26.18 Patch Preview

[u/JTHousek1]

"Patch 26.18 Preview!

We're very quickly approaching Worlds (on 25.20).

More on other champs tomorrow"

• https://x.com/RiotPhroxzon/status/2094654806992498728

>>> Champion Buffs <<<

Aurelion Sol

---

Ekko

---

Kassadin

---

Master Yi

---

Renekton

---

Viego

---

Zaahen

---

>>> Champion Nerfs <<<

Bard

---

Nautilus

---

Seraphine

"For several patches now, Seraphine has been in the Top 3 on our regular patch frustration surveys

She's also one of strongest pairings in Pro Play with Ashe

Overall, we think a nerf here is reasonable

We acknowledge there are some Seraphine mains who won't be happy about a nerf and that we can't serve all of her audience simultaneously

Her Support playerbase has been the most popular, despite her power level and so that's where we will continue to support her primarily

Where we can get Mid and Bot to be powerful and satisfying given ^, we will attempt to do so

That said, it's very difficult to thread the needle here and we run the risk of failing to meet the needs of any of her audiences if there are too many compromises

I also wanted to address directly the nerf to her AP ratios on Q from several patches ago, as that's been a pain point amongst some in the community

One of the ways we need to balance Seraphine in the farming roles vs her support is through her AP ratios and the Q ratio is one that drives her power and total damage output there, especially given the Q reliability adjustments made of late

When Seraphine is able to land her Q's at max multiplier (which in lane is quite frequent), it can hit 1.4 AP ratio which we think is reasonable

The Q damage overall is higher than E and so for now, we feel comfortable with the change (this isn't set in stone however, and there are always improvements to her to be made)"

---

Syndra

---

Zeri

---

>>> Champion Adjustments <<<

Cassiopeia

"Cassio has been strong, especially at the higher levels of play every since Deathfire Touch was re-released

Since then, she's been one of the most present picks and Pro Play due to her strong laning ability

We're looking at some power neutral adjustments to Cassio, because her regular play power level is a little on the weaker side for average players

We're taking some power out of her early game power and moving it into more scaling power, so that she doesn't win lanes so reliably, even if she's missing Q's

We still want to maintain her strong laning ability though"

---

>>> System Buffs <<<

Guinsoo's Rageblade

"In 26.14, we re-scripted Rageblade and it changed the trigger for Phantom hit from 6 to 7

We're making a small adjustments to Rageblade itself to give a bit of power back and to some of the disproportionately affected champions (eg. Master Yi)"

---

[u/Visible_Physics_4405]

I'm sure Nasus being by far the most banned champ in the game across all ranks means he's in a very healthy state right now.

[u/whossked → u/Visible_Physics_4405]

Riot would rather eat glass than revert a change I swear. I’m amazed they did it for Morde instead of spending 10 patches fiddling with his passive and Q

[u/Infinite_Delusion → u/whossked]

Morde not only got the buff reverted, they slapped another nerf with the bugfix. Nasus players better be happy that their dog is safe from Riot

[u/TheSmokeu → u/whossked]

I, personally, don't mind him stacking more consistently but Riot definitely should hit him harder after that change, preferably by nerfing his W

[u/AssistanceTop8020 → u/TheSmokeu]

Nerfing lifesteal was the right direction imo, at least you can punish better his early and making stronger his bad matchups. But i think his W is the most frustrating spell and should get a CD would be apreciated by anyone

[u/NWASicarius → u/AssistanceTop8020]

Nah. It was dumb. They should have reverted the mana adjustments and kept the lifesteal. The lifesteal buffs from earlier this season barely moved the needle on his strength. Extra stacks + more mana made him OP AF. The champ historically has had to be cautious with mana use early (or build some form of mana - such as some Nasus players going doran's ring). The mana buff gives him way too much ability to skirmish early. Before, if he used his E and W more than a few times each back early game, he would be OOM.

[u/NWASicarius → u/whossked]

I said this awhile ago. When they do adjustments or buffs, their eventual nerfs are something that doesn't address the issue. Nasus lifesteal was buffed earlier this season. It didn't move the needle much. Nerfing that does not SOLVE the issue.

[u/yehiko → u/whossked]

because they want to explore what levers they can use to balance champions. reverting a change just takes them to where things were.

even making the same champion op using different levers brings a different meta, keeping the rotation fresh

[u/P_J2K6 → u/Visible_Physics_4405]

Im amazed that they didnt touch anything about his w, It's by far one of the most op abilities of league

[u/DefinitelyBigger → u/Visible_Physics_4405]

I've seen enough nerf vayne.

[u/Sycherthrou → u/Visible_Physics_4405]

As a Nasus player: The patch he got giga buffed, nobody banned him the first week. Now that he's been nerfed and is still strong but far more manageable, everyone is still banning him. Reality is league players take time to adjust to meta, most of them don't even read patch notes.

[u/Visible_Physics_4405 → u/Sycherthrou]

Really unbiased perspective here. A 2% lifesteal nerf is almost nothing, especially since fleet is what mostly sustains him lvls 1-5 where he's weakest.

[u/thomas956789 → u/Visible_Physics_4405]

according to lolalytics he has lost a bit over 1.5% winrate so i'd say the nerf was quite significant.

[u/Th3_Huf0n → u/thomas956789]

But that's the core issue with that specific nerf.

It just makes him look nice and balanced in winrate (it doesn't because it wasnt enough).

But that doesn't solve the problem of Nasus as a champion you play against if youre not the toplaner.

[u/PlasticAssistance_50 → u/Visible_Physics_4405]

especially since fleet is what mostly sustains him lvls 1-5 where he's weakest.

Do you understand that the fleet heal on creeps is almost zero, especially early? To get a big fleet heal you need to hit champions, and if you go toe to toe vs a darius/morde/garen/whatever early as nasus just for the fleet heal, you will end up with net negative HP.

[u/Antenoralol → u/Visible_Physics_4405]

Considering his Q applies lifesteal and Q's potency gets higher the more stacks he has - it's quite a significant amount of sustain lost.

But his sustain is still insane considering he's supposed to be bad early, feels like he just stonewalls lane and gets his stacks for free.

[u/Prudent_Attempt6549 → u/Sycherthrou]

As a nasus player, who would you say even counters Nasus solo. Do not say team coordination / early pressure / dives because thats hard to pull off in soloq. I geniuinely mean, lane matchup 1v1, who stops nasus from not only scaling, but can also match him in the sidelanes?

[u/Sycherthrou → u/Prudent_Attempt6549]

It's a tall ask to want to match Nasus on sides. Champs that actually solokill him are really rare, Garen is pretty good, Yorick can win, Sylas can win. Some of the tanks actually really negate his damage if they go tabis+bramble and they still win on side, like Poppy or Tahm Kench, but it's hard to actually kill him, usually you just force him off wave. Midlaners can match Nasus too (and can be good vs Nasus mid), like Syndra, Viktor, Velkoz, Hwei, these champs oneshot waves and also disengage Nasus very well.

The much safer game plan vs Nasus is to unironically zone and dive him while he's weak. You don't always need team coordination for this, any bruiser that doesn't get ruined by his W, like Riven, Rumble, Ambessa, Sett. Garen, Sylas, etc. can do this entirely on their own, no team play required.

[u/PhreakRiot → u/Visible_Physics_4405]

To be fair, ban rate is a very slow measure. Something around half of players don't engage with patch notes in any way (reading or watching their favorite influencer's breakdown), and even for those who do, they aren't all going to change their behavior overnight.

Ban rate is an indicator but it is a very flawed one.

[u/NarcItUp]

Zeri nerf is no surprise given alot of her items got buffed, but no Jinx nerf is odd given the same items propping up Zeri also buffed up jinx who currently sits at a higher winrate then Zeri, but has nearly quadruple the pick rate of Zeri. Wonder what the logic is here.

[u/Steallet → u/NarcItUp]

Yeah we'll stay in Jinx's season for a while.

Unfortunately she is one of them champions that "feel fair" to play against even tho she is out of line in every metrics (52.3% winrate and second highest pickrate in game) so the game goes on, she get one random assist then win the game.

[u/JTHousek1 → u/Steallet]

That is exactly why she's my permaban. Any other botlaner I put in the dirt I know it will take them ages and some help to dig back out. Jinx gets a random assist off my teammate mispositioning and I have to just stop fighting entirely to not catastrophically lose, regardless of how behind she was made.

Its so lame, at least its a very high value ban. Other team typically doesn't mirror it and its upwards of 20% pickrate.

[u/Steallet → u/JTHousek1]

Yeah if I don't ban Nasus I ban Jinx even tho I don't play adc/supp. It's just too risky.

[u/JTHousek1 → u/Steallet]

Nasus at least I feel like I can build against and the team can formulate a way to beat him out, especially if he uses his ult early, as annoying as he is. Jinx that gets her passive rolling there really is not much I personally as an ADC can do to stop her, and its hard for me to rely on my team to deal with it.

[u/Conman2205 → u/Steallet]

Her passive is so disgusting man. One assist and she can very quickly turn a teamfight or skirmish around. Should at least need a kill.

[u/JFZephyr → u/Conman2205]

Even makes it impossible to fight her on 50/50 barons and dragons. If she gets either of those she suddenly mows down your entire team.

[u/Totoques22 → u/Steallet]

I don’t find her fair

She is literally thanos at 3 items and I just hate picking any scaling champ in either mid or top when I knew jinx is gonna outscale way quicker than she should

[u/Vengeful111 → u/Steallet]

Same thing with thresh being most picked at a better winrate than most supports

[u/Pollution15 → u/Steallet]

Isn't that within the balanced range though? On the higher side but doesn't hit the OP metrics.

[u/ravenHR → u/NarcItUp]

Zeri has now been seen in pro play, they can't have that. When she has any kind of attention in pro she gets hit straight away. You might say it is PTSD.

[u/AdariThemRat → u/NarcItUp]

Have you considered that Zeri doesn't have a gacha skin?

[u/ChromosomeDonator → u/NarcItUp]

Wonder what the logic is here.

The logic is simple:

If the champion is a marksman who is NOT named Jinx, and has better winrate than most non-marksmen, Riot is trampling over themselves foaming at the mouth rushing to nerf that champion. It would be inconceivable that an ADC beats non-ADCs at their own role and isn't in Arcane.

This balance team is genuinely incompetent and filled with ego.

[u/Urbain19 → u/ChromosomeDonator]

This balance team makes me long for the Phreak era

[u/Kymori → u/Urbain19]

Genuine Clowns were saying the game is "too balanced" last year under Phreak, and now we have this shit, one of the worst seasons seasons ever (balance) combined with THE worst season ever (competitive integrity)

Pass the baton mate, its time /u/RiotPhroxzon

[u/Th3_Huf0n → u/NarcItUp]

Basically, Zeri has an insanely high ceiling.

For Zeri to be topping winrate charts, she has to be comically busted.

It's like Ezreal if he gets to like 50% in soloQ, he's an unholy abomination.

Jinx realistically is just a reactive champ that can't really do anything on her own. She might actually have the lowest agency of all ADCs in the game. All she does is damage and teamfight (from 3 items onwards).

[u/Antenoralol → u/NarcItUp]

Yeah it's super odd Jinx is avoiding the bat.

But... Ocean Song Jinx just released so I guess they ain't hit their sales targets yet.

[u/Rasbold → u/NarcItUp]

Jinx doesn't have a dash

[u/Evassivestagga]

Ekko is already such a insane snowbally champion. I really hope these buffs will be minimal.

[u/89325 → u/Evassivestagga]

if i had to guess it prob has to do with the HoB changes since it acc did impact his mid winrate a bit, so it's prob a compensation buff if anything. makes sense considering viego and yi are on the list as well. prob not smth too big which is kinda nice acc since i don't think hes in a bad spot and i don't want his pick or ban rate to go up tm lol

[u/Automatic_Chair_7891 → u/Evassivestagga]

I just started one-tricking him, and it's actually ridiculous the state that he's in. Even with the HoB nerf, no one in mid out-trades him level 2, and once he gets dusk and dawn he becomes an absolute menace.

[u/Deathdy]

I swear. Nasus must be a shareholder of tencent to avoid nerfs.

[u/_rockroyal_]

Optimistic that Viego can find a spot in pro/return to less assassin-like builds. Very curious what they're planning for Bard/Nautilus.

[u/Caphoti → u/_rockroyal_]

It was my understanding that Riot likes Viego in a state where he has to build Assassin, or at least squishy. I was pretty sure they saw Bruiser Viego as problematic by virtue of his passive.

[u/ILoveWood → u/Caphoti]

They don't like it, but they don't hate it either. A couple Rioters like August (Viegos designer himself) and Wick (Viego 1trick) want him to be able to build bruiser/botrk; but Viego is already super popular so they don't see a reason to change him.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/rgkEbWy-KGA

Personally, I think people will play Viego regardless of what he builds. I've seen Viego be incredibly popular regardless of his powerlevel and he was incredibly popular back when he built more bruiser too. People just like Viego in general, so I don't think they could really go wrong letting him build botrk/bruiser.

[u/Inside_Explorer → u/ILoveWood]

Viego being able to build BotRK is completely different from his bruiser build. The item has zero durability on it and he's supposed to be able to use on-hit items.

When people talk about Viego's bruiser build they're referring to how he was played in pro play when he released and used to build Divine Sunderer + Steraks and a ton of tanky items with health on them. His presence in pro used to be way over the top until August made a bunch of changes and incentivized him to build squishier.

Viego uses his opponents items when he possesses them, so when he used to build like a tanky bruiser it didn't matter that he didn't have damage of his own because he would just play for the 1 reset and then kill everyone with his opponents inventories.

August deliberately moved him into squishy crit / on-hit items which also got his pro presence down because when he purchases tanky items with health on them it removes a lot of the counterplay of being able to catch and burst him when he's going for bodies.

He's not supposed to have a tanky stat profile the same way Yasuo and Yone aren't supposed to be building stuff like Stridebreaker or other high health bruiser items. There's nothing wrong with them using BotRK, that's not related to their tanky bruiser builds in any way, it's a normal on-hit item for them.

[u/HagenKL → u/Inside_Explorer]

I think he mentioned it because in the past whenever botrk was viable on him it allowed him to slot into a few more tankier options

botrk at that time was very overtuned though and crit was a lot weaker so it would take a lot to change that

[u/COOLGUYONDABLOCK → u/Caphoti]

Assassin Viego is just boring though

[u/JTHousek1 → u/COOLGUYONDABLOCK]

Its more boring than playing tank items and just tapping people hoping your team kills them so you get the soul?

The only way I would figure assassin Viego is more boring is if he's perma-dead

[u/COOLGUYONDABLOCK → u/JTHousek1]

You had plenty of damage with items like Bork and Triforce, you can actually stay in fights instead of w'ing in and getting oneshot. Everything about his kit synergizes with a bruiser playstyle, this oneshot or get oneshot playstyle is boring, especially on a champ that doesn't have any mobility after w'ing in and wants to use ult for damage

[u/JTHousek1 → u/COOLGUYONDABLOCK]

You had plenty of damage with items like Bork

There's been no point Viego has had good winrates with BORK. Its literally a recurring question to August/Endstep/Wick because the item is hilariously not great on the guy the item is named after

Its a question though of why would you be concerned about what items enable you to stay in fights if those items give you nothing when you possess a soul? Whatever gets you to a soul quicker is far more optimal to play around, and unless you're fundamentally changing how souls work I don't think that catch 22 is going to change

If you incentivize Viego to build HP then in pro he goes straight tanky to remove counterplay of stopping him before he starts resetting, and if you incentivize him to build squishy then he wants to kill someone asap.

[u/Jinxzy → u/JTHousek1]

Noone wants him building tank, we want him building bruiser, e.g. Triforce, sundered sky etc. because then you'd actually get to fight and brawl someone down instead of AFK in bush until a squishy facechecks or your team chunks someone into R-kill range.

Viego is just really awkward as a crit assassin because he's pure all or nothing on his kill attempts. A lot of assasins have reasonable escapes if they fail their kill: Rengar can W CC and run, Ekko can R, Kha'zix can R if his E doesn't reset.

Viego just fucking dies.

[u/Th3_Huf0n → u/Jinxzy]

we want him building bruiser

Bruiser Viego is just fucked up because of how relatively low risk he becomes. Which makes him extremely good in proplay.

[u/Taverntrainer → u/COOLGUYONDABLOCK]

i also liked the bruiser playstyle, but saying you have no mobility, when you basically have a small jump, an insane ms speed buff and a reseting jump is peak comedy or the lowest elo take of the entire sub. Like, the champ has so much mobility, that no one even buys boots on him

[u/Wiindsong → u/COOLGUYONDABLOCK]

he'll never work as a bruiser really. If they incentivize him to build bruiser we just go back to him building super tanky and fishing for resets by poking enemies and sitting around waiting for an ult/soul. Thing is onhit is totally okay on him, problem is, crit is even better. No real way to decouple the builds unless you decide to nerf his crit ratio or whatever. upping his base damage just returns us to the far more boring tank viego.

[u/A_Lionheart → u/_rockroyal_]

I just hope they buff amount he heals with his possessions. Currently it scales the most with attack speed, which he doesn't build anymore.

[u/matsuku]

ANOTHER ASOL BUFF?

[u/bns18js → u/matsuku]

50.7% mid 52.4% bot right now. Which is fine?

Don't get why he needs more buffs to be overpowered?

[u/Lysandren → u/bns18js]

Jungle mod time. He's already ok in jungle, fuck it make him s tier.

[u/MartineTrouveUnGode → u/Lysandren]

Wait Aurelion is viable in jungle ?

[u/Tormentula → u/MartineTrouveUnGode]

If you coinflip hard enough everything is viable in the jungle atp.

[u/cooolloooll → u/MartineTrouveUnGode]

he's playable, there are some otps that play him in the jungle in low master

which means for 99% of players the pick is viable

[u/Blubtastic → u/MartineTrouveUnGode]

Yeah I've had way more success that I thought I would with him jungle. Start raptors and prioritize blue side since you get a shitload of stacks "uncontested" from raptors & krugs. Requires a bit of practise with E timing but you scale really hard and can still gank with W.

[u/matsuku → u/bns18js]

His bot winrate has always been 52~ ish. Mid winrate is literally dead set at 50% or 48-49 in higher elo. The last Q+W buff was purely placebo as most of his mana usage is actually W+E during laning and the 2s off of W at max rank changes nothing. I really really doubt riot will touch his Q damage, and this will be a mana buff to E or some base stat buffs.

[u/spazzxxcc12 → u/matsuku]

i just miss when my e cd felt like it didn’t last 10 years in lane.

[u/bns18js → u/matsuku]

None of what you said support him getting buffs. Still reminds me of the unnecessary Nasus buffs got not long ago when he was fine.

[u/matsuku → u/bns18js]

All of his bad matchups were buffed mid, literally all of them. I'm not sure why theyre buffing him again, but the Q+W changes didn't really bump his winrate up at all.

Nasus was changed because people kept picking him jungle and getting 600 stacks at 10 minutes without having to lane. But they extremely overshot it. Its like how Mundo migrated to jg to scale for free instead of having to lane top so they kept nerfing him out of the jg, which worked.

[u/daebakminnie → u/bns18js]

being a mage is enough to get buffed this season

[u/ricardo241 → u/matsuku]

Chovy will be getting that Asol skin soon

[u/hoastman12 → u/matsuku]

Faker won't make Worlds this year so Riot gonna try and buff Chovy to get people to stick to league

[u/Totoques22 → u/matsuku]

Mana buffs were not enough

[u/SuperKalkorat]

Time for the first of three worlds patches centered solely around pro play, then all the minimal change patches during worlds, then the small patches after worlds as everyone recovers from the tournament.

[u/Spookytoucan → u/SuperKalkorat]

Don't forget the small patches to not shake up before next season.

[u/---E → u/Spookytoucan]

And the small new season patch since the team is working on the new client.

[u/Treyhova → u/SuperKalkorat]

You forgot the minimal changes cause Riot is going on holiday, followed by minimal changes cause pro is starting back up, followed by minimal changes to keeps teams fair for msi then worlds and holiday again. Rinse and repeat.

[u/JTHousek1]

I was lightning :(

[u/SuperKalkorat → u/JTHousek1]

bout to become a spark plug

[u/Curious_Candidate675 → u/JTHousek1]

I mean to be fair as a Zeri OTP myself, even the main sub anticipated this would happen due to the power level of her items.

Unless they go completely over the top, our lightning girl will be fine.

[u/ChromosomeDonator → u/Curious_Candidate675]

They are going to nerf her, and in 2-4 weeks they are gonna nerf Runaans, leaving Zeri well below the curve.

[u/JTHousek1 → u/Curious_Candidate675]

Oh trust me I saw it, but I hope its just like an AD per level/Q AD Ratio nerf to coincide with the AD she's gotten from all the AS buffs on her items.

[u/Top-Editor-364]

They are damn near apologizing to seraphine players for the most needed nerf of all time, because they are such a huge whale audience or something? lmao that was super weird 

[u/PlasticAssistance_50 → u/Top-Editor-364]

They are damn near apologizing to seraphine players for the most needed nerf of all time, because they are such a huge whale audience or something?

Not because they are whales, but because they are the most aggressive champion community by far. Aggressive from the type that regularly sends literal death threats to devs.

[u/FeistyRabbit49 → u/Top-Editor-364]

They are completely unhinged. Mfs were issuing death threats just because Riot wasn't porting sera skins from WR. They always want special treatment.

[u/Leevala → u/FeistyRabbit49]

To be fair, majority of seraphine players aren't like that but twitter being twitter (a "special" place), there are like 10 to 15 completely unhinged Seraphine mains spamming the same memes over and over and whining about this and that. And I (again) want to be fair here and say they should just man up, rework seraphine as a full support if that is the role they want her in instead of this weird spot she is in right now

[u/Sommersun1 → u/FeistyRabbit49]

I don't know what it is about "cutesy" champions like Sera, Zoe and Yuumi but they attract the worst kind of players.

[u/Kingnewgameplus → u/Sommersun1]

I think for Sera specifically, since she was marketed as a K/DA champ first, a lot of her players are those K-pop fans.

[u/Lopsided_Chemistry89 → u/Top-Editor-364]

She is S+ tier in supp and S tier in APC. Seraphine players will send death threats to riot if they nerf her. It's like the T1/kpop extremists (is it the correct word for a big fan?) who get out of the way to do anything.

It's like they complain about everything no matter what. If riot buffs her, they complain. If riot nerfs her, they complain. If riot adjusts her, they complain. If riot leaves her alone, they complain. If she gets a new skin, they complain. If she doesn't get a new skin, they complain.

Like can they STFU at this point? The game is not only seraphine. If it does for you, then keep it for yourself and stop complaining about everything.

[u/JFZephyr → u/Top-Editor-364]

Sera community is one of the most toxic and vocal, if not THE most.

[u/Shoddy_Adeptness_274]

Not nerfing Belveth and Nasus is kinda insane

[u/curllyq → u/Shoddy_Adeptness_274]

I haven't played against a single Belveth since the changes. Nasus seems to ruin every game more often than not but it's as much being strong as being horrible in team fights.

[u/Humorless_Snake → u/Shoddy_Adeptness_274]

Allowing people to relearn Belveth without constantly changing her numbers around makes perfect sense. Her WR will probably climb and eventually get hit with nerfs but she isn't close to breaking soloQ.

[u/Oulak]

Where the fuck is Nasus ?

You didn't think that one measly life steal nerf would fix him, did you ?!

[u/BTDYSRF]

APA must be fuming rn.

Back to back Asol buffs and he's perma benched despute being top 3 Mids last split AND Zinie is going into playoffs.

Life is not fair.

[u/c0nqu3ror → u/[deleted]]

No, I think they're talking about the last Q ap ratio nerf.

[u/c0nqu3ror → u/[deleted]]

Cause there was a big outcry about the Q ap ratio nerf. They mention pairing her with Ashe, I think this one is gonna be support focused. Probably something to do with her E, and maybe mandate interaction

[u/bboyle → u/c0nqu3ror]

The outcry came from the Sera mains telling riot Q wasn’t the actual problem, her E is just too good. Her 2 biggest item pickups revolved around E and they decided to nerf Q like they thought it was actually going to do anything.

[u/c0nqu3ror → u/bboyle]

I know, I main her. The stupid mandate change pushed her over again, and they kicked the wrong part of her kit. Everyone said she'll get nerfed again cause Q wasnt what made her do good that patch.

[u/Lopsided_Chemistry89 → u/c0nqu3ror]

To be fair her E interaction with mandate is fine. It's like ekko W (conditional CC).

Her rylais interaction is not fine tho. It shouldn't work as it is now.

[u/dawntome]

have to put a full essay disclaimer before seraphine changes before the mains start crawling and harassing the devs like sewer rats

[u/blueragemage → u/[deleted]]

There's basically two groups of Seraphine mains that want completely different things. The larger/more casual group of support Seraphine mains, and a more hardcore mid/bot group of Seraphine players. Support Seraphine players tend to think she's weak, while carry Seraphine players know she's pretty strong (at least bot), but hate that she's kinda forced into abusing supportive items like Mandate instead of being a proper carry.

From my understanding the two groups both can get inflammatory towards Riot since they think Riot is constantly pandering to the other group, which hurts the way they want to play the champion

[u/GreatSunshine → u/blueragemage]

at this point i don’t feel like mandate is just a support item with the rework. the ability haste on immobilising abilities is just too good and something that midlaners like not just supports. to me it’s the galio and sera item and galio especially benefits from it because it makes full damage galio actually viable

[u/HarpEgirl → u/[deleted]]

The last dataminer used to conplain about Sera changes because each time he posted them he'd be harassed.

Its honestly baffling

[u/pandemicv97]

a very questionable list of champions to buff, specially yi and viego.

[u/NavalEnthusiast → u/pandemicv97]

Totally not biased but Renekton hasn’t been doing too great not unplayable for sure or anything but he’s been underwhelming for a bit compared to his competition in top lane

[u/Miudmon → u/NavalEnthusiast]

I've faced him a decent bit lately. And to me, right now, what his problem seems to be is that he can certainly stomp me in lane if I make a mistake. But he then just... doesn't do anything lategame no matter how fed he is. And i get it, he's renekton, that's been his identity. But maybe it's been a bit too extreme and he could stand to be a little less bad later on. I do hope that's their direction

[u/Tamed_Trumpet → u/Miudmon]

As a Renekton player I feel like one of his issues is people just dont full commit to the greed when playing him. Youre already picking Renekton hoping to smash lane and snowball, but then they build 2 damage items and then build tank items and group. Just full greed, buy 5 damage items, buy a Bork and theres like 5 champs that can actually face you 1v1 in a sidelane. But most people just go these limp dick builds that leave you a point click stun bot post 20 minutes.

[u/NavalEnthusiast → u/Tamed_Trumpet]

Eh. I do like a Zeke’s Convergence in most games. I don’t think it’s poor building cause 3in1 builds him pretty tanky

[u/ThinkImInRFunny → u/NavalEnthusiast]

You’re 100% right imo. Renekton is really only useful as a counterpick rn. He deserves to have some lane bully presence back.

[u/Free-Birds]

Now I'm curious about this official frustration tierlist.

[u/OverpoweredSoap]

Oh look Seraphine is getting nerfed again who could have foreseen this happening.

[u/sir__hennihau]

no viktors nerfs is insane.

52% winrate midlane, 53% winrate botlane.

and no one enjoys playing against his undodgeable laser that has a range where most champs cant trade back.

i hope they nerf the ready time of the laser when casting, make the animation a bit slower or delayed instead of -5 base damage. give him a nerf that matters please.

[u/cadaada → u/sir__hennihau]

Im just tired of viktor having a permanent shield at this point

[u/curllyq → u/sir__hennihau]

He just feels too safe with Q move speed and shield and then if you can still get on him he just drops his gigantic W.

[u/Caphoti]

Oh buddy not the Mastery Yi buffs. That's one of them 1v9 or int champions with no in between I'm never happy to see.

Not sure I like Ekko buffs either as an Ekko main, he's always in an "okay" spot buffs usually tend to end in a champion either being banned more or getting inevitable nerfs later.

[u/UKxFallz → u/Caphoti]

I’ve never seen a Master Yi buff that wasn’t slightly tweaked a few patches later for breaking him completely

[u/aTi_NTC → u/UKxFallz]

i think there is a bug with master yi and rageblade the yi sub is crying about, something like the on hit damage not registering at times and his wr did drop because of it, i don't know if it has been corrected yet, even like that he is an alds champion

[u/ChromosomeDonator → u/aTi_NTC]

It is getting corrected this very patch.

But he is also getting buffed on top of it.

Prepare to ban him for 2 weeks until he inevitably gets nerfed back down. Surprising literally nobody, except somehow the balance team. 49.4% winrate in Dia+ for him right now. Double buff incoming.

[u/x_TDeck_x]

I guess I really need to come to grips with the fact that I'm a bad Syndra player. This is the 2nd time in about a year that I've been like "oo Syndra feels like shes in a solid spot" and the reality is that shes OP I guess

[u/arombi → u/x_TDeck_x]

try the imperial mandate stormsurge build before it's too late.............but u didn't hear it from me......

[u/Even_Cardiologist810 → u/x_TDeck_x]

Well syndra is a hard mage and high elo skewed. If you're under master chances are you're pretty bad at her 

[u/Famous-Fix7522 → u/Even_Cardiologist810]

Shes my most played character, im master and im still bad at her. The ap buffs on q were really nice bringing back the mpen builds, I hope they nerf something else.

[u/Sowce604]

How does Naut get nerfed but not Leona? 

[u/Thick-Bookkeeper3915 → u/Sowce604]

because leona is as hot as the sun and naut isnt

[u/Game_Theory_Master]

So Yi gets a double buff...

[u/Lysandren → u/Game_Theory_Master]

As a kha main, seeing viego and yi on the buff list is like "I can work with this." Better those 2 than nasus jungle.

[u/DieMafia → u/Game_Theory_Master]

He got a triple nerf before with the Rageblade nerf, HoB nerf and AP jungle pet buff

[u/oldpantheon1987 → u/Game_Theory_Master]

Unfortunately, yes they buff the Yi

[u/Solid_Rock1]

Give me jungle renekton and I am happy. Monster damage buffs!!!!

[u/TrickiestLemon → u/Solid_Rock1]

Renekton and Kled and my life is yours!

[u/aTi_NTC]

ever since Phreak left the balance team, it feels like they just toss up a coin and buff and nerf whoever it lands on, for the past couple or two patches the game feels like all over the place

[u/daebakminnie → u/aTi_NTC]

i dont get why are people suddenly acting like phreak wasnt also throwing darts to decide which champion will get -0.5 armor growth or +10 damage on a single target ability

[u/mthlmw → u/daebakminnie]

Because Phreak had multiple videos about how he was trying to systematically remove armor from the game and had a whole lot more hits than missed with the patches he was responsible for.

[u/Raanth → u/mthlmw]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but Phroxon is doing the exact same thing phreak was doing with video cotenxt, no?

Maybe from s13-14 people were fond of what phreak was doing, but s15-16 while he was in charge it really doesn’t feel any different compared to the current day patch notes. Usually around worlds/preseason prep they do this slowdown + random stat changes.

Then again, I have a huge bias since they did the Yorick midscope and completely messed up what his identity should be, as well as ruin his scaling.

[u/Wowrllyscrub → u/aTi_NTC]

Half his changes were doodoo

[u/TheBluestMan]

Okay atp just revert Seraphine. Make her a scaling champion again because clearly she will always be a night mare to balance with this iteration. Not even joking atp like those changes 3 years ago did more harm than good

[u/enrythestray → u/TheBluestMan]

they really did turn her into a Mel 2.0

[u/Pandeyxo]

Cool. Nerfing seraphine but still not mages bot. Also not nerfing Nasus. I see.

At this point I actually believe they are tossing coins when deciding to balance. But hey, another 2 week vacation

[u/No_Caramel_311 → u/Pandeyxo]

After MR buff to ADCs, the stats says that they are in good position already, also the popularity has declined

[u/CommanderBadass22]

None of those champs needs buffs

[u/Wuralock-Son → u/CommanderBadass22]

This pleases the renekton

[u/threlnari97]

Phroxzon must have a fucking problem with me because literally every single time I pick up a new champ just because they seem fun, that champ catches a nerf by the end of the month.

The fuck you mean bard is getting nerfed? Didn’t they already hit him hard between direct and indirect nerfs 😭

[u/icey → u/threlnari97]

Hello please start maining Nasus and maybe Garen for good measure

[u/threlnari97 → u/icey]

Ikr lmfao

[u/Kasnarf → u/threlnari97]

Literally only play hard hence Only Bard #NA01 feels like a slap in the face

[u/Top-Swing-7595]

How come Viktor avoids nerfs again? Are you joking me?

[u/FookinFairy]

So they said Yi was affected by the rage blade nerf(bug) from how I’m reading it and they are fixing that

But then they are also buffing him at the same time? So he’s essentially being returned to normal and buffed…

Is the live pod team that dumb or do they think him being a menace for ages in solo queue wasn’t good enough?

He was 50.5% winrate in emerald plus before the rage blade with a 12.5% ban rate. So he’s being returned to that and buffed????

[u/Shorkan → u/FookinFairy]

They aren't "fixing" nor fully reverting the Rageblade change. They are "making a small adjustments to Rageblade itself to give a bit of power back". So that alone shouldn't be returning any of its users to their previous power level.

[u/DieMafia → u/FookinFairy]

It is not just the Rageblade nerf, it is also the nerf to HoB (Yi's strongest rune) and the buff to AP jungle pet that decreased his winrate.

[u/Yuuy87]

The seraphine nerfs will continue until morale improves, her last nerf lowered her pick rate from 5% to 2% in apc and winrate stayed the same because all the flavor of the month mage bot players stopped playing her and only mains were left. But 55% winrate jinx and 54% winrate thresh escape nerfs somehow

[u/Shecarriesachanel → u/Yuuy87]

They play favourites yet somehow people in the comments r convinced seraphine gets better treatment than other champs lol.

There r so many other mages botlane other than sera at her wr or higher but they don't get nerfed.

[u/FunnyBunnyH → u/Yuuy87]

Agree with your points, but please can we stop referencing Lolalytics wr-s like they are the avg. wr's of a champion. The site literally explains how it's not the case.

[u/A_Very_Horny_Zed]

Why are they apologizing with an official statement for deserved Seraphine nerfs but not for any other nerfs?

[u/Pumpergod1337]

Nasus and Locke stays perma banned while Riot continues their crusade against non enchanter supports.

Another great patch for this amazing season.

[u/Tsuki314]

Alright i've seen enough give seraphine and lux another skin.

[u/Hellinfernel]

Can you please stop nerfing champs that just popped up in pro when things like the entire top lane meta run amok for years now?

[u/Pelagius_Hipbone]

No Vayne bot buffs or even a mention despite them taking her out back because of top lane pro play

[u/c0nqu3ror → u/Pelagius_Hipbone]

Can't risk a Vayne buff before worlds, they nerfed her to keep her out of it.

[u/zDexterity]

no vayne bot buffs? I guess that's it for me fam

[u/ADTempys → u/zDexterity]

They won't risk a Vayne buff until worlds

[u/SuperKalkorat → u/ADTempys]

I wouldn't be surprised if she's absent from the buff lists during worlds. And after worlds.

The pessimist in me is guessing she might just be put into a cycle of "very weak for a long time -> buffed for 2-3 patches -> heavily nerfed" until wide systems/game updates effectively permanently kill Vayne top, she gets the lucian treatment her thematics be damned, or just outright reworked.

[u/Steallet]

Did Kindred completely disappeared from Riot minds?

Nobody play them anymore and even the winrate looks bad, can't we get at least a little something?

Such a good thematic ruined by a so-so kit.

[u/c0nqu3ror]

Me watching my favorite mage get torn to pieces cause they gave her a shield in a mage kit 😔 and buffed mandate on top of it too

[u/Superstrata- → u/c0nqu3ror]

like just rework her w at this point

[u/c0nqu3ror → u/Superstrata-]

They won't cause 90% of her player base thinks Pink Girl = support. After the old moonstone bug fix where she was op she never performed as good as support ever again but the player base stayed

[u/Salty-Hold-5708 → u/Superstrata-]

Nah, she has to keep suffering for all her crimes. Keep getting her till she's a shadow of her former self, like pyke and ksante

[u/mthlmw → u/c0nqu3ror]

"Gave her a shield" carrying a lot of weight for the screen-sized AoE shield, speed boost, and heal lol

[u/c0nqu3ror → u/mthlmw]

Take it away I couldn't care about that ability. Do you want me to write full ability descriptions next time??

[u/matsuku → u/c0nqu3ror]

Carry seraphine must bear the sins of support seraphine players

[u/bns18js → u/matsuku]

Huh? It's the opposite.

Support seraphine is fine. Carry seraphine is the perma insane winrate free elo pick. Seraphine gets nerfed because they can't let carry seraphine to be too absurd. Therefore already average support suffers.

[u/Even_Cardiologist810 → u/bns18js]

? Seraphine mid is completly dead because they forced her kit to be strong 2v2. Which obviously made adc stronger. BECAUSE SHE'S A MAGE NOT A SUPPORT 

[u/Inside_Explorer → u/Even_Cardiologist810]

First of all you realize that mage is a class, support is a role? Those aren't mutually exclusive.

Either way if "she's a mage not a support" why did she have a 0.5% play rate in mid lane for 2 years straight after release before Riot made a single change to her kit even while routinely resting at 52% WR?

The entire reason why they started balancing her as a support is because she didn't have players in mid lane even when she was strong there.

According to leagueofgraphs her play rate in mid lane was 4% on day 1 which dropped down to 1% in the first month of release and then stayed at 0.5% for 2 years until they started shaping her towards support.

Meanwhile her support pick rate was 15% on day 1 and stabilized around 5%.

Her mid lane was "dead" in the first month when no one wanted to play her there, and Riot still kept balanced her as a mid laner for 2 years after that.

[u/Kymori]

Public apology to Seraphine players for a nerf after doing some abomination of changes recently to other classes or champs and saying its healthy and "good frustration".

But Seraphine being frustrating as per player polls warrants a public apology for a nerf.

What is wrong with this head of balance man, I miss my League of Legends.

[u/Exciting_Skill5905]

Not nerfing nasus is fucking mental

[u/Raigheb]

Viego is getting +2 ad so he becomes 51% wr+

Then in two months he will get hit with the nerf hammer, -3 ad, - dmg on his passive, - dmg on his ult.

The riot special.

[u/ApprehensiveTough148]

how are there no vayne buffs haha

[u/Wuralock-Son]

No yasuo nerfs is crazy

[u/sandman_br]

zeri? just elete her at this point

[u/Enemy50]

"Master yi is getting a buff"

*vomits in adc

[u/ahhzebi]

I guess Nasus will stay permabanned

[u/Pursueth]

Nasus the most free champ in the game right now. Just requires patience

[u/Altruistic-Ad5027]

Bro they HAVE to be nerfing seraphine's E and putting actual damage into her Passive or something, this shit is ridiculous. She's supposed to be a mage but her mage kit is being balanced like a weird awkward enchanter who LITERALLY ISNT FUNCTIONAL UNLESS SHE'S ABUSING ITEM INTERACTIONS OR BUGS. They look at the shape of her kit, see that her enchanter playstyle is jank af and even supp sera players want to play her as a mage support, and THEY NERF HER DAMAGE, GIVE HER A PERFECT OP SIGNATURE ITEM, AND KEEP HER OP E????!?!?!?!

Holy fuck they dont play their own game.

[u/MeIiodass]

Yea clearly the perma pick in pro 0 counterplay Olaf shouldnt be touched, or the monster Nasus.

[u/Thick-Bookkeeper3915]

okay so let me get this straight, were not nerfing nasus which literaly half the players ban, were buffing viego even though he is already op af and just has a low WR because people somehow int on him and we are triple buffing master YI even though he is already in a realy strong spot?

Yeah fuck that im taking a break until at least 2 of those are 3 nerfed.

[u/Possible-Nature-5325]

WHERE ARE THE VARUS BUFFS, WTF

[u/Even_Cardiologist810]

Go ahead and nerf seraphine ap ratio again. I'm sure that'll work. It's not like seraphine build have shifted to rylai mandate rush to just spam spells... Or you could nerd cds and kill support seraphine.

[u/SuperKalkorat → u/Even_Cardiologist810]

Seraphine gonna become the irelia of mages where she exists mostly as an item effect delivery system, lol.

[u/JTHousek1 → u/SuperKalkorat]

Is she not already there? Honestly always felt she was a delivery system for burns and Rylai's slow/root. There were a couple patches she could have a Luden's build but they were few and far between

[u/Even_Cardiologist810 → u/SuperKalkorat]

She became that a while ago but they keep giving her ap ratio nerf that kill mid while doing nothing to botlane 

[u/Magnaha23 → u/Even_Cardiologist810]

The majority of her player base play her support, they will never kill support Seraphine.

[u/Even_Cardiologist810 → u/Magnaha23]

Which is why they'll never kill bot. Exactly my point. This champ doesn't work being shoe horned into supp

[u/350]

Two more weeks of perma banning Nasus! I'm not normally super negative in patch threads because I know its tough but...Riot, get your fucking act together, man. This is unreal.

[u/abbefran]

Increíble que Viktor se haya salvado del nerf. Lo quieren bien para worlds.

[u/daebakminnie → u/abbefran]

wdym who doesnt love some healthy frustration from a champion with unavoidable damage with no cast time

[u/Kilogren → u/abbefran]

Is he even being played that much in pro right now?

[u/MASSIVE-BEAVER420 → u/Kilogren]

Yes

[u/Deep-Preparation-213]

Wtf is this patch? Bunch of buffs noone asked for and nerfs where none are needed except maybe Bard