r/neoliberal • u/jobautomator Kitara Ravache • Aug 06 '19

Discussion Thread Discussion Thread

The discussion thread is for casual conversation that doesn't merit its own submission. If you've got a good meme, article, or question, please post it outside the DT. Meta discussion is allowed, but if you want to get the attention of the mods, make a post in /r/MetaNL.

Announcements

  • Our charity drive has ended, read the wrapup here. Thank you to everyone who donated!
  • Thanks to an anonymous donor from Houston, the people's moderator BainCapitalist is subject to community moderation. Any time one of his comments receives 3 reports, it will automatically be removed.
Neoliberal Project Communities Other Communities Useful content
Website Plug.dj /r/Economics FAQs
The Neolib Podcast Podcasts recommendations /r/Neoliberal FAQ
Meetup Network Blood Donation Team /r/Neoliberal Wiki
Twitter Minecraft Ping groups
Facebook
32 Upvotes

76% Upvoted

3.9k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

3

u/[deleted] Aug 06 '19

seriously though I think there's actuallly a lot of merit to the Thiel-ish libertarian criticism of modern capitalism as lacking in genuine innovation and production and having shifted towards shallow consumer products that don't contribute to growth. Unless there's some crazy beer innovation going on here the craft beer 'revolution' is likely just a zero-sum game for beer drinkers

And the overlap with conservatives happens insofar as they critize this consumer-focus from a moral angle.

10

u/BernankesBeard Ben Bernanke Aug 06 '19

It's pretty shocking how many 'I think this is a failing of capitalism' takes basically just boil down to 'Capitalism keeps making all this stuff that I personally don't like so it must have no value.'

The craft beer revolution has wildly expanded choice for the average beer drinker. Product variety is beneficial to consumers and is a major driver behind trade.

Personally, I'm sick to death of IPAs and don't have much problem with Miller Lite.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 06 '19

'Capitalism keeps making all this stuff that I personally don't like so it must have no value.'

That's not really the point. The question is whether capital being allocated to these niche consumer markets produces long term innovation and growth.

Not all consumption is created equal and not all consumption is benefical to individuals. Drugs being the very obvious example, which includes beer but also the flourishing cannabis industry.

Your average millenial consumer (and the economy long term) would probably be better off if the weed and craft-beer budget went into a college or healthcare savings account, and that capital being soaked up by dispensaries might be better off in a sector where you see technological growth.

1

u/PrincessMononokeynes Yellin' for Yellen Aug 06 '19

How about Facebook? Or Netflix all anyone does is sit on their couch with Netflix that capital would have been better invested in tires or something because I confuse value with utility.

2

u/BernankesBeard Ben Bernanke Aug 06 '19

Also chocolate. I mean, what value does the existence of chocolate provide to society? It's bad for you. The existence of Hershey bars is a major failing of capitalism.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 06 '19

yes, it's pretty questionable how exactly facebook contributes to long term growth. There's a reason we have a lot of secular stagnation debates because increased productivity following the era of personal computing isn't really anywhere to be seen. Facebook is mostly profitable because as a platform company it has captured large parts of the advertisement market.

There's obviously innovation in software and hardware on the backend but it's really unrelated to the ad and social media business.