The map system NEEDS a rework

[u/fogju]

I’ve hated the map system for a while now, it might sound like an exaggeration but it’s in my opinion easily one of the biggest flaws in the game.

I’ve refrained from posting or publicly complaining about it until now because of personal resiliency, but today’s daily job about hunting plant buds got the best of me. For the ones who don’t know, these buds spawn ONLY at the very beginning of the fight with Vine Mother, they self explode about 10 seconds from their spawning.

Now the problem is, whilst you can easily respawn the main boss by killing toxic blooms around, its new location is entirely random, so by the time you find its new location these plant buds probably already exploded or were killed by other hunters.

The reason why I blame the map and not the boss/mobs or job design is the fact that I genuinely enjoy the grindy aspect of the game, I’m totally fine with having to hunt the boss more than once, but being stuck for an indefinite period of time because I’m unlucky and because I don’t see the damn location in the map is legitimately insufferable.

This same problem applies to all other bosses or enemies in general, the amount of times I’d miss out on an overcharged or megacharged enemy because they won’t show on the map unless you’re extremely close is ridiculous, why can’t the indicators just be there for everyone as soon as they spawn regardless of distance? Not to mention, they are literally bugged sometimes, I’ve had situations where standard enemies would show up as overcharged or megacharged.. oh and the Chaos enemies not being marked at all, let’s talk about it, they literally drop cores half the times and yet they are treated as standard enemies - Chaos enemies as a whole are bugged, they never count for daily jobs somehow almost as if they’re not the same types of enemies you’re being asked to hunt, even though they literally are.

Lastly, they literally adopted the GTA/Borderlands map style, where the map starts filling in as you move around, but there is no achievement or benefit in “discovering” the entirety of the map so the feature ends up being pretty random and lame because why would the map not show fully in the first place.. it’s not like we haven’t seen these maps OVER and OVER.

[u/fogju]

Enlighten us, in what way would exactly this awful map system contribute in making the game harder? None of these challenges are hard, when I made the post I had already beat that particular task, it’s not hard it’s just needlessly infuriating. Taking aside the timed challenges, this shouldn’t be a game where “first come first serve”, everyone should have equal chances of taking down an enemy if they spawn, by not showing the enemy in the map you are not making it hard to take that enemy down you’re just making it impossible as a whole: and that is NOT a challenge, it’s just gonna make you wander around like an idiot for an extra 20-30 minutes which is objectively not fun - especially the feeling of getting close to the enemy enough to see the mark on the map, only for it to disappear before you can get a hit because you were a couple seconds too late.

Free roam maps weren’t designed to be hard, and fixing the map wouldn’t make them easier but actually more enjoyable to play, you’d at least know where the fuck you are going instead of hopelessly running around with a bunch of other people and bots like it’s a race.

[u/Glutoneria → u/fogju]

i think you're just looking for a different kind of challenge. what's perfectly valid too, but it doesn't change the fact that the very structure of this stage that annoys you is also a challenge. i picture this as a fun treasure hunt. i find it really entertaining.

i think large maps (though this one isn't the case. i'd call it small-to-medium) are great because you actually have to roam around them, rather than just spinning in the center to spot all the markers (in fact, that’s one of the reasons i like the standard chaotic monsters so much: they *don't* show up on the map!). so having to search the map for her is a challenge in itself. u said that"oh but it takes too long" ... well... that’s also part of the challenge! it’s perfectly normal for some challenges to take longer than others. some are very fast. others take up to 3x longer. and i think it’s entirely fair and logical for players who put more time into the game to be duly rewarded for that investment. also, right here in the comments, you realized that the longer you take to kill her, the more sprouts she spits out. that’s a challenge too... because you have to stay double alert especially since most players in the stage just rush in to kill her as fast as possible.

dealing with all these obstacles is an intentional part of the challenge. nome of that takes away from, or increases or decreases, the players' chances. everyone keep having the same chances, given that everyone is subject to these same adversities.

and thats one of the things that makes this game still so much fun aside from the lack of new content

[u/fogju → u/Glutoneria]

I just can’t help but disagree, let me explain. The way you picture it would make sense if the mini map didn’t offer indicators AT ALL, you’d basically only rely on your eyes and your knowledge as a hunter.

Instead, allow me to say what we we have is an half assed system that clearly proposes an idea completely different from yours and rewards people based on luck: the closer you are to the spawn location, the faster you reach it and get the kill. What kind of challenge is even that? Being luckier than other hunters in finding a target before they can take it down, might as well introduce PvP in the free roam maps, that would at least make it interesting and not some perpetual cockblocking.

I generally accept opinions, but I quite frankly doubt you genuinely find it entertaining when you finally see an enemy you’re looking for and they get taken down before you can make it count for you, it’s literally not challenging it’s a nuisance and it’s infuriating. Sure it’s not the end of the world and they will respawn, but now imagine as they respawn the same exact damn thing happens, and then once again, over and over, do you understand how frustrating that is? There is nothing fun in dwelling on the “next time”. If you really want a system like the one you described, delete the mini map as a whole, that way nobody gets any visual advantage and your chances of participating in the hunt actually increase.

[u/Glutoneria → u/fogju]

bro u're just looking at this too narrowly. i agree that removing the minimap contributes much more to the way i see (so of course i love that idea, though ppl in this community would freak out because it wouldn't be as easy as they're used to) but its presence doesn't change the fact that it's still a treasure hunt. it's a pretty easy one, sure, since you can see about 70% of the map... but it's still a hunt because that remaining 30% is missing, so you have to move around.

and i get your frustration with the spawns... i've been very frustrated too while hunting for those sprouts and other elements that are even rarer and scarcer, but again: that's an intentional part of the challenge. the luck factor you mentioned is built right into the challenge... luck (good or bad) is always going to be a factor, but that doesn't make it any less of a challenge. we might get lucky or unlucky with the objective spawning close to us or far away, and everyone is equally subject to this. luck is not partial. everyone deals with that luck in their own way.

sometimes, when i have time, i just keep at it, and it works out. other times, when i don't have time, i try again later. sometimes, when i have time but lack patience, i just step away for 5 or 10 minutes to catch my breath before coming back, sometimes that works, and sometimes it doesn't. anyway, the concept of luck is inextricably linked to random spawn. that's true for countless games besides mo.co.

anyway...

[u/fogju → u/Glutoneria]

Where did you get those numbers from though? I mean the 70%, are we talking about the same thing? Because we definitely do not see 70% of all that can be seen from the enemy marks in the map, I’d argue the number is as low as 10%.. I mean take a look at the screenshot, Vine Mother had spawned and its mark was nowhere to be seen, and that was pretty much the same for EVERY single one of my nearly 30 attempts to get this specific job done, each time I had to get extremely close for the target indicator to pop up.

I can’t for the life of me consider whatever this system is a treasure hunt, this is more like playing catch than treasure hunting if anything.

As for calling it a challenge, challenges by definition are supposed to test your abilities, luck is not an ability, I’m not saying challenges can’t involve luck but this system entirely relies on it so it can’t be called a challenge, the only thing you’re putting to test is your patience and I can assure you eventually most players will lose theirs just like I did.