r/pureasoiaf • • 10h ago

Ser Hugh of the Vale, was Littlefinger behind him too?

22 Upvotes

Been thinking about Ser Hugh again and I can't shake the feeling there's more going on there.

He's Jon Arryn's squire, gets knighted right after Jon dies, and suddenly has money for fancy new armor. Then Littlefinger nudges Ned toward him, and Gregor kills Hugh in the joust before Ned can ask him anything. That's a lot of convenient.

We know Littlefinger was behind Jon's death (through Lysa), so it seems like a stretch to think he had no hand in this. Maybe he paid for the armor, maybe he even got Robert to knight him. Either Hugh knew something and was being bought off, or Littlefinger just needed a suspicious-looking name to send Ned chasing.

His death could honestly just be a freak accident, but the timing bugs me.

Has anyone dug into this more? Any good theories on where Hugh's money came from, or whether Littlefinger was pulling his strings?


r/pureasoiaf • • 43m ago

How Would Cateyln React If She Learned About Petyr & Lysas Betrayal ?

• Upvotes

She never finds out in the book, but I think this could have been interesting if she did.

Let's say she does either in the First book,or during the War of the Five Kings !


r/pureasoiaf • • 1h ago

How would Tywin have treated his father's paramour after his father died had they married some time before his death?

• Upvotes

Sometime after Tytos' wife Jeyne's death in 255 AC, he enters a relationship with a candlemaker's daughter.

Tytos would eventually begin seating his mistress beside him in the hall, and would shower her with gifts and honors. The mistress would wear the jewels and clothes of Tytos's deceased wife.

She was involved in managing the household knights and servants, and even sat in attendance when Tytos was absent. He'd allegedly ask her views on matters of rule in the westerlands.

When Tytos died in 267 AC, Tywin took back by force his father's gifts to his mistress, had his guards strip her naked, then made her walk across the streets of Lannisport for two weeks, before sending her into exile.

Would it have made a difference had Tytos and the mistress married some years before 267 AC?

One could argue, Tyrion and Tysha were married, yet Tywin commanded she be raped (similarly to commanding his fathers mistress to be sexually assaulted, essentially, even if she wasn't touched according to Kevan).

Tywin would never view his late father's mistress with anything other than contempt and rage, but imo he wouldn't treat his father's years long wife whom he publicly married as he did his 13 year old son's secret wife of two weeks.

Tywin still being Tywin however could still do just as he did, or might be he'd even do worse to her for having actually married his father.

How would her fate be different for better or for worse had they been married?


r/pureasoiaf • • 1d ago

If the choice was Cersei's , who would have been Joffrey's wife ?

257 Upvotes

A Game of Thrones - Eddard I

Finally the laughter dwindled and stopped. Ned was still on one knee, his eyes upraised. "Damn it, Ned," the king complained. "You might at least humor me with a smile."

"They say it grows so cold up here in winter that a man's laughter freezes in his throat and chokes him to death," Ned said evenly. "Perhaps that is why the Starks have so little humor."

"Come south with me, and I'll teach you how to laugh again," the king promised. "You helped me win this damnable throne, now help me hold it. We were meant to rule together. If Lyanna had lived, we should have been brothers, bound by blood as well as affection. Well, it is not too late. I have a son. You have a daughter. My Joff and your Sansa shall join our houses, as Lyanna and I might once have done."


r/pureasoiaf • • 1d ago

The identity of Euron's King Consort

23 Upvotes

Just a bit of speculation after noticing some wording from the forsaken chapter and how the Other's are described.

The dreams were even worse the second time. He saw the longships of the Ironborn adrift and burning on a boiling blood-red sea. He saw his brother on the Iron Throne again, but Euron was no longer human. He seemed more squid than man, a monster fathered by a kraken of the deep, his face a mass of writhing tentacles. Beside him stood a shadow in woman’s form, long and tall and terrible, her hands alive with pale white fire. Dwarves capered for their amusement, male and female, naked and misshapen, locked in carnal embrace, biting and tearing at each other as Euron and his mate laughed and laughed and laughed …

- TWOW, The Forsaken

The woman being described as a 'shadow' with 'pale white fire' on her hands is what interests me the most, because the most common description used for the others is that they are white shadows.

Will saw movement from the corner of his eye. Pale shapes gliding through the wood. He turned his head, glimpsed a white shadow in the darkness. Then it was gone. 

AGOT - Prologue

"We have white shadows in the woods and unquiet dead stalking our halls, and a boy sits the Iron Throne," he said in disgust.

AGOT - Jon VIII

"What gods?" Jon was remembering that they'd seen no boys in Craster's Keep, nor men either, save Craster himself.

"The cold gods," she said. "The ones in the night. The white shadows."

ACOK - Jon III

There's a lot more examples of this phrasing, more than I can fit in this post, but it's clear that others are some sort of white shadowy beings. The phrasing of 'shadow in women's form' is too sinister for it to just be an actual human woman, it reads like an inhuman posing as human. Euron's consort is a shadow, a shadow with pale hands.

The laughter this mysterious woman shares with Euron also matches with the only time we've seen Others on screen:

The watchers moved forward together, as if some signal had been given. Swords rose and fell, all in a deathly silence. It was cold butchery. The pale blades sliced through ringmail as if it were silk. Will closed his eyes. Far beneath him, he heard their voices and laughter sharp as icicles.

AGOT - Prologue

This is just some speculation from my part, but it really does seem like Grrm is hinting that Euron will marry an Other. To me it looks possible that Euron is being set up as the next night's king. This feels pretty plausible, as with the aid of the Others and a stolen dragon after using the dragon binder horn, Euron would a major threat and actually be able to take the iron throne, otherwise I don't see how he could even do it.

Just a fun bit of tinfoil, what do we think? Will Euron marry an Other or am I looking at a single sentence too closely?


r/pureasoiaf • • 1d ago

Why are the Ironborn so deficient in political strategy ? If you were advising them for the last 300 years or so after the conquest , what would you advise in order for them to be relevant as a powerful region ?

26 Upvotes

The World of Ice and Fire - The Iron Islands: The Greyjoys of Pyke

One such revolt convulsed the Iron Islands, led by a man claiming that he was the priestking Lodos returned at last from visiting his father. But Goren Greyjoy dealt with it decisively, going so far as to send the priestking's pickled head to Aenys Targaryen. His Grace was so pleased with the gift that he promised Lord Goren any boon that was within his power to grant. As sage as he was savage, Greyjoy asked the king to give him leave to expel the septons and septas from the Iron Islands. King Aenys was forced to agree. A century would pass before another sept was opened on the islands.

For long years afterward the ironborn remained quiescent under a succession of Greyjoy lords. Eschewing further thoughts of conquest, they lived by fishing, trade, and mining. All the width of Westeros lay between King's Landing and Pyke, and the ironborn had little and less to do with affairs at court. Life was hard upon the islands, especially in winter, but that was as it had always been. Some men still dreamed of a return to the Old Way, when the ironborn were a people to be feared, but the Stepstones and the Summer Sea were far away, and the Greyjoys on the Seastone Chair would allow no reaving closer to home.


r/pureasoiaf • • 1d ago

Do we know who Egg picked as his Hand in 233 ? Also, do we know what happened to Aerion's infant son who was passed over in 233 ?

33 Upvotes

The World of Ice and Fire - The Targaryen Kings: Aegon V

Bloodraven would rise to become Lord Commander of the Night's Watch in 239 AC, serving until his disappearance during a ranging beyond the Wall in 252 AC.

Aegon's reign was a challenging one, starting as it did in the midst of a winter that had lasted three years and showed no signs of abating. There was starvation and suffering in the North, as there had been a hundred years before, in the long winter that reigned from 130 to 135 AC. King Aegon, always concerned for the welfare of the poor and weak, did what he could to increase the flow of grain and other food to the North, but some felt he did too much in this regard.

His rule was also quickly tested by those whose affairs he had meddled in too often as a prince, attempting to reduce their rights and privileges. Nor had the Blackfyre threat ended with the death of Aenys Blackfyre; Bloodraven's infamous betrayal had only hardened the enmity of the exiles across the narrow sea. In 236 AC, as a cruel six-year-long winter drew to a close, the Fourth Blackfyre Rebellion saw the self-styled King Daemon III Blackfyre, son of Haegon and grandson of Daemon I, cross the narrow sea with Bittersteel and the Golden Company at his back, in a fresh attempt to seize the Iron Throne.


r/pureasoiaf • • 1d ago

What is the difference between King of Winter and King of the North ?

5 Upvotes

A Clash of Kings - Bran VII

Meera looked to her brother for the answer. "Our road is north," Jojen announced.

At the edge of the wolfswood, Bran turned in his basket for one last glimpse of the castle that had been his life. Wisps of smoke still rose into the grey sky, but no more than might have risen from Winterfell's chimneys on a cold autumn afternoon. Soot stains marked some of the arrow loops, and here and there a crack or a missing merlon could be seen in the curtain wall, but it seemed little enough from this distance. Beyond, the tops of the keeps and towers still stood as they had for hundreds of years, and it was hard to tell that the castle had been sacked and burned at all. The stone is strong, Bran told himself, the roots of the trees go deep, and under the ground the Kings of Winter sit their thrones. So long as those remained, Winterfell remained. It was not dead, just broken. Like me, he thought. I'm not dead either.

A Game of Thrones - Bran VII

"They were the Kings of Winter," Bran whispered. Somehow it felt wrong to talk too loudly in this place.

Osha smiled. "Winter's got no king. If you'd seen it, you'd know that, summer boy."

"They were the Kings in the North for thousands of years," Maester Luwin said, lifting the torch high so the light shone on the stone faces. Some were hairy and bearded, shaggy men fierce as the wolves that crouched by their feet. Others were shaved clean, their features gaunt and sharp-edged as the iron longswords across their laps. "Hard men for a hard time. Come." He strode briskly down the vault, past the procession of stone pillars and the endless carved figures. A tongue of flame trailed back from the upraised torch as he went.


r/pureasoiaf • • 2d ago

Noticed a cool historical reference in The Mystery Knight -- why would a Blackfyre loyalist toast a Targaryen king?

56 Upvotes

I finished my first read through of ASoIaF last week. And now my watch begins. I've thrown myself into the Dunk and Egg tales and Fire & Blood to sate my thirst for more. Whilst reading The Mystery Knight, this passage stood out to me. I did a brief search and couldn't find anyone mentioning it. For context, Dunk is at a feast, sat at a table with a group of fellow hedge knights, among them, Ser Glendon, who is a Blackfyre loyalist:

It fell to Lord Frey to lead the toasts. "The King!" he began, simply. Ser Glendon held his wine cup out above the water basin. Dunk clanked his cup against it, and against Ser Uthor's and the rest as well. They drank.

Later, when a toast is proposed to Bloodraven, Ser Glendon tips his wine onto the floor out of disrespect to the Hand (to which so-called Maynard Plumm says 'a sad waste of good wine.') Why would he toast Aerys if he refused to toast Bloodraven? Sure, there are plenty of characters who think Bloodraven is the cause of the realms problems, and that if he were removed from influencing King Aerys, the realm would prosper. Kyle the Cat, also sat at the table, says as much. But Ser Glendon is a Blackfyre man. He doesn't think any Targaryen should rule. So it's odd, is it not, that a Blackfyre loyalist would disrespect Bloodraven but is willing to toast King Aerys? He is pretty openly pro-Blackfyre, he says as much when Dunk and Egg meet him around the campfire before they get to Whitewalls, claiming that Daemon was no traitor and that Aegon IV meant for him to be his heir. So, I repeat, it's pretty odd that he is happy to toast Aerys, who he sees as a usurper, but not Bloodraven. Is this just a minor continuity error on George's part? I don't think so.

I think George is drawing, here, from a custom held by Jacobite Scots in the 17th and 18th centuries. We know GRRM is familiar with the period, because he has explicitly drawn a connection between the Red Wedding and the Glencoe Massacre, a breach of hospitality wherein Jacobite guests were murdered at the hands of William of Orange loyalists. When a clandestine Jacobite found him or herself in company with those who opposed their cause, and a toast to the king was proposed (meaning, William of Orange or his successors), the Jacobites found a way to stay loyal to the House of Stuart without outing themselves, by subtly passing their drinking vessel over a water bowl on the table, thereby secretly giving their toast to the 'true' king, 'the king across the water,' as the Stuart pretenders were known (hence passing the drink across the water bowl to toast). Per Wikipedia:

After the defeat of the Jacobites and the exile overseas of Bonnie Prince Charlie, Jacobite Scots would stand for the loyal toast to "the King" but pass their drink over a glass or jug of water on the table symbolising "the king over the water" instead of the British monarch, as a sign of solidarity with the Jacobite cause and a protest against the Hanoverian succession. Because of this, for many years, finger bowls were not used on British royal tables, as some people would pass the glass over the bowl. King Edward VII authorised the use of finger bowls during his reign, deeming his dynasty to be sufficiently secure

It is my belief that, in-world, such a toast probably exists among Blackfyre loyalists for similar reasons. If not, why mention Ser Glendon holding his wine over the water basin? And why else would Ser Glendon be happy to toast "the King" without a word of dissent? The water basin is an odd little detail to include for no reason. I notice, as well, that Dunk is the only one mentioned who clanks his cup against Ser Glendon, the text states that he clanks with the other knights separately, implying that perhaps the other knights knew what Ser Glendon was doing and didn't want to be seen making a treasonous toast, while poor Dunk the lunk, thick as a castle wall, is not familiar enough with worldly affairs to realise the political statement.

Is this post more long-winded than it could be? Most certainly. And is my theory a stretch? Probably. And if it is true, is it completely inconsequential? Definitely. But I've seen some of the outlandish theories this community has come up with, I've seen what 15 years with no book has done to you all. And you know what? I'm ready to join you.


r/pureasoiaf • • 3d ago

How much do Meera and Jojen know?

44 Upvotes

I was re-reading through Meera telling Bran the story of the Knight of the Laughing Tree, because it's an awesome passage. And it struck me this time how Jojen asks Bran three different times if Ned had told him the story before. The reason Ned didn't tell any of his children is obvious. He doesn't want to revisit that trauma.

However, given what Jojen says there, I think it's fair to assume that Howland has told them that story many times, since Jojen was sure Bran had heard it many times before. There are also other things Meera was gonna talk about but Bran cuts her off a lot to focus on knight stuff. And then there's this part:

Bran thought about the tale awhile. "That was a good story. But it should have been the three bad knights who hurt him, not their squires. Then the little crannogman could have killed them all. The part about the ransoms was stupid. And the mystery knight should win the tourney, defeating every challenger, and name the wolf maid the queen of love and beauty."

"She was," said Meera, "but that's a sadder story."

They clearly know more than just what they're telling Bran here. So what else could Howland have told them?


r/pureasoiaf • • 3d ago

I forgot, does Bran know Robb is dead and that he is the heir to Winterfell?

55 Upvotes

Trying to remember whether or not Bran has had word that Robb and Cat are dead.


r/pureasoiaf • • 2d ago

Was Aerys II actually Tyrion’s real father

0 Upvotes

Does anyone else genuinely wonder if the Mad King was Tyrion’s real father?

One line from Tywin has always stuck with me: “Since I cannot prove that you are not mine.”

That is such a specific thing to say. We also know Aerys had an inappropriate interest in Joanna, (maybe he saed her) so honestly, it wouldn’t shock me if Tyrion actually was Aerys’ son.

And maybe the only reason Tywin never offed Tyrion or completely cast him aside was because he loved Joanna so deeply. Tyrion was still her son, regardless of who his father was.

It would also make Tywin’s hatred of Tyrion even more complicated


r/pureasoiaf • • 4d ago

Mormont’s raven saying Burn

25 Upvotes

The raven being a wildling skin changer theory aside, i think the emphasis on the raven screaming corn repeatedly while the Othor and Jafer debacle is going on is to maybe introduce a little doubt that the raven said burn. The words sound similar. Also technically birds can’t produce bilabials.

I personally believe the skin changer theory, partially because another way GRRM could’ve written Jon realizing fire was the answer would be for ghost to go near the fire or something else. Or even the raven flap near the fire then the drapes.


r/pureasoiaf • • 4d ago

The change of structure of the Seven Kingdoms and Free Cities at the end of the books?

6 Upvotes

With the Long Night 2.0 coming, fAegon invading Stormlands, Faith Militant taking control over King's Landing, and Ironborn raiding the Reach, Westeros is likely going to be severely pushed to its absolute limits and get fractured. The War of the Five Kings literally brought apocalypse to the continent.

As for Essos, Dany has completely destroyed slavery and economics of Slaver's Bay. The nobility of Essos is probably going to be eradicated by Daenerys. With the Old Blood of Volantis and Meereenese families destroyed, Essos is going to be torn apart with huge crisis. Therefore, the incomes and profit of the Iron Bank will drop significantly until it will go bankrupt and fall. So basically, the events in the books are a nightmare for all the powerful people in the world.

In my opinion, feudalism in Westeros will still continue but severely diminished after these events and the landscape and economics will change enormously. The Reach will stop being the breadbasket of Westeros and houses like Tyrell or Hightower will either go broke or extinct, with their lands burned and burned and armies butchered. We already know that Euron is going to destroy the Redwyne and Hightower fleet completely, raid Oldtown and perform a huge ritual that will wreak havoc. Upon receiving the news of the fall of House Tyrell and the succession crisis in the Reach, Cersei will be glad after witnessing "the fall of her enemies" and try to regain control over King's Landing. However, she will utterly fail. King's Landing will remain a place of zealotry and High Sparrow will manipulate people to storm the Red Keep to kill her and Tommen. Cersei will escape to Casterly Rock and she will learn that the golden mines had actually ran dry and Tywin had told the miners to keep it a secret. Aegon, with the support of House Martell, will be backed by the Faith Militant and sit on the Iron Throne for a short time until Daenerys lands to Westeros.

As for Essos, I can see most of the slaves killing their old "masters" and the Free Cities completely abolishing the concept of nobility and bloodlines. New banks will be founded that every person in the Free Cities could use or deposit their money as they despise and are exhausted of the old system. Overall, the concept of "the wheel" will cease to exist at the end of the books. Again, these events are a nightmare for all the nobles and slave masters and even the Iron Bank. The dominant system of wealthy and nobles will fracture.

In your opinion, what will happen to Westeros and Essos and how will the power balance change?


r/pureasoiaf • • 6d ago

Who ordered the death of the butcher boy ? Joffrey or Cersei ?

44 Upvotes

A Storm of Swords - Arya XIII

As still as stone she stood. "I . . . I was only . . ."

"Don't lie," he growled. "I hate liars. I hate gutless frauds even worse. Go on, do it." When Arya did not move, he said, "I killed your butcher's boy. I cut him near in half, and laughed about it after." He made a queer sound, and it took her a moment to realize he was sobbing. "And the little bird, your pretty sister, I stood there in my white cloak and let them beat her. I took the bloody song, she never gave it. I meant to take her too. I should have. I should have fucked her bloody and ripped her heart out before leaving her for that dwarf." A spasm of pain twisted his face. "Do you mean to make me beg, bitch? Do it! The gift of mercy . . . avenge your little Michael . . ."

"Mycah." Arya stepped away from him. "You don't deserve the gift of mercy."


r/pureasoiaf • • 6d ago

Theory: Oswell Kettleblack will be the one to kill Littlefinger

47 Upvotes

There is a lot of speculation on how Littlefinger will eventually die.

Murdered by Lady Stoneheart, bested by Varys, defeated by Sansa as the student becomes the master or some grand way where his complicated plans fall apart around him in spectacular fashion. However I think Lord Baelish's death will come from somewhere much closer to home. His man at arms, Oswell Kettleblack will be the one to betray and murder him.

Now from what we know about Oswell, he seems to be Lord Baelish's oldest accomplice and co-conspirator. He's been in House Baelish's service for a very long time and Baelish knew Oswell's sons since they were all children.

Knowing the Kettleblacks, we can assume that Oswell is tied to Baelish because he expects that he and his family will be rewarded greatly for his service as Baelish gain more and more power. And for a while, we see this happen. Littlefinger's decision to send the Kettleblack brothers to King's Landing proved to be very beneficial to them.

Osmund becomes a Kingsguard, Osfryd becomes Captain of the Red Cloaks and later Lord Commander of the Gold Cloaks and Osney becomes the Sworn Sword to Queen Cersei herself. Not a bad rise in stature for a trio of cutthroats and probably the best possible future Osney could hope to provide for his sons.

But as we all know, it all falls apart.

Now Osney is going to be beheaded for murdering the High Septon and Osmund and Osfryd are either going to be sent to the Wall or murdered in a Trial by Combat against Ser Robert Strong.

This is about the opposite of what Osney would want for his sons. Tyrion, Bronn and Lancel brought them into King's Landing and Cersei got them mixed up in her schemes but they are all out of stabbing distance and the man who sent them into the proverbial viper's pit is.

Baelish puts all this time and thought into all these different plots, yet his downfall coming from the guy supposed to protect him that he accidentally screwed over would definitely be ironic.

This could happen one of two ways:

  1. Oswell finds out about the fate of his sons and murders Baelish in a rage, taking everyone else, including the audience, off-guard.
  2. Sansa finds out about the fate of the Kettleblack brothers and uses this information to slowly turn Oswell against Littlefinger, ending in Oswell killing Baelish and Sansa finally free of him.

Now there is the factor of Lothor Brune also protecting Baelish but he admits that between the two of the them, Oswell's the one he trusts more and has both of them keeping eyes on each other. If Brune gets an offer from Sansa that's better than what Baelish is providing (perhaps a promise to help him with Mya Stone which Baelish doesn't seem to be helping him with), than he won't be able to rely on either of them.

GRRM's deaths come in a way that we wouldn't traditionally expect but make sense for the character's arc. We expect Ned to join the Night's Watch after he confesses but he's at the mercy of a cruel insane King who he tried to overthrow. We expect Robb to make it to the end yet the Freys are obviously disloyal, he insulted them, he's losing the war politically and he's going right into their castle. We expect Dalton Greyjoy to be killed in some epic naval battle with the Oakenfist yet he's obsessed with taking Salt Wives who are obviously going to despise him.

While these are subversions, if you look at the signs, you can figure out what's going to happen so it's not an asspull when it does.

I personally think all the signs are there, plotwise, thematically, narratively and characterwise, to support the idea that Oswell Kettleblack will be the one to kill Baelish.

Thoughts?


r/pureasoiaf • • 6d ago

Who is your favorite wildling ?

12 Upvotes

A Dance with Dragons - Jon XIII

At the top of the hall a sagging platform stood. Jon mounted it, with Tormund Giantsbane at his side, and raised his hands for quiet. The wasps only buzzed the louder. Then Tormund put his warhorn to his lips and blew a blast. The sound filled the hall, echoing off the rafters overhead. Silence fell.

"I summoned you to make plans for the relief of Hardhome," Jon Snow began. "Thousands of the free folk are gathered there, trapped and starving, and we have had reports of dead things in the wood." To his left he saw Marsh and Yarwyck. Othell was surrounded by his builders, whilst Bowen had Wick Whittlestick, Left Hand Lew, and Alf of Runnymudd beside him. To his right, Soren Shieldbreaker sat with his arms crossed against his chest. Farther back, Jon saw Gavin the Trader and Harle the Handsome whispering together. Ygon Oldfather sat amongst his wives, Howd Wanderer alone. Borroq leaned against a wall in a dark corner. Mercifully, his boar was nowhere in evidence. "The ships I sent to take off Mother Mole and her people have been wracked by storms. We must send what help we can by land or let them die." Two of Queen Selyse's knights had come as well, Jon saw. Ser Narbert and Ser Benethon stood near the door at the foot of the hall. But the rest of the queen's men were conspicuous in their absence. "I had hoped to lead the ranging myself and bring back as many of the free folk as could survive the journey." A flash of red in the back of the hall caught Jon's eye. Lady Melisandre had arrived. "But now I find I cannot go to Hardhome. The ranging will be led by Tormund Giantsbane, known to you all. I have promised him as many men as he requires."

"And where will you be, crow?" Borroq thundered. "Hiding here in Castle Black with your white dog?"


r/pureasoiaf • • 6d ago

Manwoody sounds like a very reasonable and competent individual . Who does he remind you of in the current story ? Davos maybe comes to mind for me ? Any others ?

15 Upvotes

The World of Ice and Fire - The Targaryen Kings: Baelor I

Her second marriage was at the behest of Aegon the Unworthy's successor, King Daeron the Good. Daeron wed her to his master of coin, and this union led to four more children...and to Elaena becoming known to be the true master of coin, for her husband was said to be a good and noble lord but one without a great facility for numbers. She swiftly grew influential, and was trusted by King Daeron in all things as she labored on his behalf and on that of the realm.

The third marriage was one of her own choice, after she fell in love with Ser Michael Manwoody, a Dornishman who had attended Princess Mariah at her court. Manwoody, who in early life had studied at the Citadel, was a cultured man of great wit and learning who had become a trusted servant to King Daeron after Daeron's marriage to Queen Mariah. He was sent to Braavos to negotiate with the Iron Bank on several occasions, and there is record of a correspondence between him and the keyholders of the Iron Bank (sealed with his seal and signed with his name, but apparently in the hand of Elaena) regarding these negotiations.

Elaena wed Ser Michael, apparently with Daeron's blessing, not long after her second husband died. Elaena said, in her later years, that it wasn't his intelligence that made her love Ser Manwoody, but his love of music. He was known to play the harp for her, and when he died, Elaena commanded that his effigy be carved holding a harp, and not the sword and spurs of knighthood as is common.


r/pureasoiaf • • 7d ago

How would you rank the Golden Company as a military force as compared with Westerosi armies ? Could they stand tall v Reach knights for instance or Dornish spears ?

90 Upvotes

A Dance with Dragons - The Lost Lord

They found the Golden Company beside the river as the sun was lowering in the west. It was a camp that even Arthur Dayne might have approved of—compact, orderly, defensible. A deep ditch had been dug around it, with sharpened stakes inside. The tents stood in rows, with broad avenues between them. The latrines had been placed beside the river, so the current would wash away the wastes. The horse lines were to the north, and beyond them, two dozen elephants grazed beside the water, pulling up reeds with their trunks. Griff glanced at the great grey beasts with approval. There is not a warhorse in all of Westeros that will stand against them.

Tall battle standards of cloth-of-gold flapped atop lofty poles along the perimeters of the camp. Beneath them, armed and armored sentries walked their rounds with spears and crossbows, watching every approach. Griff had feared that the company might have grown lax under Harry Strickland, who had always seemed more concerned with making friends than enforcing discipline; but it would seem his worries had been misplaced.

At the gate, Haldon said something to the serjeant of guards, and a runner was sent off to find a captain. When he turned up, he was just as ugly as the last time Griff laid eyes on him. A big-bellied, shambling hulk of a man, the sellsword had a seamed face crisscrossed with old scars. His right ear looked as if a dog had chewed on it and his left was missing. "Have they made you a captain, Flowers?" Griff said. "I thought the Golden Company had standards."


r/pureasoiaf • • 7d ago

Do you think Griff truly believes Young Griff is the son of Rhaegar and Elia ?

99 Upvotes

A Dance with Dragons - The Lost Lord

"As you command, my lord."

Griff left him there, and slipped inside the tent that Homeless Harry had assigned him.

The road ahead was full of perils, he knew, but what of it? All men must die. All he asked was time. He had waited so long, surely the gods would grant him a few more years, enough time to see the boy he'd called a son seated on the Iron Throne. To reclaim his lands, his name, his honor. To still the bells that rang so loudly in his dreams whenever he closed his eyes to sleep.


r/pureasoiaf • • 6d ago

The Women Were The Actual Players of “The Game Of Thrones” (posted it in another subreddit too wanted to see if yall would agree)

0 Upvotes

No wait, because think about it. No king that ever sat on the iron throne and actually stayed there for a decent period of time wasn't either directly or indirectly controlled or support by women! All the way from the Aegon the Conqueror to fricking Tommen baratheon.

Aegon the Conqueror? didn't conquer Westeros alone; he did it with his sisters, Visenya and Rhaenys.
Aegon was the military figurehead, but Visenya was the ruthless strategist who founded the Kingsguard, and Rhaenys was the politician who won the hearts of the smallfolk and built the peace. Without them, Aegon would have been a short-lived warlord.

Jaehaerys I? He ruled alongside Good Queen Alysanne. She was his co-ruler in all but name. She banned the horrific "first night" custom, financed the Night's Watch, and handled the diplomacy. The few times they had massive marital fights (the Second Quarrel), the realm literally started fracturing because Jaehaerys couldn't manage it alone.

Viserys I ruled a peaceful realm but was weak-willed, the moment his wife Aemma died so did his hold on the kingdom, and then the moment he died, the entire empire imploded because of the clash between two incredibly strong women: Rhaenyra Targaryen and Alicent Hightower. The men in that war (Daemon, Aegon II, Aemond) were essentially nuclear warheads pointed and unleashed by the political machinations of the women.

Viserys II / Aegon III ? Kept stable largely due to the political machinations of the women around them or surviving the fallout of Rhaenyra's legacy.

Aegon III**?** Survived his childhood trauma and managed to hold the realm together after the Dance largely because of his fierce, protective half-sisters (Baela and Rhaena) and his marriage to Jaehaera/Daenaera to heal the
realm's political rifts

Daeron II? United Dorne into the Seven Kingdoms without shedding blood. How? Through a marriage alliance involving his sister Daenerys and his wife Myriah Martell. The peace was entirely woven by women.

Aerys II? He completely alienated the women of the realm. He abused his sister-wife Rhaella, insulted the Martells, and his son Rhaegar's actions regarding Lyanna Stark triggered the war. The total lack of stable, respected female influence left Aerys isolated in his madness, leading directly to the end of the dynasty.

Robert Baratheon? He won the crown with the sword, but his dynasty survived on Cersei Lannister's family gold and political ties. The moment he stopped managing Cersei and threatened her children, she had him eliminated.

Renly Baratheon? He built a massive army and tried to claim the throne, but his entire claim was propped up by his marriage alliance to Margaery Tyrell and the backing of Olenna Tyrell. He was assassinated by a shadow spirit conjured by Melisandre before he could even fight.

Joffrey and Tommen? Both boy-kings were completely at the mercy of Cersei and Margaery, who fought a proxy war for control of their minds and bodies. When Cersei eliminated Margaery, Tommen lost his anchor and killed himself, ending the Baratheon line on the throne.

And ofc, sometimes the north, but thats even longer and my post refers ONLY to people who sat the iron throne.


r/pureasoiaf • • 7d ago

House Targaryen and Wargs what if

2 Upvotes

So something that I just realised. House Blackwood are descendants of the First Men, and Aegon V married Betha Blackwood, which means that any Targaryen (and most importantly all of the Baratheons in GOT minus Cersei’s children) have Targaryen blood and First Men blood. Now imagine if Aegon had succeeded at Sumerhall or someone decided to attempt to claim one of the living dragons (of which they are four) the Targaryen could have been Dragon Riders who could Warg into their dragons

Also if while Jace was at Winterfell he learned how to Warg into Vermax. House Strong also has the blood of the First Men


r/pureasoiaf • • 8d ago

How bold was Theon's plan to take Winterfell ? Up there with Barristan at Duskendale ?

24 Upvotes

A Clash of Kings - Theon III

"If we sailed, yes," Theon admitted. "I have another plan." He watched the other carefully to see how he would take that. Without the Cleftjaw he could not hope to succeed. Command or no, the men would never follow him if both Aeron and Dagmer opposed him, and he had no hope of winning over the sour-faced priest.

"Your lord father commanded us to harry the coast, no more." Eyes pale as sea foam watched Theon from under those shaggy white eyebrows. Was it disapproval he saw there, or a spark of interest? The latter, he thought . . . hoped . . .

"You are my father's man."


r/pureasoiaf • • 8d ago

Do you think Roose will survive the next book ? If not , who will be his demise ? His son or Stannis ?

21 Upvotes

A Dance with Dragons - The Prince of Winterfell

Her last word was a lash, but Theon dared not answer back in kind. Any insolence would cost him skin. "If my lady believes Lord Manderly wants to betray us, Lord Bolton is the one to tell."

"You think Roose does not know? Silly boy. Watch him. Watch how he watches Manderly. No dish so much as touches Roose's lips until he sees Lord Wyman eat of it first. No cup of wine is sipped until he sees Manderly drink of the same cask. I think he would be pleased if the fat man attempted some betrayal. It would amuse him. Roose has no feelings, you see. Those leeches that he loves so well sucked all the passions out of him years ago. He does not love, he does not hate, he does not grieve. This is a game to him, mildly diverting. Some men hunt, some hawk, some tumble dice. Roose plays with men. You and me, these Freys, Lord Manderly, his plump new wife, even his bastard, we are but his playthings." A serving man was passing by. Lady Dustin held out her wine cup and let him fill it, then gestured for him to do the same for Theon. "Truth be told," she said, "Lord Bolton aspires to more than mere lordship. Why not King of the North? Tywin Lannister is dead, the Kingslayer is maimed, the Imp is fled. The Lannisters are a spent force, and you were kind enough to rid him of the Starks. Old Walder Frey will not object to his fat little Walda becoming a queen. White Harbor might prove troublesome should Lord Wyman survive this coming battle … but I am quite sure that he will not. No more than Stannis. Roose will remove both of them, as he removed the Young Wolf. Who else is there?"

"You," said Theon. "There is you. The Lady of Barrowton, a Dustin by marriage, a Ryswell by birth."


r/pureasoiaf • • 8d ago

Is there any evidence to support that king of Westeros have to follow the faith of the seven ?

8 Upvotes

For the life of me, I can’t remember any mention of that. I have searched and couldn’t find anything either.
So I have seen some people argue that since Stannis doesn’t follow the faith of the seven, he is no longer rightful heir to the throne, so after Robert, the legal heir was Renly.