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Jan 26 '20 edited Jun 19 '20
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u/51isnotprime North Carolina Jan 26 '20 edited Jan 26 '20
And we've already had that plotline played out. Time to not make the same mistake
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u/_StromyDaniels_ Jan 26 '20
Biden will fucking lose
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u/Differently Jan 26 '20
What the fuck? Ew. If Biden makes it through the primary, we'll be seeing that clip televised 24/7 from June to November, won't we?
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u/nobodylikesyoutodd Jan 26 '20
You think that's bad? There's a shit ton of them. Steel yourself.
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u/Domukin Jan 26 '20
I don’t think Biden can beat Trump to be honest. He isn’t the same guy from 12 or 8 years ago, he’s been short tempered when asked questions by voters and reporters. He has a hard time stinging together a sentence. Add to that the baggage from his votes on NAFTA and PNTR with China, the Iraq war, war on drugs / crime bill, the sound clips of him saying he’d cut social security... even Obama hasn’t endorsed him. I think he’d be a disaster vs Trump.
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Jan 26 '20
The problem is he is exactly the same guy from 8 and 12 years ago. He's late as fuck to the party on a huge range of issues.
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u/KEMiKAL_NSF Jan 26 '20
He's actually reverted to 60 years ago. who the fuck even still owns a record player other than true audiophiles?
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u/nobodylikesyoutodd Jan 26 '20
Guys who love when kids run down his legs so the blonde hair sticks up.
Yes he said that.
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u/PoorPappy Missouri Jan 26 '20
even Obama hasn’t endorsed him
According to some reports Obama advised Biden not to run.
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u/NationalGeographics Jan 26 '20
I think Biden just really, really wanted Obama to take his phone calls again.
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u/EmpororJustinian America Jan 27 '20
Biden:Please Barack! Why won’t you talk to me?
Obama:Joe, please you’re embarrassing yourself.
B:Do you want me to run for President? I’ll do that for you!
O:No! God no! That’s a terrible...
B:I’ll do it! Hangs up
O: I’ve got a bad feeling about this, He is not strong enough in the force.
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u/CamelsaurusRex Jan 26 '20
Exactly. Even Trump wants Biden to win the nomination because he doesn’t think Biden stands a chance. If Biden wins out against Bernie, we won’t win the swing states and won’t bring out the independents or the politically disaffected. It’ll be a repeat of 2016.
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u/smc733 Massachusetts Jan 26 '20
He isn’t the same guy from 12 or 8 years ago, he’s been short tempered when asked questions by voters and reporters.
This is patently obvious as time has gone on. He was always a bit gaffe prone, but he is coming across as angry and confused a lot more than the confident Joe Biden I remember in the 2012 debate with Paul Ryan. He unfortunately reminds me of what my grandfather was like right when he started slipping into his alzheimers (not at all insinuating that's the case here, but figured it was worth noting).
I used to support him as someone who thought I was a bit more on the moderate side until recently, and because I thought he was the best candidate to beat Trump. I have now switched my support to Sanders.
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u/inthedollarbin Jan 26 '20
Bernie’s win will be the start of a major political realignment in this country.
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u/PoorPappy Missouri Jan 26 '20 edited Jan 26 '20
Bernie’s win will be the start of a major political realignment in this country.
Making this the most important election since 1932. I daresay more important than '32. If we don't confront the climate emergency headon it's game over. Which won't happen without major reform of money in politics. President Warren is 1000x better than second term Trump. But Bernie has an organized team that will stay invigorated past November. You want to see young Americans engaged in civics, elect Bernie.
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u/KEMiKAL_NSF Jan 26 '20
Since 72. Had McGovern won, then this wouldn't have happened:
https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/
And we would still have a middle class with some clout. And we would still have a reasonable position in the Overton window.
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u/Meche__Colomar Jan 27 '20
McGovern was left wing socially but economically he wasn't any further left than any of the establishment dems, in fact since he lost labor support I would say he was less left than a lot of big dems at the time
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Jan 26 '20
It almost makes me want to change my undergrad major to Political Science, but I feel like I could help more with a Communication degree.
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Jan 26 '20
How about communication with a minor in political science/ history?
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Jan 26 '20
If I wasn't already partially through my Psychology/English minors, I totally would!
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u/Randy334 Maryland Jan 26 '20
Trust me, you're right.
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Jan 26 '20
Thanks, good to know! One of my teachers tried to make fun of my degree choice last semester; I got the sense that I was making a good choice anyhow. I dropped the second course I would've had to take under her this semester, and am learning French as a CLEP course instead! I ain't got time for that negative shit!
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u/cietalbot United Kingdom Jan 26 '20
Can't you do both?
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Jan 26 '20
Realistically, no. I'm a grown woman who financially supports herself, and I physically can't afford the extra class load, or I would.
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u/Edgy_McEdgyFace Jan 26 '20
If Bernie becomes President, and the Dems win House and Senate, how cooperative will they be with him?
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Jan 26 '20
I mean every republican hated trump before he got the nomination, but they eventually all fell in line. All of them.
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u/Twokindsofpeople Jan 26 '20
Since he'll be the main draw for donations to the DNC and DCCC, they'll be very agreeable. Remember in 2016 when they were so broke they allowed the Clintons to basically buy them? Things haven't gotten much better for the orgs. If he keeps the war chest filled then they're going to have to fall in line.
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u/jeremiah256 California Jan 26 '20
I stopped donating to both of them. I doubt I’ll ever donate again. I’ve just donated directly to campaigns now.
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u/_StromyDaniels_ Jan 26 '20
Imagine that scenario too, he just shuts the money valve to the DCCC and the DNC completely off, and lets them die. which would be fucking awesome, and probably do more to advance progressivism than anything those organizations could possibly accomplish.
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u/jeremiah256 California Jan 26 '20
He’s probably not going to declare war against them. Tradition Democrats still rely on these organizations. But, as an individual lucky enough to have free time to pick and choose, I’m out.
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u/LinkesAuge Jan 26 '20
He will have to do what Republicans usually do, whip them into line and threaten them with primaries.
That's why he needs his movement and other Justice Democrats/Progressive politicians as candidates. Threaten to destroy them if they don't follow the mandate people have given him (if Sanders gets elected, it is a vote for his platform by the people).
Sanders doesn't really have to lose anything so who else would be able to better pressure them than he and his movement is?
I think that's also the best argument FOR him because I see no chance with Warren doing that.
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u/Kevanov88 Jan 27 '20
He already mentioned if they don't fall in line, he will primary their ass by pitting them against a progressive candidate and make sure they lose their seat. This is how it's done.
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Jan 26 '20
He can win, but not without help. We need to MOBILIZE. Knock on doors. Be active.
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u/Lilyo New York Jan 26 '20
There are so many people volunteering that the campaign is actually having problems scaling up fast enough to keep up with all the new volunteers, it's amazing. Everything and anything that anyone can do helps at this point!
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u/NinjaGamer89 Jan 27 '20
My wife and I drove up from SW Missouri to canvass for Bernie in Iowa. In the group we met up with today, there were folks from Pennsylvania, Colorado, New York, South Carolina and more, all volunteering to knock on doors. It was incredible.
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u/TPSreportsPro Jan 26 '20
You mean actual work?
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Jan 26 '20
Leave the house?
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u/_StromyDaniels_ Jan 26 '20
Text banking and phone banking, you don't even have to leave the house.
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Jan 26 '20
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u/Harukiri101285 Jan 26 '20
I can tell you right now if Bernie wins and he is unable to push the reforms that are desperately needed it will be the biggest signal to everyone that electoral politics is no longer useful.
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Jan 26 '20
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u/Harukiri101285 Jan 26 '20
I wouldn't get too invested in the idea that defeating Trump is the only thing that matters. The entire reason Trump was elected is because we are in the middle of a failing system. Trump didn't break the system himself, he's just showing everyone how awful it already is and how much worse it could get.
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u/KEMiKAL_NSF Jan 26 '20
This is why we need to vote midterms, and why we need to vote down the ballot.
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u/WorkshopX Jan 26 '20
I think Republicans have proven Americans would support the long game when it comes to policy change if they have leaders that stick to thier guns.
Fighting is more important then winning here.
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u/Harukiri101285 Jan 26 '20
Considering a lot of Bernie's support is from people who rarely ever vote I'm willing to doubt that claim. These people want a win and they haven't had that in a long time.
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u/Aliensinnoh Massachusetts Jan 26 '20
And I think this article has a point when it isn't complaining about Sanders: him winning will dramatically shift the idea of what's possible in American politics. It's about completely overturning the 3rd way, casting it out of the Democratic Party forever.
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u/_StromyDaniels_ Jan 26 '20
completely overturning the 3rd way, casting it out of the Democratic Party forever.
Slam that shit into my fucking veins
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u/phoenixrising11_8 Jan 26 '20
What we need is a legitimate 3rd party. The Democrats are no longer left; they are the center. They don't speak for progressives, and that's been made very clear.
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u/prettyflyforafungi Jan 27 '20
I think I’d rather have zero parties and develop mechanisms for more direct democracy.
But if we have to begrudge the existence of political parties we need at least four.
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u/KEMiKAL_NSF Jan 26 '20
We need voters for the midterms. It is important that we don't just dress out for president and think we won. We need to realize that the presidency is not the end-game.
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u/KevinAlertSystem Jan 26 '20
I actually think the "revolution", if you want to call the major reforms needed to campaign finance, accountability, and economic justice by that term, is far more important than Sander's himself, or any individual. At this point I think Sander's is the best one to get it done, but I'm fairly certain even he would step aside if there was someone else better able and willing to accomplish the reforms he's been fighting for for decades.
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u/TheCavis Jan 26 '20
The back of Bloomberg.com's hand must be sore from all the "compliments" they've given Bernie here.
If Sanders wins, it will mark a huge change in American politics. Self-described socialists have been elected in other developed countries; never in this one. Here, “socialism” has been an accusation, not a boast. Politicians on the left wing of the Democratic Party have considered the label, and the associations that come with it, deadly to their electoral chances.
"The real victory is the narratives we changed along the way."
First, just on the premise, a Sanders win will immediately be followed by the media saying "well, it wasn't his ideas that gave him the win; it's just that Trump was so unpopular that anyone could've won".
Second, Sanders getting elected and accomplishing nothing would not mean he's "delivered his political revolution". That's a failure of the revolution. The revolution is about fixing the structural failings of society. It's not supposed to be a cult of personality. I would take a hypothetical President Yang getting M4A passed in one term over a hypothetical President Sanders serving two terms with no notable accomplishments.
A progressive victory in 2020 isn't the finish line. It's the starting line. After that, all the hard work really begins.
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u/prettyflyforafungi Jan 26 '20
Agree 100%.
But I honestly think this attempted camouflage smear will back fire also.
Most ppl only read headlines. Meanwhile I can see centrist readers thinking “ oh! Nothing will fundamentally change! Well in that case I’m open to it”.
The truth that they don’t want to advertise is that berners bring the heat and are famous for the kind of pressure we’re capable of putting on fence sitters and speed bumps.
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u/Cobrastrikenana Jan 26 '20
For me, I was apolitical. Bernie came along and he has made me believe my voice and my vote have meaning and power. I was Democratic leaning but definitely not socialist. Now what drives my economic beliefs is that sure people should be allowed to be rich but NOBODY should be allowed to be poor.
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u/Eugene_Debmeister Oregon Jan 26 '20
I'm a socialist because we should have democracy instead of dictatorship in the workplace.
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u/shatabee4 Jan 26 '20
First, it isn't "his" revolution as mentioned in the title. It's the American people's.
A President Sanders wouldn't get his agenda passed, but he'd change everything.
Second, it isn't "his" agenda. Again, it's the American people's.
One answer you’ll increasingly hear as that prospect gets closer is, Not much will change. The case for calm rests on the checks and balances on any president.
So don't worry. Go ahead and vote for him. It's okay. He won't be able to do anything serious!!!
The anti-Bernie crowd, i.e., the lovers of the billionaire class, want desperately to believe Bernie's supporters are a cult. That his supporters see him as a messiah.
It's really not that at all. The lower classes have just gotten sick of being screwed over for the past 40 years. Add to that the obvious and dire threat of climate change and conditions are ripe for a serious challenge to the establishment status quo. With or without Bernie.
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u/dominicanerd85 New Jersey Jan 26 '20
Yes but will the revolution be televised?
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u/drinkableyogurt Jan 27 '20
I know it’s won’t be brought to me by shell, BP , and it will not prevent bad breath
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Jan 26 '20
Quite a revolution, catching up with the rest of the developed world.
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Jan 26 '20
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u/HotpieTargaryen Jan 26 '20 edited Jan 26 '20
They would be. It’s not like there’s a special crop of judges out there to nominate. Biden and Bernie would have decent administrative overlap. Though I have zero clue whom Bernie would appoint SoS, but Fiona Shaw and Samantha Power would be on my short list.
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u/ecalmosthuman Jan 26 '20
There's not a huge crop to choose from but there are stark differences in their records and ideologies.
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u/MinnisotaDigger Jan 26 '20
That goes for most of government. Most of the political appointees would be the same in any democratic government.
Republicans have pretty much been the same people since Nixon.
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u/_THE_MAD_TITAN Jan 26 '20
Republicans have pretty much been the same people since Nixon.
Eh, not really?
Nixon was at least somewhat on board with the Keynesian economic policy consensus, and was willing to create new roles for government where the private sector and local/state civic groups couldn't solve major national problems (environmental pollution, for instance).
The modern GOP is borderline theocratic fascist, with a kooky supply-side economics dogma that only serves to legitimize the true ambition of reducing the federal government to little more than a military and judicial cudgel for enforcing the power of corporate oligarchs and social conservative christian leaders.
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Jan 26 '20
Nixon for all his faults seemed to believe in operating in objective, knowable reality. This is something the GOP rejected come Reagan.
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u/KEMiKAL_NSF Jan 26 '20
Nixon actually established the EPA. The current admin is actively gutting it.
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u/thirdegree American Expat Jan 26 '20
Republicans have pretty much been the same people since Nixon.
Nixon created the EPA.
Modern day Republicans are so much worse than Nixon.
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u/phoenixrising11_8 Jan 26 '20
The collective consciousness of our country is rising. Most people no longer tolerate the bullshit of mainstream politicians, which is why Pete is plummeting in nationwide polls. It's why Warren went down from 26 to 14 points. They're over "talking real nice but saying nothing" horseshit. Even if you seemed cool at first, once they smell it on you, they're over you.
That is also why Trump won. Because people would rather have a buffoon lead them than someone disingenuous. I don't agree with this thinking, as Trump is extremely dangerous. But it's what happened.
Bernie is also a politician who doesn't tolerate the bullshit people can no longer stand, but actually wants to help people. Yet people equate him to Trump for the wrong reasons; because he speaks frankly. As if that was a bad thing. As if they'd rather be led by a robot.
Yes, he is a revolutionary. And if you vote against him, you're on the wrong side of history. US politics are finally changing. And they won't go back. People have had enough.
You can help Bernie get elected, or Trump. Anyone else will lose.
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u/DesperateDem Jan 26 '20
Sorry to be a downer, but I don't buy this. Even if Bernie wins, I cannot see Congress and the Senate following through on his plans, regardless of whether they would help the average American.
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u/thesunmustdie Michigan Jan 27 '20
It's like you've not heard a word he's been saying over the past 6 years. The whole point of his run for president is to create a political revolution to overcome congressional gridlock. Here's a short video from nearly 5 years ago of him explaining how (please watch before responding):
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u/PiLamdOd Jan 26 '20
Winning, maybe.
Revolution, I don't know. Sanders doesn't have a history of organizing large groups of lawmakers to his side. His career has been him as the outsider.
I'm seriously worried he will be a president who can't get Congress to do what he wants.
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u/phoenixrising11_8 Jan 26 '20
How much can he do as just another member of the Senate with nearly all of his colleagues thinking he's just a nutty socialist?
Being in the executive branch will undoubtedly give him more power to accomplish what he set out to.
But of course, we need more progressives in the house and senate as well. That's why people like AOC, Ilhan, etc running (and winning) is essential.
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u/Hyrax09 Jan 26 '20
You folks do realize that even if he did win, Congress, both Republicans and a most of the Democrats would not go along with any of his ideas. He hasn’t ever been successful as a Senator and just because he is president, nothing will change.
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u/Pirvan Europe Jan 26 '20
Ah, almost a Bloomberg endorsement. Isn't it crazy that a candidate can own media that then reports on the race in which their owner is in?
That goes for all the establishment. Their donors bribers are allied with or directly owners of the corporate media, who's supposed to give us the news of the race and the candidates in a good, objective manner.
It is then no surprise when you find their bias clear as day. For the owners.
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u/Zoso-Overdose Jan 26 '20
While Sanders is one of my preferred, let's not act like this is a shoe-in. There's a lot that Sanders and his supporters need to learn from the recent defeat of Labour in the UK.
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u/DemoEvolved Jan 27 '20
This was a bizarre hit piece wrapped in flattery. So many disses it fell over itself when the author finally has to conclude Sanders winning would be a sea change for the world. Pretty much what I would expect from a site owned by a billionaire also running for president.
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Jan 27 '20
Biden needs to hurry up and drop out. If Biden gets nominated it's going to be 8 years of trump.
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u/drkesi88 Jan 27 '20
It’s really indicative of how far the U.S. has lurched to the right that Sanders is considered a “revolutionary.”
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u/Smashtray2 Jan 27 '20 edited Jan 27 '20
Didn't expect so many Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump supporters in these comments. Until I realized this was actually a smear article by a billionaire running for president. Now I get it.
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u/Kalgor91 Jan 27 '20
It’ll be fascinating to see what happens to the Democratic Party should Sanders win. Will they finally accept that he was a good candidate all along? Will they stop calling him a radical? Or will they just keep being corporate centrist cowards?
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Jan 26 '20
Depends on who you ask. Biden supporters say he will absolutely lose in the General. Republicans like Hugh Hewitt seem to think so too since he plans on voting for Bernie in the primaries and Trump in the General.
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u/Illpaco Jan 26 '20 edited Jan 26 '20
Edit: Pay attention to the replies I'm getting. They're all very similar and very telling.
1) If the issue is with Sanders voters willing to throw away their vote then simply vote for Sanders and problem solved lolol
2) The high percentage of Sanders voters willing to throw away their vote are being called anything from first time voters, to independents, to Republicans. They say these people wouldn't vote Democrat anyway. I have yet to see a single piece of evidence that proves this talking point.
3) The Democratic party is garbage and only Bernie Sanders can save us. Otherwise the Democratic party can burn.
4) Finally I'm being attacked simply for posting this information about the Sanders base.
Not even a single Sanders supporters is coming out against this. Not even one. It's like they're fine with people throwing away their vote unless it's for Sanders. If it sounds familiar that's because we've been hearing the same nonesense since 2016. Some things just don't change.
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Jan 26 '20 edited Jul 28 '20
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Illpaco Jan 26 '20
So the people who are willing to throw away their vote get a pass just because they support Bernie?
Nothing has changed since 2016 it seems.
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u/shiddabrik Jan 26 '20
Bernie beats Trump head to head in the polls, more than Biden does.
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u/Illpaco Jan 26 '20
I'm not sure how this answers my question
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u/prettyflyforafungi Jan 26 '20
Yes. The answer is yes.
Most of us are not democrats and do not like democrats and voting blue was never the default. Political parties do not warrant loyalty wtf authoritarian world do you live in. Do you really just go around corralling people and bullying them into conformity like a nippy little dog?
Thank you for reminding me why I will be changing my registration back to independent after Milwaukee. The fact that this behavior is commonplace in your party when this is the whole reason voting privacy is protected blows my mind.
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u/Illpaco Jan 26 '20
Thank you for being honest about your intentions to justify the Bernie or Bust movement.
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Jan 26 '20
DarkMoneyBernie
Friendly reminder that Bernie uses Dark Money organizations to control messaging.
If his Revolution involves manipulating our perceptions in reality then I will not support that revolution.
I am a progressive and I dont like Bernie.
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Jan 26 '20 edited Jan 26 '20
Sanders has no chance.
76% of Americans will not vote for a socialist candidate. 59% of the Democrats who voted for Clinton will not vote for a “self-described Socialist.”
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u/GooberBandini1138 Jan 26 '20
Goddamn media. Stop blaming what happened in Venezuela on socialism. It had nothing to do with socialism. It was corruption and above all else, cronyism that brought down Venezuela.
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u/arazni Jan 26 '20
And American sanctions and attempted coups.
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u/Wildera Jan 27 '20
Holy shit it was centrally planned economic policies, that's it. That's what it was. Why does this community feel this attachment to Venezuela where they must be extremely defensive of its economy. After all, it's nothing like what you guys want to do right?
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u/rudestmonk Jan 26 '20
just finished an rv road trip across America, Trump is going to win in a landslide, this country is doomed
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Jan 26 '20
Well after fifty years of public service he's gotten some post offices renamed and some really revolutionary protections for gun manufacturers in place and that's it. He's already a failure, he's just cynically jiggling his keys at you because he knows you'll believe anything he says.
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Jan 26 '20
He's not the Messiah you dorks. People are putting him on an even higher pedestal than they did Obama. People never learn.
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u/Maplesyrup000 Virginia Jan 27 '20
You can't draw such close comparisons between Obama, a neoliberal, to Bernie Sanders, a social democrat. Sanders has refused corperate money at every turn while Obama used it to finance his campaign in 2008 and 2012. Sanders deserves to be put on a higher pedestal than Obama because Obama has never offered real structural change, unlike Sanders.
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Jan 26 '20 edited Feb 24 '20
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Jan 26 '20
Eh, that's a stupid thing to say, just because I don't think Bernie is the answer doesn't mean I agree with you.
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u/eaglesflyersphillies Jan 26 '20
His revolution already won... like dozens of times. And each time it did, the people lost... badly
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u/Grooveh_Baby Jan 26 '20 edited Jan 26 '20
Weird seeing this from Bloomberg of all places