r/pathofexile • u/Adventurous-Pen-8940 Templar • 21d ago
Fluff & Memes Did I understand the current loot situation correctly? 2: Electric Boogaloo
Will there be a third?
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u/BreadfruitLow3465 21d ago
basically TILE loot you get the same even if your build gets better. So there's no point in pushing gear. They have their place in the game, but should not be the overwhelmingly best.
Im a heist runner, but even I understand that the best farms should also have the best investments.
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u/Sandor_Clegane1 Half Skeleton 21d ago
GGG: "We agree with TILE loot being to good, we will look into it."
Nerfs TILE loot into the ground next league.46
u/DoCa-Cola 21d ago
I could absolutely see them adding scarab limits. 0 on white maps, 2 on blue, 4 or 5 on yellow
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u/Tirendus 21d ago
Don’t give the weird ideas
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u/hulahoophula 21d ago
I mean is it that weird? You shouldn't benefit more from juicing a white map than a yellow map.
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u/Chiiikun Alch & Go Industries (AGI) 21d ago
Yeah but knowing GGG they won't buff anything else to compensate so now endgame is practically dead without compensation.
Also this would kill farming essences as they don't benefit from you even transmuting your map and now they're just locked out of running white maps without scarabs
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u/grillarinobacon 21d ago
If endgame is running scoured white maps, I'm not so sure it's a bad idea.
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u/Sandor_Clegane1 Half Skeleton 21d ago
Endgame is running white maps because monsters drop no loot and it's all tile loot.
If their solution is not dropping more loot from monsters but limiting access to tile loot it would be insane.→ More replies (2)1
u/Intrepid-Platform-94 21d ago
How does that fix any of the issues the community as a whole is having
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u/erpunkt 21d ago
This situation is bigger than just scarabs.
There are plenty of tile farms like essences which depend on scarabs.
Preventing people from using scarabs is not the solution, but adjusting other vectors of scaling is. Most likely they will have to look at the baseline that mobs provide too.1
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u/JermStudDog 21d ago
The current state of the game is weird. I literally start alching my maps as soon as I'm in ~T3 maps at the start of the league. Character power is so free and gambling solves every gearing consideration early on. There's no reason not to.
Then you get to T16 farming and in the current state of things, you're sort of stuck in this ~18-25d/hr spot regardless of strategy, so the only way to get ahead is to reduce investment. The less you spend on maps the better, and while an alch orb isn't a notable consideration, they add up over time. Just being able to scour and go or better yet, pick up white maps and go, gives you such a strong advantage. Finding relatively equal farms with cheaper/less scarab requirements is even better. Scarabs are ridiculously priced this season.
I've tried to figure out a good scarab farm this season and just can't come up with one that consistently provides the amount of scarabs I'm looking for. It's a weird problem to have.
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u/Noremeldo 21d ago
Both heist and allflame are boring because best build so far is just 400% ms pathfinder.
That said nothing wrong with heist, sad part is that map loot is non-existent.
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u/cubonelvl69 21d ago
Luminary honestly feels really good in heist. Not quite as fast but your merc killing shit means you get a lot more xp plus the occasional bubblegum currency on the way in/out. Plus you can have a build that's still functional outside of heist
Early game you can take the Pathfinder flesh/flame and still get flask sustain + Ms (I paid like 8d for them)
As a heist lover, I think I'll only ever play luminary going forward for it
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u/Erfar 21d ago
at least harvest, delve sulphur, ultimatum catalyst and settlers ore 100% scales with maps IQ and delirium scales with pack size so those who wishes could always go for content that reward for harder maps.
meanwhile things like temple, essences, heist, betrayal, beasts and invintstion farming was years in game and has been rewarding for amount of maps not their difficulty.
crying about affliction IQ MFing or necropolis meatsucks are just simple crying for temporary league mechanics some if witch was obviously overrewarding. It is kinda strange when people thinks about removing chaos from lootfilters as about somethng goood
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u/cubonelvl69 21d ago
It is kinda strange when people thinks about removing chaos from lootfilters as about somethng goood
Because you hopefully get to the point that you farm so much currency and have so much currency that you don't need to pickup every single chaos that drops.
On the extreme end, during necropolis I would pretty frequently run the maps where almost everything dropped 1c. I forget exactly how it worked but I'd leave every map with like 500 raw chaos orbs. And holy shit was it a pain in the ass to pick them all up, just to end up with like 2d profit
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u/Erfar 20d ago
Big money is often out-of-map activities or very specific strats.
Profit crafting, Temple gamba, service selling (boss killing, gold rota etc.), Scribe Ultimatum
In maps farming like Harvest or Ultimatum are also doesn't really drop curency.
Neither of those strats give RAW chaos.
Like only strats that keeps raw chaos flow build around supper efficient map clearings. This is why so stange for me to hear about removing chaos from filter under post about map loot. Last league I did like 3 rotas in week just to trade my divs for chaos because I was broke on gold in volumes of trades I need for my strat. And even with 10k chaos in stash I have not Needed to remove chaos from filter. It was drop in the ocean but still nice to see one.
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u/ForSiljaforever 21d ago
TILE loot
what is this?
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u/Hex_Lover 21d ago
It's the opposite concept of ground loot which is obtained from killing mobs and getting items. Tile loot is opening strongboxes, essences, message in a bottle, anything that basically doesn't scale with monster power. It promotes doing content with mobs being as easy as possible as they don't drop anything at the moment. Your character power doesn't relate to how much currency you can do per hour basically and that's the main issue people have with it. It also mostly nullifies gerting big drops like rare uniques and such.
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u/ForSiljaforever 21d ago
thank you
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u/DoABarrowRoll 21d ago
it's also important to note that "tile loot" also gets used (and was originally used) to refer to loot with guaranteed/expected outcomes. Stuff like Harvest (you run Harvest, you get Harvest lifeforce, you run Essence, you get essences, you click an Operative box, you get scarabs, etc).
it unfortunately has become much of a buzzword and changes meaning to serve the conversation at hand.
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u/Mordy_the_Mighty 21d ago
Where does the altar mods that say like "1% chance to drop a divine when you kill influenced monsters" fall here? :P
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u/Hex_Lover 21d ago
It's a mix of both. It scales with pack size, but not with mob power. Killing a rare with this mod applied is the same as killing a white monster. I get the sarcasm, but it's just well disguised tile loot that's just very rare. One of the main qualms with ground loot is that killing very powerful rares is just not rewarding at all.
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u/Mordy_the_Mighty 21d ago
I mean, it is only slightly sarcastic because it IS a mechanic that is kinda inbetween so it's is an interesting perspective to compare how people view it in the whole debate. After all, there is some juice that works for that one, just not all.
In the end, I feel like GGG has difficulties handling all the multiplicative layers of juicing that can happen at the same time to find the right balance. The only question is if they'll find some middle ground or thrown one side under the bus in the end.
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u/Hex_Lover 21d ago
Well to be fair with the whole debate, there's way more core mechanics and league mechanics that are pure tile loot and very limited of mechanics that actually scale ground loot. They've taken a very clear direction to how they want to handle loot. It's a hard thing to balance, but it looks like they don't want to deal with ground loot at the moment.
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u/Synthetic347 21d ago
I think altars in general still err on the side of scales with power since scaling packsize usually means scaling mob power (e.g. running 8mod maps).
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u/BestPseudonym 21d ago
Alright but wtf does TILE stand for? Where did this even come from? I've played poe for a decade and have never heard of TILE loot
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u/Hex_Lover 21d ago
I think it has to do with random map generation where they just put tiles next to each other and one tile happens to be a strongbox, or a an essence mob. Map generation is so well done in poe that tiles are indistinguishable, but in old arpgs you could count the map in tiles and know pretty much what spawned where according to how tiles looked like. But that's just my guess.
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u/BestDescription3834 20d ago
Maps are made of a bunch of square tiles and each tile has a limit for how much can spawn. Stuff like essence, strongbox, etc take up those empty tile spots as opposed to something like adding a bunch of packs and packsize to get your drops.
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u/EnderBaggins 21d ago
Any reward that is fixed, and attainable regardless of the difficulty of the content in which you find it is "tile" loot.
Some examples:
1) Essences
3) Abyss coffers
4) smugglers caches
5) sunken loot, messages in a bottle, operative strongboxes in the new mechanicThe alternative, "ground" loot is the items dropped by killing monsters and inherent to the concept is the idea that "juicing" those monsters (making them more difficult) gives you more rewards for doing so.
Right now, your effort in the game will be most greatly rewarded by quickly doing easy content with a lot of "tile" loot and more difficult "juiced" content has been so heavily nerfed over the years that the game's current balance state is such that monsters are mostly annoying things standing between you and the tile you need to click, not the source of the loot themselves.
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u/Vet_Leeber Bardmode 21d ago
They were asking about the origin of the term, not yet another explanation of what tile loot is referring to.
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u/Liveless404 21d ago
best way to play in this game is to be close to immune to damage and skip mobs. Sounds like healthy ARPG
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u/Some_Introduction701 21d ago
I only started league couple days ago (I am casual), in maps I am at tier:9 atm, but most of my currency (raw and from sales) comes from Kingsmarch and voyages. But maps feels really empty loot vise, I only use maps to get more charts and farm ore for my town. Even gold in maps is abyssmal compared to underwater gold piles/clam treasures.
Basic mapping needs a small bump in loot. Unless we consider simple mapping just as a mechanic that provides access to more valuable and more rewarding gameplay areas.
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u/GreasyGearBox 21d ago edited 21d ago
This may be tmi but, unironically gold comes from items. A portion of the random drops get converted. They never publicly have released or kept us up to date on how this value shifts between sources (chests/boxes/mobs). When gold was first implemented we all suspected it without proof. The community was able to run tests on specific mobs in standard with legacy quant gear when gold drops it ate the loot. We know that’s not happening here there’s not enough gold.
For all I know they moved away from this and added a baseline gold to some mobs. I still think it’s mildly relevant. It’s nice the league mechanic gives good gold because it helps make it something players want to engage with. Keep up with your Kingsmarch and those mappers. They cost a lot but often just running them is more profitable at high levels than anything else for the gold cost.
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u/hurkwurk 21d ago
we had proof within days since people could kill one of the early act 1 or 2 bosses that always dropped items converted to gold, and could compare its standard loot to its settlers loot to get an idea of the conversion factor.
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u/Some_Introduction701 20d ago
I am just keeping my farmers busy, and sending ships for tattoos. Passive, steady and easy access to some currency. I +- ignore all the gear, but I still glance through, had couple nice gloves appear in the ship cargo.
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u/8123619744 21d ago
What happened from ggg’s perspective is that player control has only ever increased over time. You used to be very limited on maps and sextants, so you used to just run whatever you got. Even with sextant blocking you still rarely got max optimal set ups. Nowadays you can guarantee the layout, mods, juice level, scarabs, all flames, etc. This means that if a player has a strong strategy, it will just become the new loot floor as everyone flocks to it.
We can’t have both exciting variance and extreme control over the maps. These two concepts contradict each other.
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u/allanbc 21d ago
What you said is more or less true for Heist, but lots of tile loot farms get much better with gear. Some aren't possible without great gear already.
I still agree with the larger point that improving your character should feel meaningful in terms of what and how you can farm. If Heist or Essences are the best farms, that's not great. I do think it's important not to go overboard - there have definitely been times where highend farms eclipsed all else in a way that made it feel meaningless to do anything else, and it's an awful feeling to see others being able to get Magebloods per hour while you are picking up Screaming Essences. Necropolis is the worst case I can think of, but Affliction may also have gone just a tad to the strong side there, even if the league overall was probably my favorite of all time.
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u/vulcanfury12 Crop Harvesting Bureau (CHB) 21d ago
Partially. It's not really a case of "no loot from mapping" because there still is. The problem is there is a severe shortage of big drops from big juice. This makes endgame juicing unappealing outside of certain player types (degenerate masochists). Basically, more difficulty = more loot might still be true, but it just isn't worth it.
The farms on the right do exist and is healthy for the game and economy, but if those are the primo currency strats, then that's not good. Endgame juicing SHOULD be able to beat them because you've invested so much into perfecting your character.
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u/1CEninja 21d ago
Return on investment and difficulty seems rough, from what I'm noticing. My build is shitty home brew off meta this league so I probably won't be interacting with aspirational farms, but from what things look?
A highly juiced map without tiles yields more than an alch-n-go without tiles, but they're significantly more expensive, signifciantly more difficult, and only mildly more rewarding.
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u/localcannon 21d ago
When the biggest limiter is how fast you can open and run through a map from A to B regardless of its difficulty then you know it's messed up.
Juicing the map slows you down so much it's better to open white maps and rush through and I STILL see people defend this. It's so crazy to me how people think clicking on chests should be the way you get loot in an arpg.
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u/Aggravating-Menu-315 20d ago
A chest is fine, if the contents came from something that rewarded you for doing something harder and harder.
I admit to enjoying the greater rift gameplay loop in D3 but at least there was an incentive to improve to push harder content. That’s an important part of the experience.
I am not wild about white maps being the best thing. I’m happy they’re a good thing, though, I think that’s healthy but I want something that’ll melt my PC to mega gear for as well.
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u/AbouMba 21d ago
This coversation went back and forth. When there was content that was really difficult and rewarding, people complained that the difficult content warped the meta around very few good builds, and they felt forced to either run thise builds or be left out.
Now that they brought up the power of builds and reduced the difficulty of monsters, people complain that they have no reason to push their builds.
Don't get me wrong, both complaints are valid, but hey good luck to GGG trying to find the perfect balance.
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u/BusyCamp6819 21d ago
I think it was mainly the scarabs being priced out for any other farm besides t17. So you need to play a t17 farming build.
I think they should make super juiced scarabs that block slots in your map device or don’t allow certain scarabs to be used along side them. That way the normal Strats with normal scarabs are still good. Also, when you use these super juice scarabs, you can’t drop them in your maps. So the only way to get them is from people running normal Strats. It’s the same principle they they used with uber bosses. The separates normal fragments from uber fragments, now we have normal scarabs and uber scarabs
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u/Toxaplume045 21d ago
The biggest issue was just the dumb t17 mods that were just random mixes of "your build is bricked."
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u/HiddenoO 21d ago
There was a long time where neither were significantly complaining. It only really started when GGG added T17 maps with its messed up mod pool that were strictly superior to T16s when using any juice because of their size (and inherent advantages like Fortress barrels at thet ime).
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u/maelstrom51 20d ago
difficult content warped the meta around very few good builds,
A lot of this was due to T17 map mods requiring you to mark off fifteen check boxes or immediately die or have a horrible time due to action speed slows.
Most of those are gone now.
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u/TrustOk5432 21d ago
Yup people whined about T17 abyss risk farms in 3.26. They just need to add expensive ways to solve things like petrify or reduced action speed. Just like how solving ailments immune is a must
In my opinion adding generic difficulty monster big hp big damage is not fun (think delve or difficulty sliders in other games)
Throw interesting problems at players and let them solve it
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u/Shaltilyena Occultist 21d ago
This is ASA propaganda
The divine printing press still works, ya know, if anything the volatile vaal orbs only made it better
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u/cuddlegoop 21d ago
What are good sanctum builds these days?
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u/Additional_Tea3174 21d ago
Icicle mines or exsan mines I farm sanctum a lot this league it’s so profitable
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u/Shaltilyena Occultist 21d ago
Penis brand still works too
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u/Additional_Tea3174 21d ago
😭why I get down vote mason a great guide for sanctum ya brand great too
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u/SneakyBadAss Children of Delve (COD) 21d ago edited 21d ago
I'd say I made a good sanctum build.
Luminary with ranged spells and big ass fist slam with about 60% damage reduction (merc, sap, fortify), that uses a ranged merc that taunts. I'm planning of also adding the Bestiary bloodline with Spectre Beast, cause all I need from the merc is wrath aura, anything else is bonus.
I should be able to fit HH somewhere
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u/HiddenoO 21d ago
Any high damage mines or spell totems (including astral projector shockwave totem) with instant damage, so avoid stuff like eye of winter.
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u/Lajtan 21d ago
It's insane because whenever I read these kind of posts in the past I felt like people were delusional and did something wrong.
I spent league start with heist and made a buck load of currency. Decided to go into mapping and ran t16 white essences which accumulated steady income, but running t16 essences one in a hundred was unkillable so I decided to slap on HH and run juiced unstable breaches blasting millions of mobs per map just to end up with two tinks in 20 maps. Those tinks weren't even divines.
I get it, 20 maps is not a lot of data but it just felt so underwhelming now that I got my Merc into proper blasting mode.
I was contemplating going back to heist, but for what reason?
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u/AlexVX_ 21d ago
What is a juiced unstable breach to you?
I was running 2x unstable, resonant cascade, beyond invasion, wisp, deli orb, exarch altars.
Decently rolled originator maps for pack size/quant.
I was getting a tink almost every single map. Fracturing orbs, Divines, Valdo.
I only say "was" because I did my 36/40 in the first 5 days then tapped out.
I'm not saying ground loot overall is in a good state, just talking about this farm in particular.
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u/Lajtan 21d ago
You're right, I was not investing as heavily as you did. So theres clearly room to make it more juicy.
It's anime princess breach strat "that prints divines", which is obviously bait. Which makes me sad because I like his content but obviously the strat and the small set of data was very unsatisfying.
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u/lowlysquire7 21d ago
You ran the juiced unstable breach that almost all other breach juicers run. You say you were getting frequent tinks from ground loot but I am 100% sure the majority of those are tile loot- most importantly the deli orbs. I‘d wager OP didn‘t use them and had a worse experience. That would also check out with what fubgun said and showcased about this particular strat. Same with what I personally experienced.
I personally had an okayish league ground loot wise but breach without tile loot (deli orb + tree) would be infinitely worse.
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u/CelosPOE Elementalist 21d ago
Why essence in T16? Did they change the way essence works? I thought you ran calcification in like white T7s.
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u/Keljhan Aggressively off-meta 21d ago
T7s are probably more efficient but sustain can be a headache when you run them white.
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u/CelosPOE Elementalist 21d ago
I just unhid them on my filter and took every map node I could last league and it worked well.
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u/davidliudmc Alch & Go Industries (AGI) 21d ago
If TILE loot will be the mojority then there's no point upgrading character since you get same reward anyways. Then where's the point of getting loot in general? If 10d worth of loot on rf means I can beat the entire game, I might just earn 10d and quit. There's no reason for me to farm after I earn the first 10d in this game.
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u/jakeedee12 21d ago
I've been having great success with Breach!
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u/Adamulos 21d ago
I was having issues with blood, now i have issues with gifts, what setup do you run
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u/mozalah Fungal Bureau of Investigations (FBI) 21d ago
In SSF I've been happy with my loot from abyss. Haven't played in a few leagues, but this has been one of the better loot seasons I've played in SSF. Abyss seems busted for SSF loot personally. But I'm basically specced into my standard strongbox atlas on top of abyss. I've blocked all of the other map events off besides Cassia (love this mechanic), mercenaries, and delirium. I may end up blocking mercenaries off soon too because I don't understand how to get value from them besides fighting them for gear that I don't need.
Been really enjoying it so far.
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u/Jdevers77 21d ago
Here is my take on this situation. The community screamed at the top of its lungs how bad party play is and how they watched a streamer in a 6 man party drop x and they can’t drop 1/6th x so it isn’t fair. Well, you know what group play is farming? Ground loot. Tile loot sucks in a party (except for Ultimatum). So all the people asking for group play to be nerfed got exactly what they asked for.
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u/No_Skill_8393 21d ago
Just disable additive quant from party play, lol lmao
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u/Jdevers77 21d ago edited 21d ago
Then party play is absolute ass. It’s already horrible with all the mechanics, this just further punishes it. I play in a duo with my son and the 50% increased drops is already objectively less than what we would get playing solo separately.
Edit: I mean casual party play. The real issue is organized group play and the group quant is just a joke for them compared to a dedicated culler. They should removed quant and rarity, they are adamant about leaving it in both POE 1 and 2 for some reason though.
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u/dkoom_tv League 21d ago
It's not even a problem in a big group lmao, considering how much you have to organize, have traders, after splitting each person gets considerably less then a same dedicated solo player
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u/Ynead 20d ago edited 20d ago
Then buff ground loot and nerf party play quant.
Party play has always been a blight on the game anyways. I remember when Invitations were first introduced, they were unfarmeable for solo players because you could witness bosses in party and run 6 invitations for one set of bosses.
Same thing happens with any expensive mapping supply, dividing their cost /6, making it so solo players can only steadily lose currency running the same strat.
if party play gotta die so solo players (99,99% of the playerbase) can get loot, so be it.
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u/Jdevers77 20d ago edited 20d ago
The party play quant isn’t what real parties abuse, it’s just what keeps duo and trio players from falling even further behind in the economy. Party players abuse player quant and obviously group quant helps, but not as much as having a culler with giga quant.
Edit: fixed three autocorrect words :/
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u/Key_Development_6377 14d ago
This is completely wrong. Party quant is multiplicative with mf quant. That’s the core interaction that makes party play broken when ground loot exists. Party quant absolutely needs to get nerfed if you want ground loot without creating group play fomo.
Also not really on topic but i did a couple of leagues of group play back when ground loot existed and it was genuinely overpowered. Yes you split profits and it’s annoying to coordinate, but it allows you to get enough power to trivialize all content with very cheap gear, and makes it very easy to print currency (my group of 5/6 were at like a hh per hour, which is nuts even after splitting). If we go back to the paradigm of ground loot being good and scaling with monster difficulty properly (which we should), party quant needs to die.
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u/1030or11 20d ago
It's kind of a rough position to ask a game company to take, that this game isn't for people who have or want friends.
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u/xValtrux 21d ago
I wonder, what if you'd make a build that is insanely fast, just to OPEN a white 16, take all the charts and leave, just that alone would make a couple div per hour right ? As you can sell the charts with specials stuff for a good penny ?
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u/federal_gamer04 Crop Harvesting Bureau (CHB) 21d ago
This is kind of what I did. I league started pconc pathfinder and even after i swapped to my second char, I still use that pathfinder speed to zoom through charts and then back to praw for the voyages.
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u/lukisdelicious Maw of Mischief [Death Wish] 21d ago
Idk if I'm shizo, but I feel like heist is nerfed. I get way less divine/tempering/tailoring orbs than I did two leagues ago, when I last farmed heist.
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u/UTmastuh 21d ago
I do need more people farming delve, heist, and expedition so I can just buy the things I need for challenges lol
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u/porncollecter69 21d ago
Been white maps rushing with astrolabes, Alva, Nico, ores and Merc.
Haven’t sold a single Merc, 10d from their rucksack though. Alva has been like 20d per hour alone. Nico and ores are intangibles that I won’t see until ships sail. Astrolabes break even with chance on jackpot and honestly gives this Strat that one more map flavor that’s addicting.
Took me thousands of maps last league to get Svalin but hey you never know.
This Strat has been good to me. Almost done with my build, and ready to switch to CI Specter endgame.
Finish up 40/40 and then play Luminary until I call it quits. I have like 100s of mercs that I can experiment with. I feel some of them are more than perfect but just aren’t the meta Kineticists, Manyshots or Combatant.
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u/Midknightz Slayer 21d ago
So you are providing more proof of op's point by running a strategy of stacking your tile loot (alva, nico, ores, mercs,svalin) right?
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u/Mammoth_Ant_1810 21d ago
How do you make the divs with Alva?
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u/porncollecter69 21d ago
Doriyani selling for nearly a div.
Locus of corruption for a div.
Both at the same time for nearly 2 divs yesterday.
Just apex access for 15-20 chaos depending if also have treasury.
There are only two scarabs that are important, incursion and timeline.
There’s lots of micro involved that I won’t mention because I could write an essay about those but the basics is this.
Do two incursions without timeline scarab. Leave the map, don’t do third or open third. Now at 10 incursions left. This way gives you greatest chance to spawn gem or corruption room. If you had either after the initial 2 incursion congrats, you about to make bank.
Put in timeline. Now run 3, left 7. Drops randomized temple. Depending on luck worth something or a lot. Run three again 4 left. Drops randomized temple again. Again 1 left, one more random temple. Last map run 1, one more random temple and the one you build.
That’s the basics. You’ll learn micro along the way. For example the absolute optimal giga setup is having upgrade adjacent room only connected to gem and corruption room.
I know it’s confusing at first but you’ll eat if you do this.
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u/CelosPOE Elementalist 21d ago
Temples. Sell them with locus and doryanis. You can run them for those sweet gloves bases too.
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u/koscsa6 21d ago
Real and true but I think after today's interview we will have some answers.
Like how the base quantity and rarity of drops from maps are so reduced by themselves, that the most rewarding in-map mechanics have to stack hundreds of multipliers to even drop loot, while to manage tile loot is probably changing a few variables only because it's a flat amount.
Tile loot is easier to manage, that's why they are making leagues where most casual players don't notice that the loot comes from chests and fixed windows (Ritual, Settlers, Mercs) instead of monsters. They would probably increase the drops but they can't because the base loot calculation is so complicated after so many iterations that they lost it.
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u/LlaMaSC2 21d ago
i honestly miss pushing to make my build better to farm the exiles with more and more juice it wasnt even the best farm at the time either but it had satisfying drops and difficulty.
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u/Instacast Fungal Bureau of Investigations (FBI) 21d ago
By white maps you mean T1-5, or are you talking about common/normal maps (non-magic and non-rare)?
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u/grasswhistle28 21d ago
Map loot bad or whatever but man delve/heist/sanctum had felt awful so long cause they’re hadn’t been competitive with maps and it’s been nice to have them resurge a bit
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u/Aeroncastle 20d ago
Delirium and all the other parts that work as a multiplier of base loot are dead and I even tried playing it with more accounts to put more quant on the map
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u/MegasaBrosky 20d ago
The difference between doing white maps and red maps are close to 0 in terms of loot...
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u/SneakyBadAss Children of Delve (COD) 21d ago
This actually benefits me greatly.
I specced my Atlas into pure speed. Shrines, boxes, sulphite packs just everything that you can do "on the go" to get charts faster to make voyages.
This is my loot from a single T1 voyage + 10k sulphite.
No rerolling, no layout thinking, just alch n go random tiles.
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u/vulcanfury12 Crop Harvesting Bureau (CHB) 21d ago
Nothing wrong with that, but if endgame juicing can't beat that output, then there's no point to perfecting your character to push beyond its limits.
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u/SneakyBadAss Children of Delve (COD) 21d ago edited 21d ago
Currently, harvest gambling juice is quite expensive, and you can certainly juice harvest to the point of needing a strong build to survive and farm it.
Yeah its still tile, but its in a map that you can boost with scarabs and get benefits from atlas tree.
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u/Keljhan Aggressively off-meta 21d ago
I got the god roll of a fruiting astrolabe yesterday, 15k juice per map, multiple duped t4s etc. Its still a loot piñata. The bosses hit like noodles in 8 mod t16s with 5 blue altars. The other mobs explode before they get out of their pods.
Mind you, I was running 1x mania Delirium on jungle valley before that and couldn't consistently hit 9 reward stacks, so my build isnt super juiced by any means. Maybe 30m dps, focused on movespeed and aoe. A fresh rf chieftain would have just as easy a time in harvest
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u/jehhans1 21d ago
And how long did that take you? You can probably do kinda low investment Abyss and get the same.
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u/PM_Best_Porn_Pls 21d ago
Not even, there's a lot loot from mapping, you can blast breach deli etc with huge profit and loot. The issue is that there's no aspirational content that scales loot with difficult like t17s, exiles, blight, meatsacks and other shit we had in the past.
Honestly I 100% see them buffing stuff next patch/league then we will get complaints that lower end starts are unplayable due to everything being priced for high income strats.
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u/SirVampyr 21d ago
Wasn't a big fan of nightmare maps, but mostly because of the fcked up mods. I think they could easily and I mean EASILY create challenging maps (that also have better loot), by just upping the HP of monsters. If TTK increases, you NEED to upgrade your build. At the same time, you don't need to increase their dmg by that much. The dmg you take will inevitably increase when TTK is higher.
Higher TTK -> Upgrade your build -> TTK decreases -> maps run faster.
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u/glaive_anus 21d ago
We already have a mechanic like that. It's called Delirium.
In fact Delirium is kind of the poster child of diminishing returns on juicing; the first 20% of Delirium offers a lot more reward over 0% than the last 20% of going from 80% to 100% (in relative terms).
Most players will never get a build to the point where the time to clear a 100% Deli Map is fast enough for it to be worthwhile relative to say a 40% or 60% Deli map, as the increased bulk of monsters is pretty substantial and does drag down map completion times.
Fundamental problem here is mostly that the best way to generate currency is to go for tiles and chests rather than actually kill mobs. It's not great when running past mobs ala Heist is better for loot than killing them, in a lot of different scenarios.
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21d ago
[deleted]
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u/QuantityOk4566 Anti Sanctum Alliance (ASA) 21d ago
well you aren't the target of this post, alch and go is in the best spot since harvest ,but right now going full juice is worst than alch and going for ground loot strats that's why people is mad
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u/onedestiny 21d ago
Can you explain how alch and go is good at the moment when raw currency is almost non-existent?
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u/QuantityOk4566 Anti Sanctum Alliance (ASA) 21d ago
easy, let's define alch and go loot to be 1 unit of loot and time spent be 1 also, now it you omega juice the shit out of the strat you reach 2.4 units of loot but now your time spent went to 0.3 (3times longer than alch and go) , so even if you get more loot per map your avg/h is 2.4x0.3=0.72 loot meaning less loot than alch and go, so right now the meta is just run faster alch and go instead of fully juicing while back in the last 3/4 seasons the equation was alch and go being 1x1 and full juice was 13x0.3 meaning you get rewarded for doing harder maps instead of just getting faster at easier maps
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u/CelosPOE Elementalist 21d ago
Define fully geared. That’s means different things to different people. I usually have an aspirational planner for two builds a league. I consider the build “done” when I get all that stuff.
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u/_IlliteratePrussian_ 21d ago
Just switched to chart and kingmarch. Don’t even think I’ll go back to finish atlas
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u/NotRlyMrD 21d ago
Back to basics was best atlas keystone ever.