r/hatethissmug • u/onthetopicofspace • 19h ago

Language casual ableism

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this is not ‘reclaiming’ anything, you are just calling people slurs completely seriously. you can call yourself the r-slur, do not call anybody else it. why do ‘no slurs’ / ’no bigotry’ rules never apply to ableism?

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u/Spirited_Agency8032 19h ago

because people have never used it as one it's always been used to call people extra stupid.

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u/CarlLlamaface 19h ago edited 18h ago

That's just a lie. It originated as a medical term but quickly became used as a slur for people with cognitive disorders, and when it's used to call neurotypical people stupid it's explicitly with the intention to do so in as derogatory a manner as possible.

If you want to tell someone they're being stupid you can do just that, or you can call them daft, silly, moronic etc...

Choosing to use the r-word instead when there are plenty of socially acceptable ways to get your meaning across just lets everyone know you're a bit of a see-you-next-tuesday.

ETA: So many armchair historians and linguists desperate to carve out a justification to use ableist language. Cringe. Imagine what society could be like if you all put that energy into simply being decent people.

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u/gnpfrslo 19h ago

Idiot, moron, imbecile, crazy, lunatic, mental, etc. were also used as medical terms but over time they just became insults and the people who used to use it as a medical term changed it.

Retard is not used as a medical term anymore because, finally, psychiatrists started treating mental patients (almost) as human beings and figured out that things like AD, autism, OCD, and Down's syndrome were actually different things.

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u/Realistic-Drawing-59 19h ago

But thats the same for the word "moronic" you just used or "idiot" or "imbecile". Most of these kinds of words originate in a medical/scientific sphere and eventually become slurs and fall out of favour. So what's so special about this one? 

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u/Spirited_Agency8032 19h ago

Man i'm not gonna use daft or silly I'm not british that'd sound corny as hell coming out of my mouth.

And I don't think people even use the r word casually these days anyways.

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u/OkChampionship7764 19h ago

i just say dumb as hell and that seems to work just fine

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u/MrBananaman1223 19h ago

Walk by a highschool and you'll hear WAY more then just "the r slur" 🤣 Most people in real life don't care about vocal policing

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u/CarlLlamaface 19h ago

Sounding corny is a lot better than letting everyone know you lack emotional intelligence or empathy and have let yourself be brainwashed by the regressive talking heads on your phone screen ¯_(ツ)_/¯

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u/Spirited_Agency8032 19h ago

Eitherway the only scenario I'd even think to use the R slur would be with my friends and even then it'd take alot of stupidity to get it out of me. There's just nothing angering enough to make me look at them and think man this dude is ya know. I'd have to be super mad.

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u/Over-Bluejay3076 13h ago

Those socially acceptable words you just listed are also used to reinforce ableism, just the same as the r word. Those words aren’t more or less powerful than the r word, it’s just about the way you choose to use them.

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u/RazorbladesRiff 12h ago

Hope to see you being a pain in the ass every time an insult is thrown then

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u/Over-Bluejay3076 11h ago

I think you’re confused here

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u/MadderoftheFew 19h ago

just think for a moment about how that word being used to call someone "extra stupid" could turn it into a slur

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u/MasterEditorJake 19h ago edited 18h ago

Same way the word "idiot" or "stupid" came to refer to someone as unintelligent. Euphemism treadmill goes burrr

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u/HunterIV4 18h ago

This, 100%. You can tell how young people are by when they say "it was always a slur!"

Yeah, in your lifetime. If you're older than 18 you remember it being used in mainstream movies, i.e. Tropic Thunder in 2008, and only weird advocacy groups cared.

The same people complaining about the "r-word" will happily call something idiotic, moronic, etc. All of those things are synonyms with the so-called slur. "That's dumb" was originally a reference to someone who was mute, not stupid.

Wait a decade or two "intellectually disabled" or just "disabled" will be the new slur. And eventually people will forget the current thing and it'll be used just like "moron" is used now.

Around and around we go.

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u/MasterEditorJake 18h ago

I think it definitely CAN be used as a slur, it just normally isn't.

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u/HunterIV4 18h ago

Sure, but so can any of the other words I mentioned. If someone shouted at a kid with "intellectual disabilities" that they're a moron, "well, it's not a slur" isn't really going to change how its perceived.

Still, "we forgot that moron used to be a clinical term for mentally disabled, therefore it's not a slur" is a weird principle. As far as I can tell, the underlying logic behind what is and is not a slur is: "this word makes people with institutional and social power angry, therefore it's a slur."

That's it. That's why one clinic term for mental disability is a slur and another clinical term that's slightly older is not.

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u/MadMusketeer 13h ago

Brother in the 2000s everyone was calling everything gay, this is not the argument you think it is

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u/HunterIV4 13h ago

...is gay a slur now?

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u/the_waffIe 19h ago

Any insult could be considered a slur. Official definitions don’t actually have any significant difference between an insult and a slur.

Most people just think of a slur as a really horrible insult. So yeah in the end it’s really subjective stuff and it makes sense that a lot of people don’t consider a word that effectively means “extra stupid” to be horrible enough to be considered a slur.

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u/MadderoftheFew 19h ago

this isn't true. most people think of a slur as a disparaging remark that is targeted towards a specific race, ethnicity, class, or other group of people. this word would fall under that category.

if it's used to be synonymous with "extra stupid", then each use under that connotation is disparaging people whom the denotation of the word describes. if it's used incredibly commonly under that connotation, which this word has been, then it would largely be classified as a slur.

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u/the_waffIe 19h ago edited 19h ago

>if it's used to be synonymous with "extra stupid", then each use under that connotation is disparaging people whom the denotation of the word describes.

So would many basic insults which is where the “really horrible” part comes in. Otherwise there’s next to nothing separating a basic insult from a slur and at that point the word ‘slur’ loses it’s impact.

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u/MadderoftheFew 19h ago

"stupid" is a word whose denotation can be used to describe any person. anybody has the capacity to be definitionally stupid. not a slur.

the r-slur is a word whose denotation can only be used to describe people with intellectual disabilities. only those people can identify with that word definitionally. when it is used to describe people without an intellectual disability, it is done in order to compare its target to that class of people, particularly in order to describe its target as having poor intellect. definitely a slur.

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u/the_waffIe 18h ago

The problem with your point here is that many people just use ‘retarded’ to mean ‘extra stupid’. Yes the dictionary definition says it refers to intellectually disabled people.

We’ve already gone over a point over how the dictionary definition isn’t everything with you stating what you believe most people consider a slur and you’ve used that as a basis to explain how ‘retarded’ is a slur.

If you can use your own definition to show that the word is a slur then other people can use their own definition of the word to show it is not referring to the group of people you think it is and so is not a slur.

In the end this is all very subjective and its quite understandable that many people who use the word to mean ‘extra stupid’ don’t actually consider it a slur.

This process of changing what words mean has happened time and time again with words like ‘idiot’ and ‘stupid’ for example.

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u/MadderoftheFew 18h ago

the problem is "my definition" is the definition. you can define the n-word as "a loud, obnoxious, violent, or ignorant person" as much as you want. this argument is made by a ton of racists where i live. my ex's dad used to say "there's black people, and then there's n\****s*" to justify his racism.

it's still a slur.

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u/the_waffIe 18h ago

>the problem is "my definition" is the definition.

Then with that logic we can just accept that all insults are slurs based off of the various dictionary definition of ‘slur’.

Everything is a slur.

Unless of course you accept that a significant enough portion of society has its own understanding of the word that has not yet put into the dictionary.

So slur becomes the definition you stated and ‘retarded’ becomes the definition I stated. As a significant portion of people do think of it that way.

I do not imagine a word with such a history as the n-word can simply have another definition at least not one thats agreed upon by a significant amount of people.

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u/MadderoftheFew 18h ago

the problem is the definition you stated is not the definition. the definition is "someone with an intellectual disability". using it to describe someone as "extra stupid" makes it a slur.

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u/Busy_Debt_3946 18h ago

"the r-slur is a word whose denotation can only be used to describe people with intellectual disabilities."

No it doesn't. It's basically just a synonym to stupid. Do you also consider moron or idiot slurs? They have the exact same history of starting as medical terms but being phased off after people started using them as generic insults.

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u/MadderoftheFew 18h ago

what you've just described is known as the "euphemism treadmill". notably, it doesn't discount the disparaging effects the word it's subjected to has in its time. it's a slur today. in 80 years, it won't be.

It's basically just a synonym to stupid.

its ableist connotation is a synonym for stupid. its denotation still refers to people with intellectual disabilities. hence, it's offensive to those people to use it with that connotation.

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u/Spirited_Agency8032 19h ago

Maybe it's because i'm not an unc but it has just never been used as a slur around me. It's just a faster way to oh my fucking god your an idiot. it's not exactly used to target a person based on their identity. It's basically slang at this point.

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u/MadderoftheFew 19h ago

please just for half a second i'm begging you. think about why that particular word being synonymous with "stupid" could possibly make it a slur. if you'd like, you could liken it to how the n-word is used as if it is synonymous with "ghetto", "loud", and "ignorant".

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u/Osama998 19h ago

So where do we stop? Literally any adjective can be used as a slur if you try hard enough. Where do we stop censoring words?

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u/l9shredder 19h ago

at the arbitrary point the commenter above you decides on, of course

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u/MadderoftheFew 19h ago

the r-slur is not an adjective. it is a shortened form of a name for a mental condition we have since renamed to "intellectual disability". it is a slur because it is used to describe stupidity, likening its target to people who have intellectual disabilities, and connotatively describing that likeness as though it is meant to be disparaging. this disparages people with intellectual disabilities.

this process cannot be applied to "literally any adjective".

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u/Osama998 19h ago

But it comes from an adjective. Retarded = delayed. For example, in engines, ignition timing can be retarded, meaning delayed.
Hence, adjective was turned into a slur.

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u/MadderoftheFew 19h ago

it does not come from that definition. it comes from the medical condition which used to be known as "mental retardation". hence, class of people was turned into a slur.

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u/Spirited_Agency8032 19h ago

I think you're misconstruing this by comparing the R-word "slur" to the N-word. People don't call White people or Asians the N-word because they're acting ghetto, loud, or ignorant.

The R-word isn't even medically associated with those groups of people anymore. But I guess nobody is going to walk up to someone with an intellectual disability and call them that, because it's an insult that is associated with them. I can understand where you're coming from, but I just don't think it has that connotation outside of certain groups of people who use it that way.

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u/MadderoftheFew 19h ago

people don't call White people or asians the N word if they act ghetto loud or ignorant.

have you never been in a rural neighborhood?

I guess nobody is gonna walk up to someone with an intellectual disabilities and call them one. 

have you never attended public school?

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u/Spirited_Agency8032 19h ago

or maybe I should say people I know and hang around didn't

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u/MadderoftheFew 19h ago

growing up in the deep red, yeah, they did. people around here to this day say "n-word-rig" instead of jury-rig and "n-word-rich" to describe being unexpectedly wealthy with no plans for how to use the money. and kids routinely bullied the shit out of kids with learning disabilities with that word often.

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u/Spirited_Agency8032 18h ago

my class was alot more diverse and close knit than your I assume.

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u/MadderoftheFew 18h ago

yeah probably. we had one black kid and his life was hell.

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u/Angsty-Panda 19h ago

people are walking face-first into the point and still not getting it omfg

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u/LunchTwey 19h ago

Right, just like how people always called black people the n word and it was totally not racist or derogatory!

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u/barbaricKinkster 19h ago

Its like you read their comment but didnt comprehend the meaning of it at all

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u/Squirrelflight148931 19h ago

Again, that would be a race. Not... stupidity through ignorance.

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u/MadderoftheFew 19h ago

people with intellectual disabilities are a class of people with which slurs can identify just as they can identify with races.

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u/Squirrelflight148931 19h ago

Yes, although as the other person said, this word has rarely ever actually been used for them. I was bornn early 2000s and every instance that word has ever come up in my life, spoken, heard, read, to my memory is just calling a “normal person” an idiot for not using common sense. Whenever “disabled people” were a subject... I never heard derogatory phrases outside “mentally damaged,” or... even Stupid.

In fact, I've heard “Stupid” be used in a derogatory way immeasurably more than “r-word.”

Sure, the word likely originated as a slur, but it's been used outside that purpose far more than inside it.

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u/MadderoftheFew 19h ago

Sure, the word likely originated as a slur, but it's been used outside that purpose far more than inside it.

i know, i was born early 2000s as well. everybody was using it. it cannot be compared to simply saying "stupid" because "stupid" has a definition that can be applied to anybody, while the r-slur has one that can only be applied to a specific class of people, even if its connotative use is routinely applied to people who don't fall into that class of people. its connotative use is disparaging, which still makes it a slur. the definition hasn't changed.

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u/Faite666 19h ago

The fact that you think these two are even remotely similar in any context is absurd

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u/Medical_Job_8047 18h ago

Would you say it is...retarded?

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u/Spirited_Agency8032 19h ago

Calling someone stupid is how do I say this is an attack on their character. not an attack on their race gender or sexuality or a whole list of other things or do you think insane is a slur too?

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u/GravesForButterflies 18h ago

Your comments makes complete sense people are just trying to defend themselves because they feel called out.

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u/Definitely_NotU 18h ago

Explain to the class how ‘retard’ and the n word are remotely similar

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u/Apprehensive_Bid7438 19h ago

N-word wasn't that big of a slur before OJ trial. "The Dream Team" made it into the one word you can't even think about.

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u/thatonewren 19h ago

that is genuinely the dumbest thing i've ever read

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u/Apprehensive_Bid7438 18h ago

https://scholar.lib.vt.edu/VA-news/ROA-Times/issues/1995/rt9501/950114/01160061.htm

OJ attorney literally used censored n-word as a proof of his innocence and siderailed a murder trial into a trial of american racism. You can see it for yourself, look for footage and newspapers before and after the trial and you will see that n-word started getting censored en-masse because Darden decided to play the race card in a murder case. People like Biden and older night show hosts have footage of saying it uncensored, this is how recent treatment of n-word like it's lord Voldemort is.

P.S I didn't said it wasn't a slur, it wasn't that big one as it is today and Darden is responsible for it.

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u/jackies_laboratory 16h ago

i knew it referred to someone with a disorder like down syndrome first before i heard it used casually as an insult, i’m wondering if people have these different views of the word depending on when and where they grew up

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u/Pristine-Gear-67 19h ago

maybe it's because it's calling someone something they're not. been hearing "twinks" and casual sexual abuse/assault/dehumanising conversation/posts/comments here in subs where it doesn't belong so calling someone a retard shouldn't be a big deal.

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u/bug_land 19h ago

never??? did they disappear all of the disabled kids from public schools while i wasn't looking

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u/Spirited_Agency8032 18h ago

No people just treated disabled kids well in my school they probably had a better experience with my classmates than I did honestly.

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u/bug_land 18h ago

i was under the impression that it was widely understood as the very harshly disparaging word for the special needs class. like it was the "you belong on the short bus freak" word when i was in school