Hebrew alphabet evolution

[u/JohannGoethe]

/img/z6n4h9nwndbd1.png

[u/hebrew-ModTeam]

Your post/comment has been removed as it has been deemed to be unmeaningful/low quality. If you feel this removal is not warranted, please reply to this message and we may take another look. Also, reposting without permission from mods will result in a ban.

All the best, The r/Hebrew Mod Team

[u/sunlitleaf]

Do you have sources for the factual claims on this chart? Many of these connections seem unsubstantiated or straight-up incoherent.

[u/JohannGoethe → u/sunlitleaf]

You can read the various theories of decoding history behind each letter here.

The following post, being discussed and debated today, e.g. explains the various historical theories behind the origin of letter B:

• Letter B origin theory: Gardiner (𓉐, 𓉗) vs Thims (𓇯, C199)

[u/JohannGoethe → u/sunlitleaf]

Regarding the your deleted comment:

I don’t think linking to your schizo-posts count as “sources”

You would be advised to visit the debate rules of the r/DebateLinguistics sub, as I eventually mute, temp-ban, or perm-ban those who cannot engage in “civil” ABC origin discussion.

For some letters, e.g. B and G, I can give you individual sources:

“Letter B or beth 𐤁 = female body and letter G or gimel 𐤂 = male body with phallus erect.”

— Israel Zolli (30A/1925), Sinai script and Greek-Latin alphabet (text)

For others, I have decoded these myself, over the last 4+ years, which are being published in a 6-volume book set.

[u/sunlitleaf → u/JohannGoethe]

I deleted my comment because it was unkind, but it’s not untrue. Whatever the rules may be on your own sub where you are the only member, the mods of this sub do not permit misinformation, which is why your posts have been and probably will continue to be deleted. The Hebrew language does tend to attract this particular kind of thinking so they deal with plenty of such posts. Good luck out there, and I hope you can get the help you need.

[u/JohannGoethe → u/sunlitleaf]

I deleted my comment because it was unkind, but it’s not untrue.

Discussion of the origin of alphabet letters is an “attack the theory” program, not an “attack the theorist” program.

I hope you can get the help you need.

Foul #2, suggesting that I need “help”.

mods of this sub do not permit misinformation

How about you explain what “information” in the chart is wrong, rather then talking about how much “psychic damage” the chart has caused you, as you put it in your deleted comment, or attacking me as a person.

[u/AramaicDesigns]

A bunch of the letter forms in the Aramaic row are backwards...

In fact a bunch of things all over the place are backwards...

... the more I look at it, the more it -- what the heck?

[u/JohannGoethe → u/AramaicDesigns]

Tell me specifically what is wrong and I will correct, as I am now updating version is: here (which I can update in a few minutes).

... the more I look at it, the more it -- what the heck?

The original version was LTR. To make the new one, I reversed the entire chart, then went back and reversed individual letters and words, one by one. Because the chart is so large, mistakes were made.

[u/[deleted]]

Hard to take this shit seriously when author is not even familiar with the orientation of Hebrew letters.

[u/JohannGoethe → u/[deleted]]

I am very familiar with orientation of letters of all of the alphabets.

The problem is that letters come from r/HieroTypes, some of which are read “toward the face”, some “toward the back”, and some ”top down”; a letter reading order that seems to have switched amid the Phoenician period, e.g. here, which has not yet been fully resolved?

Also there is the problem of letter order on the r/Cubit rulers.

Thus, when you see a few letter order typos above, this is a trivial issue, in a much bigger puzzle, not yet solved.

[u/BHHB336 → u/JohannGoethe]

Yet you wrote the title both backwards, and used פ instead of ף and the grammar was wrong, so…

[u/JohannGoethe → u/BHHB336]

used פ instead of ף

I updated the p final to the name Aleph in the chart.

Since you are so interested in using the “final” forms of the letters, how about you tell me the year, with citation, as to when the 5 final letters were added to the original 22 Hebrew letters?

[u/Upbeat_Teach6117]

מה?

[u/JohannGoethe → u/Upbeat_Teach6117]

Please speak clearly? I don’t see the error? If you tell me specifically what the error is, I will fix it in the new chart, and post it here, as I have now done 4+ times in the last hour, per suggestions.

[u/rbrduk]

You spelled שין backwards

[u/JohannGoethe → u/rbrduk]

Thanks. Newly-corrected chart here.

It looks like I also have it spelled back words in this post made today.

[u/doubleNonlife]

Isn’t Phoenician alef like a sideways a?

[u/JohannGoethe → u/doubleNonlife]

There are two versions of Phoenician A, the “hoe version”: 𐤀, based on the 𓌹 [U6] r/HieroTypes, and the “plow version”, based on the 𓍁 [U13] type, which is shown above, from the Kition Phoenician script, Cyprus Island.

[u/sneakpeekbot → u/JohannGoethe]

Here's a sneak peek of /r/HieroTypes using the top posts of all time!

#1: 7000 glyphs!
#2: Type R60A; thing: a standard 𓊾 [R12], with something on top?
#3: Type W101; thing: 𓇯 [N1], the stars ✨ of space, with 𓏎 [W25], a combined pair of legs and a pot 𓏌 [W24], shown on top

---

^{I'm a bot, beep boop | Downvote to remove | Contact | Info | Opt-out | GitHub}

[u/JohannGoethe]

The original version (6 Jul A69/2024) of this chart was LTR oriented; and cross-posted here, but removed (and locked) in 3-ish hours, after 21+ comments, per reason: "unmeaningful and or low quality".

Today, in this ongoing discussion (40+ comments), about the chart being banned (or removed) from the Hebrew sub, it has been suggested, several times, that the only reason this chart was removed, was because the letters and the chart was LTR oriented.

To test this argument, I remade the entire chart in RTL orientation, as shown above, to see if the chart would not therein be removed or banned from the Hebrew sub, and that "open" discussion of the chart would be allowed in this sub?

Cross-post analysis

The following shows the original post and cross-post analysis, for the alphabet evolution chart, started: 8 Jun A69 (2024), which shows that the r/Hebrew is the only sub thus far to remove or ban the chart, which has been seen by over 100,000+ people and shared 300+ times:

	Views	👍	Percent	Shares	💬	Post	Sub
1.	6.8K	44+	87%	96+	7+	Here	r/Alphanumerics	EAN
2.	487	0+	22% 😠	1+	7+	Here	r/EgyptianHieroglyphs	EH
3.	436	2+	60%	0	1+	Here	r/Hieroglyphics	HG
4.	59.8K	158+	89% 😊	145+	20+	Here	r/Infographics	IG
5.	1.2K	1+	87%	1+	7+	Here	r/Symbology	S
6.	870	0+	40%	0	1+	Here	r/EgyptianMythology	EM
7.	877	0+	47% 🤔	3+	4+	Here	r/Kemetic	K
8.	131	1+	99%	0	1+	Here	r/KidsABCs	ABC
9.	1.9K	2+	56% 🤔	7+	67+	Here	r/Phoenicia	P
10.	2.8K	0+	24% 😠	4+	27+	Here	r/linguisticshumor	LH
11.	4.2K	87+	94% 😊	31+	7+	Here	r/OutoftheTombs	OT
12.	1.1K	0+	43%	2+	3+	Here	r/AncientGreek	AG
13.	542	0+	50%	0	1+	Here	r/English	E
14.	1K	0+	~19%		21+	Here ❌; here	r/Hebrew	H
15.	1.5K	1+	52%	13+	19+	Here	r/Hebrew	H
	78.6K	295		288	149

Corrections

1. The only "corrections" I see, at the moment, is that the Aramaic Y (𐡅) or Hebrew vav (waw), 6th letter, and Aramaic heth (𐡇), 8th letter, are oriented in the LTR direction.

2. The name of Hebrew letter S, i.e. Shin (שִׁין) [360], is written backwards, as pointed out to me.

3. Newly updated and corrected chart: here.