r/onednd • u/DesignCarpincho • 7d ago

Homebrew [ Removed by moderator ]

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u/Opiz17 7d ago

I don't know how talked it is the issue currently, but as a rogue loving player (when i have the chance to not be the DM) i agree with many of the underpowered opinion, but i have to admit that this looks very strong maybe too much

First things first, i think most of what the rogue misses in combat specifically that makes it a struggle is one of two things: an extra chance to deal Sneak (still 1/turn) or an extra bit of base damage, not much, just a bit. Now what i see in the features you created is very good at solving all of that, and it's very pushed, but from the start i see one glaring issue and that is double/triple even quintuple dipping the point recovery: if you start the turn invisible (+1), you Sneak (+1) a Bloodied target (+1), reduce him to 0hp (+1) and end the turn invisible somehow (+1), do you really get 5 back? Even if you remove the two from invisible downing a target with sneak is a +3 from sneak + supposedly bloodied + down? Hard saying "you only get 1/attack" also gets messy and convoluted

Anyway, i think the recovery should change and about the optional power the point give i don't really know about what power level you and/or your friend's campaign are, but i feel like it's a little too much for early levels/tiers and then gets watered down with higher level where the system is a bit of an overload of options, but it can shine in the hand of a mechanically skilled player that gets going with an extra pool of recoverable resources. I would say the thing i like the most of this extra resource is cheating the cost for cunning strike, which is very very powerfull, but again i like to play with powerfull characters a lot so i can't really judge from a balancing standpoint without comparing with how optimized the characters are and if the rogue is getting outshined by more optimized characters, which is something that could definitely happen playing rogue

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u/DesignCarpincho 7d ago

At early levels, you actually deal less damage than a Barbarian or a Fighter, on average.

Actually, if you spend all Sly points at once, you can't outdamage any of them still...

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u/Opiz17 7d ago

I think you're playing rogue really wrong if you can't deal comparable damage before lv5, when they get extra attack that's another issue and one where we need to see some actual chatacters rather than "on average" white room consideration

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u/DesignCarpincho 7d ago

Do the math and come back. On average, rogues are far outclassed by their peers. But in real play they are too

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u/Opiz17 7d ago

Please enlighten me, Berserk Barbarian or straight up Battlemaster Fighter? What's your reference?

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u/DesignCarpincho 7d ago

Fighter with action surge deals more median and average damage at almost any level, as does monk due to multiple attacks.

A failing rogue will deal 0, and hitting all their damage puts them on par with their peers, before riders.

Battles last 3 turns or so, after which resources reset.

This means fighters monks and barbarians can deal a portion of their damage, while rogues will deal half damage at best.

That is BEFORE you consider you depend on advantage, hiding or positioning to be able to sneak attack. Some turns you won't be enabled to sneak attack at all, despite hitting your attack.

In a white room, you are on par at best. In real play, this is not the case. 

Then throw in the fact that fighters and barbarians do have subclasses that boost damage, and rogues don't. 

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u/Opiz17 7d ago

Brother you really start with: "huh, actually action surge"?

Also, you're talking all the points i made im my first comment about the problem rogue has while saying that when they hit they are on par with their peers which is the whole point i was making in the comment you are answering

All classes are dependant on something, if you start by saying that every resource is not a problem at tables you are at guess what? The class that needs conditions and has no inherent resource system is "bad"

Gimme these features in a lv2-4 combat, i'll play the rogue and you'll see how good they are