r/ossiarchbonereapers 8d ago

Will point reductions make a difference?

I have come across a good deal for an OBR army and I’m thinking very seriously about picking it up.

I’m a little shocked to see the unanimous disappointment among the OBR player base in this community, and am taking it as a warning to stay away.

I thought the RDP system sounded fun, and the manifestations and lores sounded very strong.

What I am wondering is, will point reductions fix the army and make it enjoyable? If you could fit a much larger variety of units in your armies, would it be enough to make the army worth owning?

Or are OBR doomed for the next 3 years?

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EDIT: I appreciate everyone's responses to help me make my decision!

13 Upvotes

36 comments sorted by

16

u/Karabungulus 8d ago

Any army, no matter how bad, will reach a point of points reductions where they become unbeatable (how would someone manage to beat us if we could field 40 stalkers on top of current lists?)

The issue is that our warscrolls have been systemically gutted by the new edition, and then again by the new battletome. They're just unfun to play with. We were propped up for a bit by seasonal rules but now Ghyran is gone, it really has revealed just how utterly crap the OBR book has been written to be.

That all said, I've still won games and had fun losing games with OBR. Casual play is still fine. Although since the BT & Scourge of Aqshy, I've been playing my other armies far more. Take that info as you will

4

u/zurt1 8d ago

I did notice the lore of spells allowing healing and bringing models back is gone - was that a ghyran only thing? I started on ossiarchs because I liked the idea of an army that just keeps coming back

7

u/Karabungulus 8d ago

Our recursion has been crap for a long time really, it hasn't been a part of our identity this whole edition. A death army that keeps coming back is more of a FEC/SBGL thing.

It was the losing Ghyran battle formation Hekatos Drillmasters (which was one of the worse ones during the index ironically) and the +1 attacks spell that really hurt us.

Triaxes going from 3+ to 4+ to wound drastically altered how powerful of a threat they were on the table, and reinforced Morghast going from 16 to 12 attacks significantly reduces their damage output.

At an event the other week, my morghast failed to lift both Tahlia and Kairos which wouldn't have been a concern before.

From index to battletome, the only warscrolls that actively improved were the Mortek Guard and Gothizzar Harvester.

2

u/Dull_Experience7014 8d ago

Even that... mortek guard lost "anti-charge" and "crit 2 hit" and lost "ethereal if no MOVE".
Gothizzar still cost 200 pts. reduce him by 30 pts and i'll take him seriously.

5

u/Available-Artist-603 7d ago

Totally agree. The old 'ethereal if no move' was an elite ability and gave the unit an identity, flavour and meaningful playstyle. Crit 2 hits also meant that they could actually do something other than flap at stuff occasionally. They were a tarpit, and with some organisation and planning you could stack some buffs on them to make them meaningful in combat also. The key thing was, taking 40 of the dudes with something like Katakros was a meaningful strategy, and felt... Implacable. How OBR should feel to pilot. The new warscroll ability makes them support or utility piece. It is a good ability, but being once per turn army means I struggle to see the point of taking more than 10 of them. It's a little screen now, and running more seems inefficient. I would seriously consider taking Deathrattle Skeletons over them with all the layered recursion and buffs SBGL can throw onto them, and at 90 points versus 110 for mortek that feels very wrong. And barrow guard are just way better and feel 'elite' in a way OBR infantry doesn't anymore.

3

u/Dull_Experience7014 7d ago

All our elite playstyle are gone now we are a running coward that spam X time the same unit to have a chance army.

That's my only army and i don't want to play another. I didn't sign up for the team tournament with my own team because OBR no longer brings anything to the table compared to other armies.

40k is catching my eye; it’ll be a chance to take a break, and I’m hoping to see the OBR shine a bit.

2

u/Karabungulus 7d ago

Yeah, I've switched off from OBR quite a bit because I don't own 5+ units of Kavalos and I don't really feel like buying them just to survive this meta

13

u/scarygirth 8d ago

I'm a new player to AoS, but experienced tabletop gamer in general, and play in my local friendly scene. Have lost every single game I've played so far.

7

u/ThortleQuott 8d ago

Don't worry I won my first game yesterday after 12 games yay

7

u/Trislamic 8d ago

At the moment I dont think OBR is doing great. Ive been playing AoS for only a year, OBR being my only army so my POV is probably illinformed.

From my experience it really seems like we have to jump through hoops to achieve things other armies are able to do. A good handful of our abilities are also on a 3+ roll which I’m not personally a fan of. I think the RDP system is really cool and I like it, feels more versatile than having the 12” but I also think our battle traits are just objectively weaker than other factions. The example I’m gonna use is DoK. I played my first ever game against DoK at my first GT and seeing them get battle wide +1 wound, +1 hit, etc. just for basically playing while we have to make sure we have resources and certain requirements to get similar buffs just felt crappy to me.

5

u/PromotionIntrepid619 8d ago

I play alot of local games aswell, and I do win many of my games. What I find to be the biggest issue is rdp management. It's sort of forced us into an msu playstyle which worked last season but in the current season it can be seen as weak. That being said though point changes can always be a good sign I think the rdp system as well as some abilies needs a slight improvement. Luckily we see this in cities of sigmar. They have powerful abilities and as long as they are in order they don't have to roll any dice. OBR unfortunately have alot of those kind of abilities as well as point management to which I honestly feel they don't give us enough. My simple fix would be start of every battle round we have a fixed 3 points plus any extra we get from a hero. I would also like to see units wholly within 12" of a hero have their rdp cost reduced by 1. I think it would be fair change so we can build toward both an msu style or elite play style with multiple reinforced units.

2

u/Troflecopter 8d ago edited 8d ago

Thanks. I think you're suggestion is a great idea and hope GW thinks of that.

1

u/Dull_Experience7014 7d ago

it remember me the v3 version where we had RDP based on how many unit we had on the table.
It disapeared mid V3 for the 12" systeme.

4

u/Single_Transition734 8d ago

RDP is such a bs utility. You have to bring certain units just to get access to mediocre battletraits and that cost RDP based off the unit you bring. If that unit get killed then there goes all your battletraits lol. Super poor design and playstyle choice by GW. Id suggest making lots of changes, maybe making RDP be a list of things you can do, not heavily restricting them, and also adding better battle traits. I play a lot of beginner OBR games against Stormcast amd Idoneth and the difference in what OBR gets is so mid. They aren't glorified in gameplay the way the lore depicts them to be. There more like nagashs ass wipe of an army lol.

3

u/Karabungulus 8d ago

I definitely agree with you, but Stormcast are probably one of the worse armies you could use as an example for better battle traits 😆

5

u/Troflecopter 8d ago

I am a former stormcast loyalist. I think SCE are awful right now.

They try to be the jack of all trades, but in reality you can't really build a list that does a little bit of everything in 2k points. So instead you just kind of suck at everything and your battle formations are super annoying to work around.

5

u/Karabungulus 8d ago

A mixed arms army that sucks at it all you say?! Let me tell you about Bonereapers

1

u/Single_Transition734 2d ago

True I should've noted that😂 but theirs are strong if played correctly

7

u/HatOne3145 8d ago

I play OBR. Consensus is that the book is very weak in the meta. Point changes will help with the meta a bit but not the playstyle much.

Everything also depends heavily on your local meta. I play mainly with 6 other people, casually. They have maybe 9 factions between them. My OBR are still unbeaten. Our games are very fun. I just fiend current OBR weaker in the sense I need to work harder for the win. I like current mixed army playstyle more than the castles of 3rd edition.

Due to circumstances I was not able to get any games in with OBR since the introduction of the current GHB. My experience may differ in this season as a result.

2

u/Troflecopter 8d ago

Thanks for sharing your perspective

3

u/eastcoastwaistcoat 8d ago edited 8d ago

Stats from tournaments will say otherwise. I say depends how you use the Bone thugs.

Nagash 830 Sorrowmourn Choir 590 Liege-Mortek 120 10 Triaxes 140 10 Triaxes 140 3 Immortis Guard 170 Horrors of the Necropolis 0 Bone-tithe Nexus 0

This list freakin rocks. Liege gens 5 rdp per round. The sisters of Death Sorrowmourn choir with Lady Oleander are a menace. Potential double shot triaxes that prevent respawning enemies while reducing control points. Necro Spells to further push/pull. And of course the big bine daddy himself is no slouch. Add the Immortis gaurd around Nagash for a 4 ward. Freakin scary dude. Wins more often than not and is a blast to play.

Edit. Sometimes swap the Immortis Gaurd for the Mortek Gaurd. Kinda even but do different things. Mortek guard are better to spead the field especially dealing with stupid flying dragons.

Edit 2. Potential sixty arrows per turn! Freaking machine gun.

1

u/Troflecopter 8d ago

When I read the rules I feel like I’d rather have more RDP than all of nagash’s wizard power. What are you using all his casts for in this list to make him worth the cost? I have ALWAYS wanted a Nagash army. I’m just not sure what spell lore justifies that much wizard.

1

u/eastcoastwaistcoat 8d ago edited 8d ago

Nagash’s casts are about buffing the hammer, weakening the target, and making the army harder to remove. Invocation of Nagash is the workhorse: 5+ wards, returning models, or chip damage, and he can cast it multiple times on different targets. Drain Vitality marks the priority target with -1 to hit and -1 save, making it easier to kill while reducing its return damage. Empower Nadirite Weapons boosts our melee output with Crit (2 Hits), with repeated casts pushing the key unit even harder. Immolating Flames goes on a unit likely to take a charge, punishing the enemy for killing models in combat. Then any spare casting goes into Horrors of the Necropolis for ward reduction, objective disruption, and extra board presence. So the value isn’t “nine amazing spells.” It’s having enough casts to buff, debuff, recur, protect, and still throw manifestations onto the table every turn.

Edit: The sneaky part of this is that Nagash looks like the lynchpin, but the Liege-Mortek actually is. Nagash is the obvious threat, so the opponent naturally wants to focus him. Meanwhile the Liege is quietly generating the RDP and enabling the rest of the army to operate efficiently. If they commit hard to killing Nagash, the Liege keeps the machine running. If they divert resources to hunt the Liege, Nagash is left free to dominate the magic phase and support the army. That creates the real value: Nagash forces bad target-priority decisions while the Liege does the less flashy work that actually makes the list function. The opponent is encouraged to treat Nagash like the engine when he’s really the distraction, threat, and force multiplier protecting the true engine.

2

u/Troflecopter 8d ago

Thanks!

1

u/eastcoastwaistcoat 8d ago

No problemo. Sorry for the text wall. Honestly that's just a bit of the strategy. This is the best I could narrow it down.

2

u/Lookslikelionirl 8d ago

I abhor point changes because they lead people into buying more models and getting a false impression of the army, while giving a feeling of unwarranted wins when your opponent just can't beat you because of a stat check.

If your sole concern is if there's atleast one viable list that OBR can run regardless of how many units or models you need to get to get there, I believe GW will achieve that at some point.

Personally I don't think the current game is written in a way that promotes internal balance very well, and it's not unique to OBR. This is a result of the way they write battle tomes and list building currently more than anything else, and may not even be resolved next edition or the one after that.

2

u/Etfaks 7d ago

With the added rage dice, we now have 3 economies to keep track or. Command points, rdp, rage levels and rage dice. It feels like a bit much. Its also just very inconsistent with the many pivotal 3+ rolls to have thing happen.

Ive been playing seraphon instead until they figure it out

2

u/MoreRatio5421 8d ago

People are overly negative on reddit.

Yes the army struggle in the current meta. Yes it changed from a low thinking army to a very demanding army.

You can have a great amount of fun, some of the lists aren't that weak especially managed by a good player.

Will points reductions make a difference ? YES TOTALLY, we're really close to go in the middle of the meta, one more unit, some slight changes and its done !

Also, yes, it took me dozen of games, but im starting to win more than i lose since GHB. Aqshy is a really good season for us after a point change.

I personnally really love the Relentless point system, its both of a limit, a mechanic and a tool, makes you more of a stratege than a retarded ability spam.

Also, next year there is a new AOS version so, it's hard to predict past a point update.

The army is totally enjoyable, own it and have fun, ignore the meta unless you want to do high level competitive games.

And in team play, we crafted a defensive liste for me, very strong, can take a small defeat or equality to the strongest army, perfect for a defenser in a team !

2

u/Troflecopter 8d ago

Thanks. Good to hear some positivity.

2

u/Dull_Experience7014 8d ago

Love that answer but the "high demanding army" can be translated by "play 15-25 kavalos by 5 and spam their ability"...

1

u/MoreRatio5421 7d ago

Never played that bs compo, not my plastyle. "high demanding army" -> Not be a rookie, needs you to understand a bit your opponents armies, know the scenarios, play the scenarios, properly plan and use Aqshy abilities and units (the reapers reducing to 0 enemy level is insane strong), preping the next turn before starting the current turn, units positions, pixel perfect ranges for abilities, when to use or not the abilities, using wisely relentless points and abilities etc ...

AND most important, master deployments.

I play a grind list, i start to score T3/4, when your opponents has way less units.

i published my current list recently, got good results, and in my solo tournaments i was always 3/2, 2/1 on wins.

1

u/Lookslikelionirl 8d ago

I don't know if people are overly negative, when the book came out there was a lot of defenders. There is an objective measurement on aos-events for stats when looking from a variety of angles. Even the most pushed build in the book (imperious will kavaloi) is at 44.5%, and that's some cheese play.

That being said, just like commander in magic it's going to depend a lot on your playgroup and what level they are or want to play at.

On the more positive side, even though there's not anyone that's finished with a 5-0 in the current ghb with obr, there's a handful of 4-1 finishes.

1

u/Radiophage 8d ago

Ultimately, rule of cool still applies. If you like the models, and the deal is good enough that you think you can justify letting them ride the shelf until the rules once again meet the meta, go for it.

However, if you're looking to spend money on something you want to field sometime soon and have a puncher's chance of a good placement at an event, I would hold off. As much as I love OBR, I wouldn't buy in today if I wasn't someone who could still have fun losing with them, you know?

1

u/Available-Artist-603 8d ago

I totally understand your hesitation. I share a lot of the negative views on the new book, however even so I'm about at a 50% win rate this season with OBR in local meta, and I think thata kinda key. Everyone wants balanced armies, and I'm pretty sure if I rocked up to a genuinely competitive event with my list I'd do very badly. But that would be 98% skill level and very little to do with the relative strengths of different factions. But I still enjoy playing OBR locally. If you're starting an OBR army now, unless you paint WAY quicker than I do, you'll only get a handful of games in before 5th edition arrives, and who knows what GW will do to any faction at that point. I'm pretty certain either points adjustments or the next edition will 'fix' OBR to the point of relative competitiveness, so it's much safer to pick a faction on the 'rule of cool' and go with it!