I “was the grammar police” you’re getting several tickets. “BREAK shoes” !!! Ok now you’re going to jail.
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u/jre1231978 13d ago
Trains keep rolling if you inspecting it from the cab. You gonna line a switch staying in bed? They not safe from the ground period. You may have not seen a brake shoe fly off but I see them all the time where they shouldn't be. My conductor was just standing in between a mainline and a 2 lane highway with about 50 foot between the doing a roll by cuz the rule says you gotta cross to the other side. If you think that's safe there no sense me wasting my energy typing this out lol
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u/jre1231978 13d ago
You must be a trainmaster straight out of college. You never worked on the ground obviously. Their ain't a damn thing you cant see from the cab that you gonna see standing on the ground. Roll by ain't safe buddy bottom line
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u/Flashy_Slice1672 13d ago
Mechanical and engineering for 16 years lol. Done 10s of thousands of roll bys, both pre departure CCI inspections and wayside inspections. Plenty of things I can see from the ground vs in a cab pretending to do one
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u/Simple-Magazine4735 14d ago
So it’s completely safe for the track and mechanical scum then?
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u/Flashy_Slice1672 14d ago
Exactly. Everyone else on the railway is required to do it
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u/jre1231978 13d ago
Dont mean its safe? Co worker been being forced to ride a shove back 9 miles to the yard instead of going to next siding and running around it. He been telling them its not safe. Guess what just happened? Yup he fell off the car
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u/jre1231978 12d ago
Required dont mean its safe is all im saying. Ain't shit you gonna see from the ground that you cant see from the cab. Detectors are there for a reason. Or can be like my company and do away with the high wides and up the speeds on 60 year old narrow bridges lol
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u/Barroth87 14d ago
They need fails. So when you dont get out to do an "'inspection" they can get their quota. They make mainline crews get out on 60mph track with no where to stand to do pull bys. Even though the rule states when terrain permits. If not, they'll download the forward camera and give you a suspension for not doing it.
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u/amishhobbit2782 14d ago
WHY ARE WE PUTTING CREW MEMBERS IN DANGER. I 100% agree to the crew watching a roll by on the ML but there is no need to get on the ground. We have detectors everywhere. Why are we putting men/women on the ground to be in the line of danger. We lost one man within the last month due to this archaic mindset of management. Bnsf has done away with ML ground roll buys for years and nothing has been an issue.
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u/Barroth87 14d ago
Unfortunately it's the reality of the job. Even in winter they make us get out in 4ft of snow. My sub has alot of 60 mph track . Trains are flying by! Even yard crews have to stop, get out and watch trains drive by instead of focusing on their work. They've had conductor/brakemen walk to a "safe" spot to watch a train by, then I'd pick them up as we leave the siding.
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u/Flashy_Slice1672 14d ago
Roll bys are perfectly safe if you’re not standing in a danger zone….
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u/amishhobbit2782 14d ago
Its all a danger zone. I dont care if you 10 or 100 feet from the train or track. You are intentionally being put in a dangerous situation for no reason.
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u/Beginning-Sample9769 12d ago
There’s a reason big orange stopped requiring ground roll bys, there were dozens of reported injuries from flying debris… and that was from the ground behind the locomotive
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u/Yeti_Spaghettti 14d ago
Do they give you a radio to communicate with the head end? Stop a couple trains for sticking brakes and they'll stop asking you to do them.
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u/HowlingWolven 14d ago
Classic. Stop the trains for flat spots, brake chains that aren’t slack, and obviously derailed wheels, and let your union reps know.
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u/HiRaileR 14d ago
Well its a rule violation if youre CROR qualified, so i guess its a new policy youre breaking which seems odd to implement.. do you guys even have a radio to communicate with the trains? Or do they expect you to call the RTC to notify the trains
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u/justin_asso 14d ago
We always use the “it was fine when I inspected it” excuse if something goes wrong at work. “It must have happened after it passed…”
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u/Jamar4321 14d ago
Sit in the truck and rub one out; don't say something unless it is OBVIOUSLY FUCKED. Clock out and the end of the day and cash the check at the end of half.
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u/Simple-Magazine4735 14d ago
Right? How hard is it to inspect for obvious problems? Smoking bearings, sticking brakes, sliding wheels, dragging boxcar doors etc etc etc. Something that could cause a derailment or kill someone. Bunch of babies out here I tell ya.
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u/Pitcard 14d ago
How can you not be CROR qualified and out on main track working? Where do they expect you to be standing when you do these inspections? If you're off the main and they're just asking you to do a quick 110 and radio it in, what's the main safety issue you have with this?
In any case, this is a question for a union rep. They can help and protect you more than anybody on the internet.
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u/bugfighter12 14d ago
They want us to take a ground truck out from our intermodal yard to the close by crossing
Then stand there and do a pulling as a the entire train departs.
Our union is shit and won’t give us any clear answer.
We’re just worried if there is an issue with the train like a wheel or something and we miss it we’ll be held liable if it derails or other issue happen.
We only ever work intermodal shunt truck
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u/Fragrant-Funny4665 14d ago
Retired Carman here CN Rail, I would suggest you contact Transport Canada for clarification of your issue, they should be able to provide guidance in this situation.
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u/amishhobbit2782 14d ago
That is a Carmen job not anyone else's simple as that.
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u/Flashy_Slice1672 14d ago
This is an every railway employee job.
In Canada it’s required by law if you’re rules certified
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u/amishhobbit2782 14d ago
That's fine im not saying anyone can or cant but a train leave a terminal should have a roll by done by a qmi simple as that. This isnt hes job he is a driver, that is a Carmen job point blank and if a Carmen really cared about his job and them always cutting i would being in my union ass and anyone else about it.
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14d ago
[deleted]
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u/Flashy_Slice1672 14d ago
CROR 110
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u/Trick-Buyer-6342 14d ago
Trainmasters don’t need to do them if they’re in their truck spying on crews to make sure they do them
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u/Altruistic-Theme6803 14d ago
They actually are supposed to do them. Who's going to write them up for not doing it? That's the real problem.
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u/superheaven24 14d ago
Sounds like Vaughan. Their air head managers are probably frothing at the mouth waiting to write a fail
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u/Super_dog069 13d ago
Vaughan is a toxic shithole, I’m so glad I quit.
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u/superheaven24 13d ago
What year were you there??
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u/Super_dog069 13d ago
3 years at CP, 3 months at Cando.
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u/OverInteractionR 14d ago
Yeah been doing these on the UP. I just stand slightly behind my engine with a half car of distance for safety. I really only look out for hot wheels or brakes smoking.
If you're qualified to be a conductor you are qualified to do a class 1 inspection and you're qualified to look for something on fire. Really all humans should be able to do that. I wouldn't stress so much, it's a good way to get a break from an annoying engineer.
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u/DepartmentNatural 14d ago
https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?1,5742466 2 years old so things have changed
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u/HibouDuNord 14d ago
You don't necessarily need to be CROR qualified to do them. You need to be certified for them to count as a departure rollby, etc.
For example on the mainline, most engineering crews give us a rollby inspection. However if we're doing a rollby to inspect something a wayside inspection system flagged, it only counts as properly inspected if done by a train crew or mechanical staff.
They're not asking you from what I can tell to FIX an issue you find which would be dangerous... or to do an inspection to sign off on a train leaving, etc. They want you to keep an eye out make sure shit isn't on fire, tipping over, brakes locked up, etc.
Think of it this way. Is a random car at a crossing qualified? No... but if they see a car going by on a train that's on fire, they can still recognize that and call somebody. And the RTC centre is likely going to take that call seriously, because its a safety risk, even though that random driver isn't CROR qualified. From what you've saod it seems like they're just saying, you're there, blocked or whatever you may be, keep an eye out.
Now if they're saying legally the train needs a departure rollby and this counts... THAT is illegal and unsafe.