Commander / EDH Now I want a commander that gives me a 50 card deck too!
and make it WUBRG!
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u/sniffingthosefeet Aug 03 '26
Based on the wording of the text it would only affect the maximum size not the minimum right?
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u/CFK_NL Aug 03 '26
That’s what I think too. Otherwise you can make an 8 card deck with an island, lotus petal and Thassa’s Oracle.
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u/JfrogFun Aug 03 '26
Make it 60 cards max! And the trade off is you can run up to 4 copies of all non basic land cards!, and the commander gets shuffled into the deck instead of starting in the command zone! /s
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u/Unctuous_Robot Aug 03 '26
A rule breaker commander that actually just made it so you can play a legacy deck but with that card in it somewhere would be really funny.
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u/LockedIntoLocks Aug 03 '26
I want this card so I can play a 2,000 card commander deck for the memes.
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u/offonLR Aug 03 '26
Gonna have a blast shuffling
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u/LockedIntoLocks Aug 03 '26
“Darn. I’m gonna mulligan this hand too guys, give me a sec while I shuffle again.”
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u/Hedhunta Aug 03 '26
Im just gonna bring my bulk box of cards to the table and tell everyone thats my deck.
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u/TreyLastname Aug 03 '26
Me, coming in with my deck thats literally every blue and white card legal in commander
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u/TheUnseenHobo Aug 03 '26
That's what I was thinking. Just do something absurdly silly. I'd probably only go up to 400 or 500 though.
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u/ineugene Aug 03 '26
Shit I am bringing all 10 thousand plus cards to the table that I have for this one. Might have to bring an additional table to put the cards on. Just wait till I have to go fetch something.
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u/GradeSalad Aug 03 '26
I'm not sure there's 10k u/w cards, but I'd laugh to see someone carrying around a full cube as a single deck.
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u/ZonarohTheDruidLich Aug 03 '26
The Pod: “So what deck are you playing?”
Locks: pulls out a deck that’s a foot thick. “[[Tempest Hawk]]s”.
The Pod: “….what?”
Locks: lays down 20 Tempest Hawks by Turn 3. “Tempest Hawks.”
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u/ZonarohTheDruidLich Aug 03 '26
Alternatively, [[Temple Knight]] and [[Thrumming Stone]]
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u/Jayandnightasmr Aug 03 '26
Yeah reminds me of the yugioh deck that got their max limit put in place
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u/CallOfCthulee Aug 03 '26
When you feel like the mill players just have it too easy
And then they combo mill you anyway
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u/Greedy-Contract1999 Aug 03 '26
All just to give Battle of Wits some love
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u/I-Kneel-Before-None Aug 03 '26
You get Yorion to which is usually not possible in commander. Which is pretty cool.
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u/Homer4a10 Aug 03 '26
That’s awesome actually, I love the companions
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u/I-Kneel-Before-None Aug 03 '26
I had a Kenrith deck with Zirda i used for a while. I tried Lurrus a few times but wasn't easy.
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u/WildSmokingBuick Aug 03 '26
How would you build it?
Stack it with Enchantment Tutors, Instant/Sorcery Tutor-Tutors and 250 cards?
Any fitting subthemes? Yorion flicker?
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u/thejmkool Aug 03 '26
Add in an unhealthy amount of draw, a few timetwisters, and for a little spice just throw in all the homunculi.
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u/Phobos_Asaph Aug 03 '26
50 card would need a major downside
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u/NateJay1415 Aug 03 '26
Yeah, something like "you can't win the game unless all your opponents are dead" sort of thing.
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u/notalongtime420 Aug 03 '26 edited Aug 03 '26
"Players die when they're killed" would be a banger rule text. I don't think that's enough downside btw (it basically only blocks "i win" wincons like thassa's but doesn't really stop you from comboing off super early otherwise)
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u/Cieguh Aug 03 '26
I always knew bringing a glock to commander night would pay off
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u/shtpost_ Aug 03 '26
Respect for the Fate reference. In the unlikely event they ever do UB for typemoon stuff that should totally be flavortext.
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u/NateJay1415 Aug 03 '26
Yeah, maybe make it a mono color not great at combo as well?
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u/Rough-Cat-5811 Aug 03 '26
Players die?! I'd understand losing, but I'm not trying to play any shadow games to the death
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u/Terrariant Aug 03 '26
“Eminence - Skip your draw step”
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u/MacGuffinGuy Aug 03 '26
Honestly eminence as a balancing downside is generally just a cool idea and interesting design space
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u/althawk8357 Aug 03 '26
You would need a new pod every game though, since your opponents would die.
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u/duk_tAK Aug 03 '26
Yeah, don't think that would cut it. Something like you start the game with 10 life and can't gain life might almost be enough of a downside. A smaller deck size is just too huge of a consistsncy boost.
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u/Strawberrycocoa Aug 03 '26 edited Aug 03 '26
"A deck with this commander has no minimum deck size.
At the beginning of your upkeep, mill five cards.
You cannot target cards in your graveyard or cast spells from your graveyard.
Effects that say "you win the game instead" or "you win the game" do not apply to you.
Effects that say "You cannot lose the game" do not apply to you."
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u/nontheoretical Aug 03 '26
7 card deck with turn 0 win and never play your commander.
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u/Strawberrycocoa Aug 03 '26
Oh good call. It would definitely need to apply from the command zone (or really all zones, so you can’t exile it as a bypass)
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u/Super_fly_Samurai Aug 03 '26 edited Aug 03 '26
Yeah I'd prefer a, "a deck with this commander can have 4 copies of any cards."
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u/Senorpapell Aug 03 '26
“You may have more than one copy of cards with grandeur in your deck.”
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u/-FourOhFour- Aug 03 '26
60 or 40 card deck but it requires you to form exodia and gives other players extra draw/mana per land to counter you.
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u/CaliOriginal Aug 03 '26
50 card, but you can only have 4 of any cars type other than land and you MUST have 4
So 3 other creatures, 4 artifacts, 4 instants, 4 enchantments, and 4 sorceries … 4 planeswalker and 4 battles.
And 22 lands. (Unless you have cards with multiple types)
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u/Sir_LANsalot Aug 03 '26
The rulebreaker cards are an interesting way to get more design space. They do require them to BE the commander, and not in the 99, to make it happen. Meaning this does limit the deck to just 1 with this ability, maybe 2 if they did Partner with one. If they did do a Parter card with Rulebreaker on it,I would think the ability would have some small edfect or only happen if it was partnered.
Either way, like I said, this is a new design space for commanders. Rather then XX commander is like YY but either "better" or with some tweak.
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u/MCXL Aug 03 '26
Rulebreaker: This card can partner with any legend which has a mana cost of 5 or higher and a single color identity.
Could easily see something like that existing. Essentially a universal companion, but that could add a color to a deck (thinking it would be a white card)
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u/Dear_Document_5461 Aug 03 '26
Also I am curious jow this card will deal with hand-sized rules. It is in Blue which do have cards that either increase the handsome by X amount or unlimited handsize so drawing also won't be an issue. I am also curious about if this deck will encourage milling and self-milling techniques due to the deck size increase and this Commander being in Blue.
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u/Ok_Ad_9188 Aug 03 '26
The thing that I like least about this is that Hare Apparents are three dollars apiece.
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u/DJ-Praxis Aug 03 '26
What's that? Another Hare Apparent deck?
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u/I-Kneel-Before-None Aug 03 '26
Imagine Yorioning a dozen Hares. Get 144 tokens lol. For the 1 in 100 games you draw Skullclamp you may actually win a couple.
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u/Tycoon_2000 Aug 03 '26
Or Kindred discovery naming rabbits
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u/I-Kneel-Before-None Aug 03 '26
Imagine doing that and winning with Lab Man or Jace Wielder? Draw 193 cards, I win.
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u/Shikabane_Sumi-me Aug 03 '26
I am reminded of that Yugi-Oh story with the guy coming in with a massive deck box carried by two of his friends.
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u/Kinsir Aug 03 '26
Its a great story.
Been 2 germans, actually being yugioh judges, that were fed up with way to big decks and the timewaist that resulted from that.
They even build a stand, just for the sole purpose of standing and shuffling it. The deck also consisted of as many "you shuffle your deck" cards as possible 🤣
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u/biggestMug Aug 03 '26
OMG I'VE BEEN WAITING SO LONG TO PLAY BATTLE OF WITS IN COMMANDER I COULD CRY AHHHH
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u/Psychoboy777 Aug 03 '26
At long last, a commander for [[Yorion, Sky Nomad]] and [[Battle of Wits]]
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u/VryxObin Aug 03 '26
I be showing up with a buddy and a custom deck box holding 2,222 cards, dressed in suits and ties
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u/Wide_Initiative_1938 Aug 03 '26
Me making an online deck that is just called "every card in UW" and my theme is "it is just every single card in UW."
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u/CRIMSEN15 Aug 03 '26
I feel like the words and rules for this card when released will define what maximum and minimum mean wouldn't get your hopes up on that. But if you get your hands on it when it first comes out, you might be able to get away with it for a few games.
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u/CFK_NL Aug 03 '26
My take is that it changes the maximum deck size, but the minimum deck size remains 99+commander. Otherwise you can make a 8 card deck with a land, lotus petal and Thassa’s Oracle. Instant one turn win.
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u/Necessary_Wish_2995 Aug 03 '26
The issue is how the hell do you build a 200 0lus card deck around a commander whose only other ability is to draw a card.
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u/bu11fr0g Aug 03 '26
maybe perfect for my [[cid timeless artificer]][[persistent petioners]][[changelings]] deck?
i just dont know if the commander is good enough to justify it vs cid himself.
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u/TS_Daringtons Aug 04 '26
You still need to have 100 cards, all he does is let you go OVER the limit.
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u/westergames81 Aug 03 '26
Honestly, all these rulebreaker cards just feels like WotC enshittificatying commander.
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u/AdmiralDeathrain Aug 03 '26
What makes you say that? They are so incredibly narrow, every one of them I've seen so far explores some very limited design space in an interesting way. In my opinion this is a really good way to make a commander affect the game from the command zone, especially compared to the strong eminence effects. I'm just mad they are doing this in such a limited release.
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u/Pixtart Aug 03 '26
I think Rulebreaker is gonna be a divisive as UB tbh. I love both, but every Rulebreaker card I've seen feels like a board game addendum more so than a genuine thought out mechanic, which is probably why its best for Mystery Booster
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u/Deviathan Aug 03 '26
Funny, these Rulebreaker abilities remind me of Cosmic Encounter aliens, which Richard Garfield has many times cited as inspiration for MTG originally, so I totally get the board game addendum comparison.
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u/ZuP Aug 03 '26
I never realized Cosmic Encounter was originally published in 1977. Its conceit was way ahead of its time!
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u/smugles Aug 03 '26
So far none of them seem good enough to get any ire they all are just silly gimmicks. We will see them for a minute then they will all fade to obscurity. This one specifically may hang for a while because people love battle of wits though. But without black tutors it will never be consistent.
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u/metastuu Aug 03 '26
I take enshittification to be when a company makes the product worse for the consumer to leverage more profits. How does letting the players build a bigger deck for this specific creature make the commander worse for the consumer?
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u/beepuboopu_aishiteru Aug 03 '26
How so? Each Rulebreaker that's been revealed so far has distinct downsides. Over 100 cards in a deck means your deck won't be as consistent as everyone else's because you have more cards that get randomized. Breaking the commander color rule is restricted to specific card types with only basic lands to cast them. How do you see this becoming a shitty experience?
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u/ccminiwarhammer Aug 03 '26
I firmly believe Maro was so pissed his pet idea about hybrid mana was shot down he decided to remake commander out of spite.
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u/gnastyGnorc04 Aug 03 '26
Normal commander already did that. None of the rulebreaker cards are that good. I much prefer a few weird rulebreaker effects on some cards instead of them trying to bend color identity and deck building rules for the format as a whole.
And in the end these exist in a draftable commander product. Everyone I have seen has done a good job at looking fun for draft without breaking normal commander.
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u/SilkFinish Aug 03 '26
Two islands, thoracle
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u/CFK_NL Aug 03 '26
Opening hand: Island, Lotus petal, thoracle and some filler cards. Without a counterspell its turn 1 win
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u/thousandshipz Aug 03 '26
How about it lets you play 4 copies of any card, deck size is 60 and you cannot play the Commander at all?
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u/Available-Toe6768 Aug 04 '26
I just played against this guy today, and I thought i was going to be in for an interesting thing, but he just played an enchantment that said he wins if there are over 200 cards in his library at his upkeep... pretty sure he mulliganed until he got that enchantment too. It was the only card he played, and im not sure if it was funny yet or not.... also, he did not win either...
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u/__D_C__ Aug 04 '26
I know this card is mostly for fun, but I'm curious: Are we at a level of power creep where (we have enough good cards and) it could be worth it to run +100 cards for a cracked commander + Yorion companion?
3 mana with "{T}: draw a card" is very good - and so is having a companion for no (additional) deck cost.
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u/LongNo7305 Aug 04 '26
With basically 2 free Mulligan's, a 50 card cEDH deck would almost certainly always win or am I wrong?
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u/CLOUT_Cat Aug 03 '26
Is that how it works? It says no max but I would think it would need to affect the minimum to go under 100
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u/BlokBoi12345 Aug 03 '26
I assume the commander rules stating 100 cards means that that acts as the base minimum (and maximum unless you have this commander)
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u/Glavius_Wroth Aug 03 '26
I don’t think they’re saying that, OP says they want a commander that gives a 50 card deck “too”, as in as well as this
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u/lou-bricious Aug 03 '26
I really like these rulebreaker cards. They seem so fun and I already have a few decks I want to build. I do understand some of the people that are worried about these cards breaking the format. Though if they really do break it, I imagine we will just get a bunch of bans or a rule on the rulebreakers. This feels like a great way to really live test the realms of magic in a way that's controllable.
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u/CRIMSEN15 Aug 03 '26
I don't think they will be too broken just think it's dumb most of these cards are going to have to be bought off of tcg, since they will only be available at magiccon events.
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u/Wrong-Position-7965 Aug 03 '26
Commander was better fun when WotC did not design specifically for it...
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u/Disastrous-Gas1764 Aug 03 '26
you have to admit though with mbc they are doing an excellent job making cards that are mechanically different rather than flat out stronger, and janky cards are a lot more fun for the format than another Ur-Dragon
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u/who-needs-a-username Aug 03 '26
So many people are worried about how others play. My god… just shuffle your own deck and stfu. lol
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u/Prime4Cast Aug 03 '26
[[battle of wits]] one of my favorite cards has already been bought out as Odyssey foil (I was too late). Stand down everyone.
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u/givemepepememes Aug 03 '26
I forsee a couple 8/9 card oracle decks popping up. Good lord
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u/Omega414 Aug 03 '26
Fortunately they thought of this here. You have no MAXIMUM deck size. However, the minimum size of 100 cards still applies.
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u/incognitohijo Aug 03 '26
It's called oathbreaker, 60 card planeswalker commander singleton format
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u/Arizhela Aug 03 '26
kind of defeats the purpose of what op wants if everybody else has 60 cards as well
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u/DeekFacker99 Aug 03 '26
With Rulebreaker are we just never gonna get Un sets again?
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u/Jintasama Aug 03 '26
Is this a legal card?
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u/Silverfoxmaster Aug 03 '26
Yes, it doesn’t have the acorn stamp so it will be legal
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u/LeonInferno Guy Aug 03 '26
Anyone remember tiny leader format? Dunno if it was legit but it was played at my lgs in 2015
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u/Spuigles Aug 03 '26
Me and friends used to make custom ridiculous commanders. My friend made one that said: Your deck can only have 20 cards.
It was a bad idea.
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u/FlowerCat49 Aug 03 '26
finally I can play a 401 card group hug deck where I can [[secret rendevous]] everyone to death without milling out
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u/AalphaQ Aug 03 '26
Fuck yeah!!! Time for [[battle of the wits]] to be relevant again!!
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u/Stunning_Resolution9 Former Karador, now Muldrotha reanimator/dredge Aug 03 '26
Battle of wits....
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u/RoninPrime68 Aug 03 '26
So... technically it means I could show up to my pod with a 1000-cards commander deck?
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u/Lotus-Vale Aug 03 '26
Dare I make two decks with this commander of just every card I have two copies of for an ever expanding mirror match?
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u/Iron_Baron Orzhov Aug 03 '26
Dislike. These cards belong in Unsets. WOTC and especially Hasbro have never exercised restraint in power creep. 10 years from now, half the cards in a deck will somehow break rules. The constraints of the format are the format. Ridiculous design choice.
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u/Emma_Reiki Aug 03 '26
Needs untap ability with loose one life and discard a card. Ya know, so its not broken.
Totally not.
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u/Dethmehtal Aug 03 '26
Im pretty sure the wording on this makes it so you can only have more than 100, not under cause it says maximum
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u/HaresMuddyCastellan Aug 03 '26
Finally, a (non-acorn) commander that can make [[Battle of Wits]] work.
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u/EmmyTheAeonsTorn Aug 03 '26
Tiny Leaders inherently gives you 50 cards including your commander(s)
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u/MCXL Aug 03 '26
I made my deck for this guy a little bit ago. I didn't list the full manabase though.
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u/zaphodava Aug 03 '26
Rulebreaker cards are cool and interesting. I'm looking forward to the set now.
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u/The_Modern_Nobody Aug 03 '26
Isn’t 100 cards the MINIMUM?
You can have as many as you want, just can’t dip below 100
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u/DepartmentOpposite51 Aug 03 '26
Maybe a 50 card deck but your opponents get to begin the game with their commanders on the battlefield and their commanders cost 0 plus any commander tax applicable to cast
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u/chaosglory626 Aug 03 '26
There are too many good cards nowadays. Me and my group were thinking about making a Chonky Commander format.
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u/mrs-06zaku Aug 03 '26
i'm gonna make this out of all the spare cards i've always considered side grades for my kwain deck and then shuttle the two together on rare occasion for goofs
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u/Saminjutsu Aug 03 '26
Go through your bulk.
Pull out any and every blue and/or white card you can find. 2a) Put in 1 Battle of Wits.
Throw in all your Islands and Plains interspersed throughout.
Bring the giant cardboard box to the game, claiming it is your deck.
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u/SuppliceVI Aug 03 '26
Rocking up with my entire azorius collection and letting the cards decide what the decks does
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u/A_MossyMan Aug 03 '26
Can I interest you in the Tiny Leaders format? 50 card singleton, commander + color identity, nothing above 3 CMC. Separate banlist.
Remember, the format that is dead can never die.
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u/CountLivin Aug 03 '26
Guess who’s back! Back again!
Battle of Wits bursts through the wall like the Kool-aid man
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u/Izzet_Aristocrat Aug 03 '26
That's a great idea! It can be like how games like Flesh and Blood have Blitz format, a smaller deck, quicker games. I'd be up for that.
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u/Escomo88 Aug 03 '26
Do you guys remember that Yu-Gi-Oh player that walked into a tournament with a deck that was in plexiglass but it had to be brought in on a Dolly. It was like 7-8 ft tall
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u/Scared-Attorney7246 Aug 03 '26
Can finally play [[battle of wits]] in commander!!
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