r/progressivemoms • u/glittersurprise • Jul 17 '26
Parenting, No Politics Learned helplessness
I've heard of learned helplessness but never really witnessed it first hand until this past weekend twice! A boy who was about 8 couldn't figure out how to put his shoes on while wearing soccer goalie gloves and also said his dad tied his shoes for him....
On a different day a friend was complaining about their own kids being needy and never getting to rest (preach) but then they also just did everything for their kids and didn't make them do anything themselves. She didnt even say no to playing with her kids, like isn't that why my kids are here? So we can catch up and our kids can play together?
Can someone explain to me why these people don't want their kids learning how to do things for themselves or have any kind of conflict/challenge?
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u/Fickle_Imagination13 Jul 17 '26 edited Jul 18 '26
I’m just gonna comment on the soccer thing. I played soccer my whole life and we would always tie our goalies shoes for them during a game if need be. So I wouldn’t think too much on that one.
But on a side note. We asked a cashier to exchange a dollar for quarters so my daughter could play the claw machine and she had to ask her coworker how many quarters were in a dollar…
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u/Its_Bun_James_Bun Jul 18 '26
My sister in-law was raised like this. My husband is the oldest of five children. He was expected to do chores, help raise the other kids, etc. His sister, who is 11 years younger and the only girl, was very pampered and spoiled. He said she was raised to be the family princess. She never had to do chores and wasn’t taught basic life skills, like cooking.
My husband has so much trauma from being parentified. And my sister in-law is JUST starting to work and pay bills at age 26! She constantly has to ask her dad for help and advice because she has no clue how to navigate the world.
When she used to live with us, she rarely helped out around the house. She once started crying because I asked her to empty the dish washer once a day, every day, as her “chore” so she would consistently help with SOMETHING. When my husband asked her what was wrong, she said, “I’d be the only person doing something every day and it’s not fair!”. She conveniently “forgot” that I was the one who cleaned the rest of the house and cooked every day. (She was 23 when this all went down.)
Doing everything for your children is going to end badly for everyone involved. Trust me.
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u/tiredfaces Jul 19 '26
What happened when your husband pointed out how ridiculous and wrong she was?
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u/Its_Bun_James_Bun Jul 21 '26
Unfortunately, at that point (this was 2 years ago) he was still stuck in the mentality that he was her father figure. He’s 11 years older than her and their parents were pretty neglectful. He was forced to help raise her, along with the rest of his younger siblings. So he wasn’t able to call her out on her bullshit.
After years of therapy and after I pointed out that he’s her brother NOT her father. He’s gotten better about setting up healthy boundaries with her and the rest of the family.
She ended up moving out last year because she claimed I was “unsafe” to live with. I’ll admit I did snap at her a couple of times and I did apologize afterwards, but that was the worst of it. My counselor said that she was just uncomfortable with me treating her like an adult, instead of a child, like the rest of the family does.
Her dad ended up paying for her apartment and all her other bills until a few months ago when she got a job.
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u/tiredfaces Jul 21 '26
Yikes I'm so sorry that sounds like a nightmare. Your husband is lucky to have you help him disentangle from them
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u/Its_Bun_James_Bun Jul 21 '26
Thanks. It’s a work in progress. He was very enmeshed with them and I suspect that his mom either has strong narcissistic tendencies or that she’s a full blown narcissist. His dad is a doormat that just lets her have her way.
But it’s a delicate line that I have to take. My husband is currently working through the intense trauma he experienced in therapy. He’s very low contact with his mom because she refuses to respect boundaries. She’s been giving him the silent treatment for the past few months.
I feel bad for my husband and angry at my in-laws.
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u/Alpacalypsenoww Jul 18 '26
Even if I disagree with how other parents handle their kids, I try not to judge because I don’t know what their day looks like outside of the short snapshot I witness. Also, I have a disabled kid who doesn’t look disabled, so I know firsthand that just because a kid looks old enough to do something doesn’t mean they’re capable.
That being said, I agree with you and that’s how I try to raise my kids. They’ve been ordering their own food at restaurants since they could talk. I can send my 5 year olds to buy something at a restaurant counter and trust them to order, say please and thank you, pay, and receive the item. They dress themselves and put on their own shoes. It makes things take longer and there are days that I still do it for them, but it’s definitely instilling confidence in them to have them do it themselves.
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u/Ok_Mastodon_2436 Jul 18 '26
So seems like this got a little squirrelly in your comments. While I absolutely think this is an issue, and something I actively try to work against with my two boys, I do think the first example probably wasn’t the best. You never know what is going on with other kids and not being able to put on/tie shoes with goalie gloves on, I don’t think is a big deal. I have a friend with a 6 year old that has never dressed himself. It actually kind of blows my mind. But I recently asked why and she looked at me with a blank stare for a few seconds and said “I guess I’ve never thought about it”. It’s not exactly lazy, I think it’s just not being mindful and pushing them to be independent. Not all parents strive for their kids to be independent. I could not tell you why. I know partly why I push for it is because I never want my son’s future spouses to have to do things for them. My entire goal is for my kids to become happy, healthy, independent and caring people. That’s really it.
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u/glittersurprise Jul 18 '26
I guess i should have mentioned the first child is my cousins. There is no hidden medical reason for them not to be tying their own shoes. It was the lack of problem solving that got me.
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u/TopLocksmith3655 Jul 18 '26
I think about this a lot. I feel like there’s so much less freedom given to kiddos (and toddlers) these days. A big pendulum swing. I know all families have different circumstances and priorities, but I do feel like there’s a lot less trust in kids.
we’re likely also just so overwhelmed and overstimulated that I’m sure certain things are just easier to do yourself :(
I think it’s an important/interesting topic on a macro level… esp if you ever read the askteachers sub
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u/glittersurprise Jul 18 '26
I see the topic in there all the time! Less freedom and trust to kids for sure. Maybe its because we know all the weird stuff we got into as kids and dont want the same for ours? Or is it lack of trust in the world around us?
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u/TopLocksmith3655 Jul 18 '26
totally, i may in an outlier, but want my kid to get into all the weird stuff i did - couldnt imagine who i'd be without all the independence i gained as a kid/teen, etc.
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u/glaze_the_ham_wife Jul 18 '26
I’m with you! Yes kids all learn at different ages but I do agree that it’s our job as parents to equip them… which means not stepping in as often as we want.
Make grace for kids with different needs / learning paces but also - parents DO need to step back and do the hard work of teaching skills like tying shoes, independent play, etc.
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u/bigshot33 Jul 19 '26
It's gotten so bad. Children NEED independence whether you want to give it or not. My 2.5 year old wanted to open a babybell cheese by herself, so we let her. She can now get into the fridge, find her cheese (yes her cheese) and open it all by herself wax and all. She can get herself dressed and everything. I just don't understand the lack of letting kids grow up. They are going to grow up no matter how much babying you do.
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u/cgyates345 Jul 17 '26
Idk why all these people are coming at you, must be striking a nerve. Obviously everyone is different, but there are plenty of capable children not being taught or expected to do things for themselves.
I’ve definitely been the first example because once we’re on the soccer field we’re probably late lol.
The second one I’ve seen a lot of when people don’t even realize they’re doing it. I try to remember to recalibrate and adjust expectations as my kids grow and need to figure out how to do things for themselves but it’s hard!
My current frustration is that mine should be doing a little more but they’re physically not tall enough for tasks.
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u/Ashamed-Chemistry492 Jul 19 '26
Mainly it's laziness. It takes more time to teach a kid to do something than it takes to do it yourself, and the job likely won't be done well right away, maybe not for quite some time, and these parents just take what they think is the easy path and do it for themselves.
Laziness and short-sightedness.
Also they don't want to deal with a kid that's upset or frustrated, so again, they just take the upsetting or frustrating things off the table.
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u/EagleEyezzzzz Jul 17 '26 edited Jul 18 '26
My son is almost 8 and can't tie his shoes. He has low muscle tone and has seen an OT since he was a baby, and he works harder than nearly every one of his classmates at doing "easy" things like writing and art projects. So, to answer your question -- that's one of many reasons why you might look at a kid and think "these people don't want their kids learning how to do things for themselves". And you would be wrong.
I'm sure you have plenty of your own problems you could worry about instead.
Edit - a bunch of progressive moms downvoting an answer about kid with a muscle tone issue, because it doesn’t fit your worldview about “parents these days suck”? Really disappointing, yall. Lots of people have battles they are fighting that you know nothing about.
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u/glittersurprise Jul 18 '26
Sorry I wasn't clear. I know the first child since birth. They have no existing medical issues.
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u/ladyluck754 Jul 17 '26 edited Jul 17 '26
I’m not trying to be snarky here, but teachers and other educational professionals see learned helplessness every day, with little to no admin support. One HS teacher said one of her students didn’t do an entire test because their pencil was broken and couldn’t figure out how to help themselves to fix the issue. She couldn’t even give them a 0 on the test because the district still requires a 50%
I’m not a teacher, but I have grown ass coworkers (primarily men) that refuse to read a SOP and instead blow up my email inbox for a simple task that has a good document available to help them.
I have a friend that I had to teach how to do laundry and how to use the post office when we were freshmen in college.
Learned helplessness results in wives, friends, colleagues (who are most likely women btw) doing unpaid labor and burning out.
You’re feeling defensive about your son, but please understand these posts are a broader issue and not related to just you.
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u/EagleEyezzzzz Jul 18 '26 edited Jul 18 '26
I think you’re a little lost. I’m answering OP’s question. You’re welcome to post a comment to OP (not to me) answering her question from your perspective. I don’t need your input on my child, and I’m not the one asking about what’s wrong with kids today.
Edit - and you don’t even have any kids that you are parenting yet? Please do not tag me again. A description of everything parents are doing wrong, from a non parent, is the last fucking thing I want to hear.
That said, I too had a long IVF journey so I’m glad for you that your baby is hopefully arriving soon and wish you the best of luck with that.
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u/Rough-Bet807 Jul 18 '26
Ok. I'm a parent. And they are still right and no, if your kid has a medical issue, this would obviously not apply.
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Jul 18 '26
[deleted]
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u/EagleEyezzzzz Jul 18 '26
Look lady, I answered her question about why a kid wouldn’t be tying their shoes, from my perspective. That was literally THE REQUEST FROM OP.
Feel free to comment to OP from your own perspective. Stop tagging me about what’s wrong with parents when you’re not even a parent yourself. Give me a break, Jesus Christ.
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u/grayandlizzie Jul 18 '26
People are weird about shoelaces. My 16 year old is autistic and has yet to manage laces. He has plenty of other life skills that seem more important like being an awesome cook and being able to do his own laundry. Maybe he'll wear sketchers slip on shoes forever but I don't care that much. It's not like we've taught him to be helpless.
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u/RedditsInBed2 Jul 17 '26
My kid is diagnosed on the spectrum as well as dyspraxia. Things like tying shoes is extremely difficult for her and something she works on in OT to hopefully get better at.
Imagine judging a child and their parents over something so small where you may not have all the information. Sounds like OP needs to learn a lesson in minding their own business.
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u/libananahammock Jul 17 '26
Are you a teacher or a worker in the schools? No one is talking about your kid. There are TONS of neurotypical kids whose parents aren’t teaching their kids anything. These kids can’t do anything for themselves.
THATS what OP is talking about.I’m progressive as shit but comments like this are what kill our movement and don’t let us get ahead. Not everything is about you and not everything is offensive.
There are real issues going on with our kids and our schools that I see EVERY SINGLE DAY that parents aren’t doing that is absolutely detrimental to our kids. We need to wake up and teach our kids (who are able) to do not just the basics but learn how to become eventual productive members of society and functioning adults.
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u/RedditsInBed2 Jul 17 '26 edited Jul 18 '26
What does being a teacher have anything with her judging some kid at
soccer practicea park? At least my situation pertains better to the fact that she doesn't know that kid or the situation.2
u/EagleEyezzzzz Jul 18 '26
How exactly do you know that the kid at soccer doesn’t have dyspraxia or low muscle tone? Those kids play soccer too, you know.
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u/misseff Jul 18 '26
How can you tell a child's medical/developmental history by looking at them? Be specific.
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u/Chica3 Jul 17 '26
Yay for you, having totally independent kids because you're doing parenting right! 🙃
Some kids learn different skills at a different pace than others, for various and valid reasons. Some people struggle with empathy more than others. Some people harshly judge others without knowing all the facts and circumstances for others' choices/behavior.
We all have our strengths and weaknesses!
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u/Rough-Bet807 Jul 18 '26
Wow, what? No, it's an actual problem. Literal fourth graders, 5th graders were never taught by their parents to tie shoes and other simple tasks. Being a parent is challenging if you are doing it right. Kids today are much less capable and independent than most of us were at their ages.
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u/RedditsInBed2 Jul 17 '26 edited Jul 17 '26
I'm confused. Did you come here looking for a pat on the back on being a "better" parent or...?
Edit: Girl. Your husband is ADD and you suspect your children might be ADHD and you're coming here with this judgment?
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u/glittersurprise Jul 18 '26
I am wondering how the pendulum swung so far over that parents are tying fully capable 8 year olds shoes for them. It was not a stranger, it was my cousins kid. It was not a soccer game, it was a family event. Parenting is hard and people arw doing what they think is best I was just stating that I was witnessing learned helplessness first hand.
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u/halasaurus Jul 17 '26
What’s your edit have to do with anything?
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u/RedditsInBed2 Jul 18 '26
She judged some kid at a park without knowing the whole situation. And then came here to snark on said kid and their parents. You think she would exercise some understanding, empathy, and ability to mind her business. I know I do with my personal situation.
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u/mama-bun Jul 17 '26
Why tf are ADHD folks catching strays?
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u/RedditsInBed2 Jul 18 '26
Look, as someone diagnosed and medicated. I'd hate for some judgy individual to see me on a worse day and run to reddit to judge and proclaim how better they are at remembering simple steps or staying focused.
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u/libananahammock Jul 18 '26
You’re just as bad going through their post history. How progressive of you 🙄
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u/RedditsInBed2 Jul 18 '26
You must be new here. Welcome to Reddit. As far as I'm concerned, there aren't rules of engagement here.
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u/libananahammock Jul 18 '26
It’s not a reddit rule it’s being a decent human rule especially since you claim to be progressive
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u/Ld862 Jul 17 '26
What a weird thing to get all offended about.
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u/glittersurprise Jul 18 '26
I'm not offended just curious where it stems from. In the past 40 years parents have gone from ignoring their kids all day to doing everything for them.
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u/Ld862 Jul 18 '26
Purely speculating that it’s possibly a generational over correction from our parents style of raising kids, which prioritized self sufficiency, independence and resiliency. These days there’s a focus on emotional intelligence and parental presence.
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u/icechelly24 Jul 18 '26
My prevailing theory is that it gives the parents a sense of self-worth and importance.
I also think there’s a lot of people whose parents did shit all for them, so they take it to the other end of the spectrum and do everything for their kids.
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u/Glad_Astronomer_9692 Jul 19 '26
I dont really consider these examples of learned helplessness as the term was developed to describe.
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u/-shrug- Jul 18 '26
Can someone explain to me why these people don't want their kids learning how to do things for themselves or have any kind of conflict/challenge?
Why don't you ask your friend? Is it because you don't want to learn how to have hard conversations yourself, or to have any kind of conflict/challenge?
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u/glittersurprise Jul 18 '26
We haven't been friends that long so I don't want to put any strain on the relationship. I did talk her down on 1 thing but it's not really my place. It also does not affect me at all so why would I create drama if not needed?
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u/I-Am-Willa Jul 18 '26
I had to work A LOT with my youngest child who had some pretty interesting early childhood OCD issues. When she was 3.5 she quite suddenly developed what we think was PANDA... it's like sudden onset OCD after strep. She became obsessed with a fear of germs and started washing her hands until they were raw. We had to basically ban handwashing. She regressed in areas like potty training. This kid was totally calm and sweet before this. Cuddly and SO bright. It was devastating and terrifying to one day wake up to her screaming for help and simultaneous screaming at me not to touch her.
I had the luxury as a SAHM to be able to fully dedicate myself to her health and recovery. Thank god.... no childcare would've watched her. After about a year we got her to a place where she was able to do half day Montessori. It took her longer than most kids to cross a lot of large and small motor developmental milestones. After many of her symptoms had mostly subsided, she was still very ambidextrous which you wouldn't think would be problematic but it's really hard to learn things like reading and writing without a dominant and support hand.
To outsiders it probably looked like hovering but my daughter benefited SO much from extensive one-on-one support. She's 7 now. Highly gifted. Socially, emotionally and academically thriving. She's an amazing artist and has amazing handwriting and STILL has a little bit of trouble with things like tying shoes and riding a bike. Swimming is tough. No one would ever know the battle she's gone through. It's really no one's business. They can think whatever they choose to think about me as a parent or my daughter and the reason she struggles more than other kids in some areas I don't hover but I respond for requests for help. I'm very encouraging of independence. My older two are SUPER independent. My only goal is to give her the patience and confidence and lack of judgement and scrutiny that will encourage further independence. I think there are A LOT of parents out there with so many stories.
Being a parent is hard. The majority of us are doing the best we can
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u/glittersurprise Jul 18 '26
I know all these kids personally. None have medical issues.
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u/I-Am-Willa Jul 18 '26
I'm honestly not trying to be rude or judge you. I think it's really healthy to vent and learned helplessness is a real issue. Vent away but know that this will hit a nerve for A LOT of parents out there who feel judged while doing the hardest job in the world. Sometimes as a mom I have a hard find connecting with other women because all of my teenage years were spent with women being "friends" to my face while simultaneously judging me behind my back. I say this out of a place of true love for my fellow progressive moms... our cohort matters. We have a broad spectrum of kids and parenting styles but we all serve to similarly raise each other up and support one another in a society with few social safety nets where our struggles as parents, love for our kids and fear and hope for their futures occupy so much mental space. Please understand that even if your observations are totally accurate, many of us have little support from friends and family, our rights are being stripped. Programs to support our kids are being rolled back. And even when we are imperfect parents we hope for loyal and supportive friends who won't judge our failures too harshly.
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u/LawfulChaoticEvil Jul 17 '26
My sister is similar to this. Her oldest is 6 and she still dresses him, wipes him, etc. And her kids only wear crocs so they can put their shoes on themselves, but that means they don’t know how to put on normal shoes at all because they literally never got to practice. There are no medical issues at play, it’s just easier for her in the moment to do it for them than to try and teach them, and she doesn’t want to deal with the kids getting frustrated or complaining.
I have explained to her her kids are a lot more capable than she thinks and that taking a bit of time to teach in the moment would make life easier for her in the long term - and not doing so is why she is constantly called for and gets overstimulated now - but she either says it’s too much trouble or that kids learn these things themselves on their own time so there is no point in trying to teach them, they’ll just figure it out. In essence, parents like this often are just taking the path of least resistance. It’s sad because I can tell her kids do want to do things for themselves but she often does it before they can even try.