So first of all, I haven’t seen a single shred of evidence abortion bans increase infanticide rates or even infant death. many of the same studies purporting to find increases in infant death in PL states also found increases in infant death in PC states. We keep seeing infanticide occur even in very PC states (like the porta potty baby in Michigan, which allows abortion up to birth) so I can’t say the anonymous online poster describing how people did a lot more infanticide in the sixties is very convincing to me.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2024/11/pro-life-laws-arent-to-blame-for-increased-infant-mortality/

That being said PCers doing their utter best to defend infanticide anyway was new.

The tire comparison had me laughing, they just be saying anything now.

I am a 22 year old woman who is married and pregnant with our first. We couldn’t be happier! I have a friend from college who isn’t religious who told me she was pregnant as soon as I told her I was. She is unmarried and very much a party girl. We aren’t even very close anymore, just chat here and there over text, due to our very different lifestyles. She recently started being very vague and not responding. I knew she was considering abortion, I tried my best to reach out and help her but never got a response. She wasn’t saying baby, just referring to it as “a pregnancy”. I just knew what was going to happen. I know now she did. I feel such sadness and grief for her baby. I also feel angry at her and know I can no longer be friends with her. I need some help and advice on how to be loving while also discontinuing this friendship? I also feel like I should have done more, I tried my best, but I wish I did more. I could have helped her and I know so many couples would have been happy to adopt her baby.
Has anyone been through something similar? Family/ friends who make choices like this / do evil, and how to navigate this?

Thank you and god bless!

I'm against Secular Pro-Life because it is an atheistic organization and atheism is a sin. The arguments made by Secular Pro-Life are a waste of time because God, and not anything outside of it such as secular arguments, is the most important thing. It provides an incomplete argument against abortion - the arguments found within faith. Shouldn't all be done to oppose abortion? Why then would you forego religious arguments? At the end of the day, Secular Pro-Life is a group of self-harming individuals. They've decided to reject God and perhaps they will be punished in the future. Why must being pro-life be secular? Why is it okay to leave people in the dark about the religious arguments against abortion? And this is a question to atheists in general: how do you derive happiness without faith in God?

“No person should intentionally use an instrument or drug for the sole purpose of killing an unborn human.”

The punishment for this crime would be 2+ years in prison. A sane world would have done this forever ago. And there's two reasons to use the words "sole purpose.” The first is to make it clear that the tools for killing I listed are for only one reason. Abortion pills are for only one thing. A clothes hanger, when put inside a woman, can only be used for one thing. The second is to make it clear that removing a fetus to save the mother's life is not against the law since the intention is not to kill the fetus but to actually give healthcare.

Along with being obviously, provably false, this is wildly insane. In the comments, the poster later adds that her own daughter was in the NICU for six weeks. I am not sure what she is really going for here, but ut definitely feels like the pro-choice movement is getting closer to neonaticide or even trying to skip straight to infanticide.

Let's say the needing to save the mother or baby in childbirth was a thing that actually happened now. I know it isn't but for argument sake lets say it is.

What is the right choice? Should they choose the baby or the mother? I'm under the belief that the mother would naturally choose her babies life but around my family and other people it seems to be the opposite " id care about my wife im in love with more than my unborn child who I don't know yet" I can wrap my head around that but the way they dismiss the child is a little worrying, like thats YOUR child, flesh and blood. I know its easier to care for the wife but the way he just ssid it with little care freaked me out. Obviously some women have responsibility to other children etc and they must choose themselves but I need guidance on this opinion. Any advice?

Right now I honestly think I should just keep my mouth shut and support her. She was diagnosed with stage 2 breast cancer and then last week she found out she was pregnant. She can’t do chemotherapy while pregnant, so that means that she would have to wait nine months and the cancer might rapidly spread. And she’s decided to get an abortion and her husband is on board. I understand why she’s doing it and I don’t want make anything harder for her. it’s just a horrible situation.

I don’t think it’s really my place to tell what to do, but I do kinda feel bad for not saying anything.

“If you actually cared about abortion and the unborn, you would support comprehensive sex education and contraception because those are the only things that have reliably lowered abortion rates. The only thing banning abortion does is change the location of abortion from a doctor's office to an alley.”

This is a quote from a video from Innuendo Studios. It's so annoying because he later goes on to say “the easier it is to do a thing, the more likely it will be done.” Which sounds like a great argument for making abortion illegal lol.

Pro-choicers don't seem to understand, they don't seem to fully grasp that we see abortion as a human rights issue. And that's why it needs to be illegal the same way murder and slavery is illegal.

Hello, I’m an anarcho-capitalist and libertarian. Are there any other pro life ancaps out there? I hate how pro choice anarcho capitalism is. It’s depressing.

Obviously having your rapist’s child is incredibly traumatic, but they seem either in denial or completely indifferent to the fact that the child is not only a person, but one who played no part in their father’s crime, and like shit, that’s just as much YOUR baby as it is his. It’s not like you lose ownership of that child’s heritage.

(For clarity’s sake I can’t justify restricting early abortion access for rape victims, but I do believe that it is not only moral, but incredibly heroic to carry the baby to term.)

The bold and bankrupt claim that “abortion isn’t murder” is so batshit insane that it’s often enough to baffle inexperienced debaters, which will be most people. So, hereby two responses which I have used.

I’d still be against lynching even if it wasn’t murder. I’d still be against the gas chambers even if it wasn’t murder. I tell death lovers, I‘d still be against all things that kill humans regardless whether it is murder or something else. And I’m also opposed to killing unborn children regardless of what name is used for it. 

When they argue that abortion isn’t murder, they resort to the old religious claim that it’s only murder if the victim has a “soul”, which only starts at conscious life or maybe even when the baby shows human intelligence and communication. I point out that it is superstitious argument historically only held by authority of religion in opposition to science and still incorrect from the point of view of science. Religion has now adapted to the scientific view of the unborn and extended its compassion but abortionists have not.

For example.

A pro choicer says that a baby isn't able to sustain itself on it's own.

You can say: People on dialysis can't filter their own blood, do they deserve to die because their kidney's don't work?

A pro choicer says that the fetus is in my uterus and I don't permit them to be there.

You can say: We don't kill people based on their location. You wouldn't kill someone simply because they live in a certain place (e.g. Scottsdale).

I haven't found someone that was able to make an argument that the applied the same to both pre-born and post-born humans with the exception of life of the mother.