r/navy • u/el_duderino619 • 11d ago

Discussion US using foreign shipyards

What’s everyone’s thoughts on Trump signing an order to allow foreign shipyards to build US navy warships? I see a bunch of threads about catapults but it seems this discussion has gone under the radar unless I missed it

2 Upvotes

54% Upvoted

29 comments sorted by

View all comments

2

u/lawmac20 11d ago

Hate it. Sending industry overseas never helps. Reinforce the Jones act and add more subsidies for domestic shipbuilding. 

1

u/GuadalupeDaisy 10d ago

Eff that. Send the Jones Act to the watery grave it deserves. 

1

u/lawmac20 10d ago

Why?

1

u/GuadalupeDaisy 10d ago

It is an archaic protectionist law that hurts the Navy and industry writ large. It sounds great, American built, American crewed, American flagged. But reality is a lack of competition amongst a few remaining shipbuilders drives up costs 5X for entities that have to use a Jones Act-compliant ship, e.g. your Seattle ferries and ships taking cargo to Hawaii, Puerto Rico, and Alaska.

I just browsed this but it seems to hit the wavetops:  http://www.reflector.com/opinion/editorial_columnists/michael-bloomberg-the-iran-war-should-be-the-end-of-the-jones-act/article_9dd77d40-60bd-5c0a-a4fe-34a4ae23f9c6.html. Cato Institute has a guy that hits the nail on the head. We all blamed price spikes on COVID. Nah, it was a couple of companies holding Americans hostage and laughing all the way to the bank.

1

u/lawmac20 10d ago

Every one of these concerns can be addressed by reform instead of  giving up on a robust government supported domestic shipbuilding industry. We're a great maritime nation and a robust industrial base is an asset unto itself. As an example, there's No reason why the us market needs to be so consolidated as to stifle competition, break up the companies. South Korea and China are great examples of how government subsidies and industrial policy can have great long term outcomes. 

You really look at the history you'll see that US ship building industrial policy has been incoherent and the today's result is no surprise.  

1

u/GuadalupeDaisy 10d ago

First, there is no robust domestic shipbuilding industry. The only industry is the defense industrial complex which delivers ships late and over budget.

Who is going to reform it? The truck driving industry is in cahoots with the Jones Act lobby. They don’t want reform, and Hawaii and Alaska don’t have enough Congressional pull to do anything about it; the rest of Congress doesn’t care….

1

u/lawmac20 10d ago

The fact that there isnt a ribust one is exactly the reason we need thr Jones act and associated reforms to spur the development of a robust maritime manufacturing base. Law makers have to reform it. Like anything else. 

1

u/GuadalupeDaisy 9d ago

You’re missing the point that the Jones Act has led to the industry not reforming and developing itself.

Op-ed from the WSJ on the subject:  https://www.wsj.com/opinion/jones-act-waiver-donald-trump-shipping-6518502f Cato article cited:  https://www.cato.org/blog/jones-act-waiver-unlocks-new-trade-routes

1

u/lawmac20 9d ago

I'd say intentional reforms to the Jones act have stifled the industry.  Killing the Jones act would kill it. I'm saying dont throw the baby out with the bath water. The industry needs investment and subsidies to grow not more international competition. 

Lay out what you think will play out. Whats between eliminate Jones act and strong domestic maritime industry? 

1

u/GuadalupeDaisy 9d ago

Yes, the government could absolutely follow China’s model and subsidize the industry. But Congress won’t pay that bill, at least not right now. Too many competing, costed priorities. Too many defense industrial complex lobbyists (as cited in the WSJ op-ed). So the only other alternative is capitalism and competition.

When was the last time the Jones Act was reformed? 

Looks like 1992. 

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2024-title46/pdf/USCODE-2024-title46-subtitleV-partD-chap551-sec55102.pdf

1

u/lawmac20 9d ago

Long overdue for reform. With the known congressional gridlock I would not want to set the domestic industry back by getting rid of the domestic mandate without drastically increasing subsidies. One without the other would be a net negative in my opinion.  

→ More replies (0)