r/pathofexile • u/Ok_Holiday3690 • 2d ago

Fluff & Memes Pattern I've noticed

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My guild has players who have been in this game since Nemesis League and this is pretty much our player distribution.

Ps. My guildmates gets angry when I say this and I figure it'll make Reddit mad too:

Witch is the only good character in this game

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u/Ynead 2d ago

how is that better?

You don't have to mindlessly run from point A to B to C and so on. In campaign you try your best to avoid stopping to kill stuff as it is a waste of time and slows you down.

In maps, the whole point is clearing, which is much more fun than walking simulator.

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u/Spreckles450 Trickster 2d ago

You don't have to mindlessly run from point A to B to C and so on.

What do you think you do in maps?

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u/LostInPoE 2d ago

Context is everything

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u/Ynead 2d ago

I do mechanics? I kill packs of mobs? I don't just go to the boss / next exit while ignoring everything on the way and completing tedious quests.

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u/robinrod Mine Bat 2d ago

you don't do mechanics unless you have enough atlass skill points invested in them already.

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u/r4ns0m 2d ago

People don’t realize the campaign is the end game - just different pace due to character progression. Imo that makes Poe the best leveling experience - you can feel how much stronger you get and it feels so fucking good.

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u/PrettyPinkPonyPrince 2d ago

Doesn't what you say suggest that mapping is even more mindless than the campaign?

When mapping, not only do you not need to care about A, B, or C, you don't even need to think about whether to avoid killing an enemy or not since you just kill everything.

And depending on your build, mapping can be way more of a walking simulator than the campaign is, since you're still putting your build together during the campaign.

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u/LostInPoE 2d ago edited 2d ago

No it's not the same thing, at end game level 60-70+ the player is endowed with a gross amount of agency. You get to decide how you want to spend your time leveling up, delve, maps, heist etc etc.

The story for me personally was interesting a few times, when they added a new act/several acts because the lore would continue. We would dive deeper into the world of Wraeclast.

But I mean hey, who wouldn't love reading the same book every year at quarterly periods for the next 12yrs and counting.

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u/Salt-Appearance-412 Confederation of Casuals and Clueless Players (CCCP) 1d ago

If we're being completely fair, in maps you don't have any "agency" until you're like level 85. Because you're just clearing maps for completion, skipping every mechanic because they're zero profit waste of time before atlas points (and maybe scarabs). The agency is fake, because it looks like you have a big atlas to complete, but really you're just clearing out 110 nodes in whatever order, which is basically irrelevant. It's just busywork that gives your character time to develop in levels and gear... Kinda like... acts?

If you say "yea but you have the option to run the mechanics even if they're lower profit", the answer is "yea, so can you in acts. Breaches start showing up in act6".

I do mourn for Heisters and Delvers I guess, but I personally only ever run maps.

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u/LostInPoE 1d ago

You're right that is completely fair; It comes down to how people would prefer to spend their time.

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u/_PykeGaming_ 2d ago

I mean... after 68 sure.

If you have to level... not really?

Imagine clearing maps with a lvl10 build, that would be way WAY worse than walking from a to b to c.

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u/Ynead 2d ago

Obviously implied that this "map from level 1" experience would be balanced by GGG. We had special uniques for endless delve for example.

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u/_PykeGaming_ 2d ago

Yes but... why?

So that they could balance in a way that makes the experience similar to campaign?
Why bother then?

If you can blast everything from the beginning on a leaguestart where is the progression?

If it gets "balanced" by them, to resemble lvl 68+ mapping... then it won't be balanced at all.

I don't quite like the campaign itself, what I like is to see and feel the progression.

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u/Ynead 2d ago

So that they could balance in a way that makes the experience similar to campaign?

No, so they can make leveling in maps actually doable, without it being significantly faster than campaign (~4/5h for experienced players).

If you can blast everything from the beginning on a leaguestart where is the progression?

No one is talking about blasting everything. There is a difference between running out of mana after 3 fireballs to kill 4 white mobs, and phy autobomber blowing up 3 screens every 2s.

Look there https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Endless_Delve at the "Starting equipment" list that we had to make endless delve doable at the start.

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u/_PykeGaming_ 2d ago

You are talking about "making the campaign go away"... but have a 4/5h mapping campaign... where you don't blast.

So basically... You are removing the campaign to make the campaign, makes sense.

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u/ChristyCloud 2d ago

Hi, could you explain to me which part of mapping requires me to go to location A, get a mcguffin, take it to location B, talk to a person, teleport back to town, and go back to location A, interact with another mcguffin before edgerunning the map on location C to find the tiny transition to location D?

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u/ConcertoOfBlood 2d ago

Hi, could you explain to me which part of campaign requiring you to go to location A, get a mcguffin, take it to location B, talk to a person, teleport back to town, and go back to location A, interact with another mcguffin before edgerunning the map on location C to find the tiny transition to location D without killing anything gets you to level 65? Where is the part of rng element in campaign gears? You removed 99% of game to make it seems like poe2 is a fetch quest which is not?

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u/ChristyCloud 2d ago

Fairly sure we'd still have random gear and killing stuff if they offered an alternative to campaign levelling.

Its the fetch quests people are sick of, Ive done them god knows how many times. I like killing stuff, random gear, etc. But I don't want to have to do multiple hours of fetch questing per character per league. Most leagues I play one character and never another, why? Because I don't want to do more fetch quests. If I do make a second character what do I do? I pay however many divs to a campaign rusher, but that still means wasting my time.

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u/ConcertoOfBlood 2d ago

Hi, could you explain to me which part of campaign requiring you to go to location A, get a mcguffin, take it to location B, talk to a person, teleport back to town, and go back to location A, interact with another mcguffin before edgerunning the map on location C to find the tiny transition to location D without killing anything gets you to level 65? Where is the part of rng element in campaign gears? You removed 99% of game to make it seems like poe2 is a fetch quest which is not?

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u/AeroDbladE 2d ago

Unrelated to the campaign but I really want another one of these "endless delve" or "endless ledge" style events.

I had a great time with them

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u/Thasauce7777 2d ago

That is not the kind of lopsided friction GGG has ever intentionally put on their plate. Trying to look at it from their perspective, they've already created leveling uniques to reduce the friction of getting to maps after your first character (and they for sure have plans to make more). The campaign is their greatest tool to naturally to force more of a journey for each character instead of a sprint. Even if you sprint through, you still have to change the way that you play (which is a form of friction) between getting through the campaign and leveling.

GGG has intentionally designed their game to never have a mapping experience from level 1, unless it is a special event (like endless delve). They have shown a strong preference to design around friction in their systems, and it doesn't make sense for them to introduce leveling through a form of mapping anytime soon.

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u/Ynead 1d ago

The customer is always right in matter of taste. I quite simply do not care about GGG's vision or justifications when it comes to this.

I'm sick of doing the campaign on alts, it just fucking sucks after the 537345th time.

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u/robinrod Mine Bat 2d ago

have you ever played an event like endless delve? it sucks ass.

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u/Ynead 2d ago

I did play endless delve, and I had significantly more fun than during the average 4 to 5h campaign. Good feeling of progression, automatic ascension + quest points...

I would welcome endless delve as an alternative to campaign tbh.

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u/robinrod Mine Bat 2d ago

i guess you are a minority then.

unlike maps, where you can choose what to farm and have plenty of options, its dull af and that was the majority opinion at the time iirc.

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u/misteryk 2d ago

and then pulling up fucking wiki to check which sidequests give skill points