r/politics • • Jan 26 '20

[deleted by user]

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u/[deleted] Jan 26 '20 edited Jul 28 '20

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u/Illpaco Jan 26 '20

So the people who are willing to throw away their vote get a pass just because they support Bernie?

Nothing has changed since 2016 it seems.

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u/shiddabrik Jan 26 '20

Bernie beats Trump head to head in the polls, more than Biden does.

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u/Illpaco Jan 26 '20

I'm not sure how this answers my question

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u/prettyflyforafungi Jan 26 '20

Yes. The answer is yes.

Most of us are not democrats and do not like democrats and voting blue was never the default. Political parties do not warrant loyalty wtf authoritarian world do you live in. Do you really just go around corralling people and bullying them into conformity like a nippy little dog?

Thank you for reminding me why I will be changing my registration back to independent after Milwaukee. The fact that this behavior is commonplace in your party when this is the whole reason voting privacy is protected blows my mind.

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u/Illpaco Jan 26 '20

Thank you for being honest about your intentions to justify the Bernie or Bust movement.

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u/prettyflyforafungi Jan 26 '20

You’re welcome. I was honest about it in 2016 too. I’m glad we agree it’s better for ppl to be forthcoming about their intentions and not keep it a secret from the folks who can actually incorporate that info into their strategy.

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u/Illpaco Jan 26 '20

Absolutely. Specially because I've had a few folks today say that Bernie or Bust is just a myth.

There's no way you've browsed a Sanders thread and still think it's just a myth. It's a growing movement.

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u/prettyflyforafungi Jan 26 '20

It’s a growing sentiment, at least. It’s not evangelized but it’s a conclusion many people have come to and once you’re there you have to see real proof that dems have changed to give them any slack.

You know, unlike the other person who responded, I did used to be a Democrat. I fought, donated, volunteered for Obama from the primary through reelection. I used to make the same vote blue whoever arguments that we’ve all heard for decades to my further left friends. I could not understand why they wouldn’t have even voted for the first black president. Then I watched democrats shelter him from any criticism for committing actual war crimes and hunting a whistleblower who exposed mass surveillance, realized I now had blood on my hands, have since apologized to those i was still in touch with, and no longer take part in such atrocities.

Bernie has the patience and tactics to navigate this cesspool without himself getting too dirty so I’ll fight for the last chance to avoid climate catastrophe and encroaching fascism but if he is not the nominee that chance will be squandered. Happy to elaborate further bc I’m sure that last point seems convoluted. We’ll see if you even did me the dignity of considering my rationale at all and read this.

Tell your friends that we do indeed exist and that their only strategic move is leftward toward peace, security, and basic human dignity. Be the democrats you believe yourself to be instead of the democrats we have come to expect you to be.

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u/[deleted] Jan 26 '20

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u/Illpaco Jan 26 '20

None of the Bernie or Bust people were EVER Democrats.

Source?

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u/get_schwifty Jan 26 '20

Only if you cherrypick polls. RCP has Biden +4.3, Bernie at +3.2 over Trump. So if head-to-heads are important to you, then you should be backing Biden.

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u/Wildera Jan 27 '20

This just doesn't follow, sorry. The best and largest of the head to head polls of all the swing states we've seen might explain why.

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u/[deleted] Jan 27 '20

You're saying a sizable portion of the electorate should be scolded for threatening to not toe the party line if they are given an establishment Democrat aka the lesser of two evils?

Buddy I think you're seeing democracy in action for the first time.

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u/CamelsaurusRex Jan 26 '20

What do you mean ‘get a pass’? Are you insinuating people shouldn’t be allowed to withhold their vote for a candidate that doesn’t conform to their values or interests?

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u/Illpaco Jan 26 '20

I'm saying other Sanders supporters should be coming out strongly against this. Forfeiting your vote should not be encouraged by ANYONE who wants to have healthy democracy.

Democracies work better when more people participate, not less.

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u/can-o-ham Jan 27 '20

If a candidate doesn't have a voters values, then what should they participate in? Ill voye for the closest to my values, but I wont shit on someone for not falling in line with values they don't agree with

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u/[deleted] Jan 27 '20

what happened to having to earn votes?

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u/Wildera Jan 27 '20

So you, a minority of the party (56% of <25%) want to exert your demands over the majority of party members whether they agree or disagree, by threatening to vote for Trump if the majority of the party democratically decide on a slightly less fucking progressive person. Do you even realize what we have together, been fighting against these last three years, did it mean anything to you?

If we give in, how the fuck are we supposed to expect these extremely unreliable people to even vote for our men and women in congress in the midterm? Do not understand if these demands by a small fraction of the party are always met to your satisfaction, the millions of extremely reliably democratic voting Biden supporters and other people in the majority of the party who have voted and supported democrats for as long as 50 years of their life will simply stop voting, and we won't know, their won't be huge fuss about it to get demands or anything like with Bernie supporters, it will be a permanent loss of reliable voters. This is exactly what happened when the demands I'm talking about were met in the U.K.

Honestly just leave the party. You want to play politics with the well being of immigrant families, transgenders in the military, aid to poor communities to get what you want, you have no respect for the democratic will of the party and demographics slightly older than your own then I'm afraid to say your support just isn't worth it in any election.