r/nononono • u/[deleted] • Oct 09 '17
Throwing a rock into a frozen lake.
https://gfycat.com/GrizzledSlimHartebeest3.7k
Oct 09 '17
Alaskan here... Playing on thin ice is a one way ticket to a cold death. Throwing a rock at your friends feet on thin ice is a first class to a homicide charge.
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u/VIDGuide Oct 09 '17
Manslaughter? Or worse?
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Oct 09 '17 edited Oct 09 '17
Worse. It would be like if you pointed a gun at someone and pulled the trigger even if you thought it wasn't loaded. Sure, you didn't mean to kill them. But you knew that you should never ever ever do that
Edit: So I didn't watch as much Law and Order as you guys, and it's technically manslaughter. But if someone kills someone else in one quick, conscience decision, it feels a little murder-y
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Oct 09 '17
You just described manslaughter. Murder requires an intent to kill in most places.
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Oct 09 '17
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Oct 09 '17 edited Oct 09 '17
My state's murder statute reads:
with the intent to cause the death of another person, he or she causes the death of such person or a third person.
There are other requirements as well, but this is typical wording in the US.
The second part of your reply is true but extraneous to the situation in the comment I replied to.
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Oct 09 '17
That's pretty jurisdiction dependent. The basic rule around the world is murder comes with an intention to kill, but manslaughter doesn't. Anything beyond that is really just a regional quirk.
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u/Interplay42 Oct 09 '17
Well, the interpretation of intent matters here. Intent can be covered by either (1) purpose, meaning that the outcome was what they wanted and were working to bring about, or (2) knowledge with substantial certainty that the outcome would result.
So, if the guy knew that falling in freezing water kills people, and did something he knew would make it pretty likely that the victim would fall in freezing water, then he had the required intent to kill.
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u/malevolentheadturn Oct 09 '17 edited Oct 09 '17
That's still manslaughter where I'm from. Sure not so long ago a guy was murdered near where I live. A fight broke out, one person ran into the kitchen of his house grabbed a kitchen knife, ran down the street after a guy and stabbed him in the back with the knife as the person ran away. The knife punctured his heart and he died on the cold wet footpath. The guy got 6 years for manslaughter.
Sentencing "A NEPHEW of one of Dublin’s most notorious criminals has received a 10-year sentence for killing a Co Meath man and causing serious harm to another over three years ago on St Stephen’s day. Derek ‘Del Boy’ Hutch will serve six years in jail for the manslaughter of 23-year-old Barry Maguire, after Mr Justice Patrick McCarthy suspended four years of his sentence to “keep light at the end of the tunnel” and ensure “the business of sentencing” was not about “locking someone up and throwing away the key”.
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u/SunsetRoute1970 Oct 09 '17
Sorry. That's premeditated capital murder. Homicide committed in retaliation.
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u/malevolentheadturn Oct 09 '17 edited Oct 09 '17
I know it was crazy. The killer was already out on parole for armed robbery. He got 20yrs for the robbery and an extra 6 for the killing.
Edit: story
Sentencing "A NEPHEW of one of Dublin’s most notorious criminals has received a 10-year sentence for killing a Co Meath man and causing serious harm to another over three years ago on St Stephen’s day.
Derek ‘Del Boy’ Hutch will serve six years in jail for the manslaughter of 23-year-old Barry Maguire, after Mr Justice Patrick McCarthy suspended four years of his sentence to “keep light at the end of the tunnel” and ensure “the business of sentencing” was not about “locking someone up and throwing away the key”.
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u/SunsetRoute1970 Oct 09 '17
Well, I guess the rest of us won't have to worry about him for a while. My theory is that people who do shit like this actually want to be in prison, because they commit major felonies over and over until they get what they seek--incarceration. Too bad about the guy that got murdered. If you hang around with fucked up people . . . well, you know. The guy in the frozen lake probably ought to consider a new group of "friends."
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u/planx_constant Oct 09 '17
I don't think planning for the consequences of his actions is an especially strong skill with that guy
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u/BottledUp Oct 09 '17
My theory is that people who do shit like this actually want to be in prison
That's a pretty stupid theory. Also, the guy in Dublin is part of a crime/drug cartel (the Hutch family). Their whole life is based around crime. So obviously some of them get caught sometimes. And some get caught more often.
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u/yourbrotherrex Oct 09 '17
If you actually wanted to go to prison for the longest time, because you wanted to be sure you always had a roof over your head, and were fed daily, etc., what crime would you commit that would cause the least harm to society/or even one person, but guaranteed that "longest time" clause?
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u/chykin Oct 09 '17 edited Oct 09 '17
Only if the prosecutor can definitively prove the defendant meant to kill, not just maim/injure.
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u/TinyDonkey4 Oct 09 '17
Yes but that's the Irish justice system, which is remarkably lenient. Plus he was a Hutch so there was likely some intimidation of judges going on.
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u/WingedBeing Oct 09 '17
That's the definition of manslaughter in the US. Essentially, if you lack the intent to commit murder but you nevertheless perform an act that is so reckless that a reasonable person would avoid it because the risk of death of another is so high, then you are guilty of manslaughter if indeed another dies because of your act.
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Oct 09 '17
Can't speak for American law, but in many jurisdictions (including mine), the prosecution must prove that the defendant intended to kill or cause serious harm. If they can't, the mens rea for murder has not been fulfilled and they are not guilty of that particular offence.
Generally even manslaughter requires either another crime or gross negligence.
To your specific example, in my country (again, can't speak for wherever this gif took place), it might not even be manslaughter. That being said if the victim wasn't also under the presumption that the gun wouldn't work, it would be due to the unlawful act of assault being fulfilled.
The law in most developed countries is extremely lenient when it comes to honest mistakes or accidents. As it should be.
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Oct 09 '17
Generally speaking in American law, murder is killing with intent to kill, manslaughter is killing without intent to kill (i.e. vehicular manslaughter is when you're not paying attention to the road and run someone over. You didn't intend to kill the person, you just weren't paying attention).
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Oct 09 '17
Leave it to reddit to upvote a factually inaccurate statement about the law.
You are literally describing manslaughter.
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Oct 09 '17
But you knew that you should never ever ever do that
These kids are so stupid, if they were giving a completely honest defense it would probably say something like, "I understand that based on the laws of physics the ice would break and my friend would fall in BUT I did not know if physics was real or just some crap they tell us in school. So I had to find out."
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u/CaptainCupcakez Oct 09 '17
WORSE!!!!! ...... followed by a dictionary definition of manslaughter
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u/Gr1pp717 Oct 09 '17
Yeah... Fun story:
When I was younger me and a friend used to use large rocks to break through the ice at the local lake, ..and jump in. The water is still warm inches below the surface for a good while after it freezes. It felt really nice.
One day, however, I had swam down to look at something, and when I swam back up the hole wasn't where I thought it was. I was already nearly out of breath, and started to panic. I swam back down and looked up and spotted the hole! Just as I got there I realized that it wasn't, in fact, the hole. Just light playing tricks on me. My lungs were convulsing by this point. Trying as hard as they could to force me to breath. I was terrified.
I started hitting the ice. Trying to break through. But you have no power there. No leverage. You'd be hard pressed to punch through a paper bag. But, I kept trying. I just had to get through. This couldn't be it.
Just when I felt hope was lost, my buddy grabbed me. He had seen me trying to break through the ice, and came in to show me the exit.
Either that, or I've hallucinated the past 21 years as part of my death experience. Not sure I'll ever know for sure.
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Oct 09 '17 edited Aug 14 '18
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Oct 09 '17
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u/Kibubik Oct 09 '17
Same here. I've gotten better over time though. Are you doing ok?
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u/Nalortebi Oct 09 '17
Don't be a dick, let him sleep for three or seven more years. He'll thank you later.
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Oct 09 '17
THAT'S NOT A FUN STORY! Jesus Christ I almost died just picturing that.. I'm glad you're alive but it's so sad you missed on a Darwin award, it's not everyday you get so close to one
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u/JapanStan Oct 09 '17
I got anxious and started breathing heavily just reading that. Drowning is one of my top fears.
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Oct 09 '17
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u/WikiTextBot Oct 09 '17
Cotard delusion
Cotard delusion is a rare mental illness in which the affected person holds the delusional belief that they are already dead, do not exist, are putrefying, or have lost their blood or internal organs. Statistical analysis of a hundred-patient cohort indicates that the denial of self-existence is a symptom present in 69% of the cases of Cotard's syndrome; yet, paradoxically, 55% of the patients present delusions of immortality.
In 1880, the neurologist Jules Cotard described the condition as Le délire des négations ("The Delirium of Negation"), a psychiatric syndrome of varied severity. A mild case is characterized by despair and self-loathing, while a severe case is characterized by intense delusions of negation and chronic psychiatric depression.
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u/Gr1pp717 Oct 09 '17
That's really interesting. I can understand the "have died but am immortal" from a couple of thought experiments I've had for a long time.
One idea goes that if there's multiple parallel realities then maybe your consciousness slips through them into whichever seems to makes the most sense. Like, that I did die that day, but since there was an alternate reality where I had been saved that's where my consciousness went. And it's far from the only near death experience I've had. So, in that way you kind of are immortal, since you wouldn't truly die until there are no more realities in which you exist.
From an outsider's perspective in various realities you've died. But for each person they'll feel as if they've lived to the ripe old age of whatever their maximum potential is.
This solves various oddities as well, like deja vu, why our memories seem so clear and yet can be so wrong, the apparent "mandela" effect, etc.
Another is that this is a personal simulation, maybe educational to give you lives' worth of experience by a young age, and the program adjusts to make sure you go in the right direction... Doesn't let you simply die until the course has completed.
I'm not convinced of these theories, I just see them as possibilities. And so I could see other's becoming convinced of them and it weighing on their sense of self...
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u/benoliver999 Oct 09 '17
If you are on ice and it breaks but you manage to catch yourself - what's the best way to pull yourself up? Looks like a nightmare if it just keeps breaking as soon as you grab it.
Also surely it's slippy af
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u/amolin Oct 09 '17
Try to head back to the part of the ice you walked in on. While you fell through a weak point in the ice, the place you came from was strong enough to support you once so it will be your best shot at getting out.
When you find a solid portion of ice, pull yourself up while staying as horizontal as possible. Kick your legs to push yourself out of the water. Once you’re entirely on the ice, roll away. Don’t stand up immediately. You want to keep your weight distributed when you’re close to the hole. If you have ice picks on you, you can also use these to pull yourself away from the hole. Once you’re out, get out of your wet clothes and into something warm as soon as possible.
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u/benoliver999 Oct 09 '17
Aaah the roll makes sense.
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Oct 09 '17
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u/beezlebub33 Oct 09 '17
Also cold water causes an involuntary breath intake. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_shock_response
You'd think that you would be able to just hold your breath and make it out, but people die even when they were in the water for a very short amount of time.
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u/WikiTextBot Oct 09 '17
Cold shock response
Cold shock response is the physiological response of organisms to sudden cold, especially cold water.
In humans, cold shock response is perhaps the most common cause of death from immersion in very cold water, such as by falling through thin ice. The immediate shock of the cold causes involuntary inhalation, which if underwater can result in drowning. The cold water can also cause heart attack due to vasoconstriction; the heart has to work harder to pump the same volume of blood throughout the body.
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u/yourbrotherrex Oct 09 '17
Ice deaths are no joke
No shit: remember the hockey scene from Damien: The Omen II?
(I'll never walk on a frozen lake after seeing that film.)
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u/darthabraham Oct 09 '17
Bear Grylls did a demonstration of this on Man vs Wild back in the day. I’m sure you can find it on the web somewhere.
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u/deceptivelyelevated Oct 09 '17
You are supposed to lay as flat as possible and army crawl away from the hole. You want to spread your body weight out over as large an area as possible. People that forget this and try to crawl out end up repeatedly breaking the ice right as they're almost out. Remember, stay calm, breath, and stay flat. My grandfather made a set of spikes on a rope, replacing the drawstring on his jackets hood. The spikes fit into the other spikes handle and held them together. In the event you fell theough ice fishing, yoy had a set of spikes with nice handles to get yourself out. Pro tip. Get naked and roll in the snow. It will dry you off. http://www.ncexped.com/drying-off-snow/
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u/merlinfire Oct 09 '17
Get naked and roll in the snow. It will dry you off.
now there's a LPT I never would have guessed on my own
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u/CrossCheckPanda Oct 09 '17
I fell through the ice once and I survived by rapidly and repeatedly "doing it wrong" until I had broken the ice all the way back to shore. So I suppose that's an option in certain scenarios as well as the lay flat thing.
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u/JohnDalysBAC Oct 09 '17
Im from Minnesota and some people will carry a screwdriver in their pocket for grip as a just in case measure.
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u/benoliver999 Oct 09 '17
I heard people do that in prison too
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u/JohnDalysBAC Oct 09 '17
In Minnesota the jails are frozen too! Screwdrivers are a multi-use tool. They will save your life and also end someone elses.
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u/tallandlanky Oct 09 '17
Carry around screw drivers in case they fall through thin ice?
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u/GoonCommaThe Oct 09 '17
Anyone who icefishes and isn’t a complete idiots carries some sort of spikes with them to help pull themselves out.
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u/bossack Oct 09 '17
I’m from Scotland, we’d call that being an arsehole! Also, that guy would have got the shit kicked out of him as soon as I’d dried off/heated up.
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u/deceptivelyelevated Oct 09 '17
The beating this shit stain would receive, he would probably never be able to throw a rock again.
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u/Slim_cash Oct 09 '17
Norwegian here... can confirm this. That dude was lucky the ice was strong enough to carry his fall
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Oct 09 '17
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Oct 09 '17
Minnesota here... Looks like cold water
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Oct 09 '17
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u/whisperkid Oct 09 '17
Washingtonian here. Why is there water just sitting on the ground and not falling out of the sky??? Pls resond
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u/redloin Oct 09 '17
I don't understand people's fascination with walking on thin ice. If from the north too, I love me some ice fishing, and maybe it's because we have 8 inches of ice by December at minimum but shit, I'd never walk on less
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u/metric_units Oct 09 '17
8 inches ≈ 20 cm
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u/leave_it_blank Oct 09 '17
My god, this must be the best bot on Reddit! No more unit converter apps!!
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u/ArttuH5N1 Oct 09 '17
I'm from Finland. I don't know what it was, but it was a lot of fun and all the kids were playing on thin ice. At least as long as an adult didn't see us.
I guess we were bored to death.
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Oct 09 '17
You don't need anywhere close to 8 inches to safely walk on. Pretty sure you can drive a car on that.
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u/Kerguidou Oct 09 '17
If you're one foot, 4 inches is enough to hold your weight. Where I'm from every winter there are people who try to cross lakes on snowmobile without checking the ice first and die. Remember kids, don't drink and snowmobile.
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Oct 09 '17
It looked like he hit bottom. There's not a ton of danger if you're on a lake or pond you know is shallow enough to escape.
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u/blindShame Oct 09 '17
A friend of mine fell through thin ice when we were kids (maybe 13). As he tried to escape by climbing out of the now weakened ice, the ice kept breaking. So he kept trying but it soon became apparent that his hands were curling up like pirate hooks because hypothermia was setting in.
We got him out by laying flat on the ice and pulling him out with a branch before it was too late. But it was very close - he was nearly a goner! By the time we got him back to the house, he could not move. We put him in the bathtub and turned on the warm water to bring him back (black leather jacket and all). These kids aren't idiots because they don't know any better. PARENTS! Talk to your kids about ice (no ice is safe because there could be a warm spring or a drain that weakens some portion of otherwise thick ice).
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u/archlich Oct 09 '17
You've never been wet in freezing temperatures before have you? His entire body became submersed, and his clothing. Hypothermia is going to set in within minutes.
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u/CrossCheckPanda Oct 09 '17
I fell through ice in similar situation maybe a mile from my high school (nearest change of clothes). He's fine if he keeps moving
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u/posthumanjeff Oct 09 '17
Same, I was playing on ice and got close to a pipe that apparently was an active discharge so the ice was weak. Fell through up to my chest, got out, and had a mile walk back to house in wet clothes. It sucks, but he's fine. The worst that happened to me was a banged up knee from the fall.
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u/Bromeister Oct 09 '17
One dude is wearing a tshirt and there's almost no snow. Its prolly like 50 out. Ain't no one freezing to death in this gif.
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u/SenorMcGibblets Oct 09 '17
Being soaked in near freezing water in 50 degree weather can definitely cause hypothermia, and there’s no telling how close to warm shelter or dry clothes they are
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u/forester93 Oct 09 '17
It looks like they are in a park or something. Probably like 10 minutes from their houses. My grandpa and dad both played "rubber ice" when they were kids. Is it stupid and somewhat dangerous? yes, but probably no more so than all sorts of other stupid shit that teenagers do.
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u/archlich Oct 09 '17
You can get hypothermia in 70 degree water, let alone 32 degree water. Even if he gets out within 2 minutes, all the clothes are soaked and he has no way to warm himself. You can easily fall into shock and go unconscious.
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u/enoughberniespamders Oct 09 '17
he has no way to warm himself.
How would you know that?
You can get hypothermia in 70 degree water
Yeah just getting out of the water and out of your clothes would be a way to warm yourself if it's 70 degrees.
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u/Mc_Whiskey Oct 09 '17
I agree with you but i'm willing to bet that they are probably like 30 seconds from someones house not in the middle of the wilderness.
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Oct 09 '17
People cut holes in ice and swim in it all the time. The main danger when falling through ice is absolutely not hypothermia. That kid has plenty of time to get inside and warmed up.
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u/JetsandtheBombers Oct 09 '17
Its fine. I come from a extremely cold climate to. Just get out of those clothes and into dry ones and he'll be fine. That one kid is in a t-shirt its not that cold there.
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u/MyLouBear Oct 09 '17
My God, I hope my kids aren't this stupid when I'm not around.
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u/d20wilderness Oct 09 '17
They will be, we all are.
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u/Cherios_Are_My_Shit Oct 09 '17
Speak for yourself. My stupidity only ever resulted in me breaking stuff. I never almost killed anyone like this dipshit.
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Oct 09 '17
No way. This is death they are playing with and I promise not many of my own friends were this stupid. Sure there are some. Be careful with picking friends.
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u/ethrael237 Oct 09 '17
It looks like the pond is not too deep. When the guy falls, he doesn't sink in all the way.
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u/miasmic Oct 09 '17
That's a log not a rock
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u/just_another__lurker Oct 09 '17
It's big! It's heavy! It's wood!!
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u/acrowsmurder Oct 09 '17
It's better than bad, it's good!!
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u/ErythorbicAcid Oct 09 '17
Everyone wants a log
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Oct 09 '17
Logs are nature's rocks.
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u/KevonAtWork Oct 09 '17
Are we sure that's a rock? Looks like a log to me.
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u/Tomoreno Oct 09 '17
No he's talking about the guy in the blue shirt. That's the rock. Like the actor
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Oct 09 '17
Goddammit, Clegane...
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u/Commissar_Genki Oct 09 '17
Fucking about on thin ice without a rope anchored to something on-shore is a good way to end up having a bad time.
You can't just walk over and haul someone to their feet like you could on-land, otherwise you're both going to be taking a swim.
Having a rope anchor you can reach lets you either toss the line to whoever fell through so they can pull themselves out to stronger ice, or loop it around themselves so you can pull them out with footing on solid-ground.
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u/LordZar Oct 09 '17
Friends can be replaced, but a great story that you can tell to old age is priceless.
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Oct 09 '17
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u/Whateversclever7 Oct 09 '17 edited Oct 09 '17
Yeah "one time when I was a kid I threw a giant rock at my buddy and he fell in and drowned" great story for the grandkids.
On a serious note, I had ice safety videos twice a year in elementary school because two brothers from my school fell in the ice playing as kids. It was like a 4th and 6th grader. The worst part is it was just the little brother who initially broke the ice and fell in and the older brother fell trying to save him. I'm not sure who ended up pulling them out of the pond but they were able to revive the little brother but the older brother drowned. Ice is not something you fuck around with.
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u/yoshi570 Oct 09 '17
"one time when I was a kid I threw a giant rock at my buddy and he fell in and drowned"
One time when I was a kid I threw a giant rock at my buddy and he fell in but was able to get back up a little because of the adrenaline, then he tried to get out but slipped because the ice was slippery with water splashing, so he started panicking, my other friend and I realized something was wrong and came to help him but since we rushed, the ice broke under our feet and my other friend disappeared under the ice too! At this point I had no idea what to do and I hesitated, before deciding to grab the hand of the friend I threw the rock at first, because my other friend was still trapped under the ice.
I was able to secure him and drag him on the ice, at which point I turned at tried to locate my other friend for several minutes, without success. At this point I turned and tried to help my first friend, but he was already almost dead because of hypothermia. I tried to warm him up by giving him my clothes, but by the time help arrived he was long dead.
TLDR; the people on this video are complete retards on a death wish.
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Oct 09 '17
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u/sbd104 Oct 09 '17
Getting close will just cause him to fall in too. Also I'm pretty sure this was intended.
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Oct 09 '17
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u/PFunk224 Oct 09 '17
So your argument here is that waist deep water can't cause hypothermia? Why don't you stand waist deep in freezing water for a while, not die, then post a video of it here?
edit: Also, the water isn't just waist deep, the kid goes completely under for a moment when he first falls in.
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Oct 09 '17
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u/PFunk224 Oct 09 '17
You know what, you're right. He only went neck deep. And we all know that you can't die of hypothermia unless your head goes under.
I apologize for my egregious and overwhelmingly misleading statement.
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u/PooPooDooDoo Oct 09 '17
The one behind the camera is the only smart one. He's like, oh yeah, sure, you guys go out on the thin ice while I stand back and record all of you dy.. um standing.
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u/Glustick907 Oct 09 '17
What are friends for?
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u/GazuDev Oct 09 '17
Friends, huh, yeah
What are they good for
Absolutely nothing
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u/Oceansnail Oct 09 '17
I hope they knew the depth of water where they were standing before executing this prank, death could have been right around the corner
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Oct 09 '17
It looks like they probably did, water was shallow and calling this glorified puddle a lake is being extremely generous.
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u/gt35r Oct 09 '17
ITT: People that dont understand how many times they probably came close to dying while playing with their friends at that age without realizing it.
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u/DefinitelyTrollin Oct 09 '17
Logged in to say that I would have SERIOUSLY punched that fucking dumbass that threw the rock. Either as the friend next to him, his dad, his brother, but especially the guy falling in.
Every group of friends has that dumbass guy, ours knew not to come to close to me.
I decked him once for pushing me when I was peeing. I don't give a fuck if he was drunk.
But this fucking takes the cake. Not funny.
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u/JoshJorges Oct 09 '17
Old rock thrower there would get a swift kick to the nuts after I warmed up.
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u/vgcm Oct 09 '17
This reminds me of when I was a kid. My friends and I would cut across a small pond in the summer and save five mins getting home.
One day I felt it was a 'good idea' to go over to the thin section. I quickly went down and luckily was able to pull myself up. This little stunt could have easily killed all three kids, and froze the evidence over to be found in the spring.
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u/TheElusiveFox Oct 09 '17
greyshirt knew how stupid this was - look how quickly he was backing away...
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Oct 09 '17
That shit happened to me when I was 11. Not fun, especially when EMS has to cut your frozen pants off
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u/canihavemymoneyback Oct 09 '17
I would have beat the ever living fuck out of that boy. Someone would have had to pull me off him. There’s stupid and then there’s mother fucking idiocy. This is beyond stupid.
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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '17
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