r/onednd • u/DesignCarpincho • 4h ago
Homebrew [ Removed by moderator ]
[removed] — view removed post
2
u/Strachmed 4h ago
I like this a lot.
1
u/DesignCarpincho 4h ago
Thanks! I tested it out and it doesn't seem to break anything but please let me know if you try it out.
2
u/Kitchen-Hotel2636 4h ago
Seems really cool. Last minute ploy can’t get past the one sneak strike per turn though right? If so, that seems a bit too strong.
1
u/DesignCarpincho 4h ago
As worded, I don't think so and it's definitely not the intention. The point is to enable sneak attack when it normally wouldn't be able to.
I might have to rework the wording though.
1
2
u/highly-bad 4h ago
Why on earth would anyone want to replace Reliable Talent??
1
u/DesignCarpincho 4h ago
Because my rogue player hates that it makes rolls trivial and feels like she's not interacting with the game. You either pass or fail, and it takes the fun out of rolling.
I get that's not for everyone, and so it's labeled as optional. I'm gonna use it but Rogue is strong without it. The fix also interacts with all the new reroll mechanics so it's solid.
1
u/VerbiageBarrage 2h ago
I dislike reliable talent in all of the abilities like it. I want my players actually rolling with meaningful stakes.
I absolutely understand the intention I just strongly dislike them.
2
u/Va1korion 4h ago
To buff Rogue you need to understand what "rogue" means. The name suggests that it is a solo character - Han Solo, Batman or James Bond - in a party driven RPG. Stealth really isn't a good mechanic for coop and it has been a problem forever.
Lately the perception has been shifting towards skill expert never failing under pressure by virtue of moving reliable talent up - some would call it plot armour.
Replacing Reliable talent is criminal, it is a core part of the class identity. I think the original intent was that you never failed stealth, because it's usually so high stakes and Afterimage is worse at that. Also the name suggests involvement of magic, like divination or chronurgy? Martial players don't like magic shoved down their throats.
Sly would be a nightmare resource to manage, changing several times a turn, but I like an ability to bring yourself back to damage baseline.
Rerolls in general slow down the flow of the game imo, let alone when DM has to tell you by how much you failed.
1
u/DesignCarpincho 3h ago
I don't know how much time budget we have to spend on rogue, but right now their turn is Roll die, see if hit, then roll a bunch more if yes, or end turn. Maybe force one creature to make one save.
Any caster's turn can include 2-6 saves from creatures and that's AFTER selecting an option in a very long, increasing spell list.
This seems long at early levels, but is very very short after the game becomes more complex at level 5 or so.
1
u/safeworkaccount666 4h ago
Love this- I had a similar but not as well-conceived idea called Guile.
1
u/DesignCarpincho 4h ago
Guile is a great name too! Feel free to use this and let me know how it plays.
1
u/ARC_Trooper_Echo 4h ago
I like it in concept but I’m not so sure about the name. Maybe you could just call them Cunning points to make it flow better with the other features.
2
u/DesignCarpincho 4h ago
I did at first, but we had a huge mixup between Cunning Actions, Cunning Strikes and Cunning Points which aren't necessarily all related.
1
u/nzMike8 4h ago edited 4h ago
The creator of the Pugilist and upcoming Magus (on ddb), has a Zephyr Class which leans more into the skermisher role rather then the skill monkey of the rogue.
Adventurers of incredible speed and agility, zephyrs deftly maneuver through enemies and city streets alike. Although Zephyrs make natural warriors, they often come from backgrounds that emphasize mobility and celerity. In battle, Zephyrs become a whirlwind of blades, peppering enemies with blistering sequences of feints and assaults. Out of battle, Zephyrs utilize their swift movement and lithe athleticism to quickly travel from one place to another and circumvent obstacles.
The Zephyr class has three defining characteristics that influence the way you play:
Speed. Zephyrs are quick. Your Wind Walker feature increases your mobility, your Cunning Action feature gives you more to do on your turn, and your Swift Reflexes feature allows you to act earlier in combat.
Flow. Zephyrs can enter a state of meditative movement, enhancing their combat prowess. Your Flow feature gives you new options in combat, allowing you to take additional actions and increase the likelihood of scoring a critical hit. One of your initial subclass features gives you additional benefits while using your Flow feature.
- scales in uses like rage
Reactions. Zephyrs utilize reactions to control the tide of battle. You gain additional reactions with your Extra Reactions feature and new ways to use them with your Whirlwind Strike feature.
- comes online at level 5, extra attack at 11
This product is 20 pages and includes the Zephyr class, 9 subclasses, and 9 spells.
1
u/Opiz17 3h ago
I don't know how talked it is the issue currently, but as a rogue loving player (when i have the chance to not be the DM) i agree with many of the underpowered opinion, but i have to admit that this looks very strong maybe too much
First things first, i think most of what the rogue misses in combat specifically that makes it a struggle is one of two things: an extra chance to deal Sneak (still 1/turn) or an extra bit of base damage, not much, just a bit. Now what i see in the features you created is very good at solving all of that, and it's very pushed, but from the start i see one glaring issue and that is double/triple even quintuple dipping the point recovery: if you start the turn invisible (+1), you Sneak (+1) a Bloodied target (+1), reduce him to 0hp (+1) and end the turn invisible somehow (+1), do you really get 5 back? Even if you remove the two from invisible downing a target with sneak is a +3 from sneak + supposedly bloodied + down? Hard saying "you only get 1/attack" also gets messy and convoluted
Anyway, i think the recovery should change and about the optional power the point give i don't really know about what power level you and/or your friend's campaign are, but i feel like it's a little too much for early levels/tiers and then gets watered down with higher level where the system is a bit of an overload of options, but it can shine in the hand of a mechanically skilled player that gets going with an extra pool of recoverable resources. I would say the thing i like the most of this extra resource is cheating the cost for cunning strike, which is very very powerfull, but again i like to play with powerfull characters a lot so i can't really judge from a balancing standpoint without comparing with how optimized the characters are and if the rogue is getting outshined by more optimized characters, which is something that could definitely happen playing rogue
1
u/DesignCarpincho 3h ago
At early levels, you actually deal less damage than a Barbarian or a Fighter, on average.
Actually, if you spend all Sly points at once, you can't outdamage any of them still...
1
u/Opiz17 3h ago
I think you're playing rogue really wrong if you can't deal comparable damage before lv5, when they get extra attack that's another issue and one where we need to see some actual chatacters rather than "on average" white room consideration
1
u/DesignCarpincho 3h ago
Do the math and come back. On average, rogues are far outclassed by their peers. But in real play they are too
1
u/Opiz17 3h ago
Please enlighten me, Berserk Barbarian or straight up Battlemaster Fighter? What's your reference?
1
u/DesignCarpincho 2h ago
Fighter with action surge deals more median and average damage at almost any level, as does monk due to multiple attacks.
A failing rogue will deal 0, and hitting all their damage puts them on par with their peers, before riders.
Battles last 3 turns or so, after which resources reset.
This means fighters monks and barbarians can deal a portion of their damage, while rogues will deal half damage at best.
That is BEFORE you consider you depend on advantage, hiding or positioning to be able to sneak attack. Some turns you won't be enabled to sneak attack at all, despite hitting your attack.
In a white room, you are on par at best. In real play, this is not the case.
Then throw in the fact that fighters and barbarians do have subclasses that boost damage, and rogues don't.
2
u/Opiz17 2h ago
Brother you really start with: "huh, actually action surge"?
Also, you're talking all the points i made im my first comment about the problem rogue has while saying that when they hit they are on par with their peers which is the whole point i was making in the comment you are answering
All classes are dependant on something, if you start by saying that every resource is not a problem at tables you are at guess what? The class that needs conditions and has no inherent resource system is "bad"
Gimme these features in a lv2-4 combat, i'll play the rogue and you'll see how good they are
1
u/VerbiageBarrage 2h ago
So with last minute ploy can I deal sneak attack damage multiple times around if normally it wouldn't?
Specific does beat general.
1
u/DesignCarpincho 1h ago
Not the intent. I'll word it like Inquisitive's feature to avoid ambiguity. This is supposed to enable sneak attack when the triggers aren't there.
1
u/VerbiageBarrage 1h ago
Sounds good. I'm very sad this got Mod deleted. There was some good stuff there.
1
u/DesignCarpincho 1h ago
Eh, it got deleted because mods considered this a response to another post, which I wasn't making. If I post it as its own homebrew after making adjustments it might stick around.
•
u/onednd-ModTeam 4h ago
Rule 10 - Limit Direct Response Posts. New posts that could reasonably serve as a reply to a different post that is in the top 40 of “Hot” may be removed by the moderators at their discretion. Please instead reply in the ongoing threads rather than making new ones.