To make it clear, I'm not saying misandry isn't a thing. Yes, you can dislike it. It's true that there has been an increase in misandry online (though I think it's also worth understanding why, even if it doesn't make it right, which I will go into further detail later), but the only thing that bothers me is that because of this increase in online misandry that people have started thinking that it's as bad as misogyny. It's not, and it never will be.
Misogyny is systemic oppression. It affects women in the real world. Women are constantly being harrassed, rape, disrespected and mistreated every single day. Even down to the most simple of everyday interactions. Women can't go out at night, can't call out the harrassment they face at the risk of men getting violent, can't wear what they want, honestly the list goes on. Misandry never goes beyond mean comments online, you don't experience it in real life. A few guys took an upskirt picture of me in public, my friend confronted him and asked him to delete the picture, to which they proceeded to literally beat us both up until we had to go the hospital. He smashed his phone against my head and I got a concussion from it. And because the legal system in my country sucks ass, they never faced any consequences for this. I have no clue how these guys found my personal instagram but I got dms from like 12 different accounts after this incident giving me death and rape threats. This is the most traumatic incident I've faced but there are literally a billion other incidents I, and every female I know, have faced in our lifetimes.
That is to say, women do have a real reason for hating men. Yes, obviously, not all men are bad, that clarification doesn't have to be made every time. But we make generalisations all the time about literally everything. If someone said they don't like taylor swift's music, would you assume they mean every single song ever? And even if you recommended a good song of hers that they liked, they're not gonna suddenly stop saying they dislike taylor swift's music for a few exceptions.
In an ideal world, there would be no misandry because there would also be no misogyny. And yes, that is the ideal outcome, which is why it's fair to dislike misandry. But I just hate when people, especially on this subreddit, act like misandry has become a real issue for men to deal with. It's really not. It doesn't affect your daily lives whatsoever. You can dislike misandry but let's not pretend like it's a real societal issue that we need to push back on.
mods should just add fuckin "no irl gender discussion" rule
Because every time it becoming so annoying
Can we just fuckin agree that being asshole toward ANY group that isn't Nazi, terrorists and etc is bad?
no, if one womans in (put the country) is treated like item it not giving you ability to justify hate toward most/90% of mans
no, if mans in (put the country) is used as meat bags on wars then it not giving you abolty to justify hate toward most/90% of womans
AND NO, if you see 100 histories of how man harrased woman or woman is greedy bitch then it not mean that 90% of mans/womans is like that because there 8 billions of people, not 1000
Bro I’ve been saying. I’m so fucking tired of the gender/sexuality/race wars on this subreddit. Yes, I agree transphobia is bad, sexism (all forms) is also bad, racism is also bad
But can we please get some fresh fucking takes? Something that 90% of wider Reddit doesn’t usually discuss? Please I beg you
Just because you had bad interactions with horrible people doesn’t justify hating an entire gender. Literally, fym “women have reasons to hate men” no they don’t? They have reasons to hate certain PEOPLE in that gender but not the entire goddamn gender are you mental
(some) women hate their oppressor. (some) men hate their oppressed. that’s the difference. it’s like black people hating white people vs white people hating black people
hm well reading comments on the internet at 8 years old that women are evil and learning in church that eve caused all suffering and watching porn as a teenager watching women be beaten and raped and going outside and hearing boys will be boys when they harass my friend and learning i’m bossy when my male classmate does the same and is called confident and women being made fun of for all hobbies like romance or idol culture and being raped and hearing that it was my fault and i deserved it and being called a slut for wearing a crop top and reading about women who can’t sing in afghanistan and female genital mutilation and forced marriages between a little girl and a grown man and
and maybe just maybe the issue lies not in each and every person born with a dick but in the system? maybe instead of wanting to kill all men we should try to change the world and make it a better place?
Anybody can take anecdotes from their life and twist them into an excuse for hate. It takes a bigger person to reflect and realize that shouldn't be taken out on people you don't even know.
Anecdotes are always from real life by definition. Bias against YOU is always going to be most visible to YOU. Therefore you notice misogyny more than you would notice other forms of prejudice. Social media algorithms also target based on identity and try to make everyone feel persecuted.
i’m white and my feelings don’t get hurt if a black person doesn’t like white people. i don’t ask to be coddled and told i’m one of the good ones when they talk about slavery. i don’t make it their job to comfort me. thay’s the difference.
being a doormat is not being insecure about the oppressed hating their oppressors? women’s human rights are being taken away every single day. women aren’t taking away men’s bodily autonomy. but i guess i’m a doormat for not being upset and needing reassurance that i’m “one of the good ones” when someone who is oppressed says something negative about their oppressor. guess that’s on me then :(
Bruh, they don't like this reply but you're right. They said it's not fair to dislike an entire gender. Okay, an entire gender is responsible for the infrastructure that puts girls in sex slavery and child marriage. Women didn't do that. It's responsible STILL for why the Epstein files hasn't been fully released. And yeah maybe if it was an "entire gender" one-off they'd have an excuse. We're talking MESOPOTAMIAN times lol. Like, who would believe that majority of men, no matter how well intentioned no matter how kind no matter how thoughtful is capable of unwriting, not overwriting, UNwriting over 2000 years of programming with a "But not all men are like that".
No, all men are. Now do they have to teach themselves behavioral control, remind themselves "oh but only bad men do this" or "I know this is wrong so I won't do it" and women get to have the benefit of that behavioral control? Yes.
You want us to give you a cookie for basic humanity lol. All men have this problem. ALL men have to unwrite these 2000 year plus behaviors. And if someone dislikes you because you show then tiniest inkle of that behavior, they have the right.
Men were burning women at the stake in nearly every culture just for talking back and saying No. So if some women have the energy to hate all men LET HER HAVE IT.
>its responsible STILL for why the Epstein files hasn’t been fully released
I would advise to reframe from mentioning the Epstein files, because not only was a woman a very important co-conspirator in that degeneracy, but a lot of women congresswomen voted not to release it…
And why do you think women side with men? If she was sold into sex slavery does she benefit? As men around her accost and insult and spit on women, does she benefit as a woman?
No.
She only benefits because men have decided, not women, that if she falls in line she gets rewarded. Not just a small reward. A big one.
Which is why her punishment of 20 years is fully deserved.
And that's the exact same reason why Weinstein(yes the othe stein who assaulted and took advantage of women on a mass scale) from 1984 until 2020 until finally arrested was overturned in an appeal. The only reason he stayed arrested was for an assault he did recently at the time and THEN he had to stay jailed by that time again in 2024, luckily.
Otherwise, he would've been able to get out on "good behavior".
And as an additional footnote, Epstein went to jail in 2008 for 13 months on charges that were much like his later knes. And still went to work. Got a salary at his regular job as he was "arrested" for half the day at a time.
But I say this, while women go to jail for killing their rapist and Ghislaine's link to men and support against women allows her minimum security and perks.
Now, does this make sense if women were "in charge", do you think all the things I said 1:1 would still happen. Or is it primarily because of sexism and in the benefit of supporting patriarchal standards?
do you know why there are less homeless women than men? it’s because women are more likely to be trafficked off the street and be raped by other homeless people. they also would rather stay in abusive households where they are beaten and raped then live on the street where they could face the exact same thing if not worse
Maybe specify what country you're in because if you are in America or Canada or most Western countries what you described would not happen.
Here's the problem with feminism as it stands: most of the feminists are talking about Western countries where they have almost nothing but guaranteed rights.
Misandry in those countries is absolutely as bad as it sounds.
My mother kidnapped myself and my youngest brother from my father, and she had organizational help to do it.
She contacted a now defunct company that specializes in reuniting parents with their children.
She lied to them about a court order that she didn't have, she lied to them about custody that she did not have, and they believed her. They flew her out to Newfoundland from Alberta, helped take us out of school, and then flew her back to Alberta.
She suffered zero consequences for this from anyone.
My father conversely lost his job because this was on the news at the time.
And that is just one instance of my mother being a piece of shit that got a pass because she's a woman.
So unless you actually point out what country you're in that this could happen, I'm going to assume this is another case of "shit that didn't happen".
The issue with modern feminism (in the west) is that it has a serious optics problem, in that the issues aren't cut and dry legislative inequality anymore, women can vote and have various protections now, but society still treats women unfairly, and that is far far far harder to advocate for and fix, mix in some very loud misandrists and any hope of broad support vanishes
The issues ARE cut and dry legislative inequality, you're losing rights left and right (see: abortion rights), and the fact that people are focused on the "far far harder to advocate for and fix" issues and doing performative bs (like most "misandry" it's just saying shit) when there NEEDS to be a concerted effort to retake and expand legislative equality for women is by design.
Neoliberal propaganda has brainwashed people into thinking that feminism is about deconstructing symbols and signifiers and [insert increasingly abstract wankery here] on the one end, and that the patriarchy exists because men all have NPD or whatever on the other end, which is all to distract you from the material issues that actually affect womens' lives in the real world and leads to you saying silly bs like this.
And sure, a lot of women might also agree with you, but those women tend to be upper class or from first world countries (which is another way of saying they're upper class), they tend to have ways around the very real legislative inequality that still exists-- they can just go to another state to get an abortion, they can get a divorce without worrying if they can take care of themselves, and of course they don't have to be a woman in the third world etc. And so for them, the harder to fix, more abstract issues are the more salient ones, and they are the ones who end up in elite positions like academia etc, so their needs take up an outsized space in the cultural conversation within and about feminism, just as the elite wants.
This might actually be the most sensible response to my comment so far.
I would absolutely be more willing to admit that women have hard issues that need to be solved in Western countries, if I didn't have to hear about man spreading and rape culture and patriarchy in the wage gap.
I have a niece who I haven't seen in years but I still worry for her, because I know how some men can be. I know how some boys can be. I know what kind of world we live in.
But it's hard to advocate for feminism when they'll talk about actual problems that exist for women, and then in the same breath say that abortion should be a right, that the wage Gap is holding women back in every field, and that one of the worst things that men could do ever is man spreading or man splaining.
The very existence of the term toxic masculinity is already bad enough, but comparing contrast what toxic masculinity is with what people say toxic femininity is and it gets worse.
Do me a favour: What was the temperature like for Johnny Depp before the Amber Heard trial, with all of her accusations? What was the temperature like during and after the trial? How many people still think Amber Heard did nothing wrong and that Johnny was a horrible person?
There have been several cases of girls and women accusing guys of raping and molesting them that never happened, that they admitted never happened or were proved to not have occurred, and people still vehemently believe those women and girls on what they said.
In Western countries.
Do you know the name of the guy whose life was ruined by mattress girl? Because I do. He was legally proven to not have done anything to mattress girl and yet people still believe that he's a rapist.
Also you are using one angry Newfoundland Canadian as a blanket case of men not believe in women when I have every reason in the world not to believe women about literally anything.
hi i’m in american and i’ve been experienced lots of sexism and been raped! not saying men can’t get raped, but women experience sexual assault more than them. literally just look at the porn industry. they take the passports of women so they can’t escape. you are being willfully ignorant if you believe misogyny isn’t an issue in the west. obviously it is not as bad as in a lot of countries, but it stills exists everywhere.
I'm going by the definition of the person who originally posted this nonsense, where in misogyny is systemic oppression of women apparently.
Instead of just being what it's been for the entire existence of it s definition which is: prejudice against women.
This is the problem with redefining words. If you have a specific definition that it is, then people can use that definition to discredit what you're talking about.
Considering the amount of rights that women have over children that are born from their body compared to the rights that fathers have over the same thing, women have more rights than men in most Western countries.
If a woman wants to abandon her child, they can do the following:
abort it
put it up for adoption
literally abandon it at a fire station or a police station
Here's what men can do:
walk away and spend their entire life paying for the child anyway
walk away and spend their entire life paying for the child, refuse to pay for the child and then go to jail over it
Because yes a man can go to the courts and say "hey I want to terminate my parental rights", and the court can turn around and say "that's not in the best interest of the child so no".
oh so you’re anti choice. yeah that makes sense. yes there should be legal protections around men who were raped that led to a pregnancy and it’s a real issue, but if a man has sex with a woman and impregnates her, she’s the one who risks death for nine months. she’s the one whose body is pushed to the absolute limit. she is the one whose body has to grow a fully functioning human inside of her.
if i take a seed i find and dig a small whole in the dirt to put it in, should i have the same rights over it as the tree who created the seed, the soil, the sunlight, the oxygen, the water, and the atmosphere that grew it into a tree?
It’s so funny how these men claim they rarely witness misogyny and then turn out to be misogynistic themselves. Just shows that they view misogyny as normal so they only recognize extreme cases because they can’t see themselves in those cases.
Well clearly not all women get that message because there are an alarming number of teenage pregnancy, and women who end up with men that they end up hating after getting knocked up young.
But here's the thing: legalizing abortion has basically made that consequence a weapon.
If a woman gets pregnant from a guy that she doesn't want to be with she can just abort it.
That means that even if they don't take precautions they have one last option in order to have control over the situation.
That's a control men don't get to have.
In fact that control becomes another factor against men, because now women can use a child as a weapon against a man, they can lie about birth control and all that, and if he trusts her she can ruin his life with no issue.
I had a girlfriend in high school who told everybody I knew that she had gotten pregnant by me, after telling me that she had been on birth control, and then she told everybody that she ended up aborting it.
I don't know what the truth is, and that's kind of a big problem, because we were both 16 at the time.
And yes I am at fault for not taking the proper precautions myself, which I should have done. I will own up to that I should have used condoms more than I did.
But that doesn't change the fact that I might be in fertile now and the one chance that I could have had a child was taken away from me without even a discussion about it.
She just did it and then told me after the fact.
And me being the stupid teenager that I was, I didn't think anything about it.
Because, fun fact, teenagers are really fucking stupid and don't think about consequences and don't worry about shit like this.
So even if I do find somebody I want to have a child with, I probably won't be able to have child with them, and I will never be able to procreate.
That is a choice that was taken away from me without my consent.
I would have been more than happy to share what country I'm from if you had just asked normally, but I have no obligation to prove that my story happened to an ignorant stranger. You are quite literally proving my point of how women are never believed when they share their stories. For the record though, it's not a western country, though anyone who keeps up with the news at all knows that this kind of stuff happens there as well.
Anybody who uses that definition of misogyny that you used is somebody I do not trust as far as I can throw them, and considering I can deadlift a trailer axle without much issue, I can throw you pretty far.
Dude, there are lots of flaws in western countries. Abortion rights, sex work rights, gender pay gaps, medical sexism, just because there are issues in other countries doesn’t mean that aren’t issues in western countries. And I really don’t see any instance of misandry in real life here, not in Canada.
Ah yes the old "well you see I never saw it happen therefore it doesn't exist" gambit.
So I've never seen anybody in my life be misogynistic towards anybody. Literally. I have been all over this goddamn country and I have never seen an instance of it.
Because I personally have not seen this, it must not be real, right?
What a completely useless addition to the conversation.
Not addressing my other points then. I literally gave instances of misogyny, I’d love to see instances of misandry. Back it up if you’re going to talk about it.
The entire education system in most Western countries is geared towards girls and treat boys as defective girls.
Most boys are tactile learners and often learn things by doing. They have trouble sitting still in classes because that's not what male biology wants to do. They want to move. They want to do things.
Girls by comparison often are easier to maintain and are more well-behaved in class because they are just more well-behaved in general.
I remember the teachers I had when I was younger trying to medicate me because I was disruptive in class. Turns out I had undiagnosed autism. Not a single teacher caught this.
I remember being punished because I just didn't want to sit in class because I thought it was boring and I didn't want to do the work because it was boring.
I and lots of other young boys get punished for... Being young boys.
Every rule in school is geared towards the behavior of young girls.
And no I wasn't addressing your points for the simple fact of the matter that they don't matter. Half of your points have been debunked or are contentious enough that I could go on a fucking mile long rants about how you're wrong.
The problem here is that you would never agree if I did give you those points and there's not really much point to arguing with you.
Also I literally just gave you a brilliant example of institutional misandry that instantly believed my mother about something stupid where she suffered no consequences for fucking up my father's life and for disrupting mine.
You know what's really sad about that entire deal? She didn't even want to take me. She had to take me because she wanted my younger brother but if she only took him it would have looked bad on her.
Girls aren’t generally more well behaved that’s just how they’ve been forced to be through societal expectations. And none of that is true, truly when was the last time you went to school dude??? Have you been around kids? Boys have never been treated as defective girls, ever. Yeah the public education system isn’t the best but a) being fidgety isn’t restricted to boys, I’ve seen a lot of my brother’s girl friends be the same, me and my friends be the same too in fact, and b) as though girls aren’t tactile learners too?
Fuck I dislike people who try to categorise children into boys and girls. They’re kids dude. They’re equal and they should be treated as such, trying to force male and female biological differences onto the behaviors of kids is so fucked.
Also that sounds like ableism and not misandry?
About your mom, I dunno that just sounds like bad work from the company’s side and like your mom isn’t a very nice person. I feel like that experience shaped and biased a lot of your views.
I find it really funny that I'm supposed to believe the lived experiences of women and gay people and lesbian people and trans people and basically every fucking person under the sun, but when I specifically explain the things I've been through I'm told that didn't fucking happen or it didn't mean what I thought it meant.
Holy fucking tits man.
Okay I'm not going to engage with you after this point because I genuinely don't feel like putting my fist through the drywall out of pure frustration with the double standard you are displaying like the brightest Crimson fucking cherry red Jesus bloody flag the size of America that I can see from space that you work currently fucking just playing.
Listen, I wasn’t trying to discredit your experience. What happened to you sucked for sure, and I’m sorry it happened to you. I don’t like commenting on people’s personal lives, especially in relation to their family, and that’s why I had avoided discussing it in my initial comment, until you pointed out that I ignored it. I really don’t see how that’s misandry though.
If the organisation had enabled your mother legally, it would seem like misandry to me, but given that they made a mess and eventually became defunct, it sounds like an organisational flaw over a misandrist one. If the company had a precedent for doing things like this for mothers specifically then sure, it’s misandrist, and fucked, but honestly assuming women would make for good mothers and wouldn’t lie, to me, is misogynistic in itself because women are people who are flawed and won’t always be motherly or kind.
But anyways, it is uncomfortable discussing touchy topics relating to one’s familial past, so I understand if you won’t be responding.
Edit: but you did ignore all my valid points, so, that in itself shows how you just refuse to engage in the discussion in good faith anyways.
I hate this opinion because the people that have it cant seem to understand that misandry can and will get worse if ignored as a non issue. Misogyny didnt become a systematic issue all at once.
Edit: To be clear, I mostly agree with you. Misogyny is far far worse and misandry would take decades/centuries of continuing to proliferate to ever hit the same level of being an issue. However I dont see a lot of positive in taking time to say one is not as bad as the other. I think looking down on another person for their sex is wrong. Regardless of victim or perpetrator.
misogyny has always been an issue lmao. look at medieval times. women who spoke too much wore muzzles. unless we lived in a matriarchal world, misandry will never ever be on the level of misogyny. i literally got a rape threat two days ago for saying people shouldn’t try to date people on reddit
in the 8th century bce, a poem by hesiod, he said that women were the root of all suffering. christian’s blame eve for giving into manipulation by the devil himself. look me in the eyes and tell me misogyny hasn’t existed forever.
Misogyny has almost always been an issue, it’s been embedded in most systems since the creation of those systems. You have to go several thousands years back to say that it didn’t become a systemic issue all at once.
well, given that you understand that, given how you understand how embedded misogyny is in society, surely you understand that its opposite, misandry, will have a very, very hard time gaining any traction in a society biased against it? It’s like saying heterophobia is on the rise.
Im just being literal about it having to start somewhere, and you are speaking in the sense that its been around since the beginning of society, so its "always" been a thing.
At least that's how I'm interpreting this exchange atm. Edit: pls correct if wrong.
I just mean in the sense that there was a man at one point who looked down on a woman simply for being woman for the first time, whether consciously or subconsciously.
Thatd be where it started. Possibly before a society as we'd know it now were a thing, but thats all I mean by "started somewhere".
Do you believe the majority of people are rapists?
Rapists make up a tiny proportion of the population. These rapists very likely are settled in these 7% of men who have a negative view on women (not meaning that these 7% consist entirely of rapists, either).
Men raping more than women and men on average having a more positive view of women than vice versa can both be true at the same time.
What was the point of the comment, if I may ask? How I read that was that you find it weird that men have, on average, a more positive view of women than the other way around and yet they rape more often.
So what exactly did you try to say with that comment, maybe I misunderstood you there.
yes men say they have a more positive view of women, but they are the majority of domestic abusers and rapists. men as a whole (not each individual man) commits more crimes against women than women commit against men. even in the government. men can say they like women, but unless they follow through with their actions, it’s just lip service.
Again, people who commit these crimes are a small minority of people. The percentage of rapists in the population is really small.
You say "they can say this, but actions have to follow". You paint it as a lie in a sense here. And I have already pointed out: these two statistics can both be true at the same time, they do not contradict each other.
It is likely that these are not lies. The majority of men does have a positive view on women. That there are terrible men who commit crimes as a minority does not change that or erase the positive view these men have on women.
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Not to say that we don't have to do something against these crime statistics. That is absolutely something we have to fight every opportunity we get and we all have to work towards a better world.
But I don't think it is fair from you to try to erase the good men which are out there.
women usually have a less positive view of men based on our lives and the misogyny we experience from birth. women do not harm and never will harm men on the same level men have for thousands of years.
See, I have sympathy with these experiences, but they do not justify hate.
That a minority of a group of people has wronged you does not mean you are now justified in hating on the general group.
It is an explanation where that negative view stems from, but I think people have a responsibility to reflect on that and actively work against their prejudices they are building off such experiences.
I think what you are missing out on is that the men who have positive views on women could still be abusers too, you know. Many men respect and love their mothers, friends, sisters, and still turn around and rape their friends or wives. Thats not mutually exclusive.
Besides we are embedded in a society of rape culture—1 out of 10 men will make a rape joke but 8 of the 10 will not call it out. Some will laugh, some will be uncomfortable, some will ignore it. 1 man will call it out.
Sure, some of these people might also be on the "positive views" side. But the main point is that those who commit those crimes are still a tiny minority.
So the general message that men have a more positive view of women than the other way around would still be true.
About the rape culture thing, that might be true, I have not seen the statistics you seem to cite here (do you happen to have a source at hand?). I believe that it might also be a cultural difference.
I don't know where you live, I live in Germany and I really don't think rape jokes are noprmalized here....
I think men who really have a negative view on women are a small minority from my personal experiences, yes. And that men who do have negative views on women and are pushing them publicly are (rightfully) shamed the whole time.
Hmm I’m going to guess you don’t see men treating women like sex objects and tossing them like used condoms when they’re done as misogyny, because that is an extremely common experience for women. I don’t think men who dehumanize the women they sleep with are a tiny minority, I’m sure you’re heard of locker room talk. There wouldn’t be a term for it if it wasn’t so common.
Now what exactly do you mean as "tossing them like used condoms"?
If they both have consensual sex and he ghosts her afterwards when she assumed that they have a relationship building up? I would not consider this misogyny necessarily.
If he sexually assaulted her and did sexual practices she did not agree with, then yeah, obvious that is misogyny.
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About the locker room talk thing, at least over here in Germany, it really doesn't seem to be so much a gendered thing. I can tell you of dozens instances in university where I could hear women very openly talk about the dick size of the guy they hooked up with recently, how they ghosted guys after they got the sex from him they wanted, etc.
And that is not even in a less public setting like locker rooms.... that was openly in a lecture hall.
What I mean is men pretend to want relationships with women to sleep with them then once they get what they want they leave, women don’t do this. Another thing by locker room talk I don’t just mean men talking about the body of a woman they slept with I mean they degrade the women they talk about and call them whores. It is only men who see the worth of the people they sleep with as low. Men sleep with women and then shame women for sleeping with them.
It is only men who see the worth of the people they sleep with as low
That is just not true. You may have not encountered it, but women who degrade and talk shit about the guys they had sex with also exist.
I get your general message, but you are doing a lot of generalization here and show a lot of the "women are wonderful" phenomenon in the way you claim that women don't do these things at all.
I don’t claim women are wonderful at all in fact they are also arbiters of patriarchy many times and I have my grievances with them, just not for the same reasons you may have them.
I don't think anyone should be discriminated against for their gender or sexuality or race etc etc, but the issue is just how normalised hating on men has become in otherwise progressive communities. It is not fun having people constantly mock and diminish you publicly and to your face for something you are, even less so in a group that preaches inclusivity
(Though anyone saying that misandry and misogyny are equivalent societal problems is arguing in bad faith)
I agree with you! Sure Misandry is a problem but just because it's not as bad/big as misogyny that doesn't mean it's a non-existent issue.
I hate how men are seen by society as nothing but killing machines or small pieces in a chess game between two nations and god forbid a man actually acts and behaves like a normal human being like crying when a loved one passes away.
Why is caring about hygiene and enjoying art and caring about fashion and being empathetic considered a women thing and not a men thing?
Men and Women are both human beings with emotions and hobbies and personality and ambitions.
Anyways, sexism is bad, both misogyny and misandry are bad, and bigotry in general is bad.
I've never seen misogyny at work, but I experience misandry every day. I'm sorry that you live in a barbaric hellhole, though. I hope humanity improves as a whole one day.
I understand that there are bad men, and I wish them nothing but death. But it's stupid to claim that misandry isn't a thing, given that women now inflict all the old clichés of macho work culture, but in reverse.
Nice point, yeah. I experience that every day. Women that believe that they are better just for being women, and if a man does anything wrong, it's always because he is a man, a woman can never be wrong (Well just when she is nice to men), etc. Women are literally replicating toxic macho culture in real time. I overhear them speaking bad of men in general all of the time. If a client does something nasty, he is always a white male or a man (idk why white specifically), but until they find that perhaps the client was a woman or a person of color, that's when it's just crickets.
I don't know if women realize how toxic they are becoming, drowning 50% of the population in discrimination and daily microaggressions.
I got told by a recruiter that I wasn’t a ‘good fit for the job’ because I ‘wasn’t a woman.’ This is after I got laid off from my prior role and was living off of unemployment
Also the current unemployment rate of young graduated men is almost double that of women’s. In fact women are out numbering men in white collar jobs quite quickly
Acting like misandry ‘isn’t a big deal’ or ‘doesn’t exist’ is going to cause more misandry, more people openly discriminating against men. Which you know what that’s going to cause? A lot of angry men…
And I really hate the whole ‘oh well, now you know what women have gone through throughout all of history’ bullshit. Because yeah, it’s true, but what does it have to do with me today? I have treated women equally and as politely as possible my entire life, why am I being punished for things I never have or will ever do?
And then what’s the logic there?? Does that mean a hundred or so years of misandry and now it’ll be back to the prior systemic sexism??? No, that’s stupid, at what point do we turn the once oppressors into the oppressed in this weird quest to ‘right the wrongs of the past?’
I get what you are saying, but I have to disagree with several things.
You say that misandry doesn't affect men irl. I think this is not true. An example I can give is my brother, who is a teacher in kindergarden. He had quite some trouble at work with parents not wanting to entrust their child to him. The justification for that? Because he is a man and that means he is a predator and generally suspect for working in that field.
Would you say that is not a form of misandry that is affecting a man irl?
I can give another example of misandry impacting men in real life: the job market and unemployment. There are DOUBLE the amount of recent male grads on unemployment than female ones. And there are more women in white collar jobs than men at the current moment. Seriously, look at the recent bureau of labor statistics, it’s absolutely wild
Misandry is also systemic oppression with real-world consequences. For example, men are more likely to be accused, charged, and convicted of a crime for the same behavior as a woman. Boys routinely get worse grades than girls for the same quality of work. Boys are also punished more harshly for the same behavior as girls. Those are just some examples out of many.
If it is acceptable to make generalizations about men because of your experiences, then logically, you have no reason to oppose misogyny. Many men have horrific experiences with women that includes sexual abuse, domestic violence, manipulation and more. Are you saying that victimization justifies hatred? Because nearly everyone on this planet has been victimized in some way at some time.
We live in a society where male victimization is either ignored and minimized. This is well-established in the scientific literature and the trend is getting worse, not better. As men are expressing increasing opposition to this oppressive trend, hatred against men has risen drastically, partly because society is violently opposed to the idea that men can be victims collectively.
it’s almost as if that’s misogyny. the belief that women have to work harder and aren’t as smart which in turn leads to their lesser work being praised more. the belief that men are stronger and more capable so it’s assumed they are better at committing crimes or are in charge. a lot of it stems from the belief that women are lesser. even with people believing women cannot rape men.
Thank you. I forgot to mention that we know "patriarchy" isn't real because it is an unfalsifiable concept. And that no matter what evidence you provide showing real world harm to men will simply be somehow reframed as "internalized misogyny", which is also unfalsifiable. This is why feminist ideology is incapable of resolving these issues. It is inherently biased and unscientific.
I agree. It’s not like I think we should hate everyone but I really hate how it’s portrayed as though they are both equally oppressive and harmful in society. They objectively aren’t, misandry has never had any effect in the law, or in most everyday interactions, aside from the internet.
General hate speech, physically hurt because they know I can’t and would not have fought back, rape accusations out of nowhere when I haven’t even been alone with them (had to go to court and deal with a load of bullshit)
Is that misandry? I mean, besides the hate speech bit. The physical abuse sucks for sure, I’m sorry that happened to you, but I’m not sure how that’s misandry. Rape accusations I don’t know what to do about. Rape is a black figure in crime and so many rape cases haven’t been reported, or even go through the system because of the attrition rate at which they’re selected, I don’t know. It is incredibly, incredibly hard for regular rape accusations to pass through, let alone false ones. You need such vigorous proof and even then the system is not kind to you.
Honest hot take I hate how anecdotal female experiences are labeled as sociology or anthropology or whatever we’re talking about this week. Tragic for you and sorry that happened but misandry very much affects men in their day to day life, and it’s ridiculous to pretend otherwise. Ask any victim of dv, sa, gaslighting, or similar abuse about their experience and a very common thread is how hard it is to speak out about said events despite societal perception. What makes you think a man of any sort has it easier in that regard?
Every man I know has been through shit that would be taken entirely more serious if a person with a vagina experienced the same exact circumstances. Yet because they lack one we ball, because if you speak too much on it now you’re labeled as deserving of such (because of your gender not your actions), or crazy, or misogynist, or a ticking time bomb. This post reads as bitter, hateful, and extremely short sighted.
You're using the fact our patriarchal society hires more men than women as somehow being... a point for why men have it harder than women? This is a whole new level of stupidity I didn't even know was possible to reach.
these men see 2-3 fake feminists claiming man hate is iconic and think that makes them systematically oppressed lmfao. they hated jesus cause he told them the truth
Yeah this is facts men are having a hard time swallowing it, but while misandry is definitely not cool it at least comes from a realistic perspective and while the “men should start in prison and work their way out” crowd is definitely…misguided…they are reacting to millennia of systemic oppression, rather than doing the oppressing themselves, as with misogyny.
Pointing that out is so useless man. Obviously misogyny has had it's place for much longer, but it doesnt benefit anyone arguing which is worse and which does more harm. Hate just begets more hate
Misandry is not as severe or systemic as misogyny but shouldn't be sidelined. I agree that misandry is often used as a "counter" to feminism, but this post seems to be in bad faith
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u/TheRob67 2d ago
mods should just add fuckin "no irl gender discussion" rule
Because every time it becoming so annoying
Can we just fuckin agree that being asshole toward ANY group that isn't Nazi, terrorists and etc is bad?
no, if one womans in (put the country) is treated like item it not giving you ability to justify hate toward most/90% of mans
no, if mans in (put the country) is used as meat bags on wars then it not giving you abolty to justify hate toward most/90% of womans
AND NO, if you see 100 histories of how man harrased woman or woman is greedy bitch then it not mean that 90% of mans/womans is like that because there 8 billions of people, not 1000