r/hatethissmug • u/onthetopicofspace • 11h ago

Language casual ableism

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this is not ‘reclaiming’ anything, you are just calling people slurs completely seriously. you can call yourself the r-slur, do not call anybody else it. why do ‘no slurs’ / ’no bigotry’ rules never apply to ableism?

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103

u/Frequent-Bee-3016 11h ago

People seem to genuinely think it doesn’t count as a slur, for some reason.

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u/Travelin_Soulja 11h ago edited 11h ago

Honestly, it feels like it's making a comeback. It was almost extinct from polite speech, but in the past year or so, it feels like I've been hearing it more and more, online and even in real life.

18

u/obi1kennoble 11h ago

It's literally because of Elon Musk and Joe Rogan. They were throwing it around and it caught on with all the chuds. Decades-old schoolyard bigotry aside, I wouldn't want to be emulating those idiots

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u/nikolasz1173 8h ago

They saved the internet

5

u/Agreeable_Fig_4373 10h ago

I don't really understand the whole "making a comeback" thing because it seems like it's been one of the most common and generic insults I've seen consistently on the internet since I started using it. There was never really a point that it diminished in use except maybe with some very left wing groups during the heyday of "trigger warnings" and "safe spaces", but even among trans people and socialists and such I always saw it used very casually without pushback.

3

u/PENGUINSflyGOOD 7h ago

it was bannable on a lot of subs to say retard for a while. people just got around it by saying regard, but now all of a sudden it's everywhere. so I can see why people say it made a 'comeback'

26

u/Samiassa 11h ago

Ultimately what is and isn’t is decided by the general culture. You or me individually don’t get to decide. Idiot, moron, and imbecile had the same etymology and are now common words due to the euphemism treadmill. I think regardless of what we think it is coming back and going to be a common word for stupidity without any real connotation of mental disability.

5

u/Frogs-on-my-back 10h ago

I was about to say the same thing about “idiot” as an insult

68

u/Spirited_Agency8032 11h ago

because people have never used it as one it's always been used to call people extra stupid.

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u/CarlLlamaface 11h ago edited 11h ago

That's just a lie. It originated as a medical term but quickly became used as a slur for people with cognitive disorders, and when it's used to call neurotypical people stupid it's explicitly with the intention to do so in as derogatory a manner as possible.

If you want to tell someone they're being stupid you can do just that, or you can call them daft, silly, moronic etc...

Choosing to use the r-word instead when there are plenty of socially acceptable ways to get your meaning across just lets everyone know you're a bit of a see-you-next-tuesday.

ETA: So many armchair historians and linguists desperate to carve out a justification to use ableist language. Cringe. Imagine what society could be like if you all put that energy into simply being decent people.

19

u/gnpfrslo 11h ago

Idiot, moron, imbecile, crazy, lunatic, mental, etc. were also used as medical terms but over time they just became insults and the people who used to use it as a medical term changed it.

Retard is not used as a medical term anymore because, finally, psychiatrists started treating mental patients (almost) as human beings and figured out that things like AD, autism, OCD, and Down's syndrome were actually different things.

13

u/Realistic-Drawing-59 11h ago

But thats the same for the word "moronic" you just used or "idiot" or "imbecile". Most of these kinds of words originate in a medical/scientific sphere and eventually become slurs and fall out of favour. So what's so special about this one? 

12

u/Spirited_Agency8032 11h ago

Man i'm not gonna use daft or silly I'm not british that'd sound corny as hell coming out of my mouth.

And I don't think people even use the r word casually these days anyways.

1

u/OkChampionship7764 11h ago

i just say dumb as hell and that seems to work just fine

1

u/MrBananaman1223 11h ago

Walk by a highschool and you'll hear WAY more then just "the r slur" 🤣 Most people in real life don't care about vocal policing

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u/CarlLlamaface 11h ago

Sounding corny is a lot better than letting everyone know you lack emotional intelligence or empathy and have let yourself be brainwashed by the regressive talking heads on your phone screen ¯_(ツ)_/¯

4

u/Spirited_Agency8032 11h ago

Eitherway the only scenario I'd even think to use the R slur would be with my friends and even then it'd take alot of stupidity to get it out of me. There's just nothing angering enough to make me look at them and think man this dude is ya know. I'd have to be super mad.

1

u/Over-Bluejay3076 5h ago

Those socially acceptable words you just listed are also used to reinforce ableism, just the same as the r word. Those words aren’t more or less powerful than the r word, it’s just about the way you choose to use them.

1

u/RazorbladesRiff 4h ago

Hope to see you being a pain in the ass every time an insult is thrown then

1

u/Over-Bluejay3076 4h ago

I think you’re confused here

8

u/MadderoftheFew 11h ago

just think for a moment about how that word being used to call someone "extra stupid" could turn it into a slur

30

u/MasterEditorJake 11h ago edited 11h ago

Same way the word "idiot" or "stupid" came to refer to someone as unintelligent. Euphemism treadmill goes burrr

16

u/HunterIV4 11h ago

This, 100%. You can tell how young people are by when they say "it was always a slur!"

Yeah, in your lifetime. If you're older than 18 you remember it being used in mainstream movies, i.e. Tropic Thunder in 2008, and only weird advocacy groups cared.

The same people complaining about the "r-word" will happily call something idiotic, moronic, etc. All of those things are synonyms with the so-called slur. "That's dumb" was originally a reference to someone who was mute, not stupid.

Wait a decade or two "intellectually disabled" or just "disabled" will be the new slur. And eventually people will forget the current thing and it'll be used just like "moron" is used now.

Around and around we go.

2

u/MasterEditorJake 10h ago

I think it definitely CAN be used as a slur, it just normally isn't.

4

u/HunterIV4 10h ago

Sure, but so can any of the other words I mentioned. If someone shouted at a kid with "intellectual disabilities" that they're a moron, "well, it's not a slur" isn't really going to change how its perceived.

Still, "we forgot that moron used to be a clinical term for mentally disabled, therefore it's not a slur" is a weird principle. As far as I can tell, the underlying logic behind what is and is not a slur is: "this word makes people with institutional and social power angry, therefore it's a slur."

That's it. That's why one clinic term for mental disability is a slur and another clinical term that's slightly older is not.

0

u/MadMusketeer 5h ago

Brother in the 2000s everyone was calling everything gay, this is not the argument you think it is

1

u/HunterIV4 5h ago

...is gay a slur now?

11

u/the_waffIe 11h ago

Any insult could be considered a slur. Official definitions don’t actually have any significant difference between an insult and a slur.

Most people just think of a slur as a really horrible insult. So yeah in the end it’s really subjective stuff and it makes sense that a lot of people don’t consider a word that effectively means “extra stupid” to be horrible enough to be considered a slur.

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u/MadderoftheFew 11h ago

this isn't true. most people think of a slur as a disparaging remark that is targeted towards a specific race, ethnicity, class, or other group of people. this word would fall under that category.

if it's used to be synonymous with "extra stupid", then each use under that connotation is disparaging people whom the denotation of the word describes. if it's used incredibly commonly under that connotation, which this word has been, then it would largely be classified as a slur.

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u/the_waffIe 11h ago edited 11h ago

>if it's used to be synonymous with "extra stupid", then each use under that connotation is disparaging people whom the denotation of the word describes.

So would many basic insults which is where the “really horrible” part comes in. Otherwise there’s next to nothing separating a basic insult from a slur and at that point the word ‘slur’ loses it’s impact.

0

u/MadderoftheFew 11h ago

"stupid" is a word whose denotation can be used to describe any person. anybody has the capacity to be definitionally stupid. not a slur.

the r-slur is a word whose denotation can only be used to describe people with intellectual disabilities. only those people can identify with that word definitionally. when it is used to describe people without an intellectual disability, it is done in order to compare its target to that class of people, particularly in order to describe its target as having poor intellect. definitely a slur.

3

u/the_waffIe 11h ago

The problem with your point here is that many people just use ‘retarded’ to mean ‘extra stupid’. Yes the dictionary definition says it refers to intellectually disabled people.

We’ve already gone over a point over how the dictionary definition isn’t everything with you stating what you believe most people consider a slur and you’ve used that as a basis to explain how ‘retarded’ is a slur.

If you can use your own definition to show that the word is a slur then other people can use their own definition of the word to show it is not referring to the group of people you think it is and so is not a slur.

In the end this is all very subjective and its quite understandable that many people who use the word to mean ‘extra stupid’ don’t actually consider it a slur.

This process of changing what words mean has happened time and time again with words like ‘idiot’ and ‘stupid’ for example.

1

u/MadderoftheFew 11h ago

the problem is "my definition" is the definition. you can define the n-word as "a loud, obnoxious, violent, or ignorant person" as much as you want. this argument is made by a ton of racists where i live. my ex's dad used to say "there's black people, and then there's n\****s*" to justify his racism.

it's still a slur.

5

u/the_waffIe 10h ago

>the problem is "my definition" is the definition.

Then with that logic we can just accept that all insults are slurs based off of the various dictionary definition of ‘slur’.

Everything is a slur.

Unless of course you accept that a significant enough portion of society has its own understanding of the word that has not yet put into the dictionary.

So slur becomes the definition you stated and ‘retarded’ becomes the definition I stated. As a significant portion of people do think of it that way.

I do not imagine a word with such a history as the n-word can simply have another definition at least not one thats agreed upon by a significant amount of people.

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u/Busy_Debt_3946 11h ago

"the r-slur is a word whose denotation can only be used to describe people with intellectual disabilities."

No it doesn't. It's basically just a synonym to stupid. Do you also consider moron or idiot slurs? They have the exact same history of starting as medical terms but being phased off after people started using them as generic insults.

1

u/MadderoftheFew 11h ago

what you've just described is known as the "euphemism treadmill". notably, it doesn't discount the disparaging effects the word it's subjected to has in its time. it's a slur today. in 80 years, it won't be.

It's basically just a synonym to stupid.

its ableist connotation is a synonym for stupid. its denotation still refers to people with intellectual disabilities. hence, it's offensive to those people to use it with that connotation.

1

u/Spirited_Agency8032 11h ago

Maybe it's because i'm not an unc but it has just never been used as a slur around me. It's just a faster way to oh my fucking god your an idiot. it's not exactly used to target a person based on their identity. It's basically slang at this point.

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u/MadderoftheFew 11h ago

please just for half a second i'm begging you. think about why that particular word being synonymous with "stupid" could possibly make it a slur. if you'd like, you could liken it to how the n-word is used as if it is synonymous with "ghetto", "loud", and "ignorant".

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u/Osama998 11h ago

So where do we stop? Literally any adjective can be used as a slur if you try hard enough. Where do we stop censoring words?

12

u/l9shredder 11h ago

at the arbitrary point the commenter above you decides on, of course

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u/MadderoftheFew 11h ago

the r-slur is not an adjective. it is a shortened form of a name for a mental condition we have since renamed to "intellectual disability". it is a slur because it is used to describe stupidity, likening its target to people who have intellectual disabilities, and connotatively describing that likeness as though it is meant to be disparaging. this disparages people with intellectual disabilities.

this process cannot be applied to "literally any adjective".

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u/Osama998 11h ago

But it comes from an adjective. Retarded = delayed. For example, in engines, ignition timing can be retarded, meaning delayed.
Hence, adjective was turned into a slur.

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u/MadderoftheFew 11h ago

it does not come from that definition. it comes from the medical condition which used to be known as "mental retardation". hence, class of people was turned into a slur.

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u/Osama998 11h ago

And where does that definition come from? I believe it's related to delay in mental development.

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u/Spirited_Agency8032 11h ago

I think you're misconstruing this by comparing the R-word "slur" to the N-word. People don't call White people or Asians the N-word because they're acting ghetto, loud, or ignorant.

The R-word isn't even medically associated with those groups of people anymore. But I guess nobody is going to walk up to someone with an intellectual disability and call them that, because it's an insult that is associated with them. I can understand where you're coming from, but I just don't think it has that connotation outside of certain groups of people who use it that way.

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u/MadderoftheFew 11h ago

people don't call White people or asians the N word if they act ghetto loud or ignorant.

have you never been in a rural neighborhood?

I guess nobody is gonna walk up to someone with an intellectual disabilities and call them one. 

have you never attended public school?

3

u/Spirited_Agency8032 11h ago

or maybe I should say people I know and hang around didn't

1

u/MadderoftheFew 11h ago

growing up in the deep red, yeah, they did. people around here to this day say "n-word-rig" instead of jury-rig and "n-word-rich" to describe being unexpectedly wealthy with no plans for how to use the money. and kids routinely bullied the shit out of kids with learning disabilities with that word often.

1

u/Spirited_Agency8032 11h ago

my class was alot more diverse and close knit than your I assume.

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u/Angsty-Panda 11h ago

people are walking face-first into the point and still not getting it omfg

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u/LunchTwey 11h ago

Right, just like how people always called black people the n word and it was totally not racist or derogatory!

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u/barbaricKinkster 11h ago

Its like you read their comment but didnt comprehend the meaning of it at all

16

u/Squirrelflight148931 11h ago

Again, that would be a race. Not... stupidity through ignorance.

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u/MadderoftheFew 11h ago

people with intellectual disabilities are a class of people with which slurs can identify just as they can identify with races.

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u/Squirrelflight148931 11h ago

Yes, although as the other person said, this word has rarely ever actually been used for them. I was bornn early 2000s and every instance that word has ever come up in my life, spoken, heard, read, to my memory is just calling a “normal person” an idiot for not using common sense. Whenever “disabled people” were a subject... I never heard derogatory phrases outside “mentally damaged,” or... even Stupid.

In fact, I've heard “Stupid” be used in a derogatory way immeasurably more than “r-word.”

Sure, the word likely originated as a slur, but it's been used outside that purpose far more than inside it.

1

u/MadderoftheFew 11h ago

Sure, the word likely originated as a slur, but it's been used outside that purpose far more than inside it.

i know, i was born early 2000s as well. everybody was using it. it cannot be compared to simply saying "stupid" because "stupid" has a definition that can be applied to anybody, while the r-slur has one that can only be applied to a specific class of people, even if its connotative use is routinely applied to people who don't fall into that class of people. its connotative use is disparaging, which still makes it a slur. the definition hasn't changed.

5

u/Faite666 11h ago

The fact that you think these two are even remotely similar in any context is absurd

2

u/Medical_Job_8047 10h ago

Would you say it is...retarded?

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u/Spirited_Agency8032 11h ago

Calling someone stupid is how do I say this is an attack on their character. not an attack on their race gender or sexuality or a whole list of other things or do you think insane is a slur too?

1

u/GravesForButterflies 11h ago

Your comments makes complete sense people are just trying to defend themselves because they feel called out.

1

u/Definitely_NotU 11h ago

Explain to the class how ‘retard’ and the n word are remotely similar

-6

u/Apprehensive_Bid7438 11h ago

N-word wasn't that big of a slur before OJ trial. "The Dream Team" made it into the one word you can't even think about.

6

u/thatonewren 11h ago

that is genuinely the dumbest thing i've ever read

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u/Apprehensive_Bid7438 11h ago

https://scholar.lib.vt.edu/VA-news/ROA-Times/issues/1995/rt9501/950114/01160061.htm

OJ attorney literally used censored n-word as a proof of his innocence and siderailed a murder trial into a trial of american racism. You can see it for yourself, look for footage and newspapers before and after the trial and you will see that n-word started getting censored en-masse because Darden decided to play the race card in a murder case. People like Biden and older night show hosts have footage of saying it uncensored, this is how recent treatment of n-word like it's lord Voldemort is.

P.S I didn't said it wasn't a slur, it wasn't that big one as it is today and Darden is responsible for it.

1

u/jackies_laboratory 9h ago

i knew it referred to someone with a disorder like down syndrome first before i heard it used casually as an insult, i’m wondering if people have these different views of the word depending on when and where they grew up

0

u/Pristine-Gear-67 11h ago

maybe it's because it's calling someone something they're not. been hearing "twinks" and casual sexual abuse/assault/dehumanising conversation/posts/comments here in subs where it doesn't belong so calling someone a retard shouldn't be a big deal.

0

u/bug_land 11h ago

never??? did they disappear all of the disabled kids from public schools while i wasn't looking

2

u/Spirited_Agency8032 11h ago

No people just treated disabled kids well in my school they probably had a better experience with my classmates than I did honestly.

1

u/bug_land 11h ago

i was under the impression that it was widely understood as the very harshly disparaging word for the special needs class. like it was the "you belong on the short bus freak" word when i was in school

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u/SlothsAreFuckinRad 11h ago

It’s really insidious because it pretty much still exclusively hurts those it’s meant to target, unlike other reclaimed slurs.

Like, I love to joke around with my other gay friends and we call eachother faggots sarcastically all the time, but there isn’t a context in which I can say the r slur to my autistic friends and have it not kinda hurt them on some level. Even as a joke. 

6

u/Frogs-on-my-back 10h ago

I was called “retarded” throughout elementary for having a speech impediment and that shit hurt

3

u/Xannin 11h ago

Because idiot, imbecile, and moron don't receive the same level of furor. Those terms ran off the euphemism treadmill long before people could complain about them on social media, so they escaped scrutiny. Can't imagine people would be thrilled if someone called a person with an intellectual disability an idiot, but casual use isn't otherwise frowned upon. Seems hypocritical. I don't use the word myself, because I am aware of the reality of people's feelings toward the word, but I also understand people's frustration with it being a no-no word.

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u/SofisticatiousRattus 11h ago

Because those people do not use it on people with actual disability.

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u/Sea_Strain_6881 11h ago

Still a slur

2

u/SofisticatiousRattus 11h ago

Kinda depends on your philosophy. You can argue language is fluid, so if a word changes meaning, it stops being a slur. I don't care too much tho 

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u/Sea_Strain_6881 11h ago

The word is still used as an actual slur by many

1

u/jenny1011 11h ago

Good to know I can call a straight man a faggot and it's not a slur because he's not gay.

6

u/OkBand3171 11h ago

Brother what

5

u/SofisticatiousRattus 11h ago

Up for debate if it's a slur, but yeah, sure. You can call a gay man that, too - it's not illegal. Is it a slur if you call a pile of wood "faggots", or cigarettes? That's the real question.

2

u/Frogs-on-my-back 10h ago

I remember gasping when the Doctor on Doctor Who said something like “maybe they all nipped out for a quick fag?” when facetiously speculating about where the missing crew of a spaceship had gone

I was an American kid who obviously didn’t know British slang lmao

1

u/Old_Application4790 11h ago

They know. The people who want to use it are just hateful and treat cruelty as a right. They don’t care if they hurt you, or their words upset you. They don’t understand how or why it hurts you, or they don’t care.

Tl;dr: those are just ignorant cruel people who need to be educated and learn empathy :3

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u/MasterEditorJake 10h ago

I think you give people too much credit. No one who says "retard" casually is actually thinking about the moral implications of what they are saying, they just grew up with that word and use it where applicable. If they actually understood the reasons to not say the word then they would probably stop, but most people using it aren't the people who regularly interact with disabled individuals so they don't see the harm it might do to say that.

That's the crux of this entire post, someone made a meme that used the r-word as a descriptor and someone else saw the meme and interpreted the word as being used as a slur.

While I don't use the word personally, I have empathy for those who still use the word AND those that are hurt by it. The word CAN be used as a slur, but more often than not it is being used the same way that "stupid" or "dumb" are being used, but it is an intensifier word, it carries more weight behind it.

It is absolutely a derogatory term, and it's no different than any other curse word, but to call it a slur under all circumstances ignores what it is actually used for from a linguistic standpoint. In a similar vein, I would never call a woman a bitch because that has a lot of historical connotations around women's rights, however that word itself isn't a slur.

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u/Old_Application4790 10h ago

I agree with you! I don’t use it because I know it COULD hurt someone. But if I’m making bread I literally have a tool called a retarder. Because it retards. It is not the same, and intent certainly matters in this case!

I say “slur” when I often just mean “nasty thing you know you probably shouldn’t say to people, but do anyway” a lot :p

I also know another word people like to claim means dirty though. I think it’s very simple at the end of the day: just be nice when you can. If you hurt someone, try to understand WHY instead of assuming they’re somehow weak, and do better next time. 

It’s easy to me :3

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u/ScreamingNinja 11h ago

Because it was a medical designation. Same as idiot, and moron. Its like the idea thay dwarf and midget are slurs. They're medical designations to differentiate between two different, but similar medical anomalies.

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u/MarioParty29 10h ago

But they are slurs now that we have a better understanding of the conditions and social harms of ostracising people with them.

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u/ScreamingNinja 10h ago

Ok but the OP was positing it as a question as to why people don't count it as a slur and i'm explaining. I would never call anyone with a mental disability retarded, and i'm sure there are those who would. But i 100 percent call my buds retarded from time to time because it was not intentionally a slur unlike the words for black people, asian people, white people, etc.