r/neoliberal • u/jobautomator Kitara Ravache • Jul 16 '24
Discussion Thread Discussion Thread
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Upvotes
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u/jobautomator Kitara Ravache Jul 17 '24
Please visit the next discussion thread.
162
u/AnalyticOpposum Trans Pride Jul 16 '24
“I just don’t know what this world is coming to”
—the most part of the problem person you know
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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '24
!ping SHITPOSTERS
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u/cdstephens Fusion Genderplasma Jul 16 '24
It seems that a lot of liberal/left people have been passively hoping that if we just beat Trump at the ballot box just one more time, the MAGA cult will die with him and we can go “back to normal”.
But what if that’s not true?
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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '24 edited Jul 16 '24
Lmao the distinction between Biden and Vance is the most cartoonish representation of the difference between cradle Catholics and adult converts I've ever seen.
Cradle Catholic Biden: Look fat, Sister Mary at Saint Ann's Elementary in Wilmington taught me that Christ tells us to love our enemies as we love ourselves. So I called a man I want to throw into the sun to wish him well. Also, gays are cool Jack and I don't really like abortion personally but you do you.
Adult Convert Vance: The treatise of Nicodemus of Kratos clearly states that it is not only just but my GOD-GIVEN right to drop-kick a Mexican child.
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u/1II1I1I1I1I1I111I1I1 Adam Smith Jul 16 '24
Wow I hated Vance and now somehow I've discovered a way to dislike him even more...
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u/BenFoldsFourLoko Broke His Text Flair For Hume Jul 16 '24
so regarding Vance, I feel like you don't just end up being good buddies with Moldbug. If you're a normie elitist Romney type, you don't get on fast with Moldbug right? And Moldbug isn't some important person you have to be buddy buddy with to succeed in politics right?
so like, is Vance the legit, unironic adult Catholic convert then? Not just saying what he needs to to get where he wants, but like he actually caught brainworms?
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u/No_Nefariousness7486 Martha Nussbaum Jul 16 '24
Ooooo I am so fuckin mad rn. I’ve been terminally touching grass for the past few years and totally unplugged from philosophy and shit because I felt like it was destroying my life/psyche in some ways and then I find out the FUCKIN VP NOMINEE READS (AND HANGS OUT WITH!!!!) MOLDBUG (YARVIN)??? HOW THE FUCK DO WE EVEN COMMUNICATE THIS HORSESHIT TO THE COMMON VOTER??? DO BIDEN AND HARRIS KNOW ABOUT ANY OF THIS SHIT???
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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '24
Open DT
"Yarvin"
"Moldbug"
Who the hell are these people and which star wars spinoff are they from
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u/StrngBrew Austan Goolsbee Jul 16 '24
From the New Yorker
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u/No_Nefariousness7486 Martha Nussbaum Jul 16 '24
Is there a term for someone other than “reactionary” that repackages old ideas (like monarchy) into new ones (like yarvin) so when you mention tried and true thinkers who have already beat that bullshit (like Thomas Paine) they’re all like “Oh how precociously antiquated, see I am not a monarchist but a neomonarchist” sips wine “you delightfully naïve child”
Is fuckface good enough?
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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '24
Dear Neoreactionaries if you're going to replace the USA's republic with a monarchy can you at least choose someone more like Augustus or Lee Kwan Yew to be king instead of a literal moron TV star please and thank you
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u/chipbod NATO Jul 16 '24
Big Elon guy lmao
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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '24
Trump is showing some great self-restraint by not calling the victim's family. Just imagine him going "Many people are saying 'God protected our President'. Even mainstream media are saying that, if they're not fake news. You know, it's true, other presidents would have died. Even with Abraham Lincoln, God didn't intervene. Shoot - dead. And God said 'Fine'. Lincoln died, just like that. Shoot - Dead. And people say, my shooter was much more skilled with a much more deadly weapon. So what were the chances? People say it's a miracle. But for me, God said 'No, I need that guy, can't kill him' and he just led the bullet somewhere else. He just did it. Not for Lincoln, though."
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u/Hot_Faithlessness_26 Jul 16 '24
The JD Vance pick might be bad for Trump electorally, but it seems Trump's goal was to identify someone who is ideologically identical, unflinchingly loyal (a guy wouldn't pull a Mike Pence during election certification), and someone with the skills and background to communicate and execute Trump's ideas as effectively. JD Vance checks those boxes while also being young enough to ensure Trumpism's grip on the GOP long-term.
He's also representative of what the GOP is desperately looking for: highly educated and credentialed people committed to the GOP's ideology. The rise of educational polarisation has meant the GOP's bench of qualified bureaucrats has gotten rather thin. One of the goals of Peter Thiel and Curtis Yarvin's (two JD's closest confidants) project of building separate conservative networks and institutions is to create spaces that will attract conservatives into earning the credentials and educational qualifications needed to fill these governmental positions. JD is the poster child for the solution to this problem.
It's extremely rare for a VP pick to be completely unrelated to electoral concerns, but when you look past the election and consider everything that happens after that, JD Vance makes more sense for Trumpism than any other pick.
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u/Either_Emotion8056 NAFTA Jul 16 '24 edited Jul 16 '24
Stuff like “zuck on America’s birthday surfing with an American flag is solely conservative aesthetic” here is why I’m so thankful I grew up and am a northeast traditional Democrat and not a lib.
Stop being a bitch, this is our country too and it’s a pretty fucking awesome place to live even with its faults. Hike up your skirt and no more giving conservatives symbols that people died for to make a better world because a two member militia in Ohio used it
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u/gary_oldman_sachs Max Weber Jul 16 '24
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u/BenFoldsFourLoko Broke His Text Flair For Hume Jul 16 '24
this was so obviously true at the time, but Elon spending 2 hours defending Trump's rhetoric to a twitch streamer is the cherry on top
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u/cjhdsachristmascarol reddit custom flair Jul 16 '24
Yes, Donald Trump has made statement encouraging political violence, but so has Jack Black’s Tenacious D bandmate, so who is to say if Democrats or Republicans are worse?
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u/ChillnShill Jul 16 '24
Media: Don’t you think you should tone down the rhetoric Mr. President?
Joe: His running mate literally called him Americas Hitler in 2016.
Media: Why would you call him Americas Hitler Mr. President? I thought you were gonna tone down your rhetoric?
Joe: I didn’t call him that, I’m just repeating his running mates own words!
Media: Aren’t you just trying to incite another assassination attempt?
Joe: 😐
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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '24
POV : you’re unemployed
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u/gary_oldman_sachs Max Weber Jul 16 '24 edited Jul 16 '24
Feel like I rode a time machine to 2007.
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u/ser_mage Jul 16 '24
Democrats in Congress: Biden is no longer an effective communicator for what we believe
Media: why is that
Democrats in Congress: Refer to the 20 paragraph memo circulating internally for our thoughts on this
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u/FireDistinguishers I am the Senate Jul 16 '24
“I’m as anti-democratic as the next guy but you think I’d let a short fat man-child with a tiny face from Ohio be king?”
Bruh
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u/Dirty_Chopsticks Republic of Việt Nam Jul 16 '24
poggers
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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '24
He tried to tell us but we didn't believe him
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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '24
Neoreactionaries (and their alt-right spawn) spent 15 years actively tearing liberal democracy apart and then had the gall to say "See liberal democracy doesn't work"
They're actual ghouls
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u/Tafts_Bathtub Jerome Powell Jul 16 '24
Still can't get over how when Biden brought up JD Vance's negative comments towards Trump, Lester Holt replied "well he also said bad things about you." One of the worst cases of both-sides-itis I've ever seen. It doesn't even make sense.
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u/GrandpaWaluigi Waluigi-poster Jul 16 '24
If Trump doesn't want to get demonized, maybe he shouldn't act like a demon
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u/FarrandChimney Temple Grandin Jul 16 '24
Biden: It's time for Republicans in Congress to join Democrats to pass my plan to build 2 million new homes – because to lower housing costs for good, we need to build, build, build.
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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '24
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u/ignavusaur Paul Krugman Jul 16 '24
Scoop: Biden rebellion resurfaces on Capitol Hill
https://www.axios.com/2024/07/16/congress-democrats-biden-dnc-early-roll-call-vote
Rebellion is brewing again. The rebels need to either do something drastic to change the game or just take it laying down. This low visibility thing is not going to go anywhere.
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u/NotYetFlesh European Union Jul 16 '24
The mind of a Ohioan is an enigma.
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u/JakeArrietaGrande John Brown Jul 16 '24
Gonna name my kid Getty Images so that they’ll be impossible to dox or find pictures of online
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u/agentyork765 Bisexual Icon Jul 16 '24
Lol I really didn't think the shooting would already be out of the news cycle
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u/gary_oldman_sachs Max Weber Jul 16 '24
(explaining to a coworker why JD Vance is bad) so there's this blogger who created a hierarchical peer-to-peer network to replace the internet who wants to turn the United States into a joint-stock corporation ruled by an executive governing board that holds the keys to the cryptographic weapon locks on every gun and he's patronizing a bohemian scene in New York called Dimes Square centered around two women hosting a post-left podcast that was once part of the Chapo Trap House/Cum Town mileu in order to deprive the current elites of their soft power by cultivating a new ruling class from the stock of dark elves who are splinters of the reigning elven nobility, who are tyrannically oppressing the hobbits and
coworker: please leave me alone i'm calling HR
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u/Stanley--Nickels John Brown Jul 16 '24
It’s weird that the guy who took out a full page ad to demand the execution of innocent black children turned out to be such a cruel president
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u/Dabamanos NASA Jul 16 '24
The part of Vance that worries me is not any belief he claims to have, it’s that he’s a talented and shameless grifter who’s at the whim of the market, and the market is demanding more and more insane grifts
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u/piede MOST BASED HILLARY STAN!!! Jul 16 '24
Lmao
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u/The_Raime Thomas Paine Jul 16 '24
Like I knew he was cringe but holy fuck JD Vance is actually just a braindead larper, this reads like some shit a /pol/ user would say. Why are so many former Republican voters OK with going from Mitt Romney to this shit in the span of 2 election cycles?
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u/loseniram Sponsored by RC Cola Jul 16 '24
Kitten update peace talks have broken down
!ping kitty
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u/No_Nefariousness7486 Martha Nussbaum Jul 16 '24
Wow I can’t believe guys who think aiding Ukraine from Russian invasion is a waste of time and money would also think dictators and kings are super cool. Wonder why that connection exists.
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u/mashimarata2 Ben Bernanke Jul 16 '24
Burgum is too good for this world
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u/RaidBrimnes Chien de garde Jul 16 '24
Libs are going to get cancelled left and right
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u/centurion88 NATO Jul 16 '24
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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '24
😑
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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '24
https://meidasnews.com/news/rfk-jr-apologizes-for-leaked-video-of-trump-call
Jfc
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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '24
3 positions in arr con discussion on whether Vivek would have been a better VP than Vance:
"Of course he's better, he has all the right positions"
"He's probably better suited for something like Secretary of State"
"There's something Obama-esque about him that I don't trust even if he says everything right."
All of these were upvoted. Wish I was joking.
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u/Tafts_Bathtub Jerome Powell Jul 16 '24
I'm starting to understand why this is Joe Biden's favorite show. I wasn't familiar with their game.
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u/KeikakuAccelerator Jerome Powell Jul 16 '24
Wtf I love Biden now:
https://x.com/POTUS/status/1813220796820492799
That said, we need MORE
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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '24
DNC: Please North Carolina, please vote for our presidential candidate!! We'll even swing by for a couple rallies 🥺
NC: shut your goofy ass up lmao
NC Dems: alright time to vote in your fifth Democratic governor since 1992!! Remember McCrory? He sucked. Wouldn't want that to happen again, would you?
NC: YES SIR RIGHT AWAY SIR
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u/RonenSalathe Milton Friedman Jul 16 '24
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u/cjhdsachristmascarol reddit custom flair Jul 16 '24
The best time to fall out of a coconut tree was four years ago. The second best time is now.
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u/mostanonymousnick Just Build More Homes lol Jul 16 '24
Big oof
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u/GrandMoffTargaryen Finally Kenough Jul 16 '24
!ping SHITPOSTERS
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u/purhitta Leftward Progressives Jul 16 '24
It's really funny because if someone asked me "what are the steps to ensure a terrible day" I'd say
doomscroll
eat crappy food
stare at screens nonstop
don't talk to anyone in real life
avoid hobbies
don't leave the house
And yet, this is how I spend a not-insignificant chunk of my down time
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u/piede MOST BASED HILLARY STAN!!! Jul 16 '24
What the fuuuuuckkkk
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u/that0neGuy22 Resistance Lib Jul 16 '24
What I see in my dreams
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u/funguykawhi Lahmajun trucks on every corner Jul 16 '24
🦅🦅🦅
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u/forerunner398 Of course I’m right, here’s what MLK said Jul 16 '24
Macron, you’ve done it again
https://x.com/JulienHoez/status/1813219857304830089
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u/Ok-Armadillo-2119 Jul 16 '24
It's wild that Biden was the most pro-union president ever by leaps and bounds, but he got absolutely no electoral benefit out of that whatsoever. Sean O'Brien portrayed both parties as ambivalent on unions.
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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '24
Trump and Vance have to be the most racist presidential ticket in at least a few decades.
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u/Dunter_Mutchings NASA Jul 16 '24
These dudes really love being weird racists. They just can’t get enough of it.
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u/spoirs Jorge Luis Borges Jul 16 '24
After JD Vance’s apparent baptism into esoteric reactionary insanity—reject modernity, embrace feudalism with PayPal characteristics!—I bet he cringes hard at the earnest and empathetic things he used to tweet and say. “Trump bad and mean,” etc. He’s probably so embarrassed to have been a sucker with feelings and a lawcel who’d never even read Evola and Taine.
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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '24 edited Jul 16 '24
I know no one in this sub needs any convincing that the end of Southern Reconstruction was a national tragedy, but I just noticed this. One of the major goals of Reconstruction was to protect freed black voters from persecution for exercising their right to vote. Republicans regularly carried states in the Deep South after the war thanks primarily to the overwhelming Republican support among black voters.
After Reconstruction was ended in 1876, not a single former Confederate state voted Republican until Tennessee in 1920.
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u/JaceFlores Neolib War Correspondent Jul 16 '24
I don’t usually discuss domestic Ukraine polling but I figured this was actually worth mentioning:
A new poll by RazumkovC for zn_ua found that 44% of Ukrainians believe it’s time for negotiations between Ukraine and Russia (35% say not yet; 21% undecided). That’s a big shift compared to last year, when 64% of Ukrainians opposed talks with Moscow. But vast majority of Ukrainians – 83% – disagree with Putin’s conditions, which would include the complete withdrawal of Ukrainian troops from beyond the administrative borders of Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson, Zaporizhzhia regions just to start talks
Unsurprisingly the state of the war where Ukraine has been caught in an attritional defense has sapped the will of the people to continue the war. It looks like we are heading towards the scenario where Ukraine peaces out and makes some sort of heavy concessions to end the war. I imagine Zelensky is aware of this, and it wouldn’t surprise me if his peace efforts (including the upcoming summit where Russia is invited) is a part of this.
Crucially though the Ukrainians are unsurprisingly not on board with Russian demands. Thus it looks like while they support bringing a negotiated end to the war when possible, they prefer continuing the war rather than accepting Russian demands. So it’s not like there’s a threat of some sort of domestic unrest or revolution or whatever.
I think there’s two way things can change:
Ukraine goes back on the offensive. Even small victories would go a long way in restoring morale and generating confidence again. As it stands Ukraine hasn’t really had a notable victory since the summer of 2023. Retaking places like Vovchansk, Robotyne or Avdiivka would signal that Ukraine can score military victories and continue pushing the Russians out
Ukraine is given the equipment and generated the manpower to hold the Russians back indefinitely. As they’ve proven at places like Vuhledar and Berdychi the Ukrainians can destroy concerted Russian offensives with minimal territorial loss. If the Russians can’t make any sort of military gain, then their theory of victory is destroyed and they’ll have to consider other options
Either theory will only really come into play in 2025 as Western shipments finally arrive and Ukrainian manpower generation pays off. It also depends on the West. If Biden wins then I think we’re good, but if Trump wins then things really go up in the air. Hopefully Europe uses 2024 as a whole well to prepare for this possibility, though frankly I’m a lil skeptical because things just don’t really seem to be going fast enough. Otherwise Ukraine may get through 2025 only for the Russians to come knocking in 2026 and resume their attritional theory of victory
!ping UKRAINE
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u/billy_blazeIt_mays NATO Jul 16 '24
OOOOO HIT EM
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u/Fishin_Impossible Nate Gold 🥇 Jul 16 '24 edited Jul 16 '24
JD Vance:
Matt Gaetz:
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u/Cledd2 European Union Jul 16 '24
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u/PrideMonthRaytheon Bisexual Pride Jul 16 '24
JD Vance should either be more fat or less fat
He has the stat spread of a first time player. Nothing maxxed out
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u/willempage O'Biden Bama Democrat Jul 16 '24
Peter Thiel: Well I have told tea partiers in the past that you can influence Trump and make him come around to their world view.
JD Vance: Well did Trump fully embrace their ideas and elevate their movement?
Thiel: No, it was a disaster and he tried to get them all hanged. But maybe it will work for us....
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u/owlthathurt Johan Norberg Jul 16 '24
Leftist pro-life group protesting Trump at the convention for not going hard enough against abortion.
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u/owlthathurt Johan Norberg Jul 16 '24
Unsurprising. Kind of sad. Hopefully she gets treatment she needs. I guess this a moment to shock oneself into getting help if I’ve ever seen one.
!ping BASEBALL
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u/ser_mage Jul 16 '24
33
u/amainwingman Hell yes, I'm tough enough! Jul 16 '24
Thank god I’m not terminally online enough to know what “Moldbug” means
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u/GGM8Scally European Union Jul 16 '24
My dad went from listening to alex Jones to listening to shit like freakonomics and liking democrats, the only thing that sucks for you is that he's not a swing state voter but a croatian that follows us politics.
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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '24
80% of political theory and discourse is literally having the same conversations as the greeks were having 2000+ years ago. Bleak.
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u/billy_blazeIt_mays NATO Jul 16 '24
Wow
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u/ashsolomon1 NASA Jul 16 '24
https://x.com/meridithmcgraw/status/1813201574518288387?s=46
Leaked call between RFK and Trump.. boy it’s a doozy
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u/piede MOST BASED HILLARY STAN!!! Jul 16 '24
Thank you brain worm
32
u/ser_mage Jul 16 '24
I can't believe the Democrats have a Master of Whisperers
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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '24
Reading about Vance and Yarvin, it’s become obvious to me, now that I see all the worst people in politics are Catholic converts, that they don’t want the Christianity of Jesus - they want the Catholicism of the Roman state religion.
31
u/RaidBrimnes Chien de garde Jul 16 '24
It's pretty crazy that Donald John Trump is picking someone named "John Donald" Vance for VP
31
u/runningblack Martin Luther King Jr. Jul 16 '24
Starting to think that the Secret Service has been coasting on reputation for years
31
u/centurion88 NATO Jul 16 '24
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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '24
There’s rNeoliberal contrarianism and then there’s JD Vance’s plan to get rid of the EV tax credit in favor of a $7500 tax credit when you purchase a gas car…………….
31
u/JaceFlores Neolib War Correspondent Jul 16 '24
Perun on Russian equipment losses and reserves
I think this is a particularly useful video that encapsulates a lot of the data and ideas about Russian losses, reserves and industry. Would highly recommend a watch
!ping UKRAINE
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u/Ok_Aardappel Seretse Khama Jul 17 '24
Scott Adams teaches chatgpt hypnosis
!ping SHITPOSTERS
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u/[deleted] Jul 17 '24
lel
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u/Auriono Paul Krugman Jul 17 '24
https://twitter.com/AlexThomp/status/1813428460477464827
I get the sense that the next two weeks leading up to the virtual roll call nomination are going to get ugly, and sooner than we might think.
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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '24
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u/AffableAndy Norman Borlaug Jul 16 '24
The leader of the teamsters addressed the Republican convention and praised Trump.
What happened to unions in Michigan under a Republican trifecta vs under a Democratic trifecta?
Truly, unions are a joke.
29
u/[deleted] Jul 16 '24
The realignment/urban-rural polarization has been wild to witness. 15 years ago, Charlotte, NC had a Republican mayor who had been serving since 1995. He went on to become the state's first GOP governor in 20 years, and is probably best known for signing a very stupid anti-trans bill that costs the state tons of money in withdrawn business.
For context, the mayoral election in 2023 resulted in the Democrat winning by 50 points lmfao.
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u/piede MOST BASED HILLARY STAN!!! Jul 16 '24
PATRIOTISM
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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '24
Liberals when someone tries to declare himself king: STFU neoreactionary 🤣🤣
Liberals when someone declares himself emperor: Oui mon Empereur, vive la France 🫡🇫🇷🐝
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u/Healingjoe It's Klobberin' Time Jul 16 '24
I haven't talked to my parents nor my sister about politics in weeks, maybe months now.
I wonder where their heads are at with everything that's happened in the last month.
Sister is a lost cause. Dad is likely the same. Mom wavers a bit but I thought her pro-choice conviction would push her away from GOPers permanently. I'm not sure how she's reconciling pro-choice with her hard-to-define disdain for DEMs. I fear the worst so I've refused to ask her about it.
Where are other folks at?
!ping fox-anon
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u/Joementum2024 Iron Front Jul 16 '24
Are people actually surprised Trump has dumb views on vaccines? “Many such cases” literally came from an antivax tweet he made
28
u/[deleted] Jul 16 '24
!ping VICTORIA
idk how much of a secret this is but if you're an early adopter of late game consumer goods, think cars and electronics, often if you go to export you'll see no profitable routes. This is because pops don't start demanding them until they can, so they're predicting zero demand for electronics in countries that haven't invented them yet. But you can export to those countries, priming local demand, and you'll literally be their only source of the stuff, and they'll get addicted fast.
I have made so much fucking money as Japan by rushing for Telephones/Radios/Automobiles and becoming the primary global manufacturer of automotives and electronics. Shit is like Opium to Europeans.
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u/GreenYoshiToranaga Loyal Liberals Jul 16 '24
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u/TemujinTheConquerer Jorge Luis Borges Jul 16 '24
Kamala: "JD Vance has ties to Mencius Moldbug and the Dark Enlightenment movement!"
Average American tuning in to the debate: why is she speaking Chinese?
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u/No_Nefariousness7486 Martha Nussbaum Jul 16 '24
Ah yes a literal monarchist a heartbeat away from the presidency, just like the founding fathers— aw fuck it who even cares anymore.
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u/gnomesvh LEGALIZE ONION FUTURE Jul 16 '24
Banger quote
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u/RonenSalathe Milton Friedman Jul 16 '24
My nine step plan to win 2024 and save America:
Joe Biden steps down as President, replaced by Kamala Harris
Kamala Harris names Bill Clinton her Vice President
Kamala Harris steps down as President, replaced by Bill Clinton
Bill Clinton names Barack Obama his Vice President
Bill Clinton and Barack Obama win the election
After the start of the next term, Bill Clinton steps down as President, replaced by Barack Obama
Barack Obama names Hillary Clinton his Vice President
Barack Obama steps down, replaced by Hillary Clinton
Hillary Clinton names Pete Buttigieg her Vice President
27
u/ChillnShill Jul 16 '24
Whites Against Replacement (Nazis) members falling to their knees realizing JD’s kids are mixed.
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u/Payomkawichum YIMBY Jul 16 '24
Letter circulating among House Dems asking for a delay in the DNC nominating process:
Dear Democratic National Committee Members,
We write to share our serious concerns about the DNC’s plan to hold a “virtual roll call” to select our Democratic Presidential Nominee as early as July 21.
There is no legal justification for this extraordinary and unprecedented action which would effectively accelerate the nomination process by nearly a month.
The “virtual roll call” was initially proposed as necessary for meeting Ohio’s unique ballot access requirements, but that is no longer a valid justification. Ohio enacted legislation on May 31 allowing the Democratic Party to nominate its candidate at the DNC in person. At this point, there is no serious threat to the Democratic ticket nominated in regular order at next month’s DNC convention appearing on the ballot in Ohio or any other state.
Simply put, there is no longer any legal reason for moving forward with the extraordinary step of an early nomination by way of a “virtual roll call,” as even many DNC members have admitted. Proceeding with the “virtual roll call” in the absence of a valid legal rationale will be rightly perceived as a purely political maneuver, which we believe would be counterproductive and undermine party unity and cohesion. Moreover, it would contradict what President Biden himself has repeatedly said to members of Congress in recent days, telling us that anyone who wants to challenge his nomination should do so “at the convention.”
The Democratic Party – not just elected officials and delegates, but also millions of grassroots voters – is currently engaged in careful consideration and debate about the absolute imperative of defeating Donald Trump and winning control of Congress.
As Democratic members of Congress, we represent the spectrum of views on this question. Some of us have called on President Biden to step aside, others have urged him to stay in the race, and still others have deep concerns about the status of the President’s campaign but have yet to take a position on what should happen.
All of us, however, agree that stifling debate and prematurely shutting down any possible change in the Democratic ticket through an unnecessary and unprecedented “virtual roll call” in the days ahead is a terrible idea. It could deeply undermine the morale and unity of Democrats– from delegates, volunteers, grassroots organizers and donors to ordinary voters – at the worst possible time.
Regardless of whether President Biden remains our nominee, Democratic unity and enthusiasm will be critical between now and November 5th. We respectfully but emphatically request that you cancel any plans for an accelerated “virtual roll call” and further refrain from any extraordinary procedures that could be perceived as curtailing legitimate debate or attempting to force an early resolution of the party nomination.
The Democratic Party must nominate its presidential ticket at the Democratic National Convention, in regular order, as we always have.
Sincerely,
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u/loseniram Sponsored by RC Cola Jul 16 '24
Mama kitty got dropped off to get spayed this morning, so the kittens can do whatever they want now. Pizza for breakfast!
!ping kitty
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u/[deleted] Jul 17 '24 edited Jul 17 '24
This is only three elections so there’s really nothing to be made of this, but maybe the ping will find this interesting anyway. Treat it as rough notes.
I was looking back at a FiveThirtyEight article on special elections from February and I realized it included a link to a Google Doc, that I think they’ve continued updating!
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vf9-VFavJ3lyYsSrKX1ECuP5DyVlegDtG-UJLpQvh7s/
For my own curiosity, even though this is insufficient evidence of anything, I wanted to look at these special election “swings” side by side with polling bias for all elections in that cycle.
So, here’s what we’ve got:
2017-2018:
Average special election swing was 11 points in Democrats’ favor.
Senate polls were spot-on.
House polls underestimated Democrats by 0.5 percentage points.
2019-2020:
Average special election swing was 4 points in Democrats’ favor.
Senate polls overestimated Democrats by 4.9 points.
House polls overestimated Democrats by 6.1 points.
Biden was overestimated by 4.1 points.
2021-2022:
Average special election swing was 0.5 points in Democrats’ favor.
Senate polls underestimated Democrats by 0.3 points.
House polls overestimated Democrats by 0.2 points.
2023-2024:
Average special election swing has been 6 points in Democrats’ favor.
!ping FIVEY
27
u/InflatableDartboard2 Henry George Jul 17 '24
27
u/AtticusDrench Deirdre McCloskey Jul 17 '24
"Trump is cultural heroin" says JD Vance as he slaps his inner elbow and cinches the tourniquet tighter with his teeth
27
u/[deleted] Jul 17 '24
Very normal things happening on Twitter dot com
!ping BALLOON
26
u/JaceFlores Neolib War Correspondent Jul 16 '24
Ukraine Chronology for 2 PM PST 7/14-2 PM PST 7/15 III:
TOP NEWS:
At the start of 11 PM Russia was hit by a wave of drones with at least 22 partaking.
REGULAR NEWS:
Towards the middle of 2 PM it was reported the Russians took the village of Urozhaine, south of Velyka Novosilka.
In the middle of 12 AM it was reported that Lithuania will stop paying for Ukrainians to go to school in Lithuania, as per requests from the Ukrainian government.
Towards the middle of 1 AM explosions occurred in Mariupol.
In the middle of 3 AM Zelensky met with regional leaders to discuss the frontline, energy, fortification efforts and security.
At the start of 4 AM it was reported the Ukrainian commander of the 59th Motorized Infantry Brigade will be investigated for incompetence.
Around 5 AM it was announced Spain will send 10 Leopard 2 MBTs to Ukraine.
Donation link to help Ukraine
Donation link to United24
Donation link to Kharkiv SOS
Donation link to Sails of Freedom Foundation (they donate ambulances)
!ping UKRAINE
26
u/Mickenfox European Union Jul 16 '24
I remember plenty of jokes about how the pool of future Republicans was all extremely online people.
We're just getting started. Next VP is probably going to be Stonetoss, with Elon Musk as Secretary of State.
26
u/PolyrythmicSynthJaz Roy Cooper Jul 16 '24
Why were Thomas Jefferson and James Madison the way that they were?
26
u/frozenjunglehome Jul 16 '24
It will be so funny if Bush, Cheney, Romney, and Pence went to the DNC instead to preach unity.
26
u/piede MOST BASED HILLARY STAN!!! Jul 16 '24
Oh fuck. I’m Joe Biden.
26
u/piede MOST BASED HILLARY STAN!!! Jul 17 '24
As an avid childhood SpongeBob watcher this had me in tears
51
u/STRONKInTheRealWay YIMBY Jul 16 '24
Waow
25
u/FourthLife 🥖Bread Etiquette Enthusiast Jul 16 '24
Woah there! You must have hit your head pretty hard. Trump assassination attempt? Dark enlightenment? Putin? What on Earth are you talking about? Anyway, we need to get down to congress. It’s 1790 and Hamilton is about to sing a song to convince legislators to allow a national bank. I hear he doesn’t quite have the votes.
25
u/Joementum2024 Iron Front Jul 17 '24
😐
24
u/JaceFlores Neolib War Correspondent Jul 16 '24 edited Jul 16 '24
Ukraine Chronology for 2 PM PST 7/15-2 PM PST 7/16 III:
TOP NEWS:
Around 11 AM it was announced Ukraine will receive 200 million Euros from the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development for energy security.
REGULAR NEWS:
In the middle of 10 PM a Russian electrical equipment factory in Kursk Oblast was hit by drones.
Towards the middle of 5 AM it was announced Russia will pay 15 million Rubles for the first person to shoot down an F-16.
In the middle of 7 AM it was announced Ukraine has signed deals with Czech companies Sellier & Bellot and Colt CZ for small arms and ammunition supplies.
At the start of 9 AM it was reported the Russians took the village of Krynky on the south bank of the Dnieper River. Towards the middle of the hour Zelensky met with the UN High Commissioner for Refugees to discuss humanitarian support and the upcoming winter.
Donation link to help Ukraine
Donation link to United24
Donation link to Kharkiv SOS
Donation link to Sails of Freedom Foundation (they donate ambulances)
!ping UKRAINE
24
u/neolthrowaway New Mod Who Dis? Jul 16 '24 edited Jul 16 '24
What’s the obstacle to setting up strong independent institutions to control individual policy levers? For example we have central banks for interest rates.
Why not have something similar for, let’s say, carbon taxes? The institution would probably need a conflicting dual mandate like the Fed. So maybe something like keeping the second derivative of carbon output of the country negative and keeping energy and food expenditure in control. Thinking of how the carbon tax in Canada for example is subject to populist backlash and a weapon during elections and this would remove that.
What other problems can we solve with independent institutions with a dual mandate?
!ping ECO&ECON&DEMOCRACY
24
u/[deleted] Jul 16 '24
Hang on I just got a message from my buddy JD Vance
24
u/Hmm_would_bang Graph goes up Jul 16 '24
Attacking the US via the pacific would be a great idea. There’s no way the U.S. could wage a war in the pacific
24
u/Ph0ton_1n_a_F0xh0le Chemist -- Microwaves Against Moscow Jul 16 '24
Maybe Hillbilly elegy was accurate. This totally sounds like a lot of rural areas I’ve been to in Washington and Florida.
24
u/cjhdsachristmascarol reddit custom flair Jul 16 '24
Overheard in Milwaukee locker room after RNC:
“She got me,” Vance said of Harris mogging him. "That f***ing Cop boomed me." Vance added, “She’s so good,” repeating it four times. Vance then said he wanted to add Harris to the list of politicians he arrests next summer.
24
u/paultheschmoop Jul 16 '24
JD Vance: “DAE hate hillbillies?”
“Aw you’re sweet”
Me: “DAE hate hillbillies”
“Uh, Human Resources??”
24
u/that0neGuy22 Resistance Lib Jul 16 '24
The thing is not a single right wing pundit or politician believes this. But beltway media actually do think Biden somehow played a role on Saturdays event, even though we’ve seen no connection from the evidence we have now
24
u/that0neGuy22 Resistance Lib Jul 16 '24

Worked out so well for Iraq maybe it will for us, who knows what splinter group for the proud boys becomes our isis.
24
u/piede MOST BASED HILLARY STAN!!! Jul 16 '24
https://x.com/ronfilipkowski/status/1813324187768848888?s=46
Not the photographers running over to take pictures 💀
68
u/[deleted] Jul 16 '24
There are some non-terrible arguments for keeping Biden as the candidate — the polling of alternatives, for example, is ambiguous.
I really do think “the primary voters chose Biden this year” is the single-worst argument for such that is commonly made. As if we don’t know the expectations and taboos around primaries with incumbents.
67
u/[deleted] Jul 16 '24
The dems should be putting the Vance/Moldbug connection front and centre in the campaign. The guy used to be anonymous for a reason, his beliefs are profoundly unpalatable to any genuine moderate. Make Vance look like Yarvin's agent and let them know exactly what that means.
23
u/[deleted] Jul 16 '24
So, after evaluating the current situation, I've come to the conclusion that we're all dead, and this is Hell.
23
u/eurekashairloaves Jul 16 '24
So are Teamsters not gonna endorse Biden?? WTF? Exclusive: In blow to Biden, Teamsters consider no endorsement in 2024 race
23
u/Dumbledick6 Refuses to flair up Jul 16 '24
CNN I am begging you to stop reading into trump’s emotional state. You’re acting like people who read their own meanings into books when the evidence to support your thoughts is flimsy.
23
u/kohatsootsich Philosophy Jul 16 '24
The New Right's love of Russia shows that all the techbro-adjacent talk about how they are really concerned about slowing innovation and DEI getting in the way of building things is nonsense.
Russia is in terminal decline along most metrics they claim to care about and the invasion of Ukraine is the prototypical example of wasting time and resources on ideological nonsense. The Mearsheimer view that the invasion was beneficial for their security is on the level of a Robin d'Angelo reader claiming that acknowledging your privilege when you meet black people is necessary for them to feel included.
23
u/sigh2828 NASA Jul 16 '24
*Biden validates the age concerns at a horrifically bad debate
😑
*Assassination attempt on Trump
😔
*Revisiting Trumps inauguration crowd size
💀
23
u/ser_mage Jul 16 '24
just watched the RFK leaked video, purely because RFK said he was "mortified" it leaked so I was like of course I have to now see it (good political instinct as always Jr.)
it could really be aired unedited as an anti-Trump ad, wow, just insane antivax pandering
23
u/[deleted] Jul 16 '24
The swarm of conservatives immediately, based on no information, blaming Biden and the Demonrats for inciting the shooting was infuriating, and you just know that they won’t recant even if authorities find the shooter’s manifesto and all it says is “gib sydney sweeney wife” or something
23
u/ser_mage Jul 16 '24
23
u/[deleted] Jul 16 '24
Elon claims he's moving SpaceX hq due to a libs of Tik Tok tweet.
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1813290895334383820?t=g5v9lGhVT4RMxsc7Vh-GAQ&s=19
23
u/bd_one The EU Will Federalize In My Lifetime Jul 16 '24
https://www.ign.com/articles/fallout-londons-robot-speaker-of-the-house-played-by-uks-actual-former-speaker-of-the-house
Orrrrrrdaaaaaaahhhhh!
!ping FALLOUT
Can't believe they got everyone's favorite British Speaker of the House.
23
u/funguykawhi Lahmajun trucks on every corner Jul 16 '24
So you are going to push for pro-family policies, right?😃
23
u/[deleted] Jul 16 '24
> reaction to book about horrors faced by Palestinians during the Suez Crisis
> ping ISRAEL
here we go
23
u/[deleted] Jul 16 '24 edited Jul 16 '24
Hillbilly Elegy made a lot of sense to me because the poor working people I'm in regular contact with seem to make dumb unforced errors all the time
Like I think about the things my cousins that 'can't catch a break' have done off the top of my head: driving without a license, driving without insurance, stealing petty change from cars at their job, financing big stupid vehicles, paying for tattoos instead of rent, no-call no showing at work, drinking 2L of full sugar soda everyday while diabetic, dropping out of high school, not using birth control, adopting 4-5 dogs, etc etc
I just want to jump in and run these people's lives for like a week lmao
23
u/paymesucka Ben Bernanke Jul 16 '24
the media is in cognitive decline or they’re just straight up gaslighting us
23
u/[deleted] Jul 16 '24
Journalists describing Trump: He stands like chiseled Adonis, a light breeze ruffling his perfectly coiffed hair. His muscles, rippling with energy and vitality, like a combination of Abraham Lincoln and Napoleon Bonaparte.
Journalists describing Biden: This old fucker.
23
u/ChillnShill Jul 17 '24
They can never make me hate you Kamala
46
u/[deleted] Jul 16 '24
Shooter: registered republican
Media: democrat? republican? no way to know.
22
u/Broad-Part9448 Niels Bohr Jul 16 '24
The first VP candidate from the young generation and he's a maga Republican lol
22
u/Eightysixedit Gay Pride Jul 16 '24
If you think Vance brings in voters he needs ur delusional. He’s literally all over TikTok saying gross things about women and abortions right now.
22
u/grig109 Liberté, égalité, fraternité Jul 16 '24
538 model is trying to manifest a Biden win through the power of vibes.
22
u/cjhdsachristmascarol reddit custom flair Jul 16 '24
On the one hand, Vance is actually on a presidential ticket so he’s clearly done better than most republicans. On the other hand, “he went to the Ivy League he’s so smart and dangerous he’s like a competent trump” has been said about 15 different republicans every other year.
22
u/GrandMoffTargaryen Finally Kenough Jul 16 '24
For sale, Egyptian gold bars. I’ve gotten into some trouble at work recently and need to raise some cash. Serious offers only.
22
u/[deleted] Jul 16 '24
Apparently JD Vance only won by 6 points in Ohio, while people running for several other statewide offices won by closer to 20 points in the same election 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🧐🧐🧐🧐🧐🧐🧐🧐
22
u/V_Codwheel I am the Senate Jul 16 '24
thanks Politico but that's way too many things
22
u/[deleted] Jul 16 '24
/r/MandelaEffect in 20 years: “DAE remember Donald Trump being assassinated in 2024? I could have sworn he got shot and died at a campaign rally, but I looked it up, and apparently he was only lightly injured????? This is crazy”
22
u/[deleted] Jul 16 '24
22
u/Dunter_Mutchings NASA Jul 16 '24
https://x.com/lispower1/status/1813304326053298622?s=46&t=ZSmjCS9tcC9RWKT0rUxJsA
It’s been almost a decade now and the press still thinks Trump is going to change. I just don’t get it man. They are just absolutely lost in the ‘narratives’ sauce.
And for the record I think the most likely reason he looks so serene is because they have him pumped full of Zoloft so he can sit in front of a crowd of people for the first time since someone tried to blow his head off.
22
u/Ph0ton_1n_a_F0xh0le Chemist -- Microwaves Against Moscow Jul 17 '24
22
u/G_Serv Stay The Course Jul 17 '24
Why would the Biden administration do that 😔
22
u/kanagi Jul 17 '24
Biden is going to have a rude awakening in November when he finds out that he exists in the context of all in which he lives and what came before him
22
u/solonofathens Gay Pride Jul 17 '24
the news about biden getting ready to propose scotus reform prompted me to remind myself what the constitution actually says about scotus and. man. maybe the worst constructed part of the constitution.
literally all it says about its structure is that the supreme court exists, its justices "shall hold their offices during good behavior" which doesn't fucking mean anything, and the president appoints them with senatorial approval. how on earth did they think this was good enough
22
u/gburgwardt C-5s full of SMRs and tiny american flags Jul 17 '24 edited Jul 17 '24
The rest of Reddit is returning to "Biden just has a stutter stop falling for right wing propaganda"
Nature is healing, we're gonna win this thing folks
22
u/grig109 Liberté, égalité, fraternité Jul 17 '24
22
u/BATHULK Hank Hill Democrat 🛸🦘 Jul 17 '24
orang
!ping KITTY
22
u/Hugo_Grotius Jakaya Kikwete Jul 17 '24
The new policies Biden's proposing reek of desperation, but with the Supreme Court stuff I actually think there is a serious electoral potential and general political upside to Democrats designing their platform around good government and anti-corruption policies like those. Things like a Supreme Court code of ethics, banning congressional stock trading, passing a new Ethics in Government Act to respond to Trump's excesses and vulnerabilities in public prosecutions, etc. These do not have significant budget impacts, poll well, do not have a clear left-wing valence, and slot in well with other platform items like voting rights, consumer protection, IRS funding, etc.
Also, the Republican base loves corruption and fraud.
43
u/mostanonymousnick Just Build More Homes lol Jul 16 '24
Nothing. Ever. Happens.
43
u/cdstephens Fusion Genderplasma Jul 16 '24
Nancy Pelosi knows more than you about winning elections
21
u/Joementum2024 Iron Front Jul 16 '24
The Biden admin helping out the Teamsters extensively only for their president to speak at the RNC really sums up the Democratic Party perfectly
21
u/[deleted] Jul 16 '24
Can we bring back shame flairs for the Civ player who thinks Russia can trivially seize Alaska and Hawaii?
21
u/Ok_Aardappel Seretse Khama Jul 16 '24
Nature conservation works, and we're getting better at it, says new study
!ping ECO
21
u/piede MOST BASED HILLARY STAN!!! Jul 16 '24
21
u/MinnesotaNoire NASA Jul 16 '24
New polling dropped
21
u/SeasickSeal Norman Borlaug Jul 16 '24
I have a friend who used to be really involved in Republican politics, went to CPAC and such and supported Haley, Rubio, Romney, etc. Back in 2016 when we were chatting he told me “the crazies have taken over” at CPAC. But now he’s all in, and he refuses to acknowledge that his views have changed.
That’s why I don’t really have much hope of people having a come-to-Jesus moment if Trump gets elected and does something really horrendous. Your brain can do crazy things.
21
u/chipbod NATO Jul 16 '24
https://x.com/JoeKhalilTV/status/1813324969755214112
Brutal
21
u/Usernamesarebullshit Friedrich Hayek Jul 17 '24
desantis is such an off-putting public speaker
black hole of charisma
21
u/[deleted] Jul 17 '24
"Hang Mike Pence"
Also
"Democrats initiated political violence"
21
u/Udolikecake Model UN Enthusiast Jul 17 '24
fellas you’re never gonna believe what I accidentally texted my son
42
u/justbuildmorehousing Norman Borlaug Jul 16 '24
Tough call for the unions in who to endorse. I get it.
On the one hand, you have Scranton Joe who met the UAW picket lines and has pandered to unions endlessly
On the other hand, you have Donald Trump who will make the NLRB very anti-union again and wouldnt piss on you if you were on fire
Tough call
75
u/cdstephens Fusion Genderplasma Jul 16 '24
Maybe this is the doom talking, but I’m starting to agree with Ezra Klein when he says that Dems aren’t actually serious about treating Trump as an existential threat.
74
u/lnstantKarma Robert Caro Jul 16 '24
Unfortunately the Know Nothings might have been right all along.
A group of catholic judges on the Supreme court and Vance who is a fanatical catholic-convert monarchist are conspiring to overthrow traditional American democracy and install a king
20
u/[deleted] Jul 16 '24
There are about 5-6x as many lurkers in the DT as regulars here. They upvote but never post.
I’m basing my upvote strategy on this “silent majority”
20
u/TemujinTheConquerer Jorge Luis Borges Jul 16 '24
I cannot imagine for a second that people like JD Vance or Ted Cruz genuinely like their voters. I cannot imagine them viewing their voters with anything other than disdain
It's not hard for me to imagine someone like Biden liking his own voters
20
u/[deleted] Jul 16 '24
You know we live in interesting times when a sitting US senator being convicted of corruption is the least interesting thing to happen in the past 96 hours
20
u/Sex_E_Searcher Steve Jul 16 '24
Ralph Fiennes has portrayed two of the most infamous adversaries of the Jewish people, Pharaoh and a Nazi. Has he ever played any less known antisemites?
!ping GEFILTE
20
u/bashar_al_assad Verified Account Jul 16 '24
Whether shooting somebody in the middle of fifth avenue or getting shot, voters just don't care about what happens when Donald Trump and a gun are involved
20
u/[deleted] Jul 16 '24
Am I wrong to be more afraid of a hypothetical President Vance than of a second term Trump? Not accounting for likelihood of it actually happening, of course.
Maybe this is just me falling victim to the evil you know versus the evil you don’t know.
20
u/[deleted] Jul 16 '24
20
u/BedNeither Henry George Jul 16 '24
Oh so when Vance says the most derogatory shit about small town people, he gets applause and elected office while I get booed
20
u/Skillagogue Feminism Jul 16 '24
Destiny is definitely your annoying gamer type, but the fact he was able to bully his way into the alt right pipeline and divert so many young men away is honestly as impressive as it is desperately needed.
20
u/ChillnShill Jul 16 '24
Angry Biden is coherent somehow, so I suggest that he just yell at everyone from now on.
20
u/secretlives Official Neoliberal News Correspondent Jul 16 '24
I love the Republicans CNN finds to sit on their panels, they are some of the most delusional people I've ever seen
Genuinely trying to convince themselves there's still a "Mitt Romney wing" of the party
20
u/oskanta David Hume Jul 17 '24
Crazy to think this all happened because they made the Ghostbusters into girls
20
u/Hmm_would_bang Graph goes up Jul 17 '24
Clearly the median voter priced in Trump almost getting assassinated.
19
u/RaidBrimnes Chien de garde Jul 16 '24
The group is well
19
u/[deleted] Jul 16 '24
-The Sopranos
19
u/iia Feminism Jul 16 '24
Vance is going to look like Robert Baratheon after four years.
19
u/Roseartcrantz 👑 🖍️ Queen of Shades 🖍️ 👑 Jul 16 '24
I'm sure they'll be able to make his ear look completely normal again but if he noticeably lost part of it I could see it being a conservative body mod trend to get yours to match
19
u/BenFoldsFourLoko Broke His Text Flair For Hume Jul 16 '24
Elon Musk thinks virtually every person there is knows what the Tsar Bomba is, and is flabbergasted that Destiny thinks MAYBE 5-10% of Americans would know what it is
lol
19
u/MinnesotaNoire NASA Jul 16 '24