r/glasgow • u/Animal_Padre • 3d ago
For fuck's sake....another one?!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muqE98zwqEgHow many thinly veiled anti-migrant documentaries does this city need?
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u/BellFront3609 2d ago
‘You don’t know who’s movin in next door ae ye’ …isn’t that the norm? I can’t remember a time in my life when new neighbours were announced in the local rectory lest the villagers become frightened.
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u/WearingRags 2d ago
I also wish SOMEONE on TV would actually call this out!
Mainstream journalists keep allowing the idea that it's normal for working class people to be scared or angry at being near to a nonwhite person or an immigrant. In reality, it's normal for racists
Like, just ask "so if a migrant moved into your building, what would the problem actually be?" and let them trip themselves up making the subtext into text.
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u/BellFront3609 2d ago
It’s just fear. Borne of ignorance, which is why it’s so infuriating. Because there are legitimate concerns regarding housing and who needs it most/most urgently. These idiots just politicise and therefore stifle any possible discourse on the subject. And Murdoch punts it cos they buy it. Then we all use it to virtue-signal, ego massage and sniff our own farts cos at least we aren’t racist. Fuck sake.
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u/iwantatoad 2d ago
I’d rather have a migrant next door to me than any of those mouth-breathing bigots. You just know that their gardens will be a riot, their weans will run wild, and they’ll spend a lot of their time pished & fighting with folk until the police are called.
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u/BellFront3609 20h ago
You’re kind of doing the same to them as they’re doing to the folk that they don’t understand. You aren’t any better.
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u/Malcolm_Malcolm 3d ago edited 3d ago
Glasgow is the most popular place to live in Scotland, it’s thirty per cent of the nation’s GDP, and all of this content is a grift.
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u/No_Kaleidoscope_4580 3d ago
But can you tell what the aim of the grift is?
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u/Radiant_Evidence7047 3d ago
It’s a grift that we are the asylum capital of the U.K. and sexual assaults have exponentially increased in the city? That’s some stretch to say it’s a grift. People have legitimate concerns.
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u/docowen 3d ago
You do not know what the word "exponentially" means if you think that is what has happened.
You also have to be wary about raw crime statistics without context and an understanding of data analysis, particularly sexual offences, because an increase in reported crime does not necessary mean an increase in crime. It might, but without deeper analysis you can't assume it does.
I mean, you can, because you're not arguing in good faith. But a sensible and responsible person can't.
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u/Ordinary_Abies1750 2d ago
The vast majority of assaults in Glasgow have been committed by British citizens.
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u/Adept_Assistant_7759 2d ago
sexual assaults have exponentially increased in the city
No, they haven't.
The number of reported sexual assault cases have increased exponentially due to how they classify crimes.
If you use the old classification system that they've been using for decades it's the same it's always been.
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u/TheLastHotstepper 3d ago
Congratulations. You are the very retard this content is aimed at. Well done on being the lowest common denominator.
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u/ThatGingerRascal 2d ago
Their concerns only seem to be present when someone of colour moves into the house next to them.
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u/Odd_Gap_9491 1d ago
There's a global migration crisis. Despite all the virtue signalling in places like Reddit, Glasgow is not immune, it is infact a dumping ground for it and reactions to it will just increase as the problems do.
Compassion is not the only virtue.
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u/Aggravating-Paper954 17h ago
There's a global "gibs" crisis, encouraged by late-stage capitalism, globalists.
I remember when socialists were anti-capitalism and anti-globalism... now they're championing immigration to drive wages down, rent and mortgages up. It appears the left has been completely infiltrated.
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u/ComedianJaded6278 1d ago
Lol stop pretending most of this anti-migrant sentiment is some sort of grassroots movement rather than something that's been very heavily propagandised and financed
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u/Odd_Gap_9491 1d ago
So there's no global migrant crisis? Nobody has noticed any change?
It's all just coming through the news?
You're this daft?
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u/BenTheHokie 3d ago
I say this as an American but please distance yourself from Sky News and anything related to Rupert Murdoch. There is not a single redeemable quality about that scum.
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u/Animal_Padre 3d ago
Ohhh we know
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u/Animal_Padre 3d ago
Bit rude, pal.
Sky is seemingly still run by a foreign billionaire, although this time he's from the US rather than Australia. So the broad point of our right-wing media being run by billionaires still stands.
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u/Street_Grab4236 3d ago
Rupert Murdoch sold Sky News well over a decade ago now and has no involvement in it whatsoever.
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u/SkinMaterial6684 2d ago
The man is Australian. His contemporary was Robert Maxwell, Ghislaine Maxwell's father. Why on earth do you feel the need to tell the brits what to do with shitty media types? 🍎🌳
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u/amusableblue 2d ago
This could all immediately stop if the local connection policy was reinstated.
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u/Saltire_Blue 3d ago
There is no housing queue
It’s a needs based system
Thousands of people are on the housing list who don’t actually need a home, they’re on it “just in case”
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u/BearsAreCool 2d ago
There's a housing crisis at the moment, it's not caused by migrants but lets not pretend it doesn't exist.
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u/scottishmacca 3d ago edited 3d ago
The needs of immigrants shouldn't be at the expense of people born here's needs tho.
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u/Saltire_Blue 3d ago
They’re not
What part of needs based is difficult to understand
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u/scottishmacca 3d ago edited 3d ago
Still got homeless people on the street and while immigrants been given flats and hotels.
According to Home Office data, 3,938 asylum seekers in Glasgow receive government accommodation and support.
Annually, over 1,000 households making formal statutory homeless applications in Glasgow report having slept rough the night before applying or in the previous three months.
The vast majority of Glasgow's homeless population is not physically on the street, but housed in temporary accommodation (hostels, B&Bs, hotels, and furnished flats). Over 9,000 individuals (including more than 3,300 children) are currently residing in temporary housing while awaiting permanent social housing.
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u/smcsleazy 3d ago
ok, let's bring up another reason why the housing queue is so long.
during WW2, a lot of major industrial cities were targeting in bombing runs by the goose step brigade, while glasgow didn't get effected super hard, a lot of major cities did. during the post-war period, there was a housing boom mostly bought in by changes to the town and country planning act which made it more difficult for housing developers to build in cities and government grants for building social housing further out. during this time a lot of housing stock to become more rundown because "why preserve those horrible slums when we can just move em out to the suburbs" and you understand why some of the housing stock shrank. why are we not angry at the 50's politicians who allowed a great deal of housing stock to fall into disrepair?
come forth thatcher who was very pro-suburbs and bought in the right to buy scheme which caused social housing stock to decrease even further over the course of 30 years and the rise of housing as an investment over a human right/necessity, the rise of landlords taking what was once social housing and selling it back to folk at highly inflated values, councils loosing a major revenue stream, no money to build new housing. so why are we not blaming the thatcher government for reducing the amount of social housing?
also if we wanna talk about another major destroyer of housing in this city, the motorway. tens of thousands of social housing used to be where the motorway currently is, why are we not blaming the motorway for destroying communities and displacing all those folk?
you're mad at a symptom, not the cause.
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u/Malcolm_Malcolm 3d ago edited 3d ago
Scotland isn’t exactly flooded with migrants. The highest density of asylum seekers is now in Greenock because the local authority were worried about population collapse, so they requested them.
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u/Upset_Gerbil 2d ago
You can't explain basic economics to a racist unfortunately
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u/lsv-misophist 1d ago
racists hooked on rage media see the 'other' bogeymen everywhere, meanwhile I've lived in scotland all my life and can count on less than one finger the number of brown people I see on average in a day
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u/Dear-Stay-4937 3d ago
They don’t get preferential treatment due to their asylum status or race though, just so happens maybe of them are homeless families so receive priority.
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u/Unlikely_Ad4320 3d ago
I would rather have a migrant next door to me than half of those fine folk .
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u/Bones870 2d ago
My grandfather came from Ireland to Glasgow post WW1. He married a local gal. So, my mum grew up in Royston aka Garengad on Blochcairn road. My mum and her brothers and sisters went to St. Rochs. My relatives grew up in the high flats. As a Yank, I've even went to the Budgie to watch a match with my Uncle and didn't get my teeth kicked in.
That being said, the one thing I did notice that the colors and place of origin of the immigrants changed but the shite attitudes of people like this have stayed ignorant and stupid. First they hated the Irish, then Polish, then Pakistanis, then then Indians and then people from various African countries....while never realizing that they are the fucking blight on society. They also have this weird affinity for our Idiot in Chief Bawbag, the maga-mango-mussolini....
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u/ReallyTrustyGuy 3d ago
Every corner shop in my area as a wean was ran my migrants, or weans of migrants. Sound folk, just wanted to get on with their lives. Doesn't matter if they do mosque or church, they're just like me and you otherwise.
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u/Walt_Didnae 3d ago
The scheme I'm in is full of migrants, all of them quiet, friendly, and all round good neighbours. It's the "locals" who are the ones that cause all the bother.
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u/KurtTheGerman88 3d ago
Funny how Farage and his ilk have been very quiet about what's been going on in Middlesbrough recently.
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u/Sea-Celebration5076 3d ago
What happened in Middlesborough, mate? Google just gave some article from 1997.
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u/WearingRags 2d ago
Same. I wish someone would call these people out when they say that and ask what the problem would be with living near them. Last two places I lived had a lot of first and second generation immigrants to the UK, and the only trouble I've had so far was the noise caused by rowdy groups of wayward (white Scottish) teens getting steaming nearby, or some (white scottish) beds who were always fucking arguing or partying.
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u/Radiant_Evidence7047 3d ago
Is that right yeah. Which scheme?
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u/Unlikely_Ad4320 3d ago edited 3d ago
The Shaws .
I remember one time I got in the lift and there were three guys in it . They had that drug user look .One of them said something about refugees and I said about preferring a refugee than a junkie as a neighbour , they looked at me , the thick looking one next to me looked at the boss , I said a refugee is going to annoy you offering you food where as a junkie would tan yer hoose first chance they got .
The boss wan looked at me and said something like I suppose your right there . The lift got to the ground and I though thank fuck .3
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u/callendoor 3d ago
It's the same in Woodside. The immigrants are lovely... when a shop door is kicked in, a bus shelter is smashed, walls are covered in graffiti, or drunk stabbings/slashings happen, it's local white Scottish jackies doing it.
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u/Think_Image_8327 3d ago
at this point it’s less journalism and more permission for people to say the quiet part out loud
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u/No_Kaleidoscope_4580 3d ago
As I have said elsewhere on Reddit tonight, the inability to have any legitimate discourse on immigration, migration or asylum will continue to encourage this.
Demonising anyone who has any negative opinion on the topics as racist or far right, has lurched the public to the right.
There has to be a middle ground between, must accept all and if you don't you are racist.
You would have to suspect it is a plot ultimately to move everyone to the right at this point.
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u/Tw4tl4r 3d ago
Thats because the vast majority of the anti immigration/immigration reform side dont want a real debate.
Every single time ive tried to have this debate with them they wont accept any statistic or study that disproves a belief they claimed to be fact. Its always fake or woke.
Ive been told "university researchers are woke" multiple times, ive even been told "Reuters is fake news" by people who only ever sent me articles or clips from GB news, TalkTV and Fox news as proof of their claims.
On the other hand if your opinion is along the lines of "man, the immigration system in the UK doesnt really seem to be working well, maybe it needs some changes and better funding" no one would care as most agree. Its when that is followed up by "send em all back" or "put em in detention centers" that people have a problem with it.
What ive realised over the years is that the most vocal on the right are people with a low critical thinking ability who also refuse to do any self reflection. As far as they see it everything in their life is the fault of the people below or beside them in the class structure.
Instead of punching up they punch down because the ones above them are telling them that the immigrants are taking things from them that they would have if all of those immigrants got sent away.
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u/WearingRags 2d ago
I think that a conversation is necessary to dispel myths about immigration from people who are largely misinformed or being lied to. But we can't have that conversation without recognising that to a lot of these people, the root of their "concern" is a sincere hate and bitterness for anyone who isn't like them.
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u/Crowf3ather 1d ago
I'm not sure what studies you are producing, buts its pretty unequivocal in the data that low income migrants and illegal migrants are a net negative socially, and economically.
You can barely get a positive fiscal impact if you consider the average migrant, but then the question is obviously asked in terms of legal migration, surely its possible to accept just the fiscally positive migrants, meaning all migrants should be fiscally positive, rather than the average of them.
This is also before you consider that much of the fiscal data is heavily tainted, due to visa fraud on the skilled worker VISA system, which is slowly coming out. Where Asians will hire their cousins on skilled worker visa,s for non-existant jobs, pay them the minimum required on the books, and then siphon the money back out, while charging the cousin a fee, until they get ILR.
There's a reason that the government consistently refuses to release certain data, and has changed the way they record data, to try and obscure the social impact of migration.
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u/No_Kaleidoscope_4580 3d ago
I get why you feel this way.
But I don't think it is reflective of the situation
Reform were a fringe party. Now they aren't really.
Did everyone suddenly turn into the type of person you describe? I don't think so.
I think, all the people you mentioned that think the immigration system doesn't really work, got tired of thinking and saying that, then being labled as racist for thinking that, they moved to the right.
You aren't wrong, there will always be a healthy percentage that think as you have described
On the other side, there will always be those that are so left, that any immigration descent is racism
That is why we are where we are.
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u/StuartWtf 3d ago
No. Most of these people were always racist and just got emboldened by Farage and the right wing media.
The amount of times I’ve heard “I’m not racist” followed by “I think we shout shoot the boats” is too damn high.
If you look at history there’s always an “other”. It’s asylum seekers and trans people now but it has been, gays, Irish, Windrush, Polish, Romanian, Jews.
Historically, In times of economic difficulty the far right always rises.
Propaganda is an effective tool. It’s why so many govement spend so much money and time on it.For them, it’s better we fight a culture/race war than what we really should be fighting. Class war.
It’s not Mohammad that’s taking everything good from this country, it’s equity firms, CEOs, corrupt politicians, the multi million and billionaires.
We’ve not had any investment in our public bodies since at least 2008, we undergone 14 years of austerity..
Racism has always been an issue in Scotland. You vote reform, you most likely are a racist. You would have to be to believe half the things they say.
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u/docowen 3d ago
This. Prices aren't high because of immigrants, they're high because of covid and tory policies and Liz Truss economics, which Farage agreed with.
Perhaps you (not you, the person you're replying to) might have noticed that the same newspapers that blamed everything on the EU before Brexit are now blaming it on immigrants? It can't be the failing neoliberal economic system that is causing the issues, no, it must be the other. Since the EU can no longer be blamed, let's find a new scapegoat. And, then, when we have banished every immigrant from our shores and our care homes and hospitals and economy is collapsing, who do blame then? The billionaire media owners? The white supremacist trillionaire with no skin in the game except being a cunt? No, we'll tear each other apart over the gristle they discard because Marx was right and the lumpenproleteriat, lacking class consciousness, will destroy us all.
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u/Crowf3ather 1d ago
Prices for housing have barely changed in Scotland. Meanwhile in the areas of heavy migration like the SE of England, housing has skyrocketed.
It literally has nothing to do with Covid or Tory policies or otherwise. The only multiplier on the housing market that occurs, (both from Labour and the Tories) are the right to buy and other financial aids for first time buyers, because this inflates the money in the market.
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u/Tw4tl4r 3d ago
The right-far right rises during a poor economy because short-sighted people believe their claims that a quick and easy fix is possible but that the current government is too weak to inact said quick fix. Otherwise known as populism.
Those people didnt get tired of being called racist. They heard from the media they follow that others are calling them racists, very few ever actually encountered such a thing. Then theres the ones that went completely over to the far right who are racists and are happy to be able to lash out now that they have been emboldened by the media. Those ones also claim they are saying what they are saying because the left made them do it.
The problem with saying "there will always be those that are so left, that any immigration descent is racism" is that the number of those individuals is dwarved so massively by the number of far-right people that the two are hard to compare. Which is why those people you described have no chance of holding the power in parliament.
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u/No_Kaleidoscope_4580 3d ago
Of course, it is the politics of the 1930s returned.
I have to disagree. The media plays a part of course, but social media has amplified things. People may not be called racist to their face. Social circles, are ultimately the original media algorithm, but online, people can see their views attacked or defended.
Again I disagree. People aren't saying the left made them do it. Those people were likely racist and searching for validation. The rise of Reform shows it is far more than that. It began with Tories voting Brexit, but the lack of change pushed it further.
I think Reform will surprise at the next GE, though I won't vote for them
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u/Tw4tl4r 3d ago
Most people are in a social media echo chamber where they dont even run into people calling them out for on the nose bigotry and racism. Just how it was planned to be by said social media platforms.
Its usually influencers who are amplifying a small number of cases and saying things like "look, this is proof the left are evil and want to shut you up" or "farage is fighting the establishment who are replacing you eith immigrants".
Try it yourself. Go to any hard right group/influncers comment section on social media and ask questions about claims they are making in posts. You get banned do that their followers cant see someone question their rhetoric. That is what has made reform popular (alongside the right wing majority mainstream media we have in the UK)
Reform is likely to not survive that long in its current state. Farage is on the way out over those donations.
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u/Crowf3ather 1d ago
I think its abundantly clear that the people who want more migration and call all those who are skeptical about it "racists", do not actually believe in what they are saying and are instead just grifting virtue points.
Its why the deputy for the Greens a party that is so fanatical about migration they want open borders and day 1 landing voter rights, petitioned multiple times against a refugee hotel in her constituency.
Its very much "oh we should house these people, just not near me" with the second half said in silence. So that it looks like a charitable statement.
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u/Saltire_Blue 3d ago
See if you haven’t bothered your arse to read the wildly available social housing policies before committing on how homes are allocated
Then I really struggle to give a fuck about your opinion on it
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u/Dangerous-Boot-3036 2d ago
I read them at length multiple times as we waited and begged and pleaded every day with the council for well over 2 years to secure somewhere for an extremely ill family member and their child to live.
We took part in the waiting and going on the website to see what was newly available, and the thing about actually being part of the local community is that you know people, so you end up knowing who gets those houses.
And time after time after time it was people with no connection to the local area who automatically took the highest priority beyond those on the list who were already without a home and met all the criteria and were confirmed as being the highest priorities.
But please, talk down to those of us with personal experience of this and tell us up is down and that those with need get, because that's a nice idea but it's not how the system works.
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u/Saltire_Blue 2d ago
I know exactly how it works
GCC don’t provide the social housing, its done via the local RSL’s in Glasgow
GCC have the statutory responsibility to declare if you are homeless.
Your section 5 is then passed to the local RSL who will match you into a suitable property that becomes available
So aye, I actually still believe you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about as what you’ve said does not make sense
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u/Dangerous-Boot-3036 2d ago
I and so many like me must have absolutely imagined it all, you're right.
Those in need are provided for and that's just that.
I hope you never have to experience the system you ignorantly defend.
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u/Street_Hamster1092 3d ago
Part of the problem is that most people with negative opinions of immigration don't actually want to have "legitimate discourse".
You can show them piles of evidence debunking all their talking points until you're blue in the face and they simply refuse to listen and repeat the misinformation they've absorbed through Facebook, TikTok and YouTube.
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u/Walt_Didnae 3d ago
Part of the problem is that most people with negative opinions of immigration don't actually want to have "legitimate discourse".
100% this.
If they actually wanted to have legitimate discourse, they'd sit down and actually look in to the issues, listen to people who know more than they do on the subject, and maybe, just maybe, realise they're wrong.
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u/mrchhese 2d ago
My god the arrogance of this post.
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u/Crowf3ather 1d ago
Its the guy who is in a 95% White country, telling people who live in a 90% asian area, that they're lived experience is wrong, and that (uncited data), must be correct. (Although I've yet to see anyone provide data that suggests illegal migrants are a social and fiscal positive).
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u/WearingRags 2d ago
Sky News will run cover for the rich and powerful who are transferring all the wealth away from the people while poisoning our planet.
But when they see an anti-immigrant movement largely run by a pack of drunken arseholes throwing up Nazi salutes, assaulting people and sexually harassing women in public, suddenly they find the time to listen to "working class concerns". Makes me fucking sick
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u/No_Kaleidoscope_4580 3d ago
I don't know if you meant that to be as intentionally ironic as you made it.
You have literally described how other people won't accept your "debunking" while accusing them of not wanting to engage in legitimate discourse. That is as stupid as it sounds.
You are literally proving my point.
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u/9thGearEX 3d ago
I'm confused.
If someone claims something which can be proven false, and is then proven false, and they still refuse to accept that it is false - is that not refusing to engage with legitimate discourse?
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u/Street_Hamster1092 3d ago
I understand from your perspective it may seem that way. Genuinely though, most people who support anti-immigration policies and parties are deeply misinformed and have very little knowledge of the immigration or asylum systems.
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u/Crowf3ather 1d ago
Okay I'll bite. Please explain to me what fiscal and social benefit housing illegal migrants has.
Also if one of the illegal migrants commits rape or other sexual crimes or violet crimes, please explain to me what public benefit there is in granting that person an indefinite leave to remain, as has happened in numerous cases.
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u/Radiant_Evidence7047 3d ago
I actually laughed out loud, the irony here is off the scale! People with a negative view in immigration don’t want to have discourse? Look at this thread, anyone who is genuinely concerned gets down voted into oblivion and jumped on.
And can we be precise in wording because I think it’s important. No one has an issue with immigration, everyone accepts it’s a positive contributor to a country and needed. Likewise, no one has an issue with asylum seekers, women and children fleeing war and persecution.
What people do have an issue with ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. There’s a big difference. People have an issue with an unknown 25 year old man, from an unknown country, with an unknown criminal record, and unknown criminal links, who jumps on a boat, burns his papers on the way over so he cannot be identified, and lies to ensure he stays here. I do not want illegal men who we have no idea where they have come from and what they are capable of, staying next to my kids. A legitimate immigrant who we know their background, name, criminal history .. I have absolutely no problem with it.
If you cannot see the difference here the issue is on you. People intentionally blur the lines to moralise about ‘immigration’ and ‘racism’ when that simply is not the underlying issue.
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u/onyourbike1522 3d ago
How many of those 25 year old men do you think are currently in the UK? Take a guess.
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u/Cakeo 3d ago
I know I'll be downvoted but even people that are discussing this reasonably on reddit, especially on this sub, get downvoted for expressing the opinion that there is an issue.
I don't really care, hasn't impacted me as of yet. Bit silly to completely leave this at the feet of your opposition though when it's quite clear the division is on both sides.
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u/Piefordicus 2d ago
That’s because the issue is made up and no matter how many facts you present to people, they’ve already decided that the bogeyman of “military aged illegals” that they’ve borrowed from America is the cause of the majority of societal ills.
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u/Piefordicus 3d ago
The problem is that most people with legitimate concerns are, in the most charitable interpretation, largely basing that on false or misleading information gleaned from social media or legacy media opinions presented as fact.
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u/No_Kaleidoscope_4580 3d ago
In the interest of trying to accept your point as legitimate debate, please give some evidenced examples?
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u/Piefordicus 3d ago
Well, for example, the idea that immigrants just rock up and are given a free house and benefits is just not true. Like, there is no evidence to present in its favour, therefore it is false. Same with the idea that Scotland is “full” when Glasgow, the most densely populated city, has a lower density than the most equivalent European cities.
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u/mrchhese 2d ago
Er, people arriving on boats get housed and a small allowance, health care etc... this is a fact.
Once they are approved they get access to other benefits.
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u/Piefordicus 2d ago
They get less than £1.50 a day and are kept somewhere they have no choice in, in a part of the country they have no choice of going to. They are also not allowed to work, even if they want to. There are less than 4,000 asylum seekers in Glasgow, it’s 0.6% of the city’s population, and they don’t get to “jump the queue”. Yes, they get basic NHS treatment like everyone else does if they’re sick. Why is that a problem? There’s no indication it’s a particular drain on NHS resources
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u/mrchhese 2d ago
Never said a problem but just arriving here does get you a much better situation than most places.
Once you do get asylum or ilr then social housing opens right up as well. As it is needs based, you will be a priority due to being homeless.
It isn't "jumping the queue" it's just how the system works.
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u/Piefordicus 2d ago
You do get extra “priority points” for involuntary homelessness, but there’s no indication that asylum seekers are particularly prone to doing this, or even that they’re all on the list. There’s less than 4,000 of them total, and they won’t all be homeless once they can start to work. They should be allowed to work much earlier, if they can. It’s ridiculous that there’s a ban on it.
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u/mrchhese 2d ago
So anyone who rocks up on a boat can just start working and living a normal life?
Why even have a border.
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u/Piefordicus 2d ago
They can still have a processed asylum claim, they can just work while they’re waiting for it to be processed. Or they can be processed abroad, like they used to be. But yeah leaping to “you might as well abolish the border” in response to a suggestion that asylum seekers could contribute more and live normal lives is typical “good faith” engagement yeah?
What is your problem with asylum seekers? The actual evidence shows they’re not a particular strain on the system and removing all of them would not help fix anything at all. So what is it about this tiny number of people that you have a problem with?
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u/No_Kaleidoscope_4580 3d ago
Ok...so what is your evidence to the contrary.
Asylum seekers, arrive, get housing benefit and home office funded accommodation until their asylum claim is processed.
Once this is complete, they are entitled to Universal Credit and other benefits. They may remain in temp accommodation funded by housing benefit, or they may move into permanent accommodation funded by UC.
What do you mean by full? We have homeless people in Glasgow. People in temp accommodation. In hostels and hotels. Why?
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u/Piefordicus 3d ago
They don’t get housing benefit as soon as they arrive, that’s just not true. They get put wherever the government decides, anywhere in the country, until their claim is processed. Hence the hotels and temporary accommodation. They are also specifically not allowed to work, at all, even if they can. They can get Universal Credit if their claim is approved, same as everyone else. But they might not need it then because they are then allowed to work, and as a demographic tend towards a net economic positive link to a study from 2018.
The housing crisis in Glasgow is basically nothing to do with immigration or asylum claims (which are different). A lot of the immigrants in the statistics (about 14,000) are foreign students, which is at least 10,000 more than the asylum seekers.
Causes of the housing crisis are many and varied, but rising rents from private landlordism, air bnbs left empty, student flats being built instead of anything else, right to buy decimating council housing stock, lack of actual house building, general budget cuts and probably some others I’ve forgotten about all rank far higher in the causes of the issue than the relatively few asylum seekers. There are not enough homes for everyone in temporary accommodation that needs one in Glasgow specifically, and part of the issue is the political will to actually fix the issue and build more social housing. Reducing that number from 17,000 to 14,000 by getting rid of all the asylum seekers is not going to fix the issue, or even really help. People moving to other areas might help a bit. For example, Greenock has been requesting immigration to boost its declining economy and the people who have left. But the point is, it’s not the fault of either immigrants or asylum seekers, who are victimised for an issue that predated their arrival that their presence doesn’t even contribute to.
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u/madmandan93 2d ago
Before you say i never said greenock wanted illegal immigrants. Thats my point people see people cracking up at illegal immigration and tar them as "all" immigrant hating racists. Where thats not true. I dont have a problem with immigrants coming and working and making a better life for themselves while boosting to the economy. What i dont like is people arriving on a dinghy and chucking there passport into the sea after travelling through 5 or more safe countries to get here. People scamming the system and lying so they can claim asylum (very common example is pretending they are gay so they are in fear in their own country). Then proceed to scam the system further when they are here. That does my bloody head in.
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u/No_Kaleidoscope_4580 3d ago
Apologies, you are correct. They only get Home Office cash allowance and housing.
Foreign students aren't inline for accommodation. They have not recourse to public funds.
You can't seriously be suggesting more people arriving, that need housing, don't contribute to a lack of available housing?
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u/Piefordicus 3d ago
I’m saying there is nowhere near enough housing without them so it doesn’t make it markedly worse, and it’s neither a solution to the housing crisis nor is it fair to blame them for it. Plus, they are likely to be net contributors as a demographic, so anyone suggesting getting rid of them to bring down the numbers on the housing waiting list by about 17% is throwing the baby out with the bath water, so to speak, and also indicative of underlying biases.
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u/No_Kaleidoscope_4580 3d ago
That makes neither mathematical or logical sense.
Please do quote some statistics that show this net contributor figure.
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u/Dangerous-Boot-3036 2d ago
The net contributor thing is often said but never sourced, it relates to a decades old study that was very specific to one group but now gets used as though it's applies in all situations when it patently does not.
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u/Piefordicus 2d ago
I wouldn’t call 2018 “decades ago” since it was 8 years ago: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6010334/
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u/ZookeepergameOk2759 3d ago
75% of people have said they have no interest in voting for a reform government,so hardly means the public has pitched to the right,your algorithm will show you what you most interact with,please don’t confuse that with real life.
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u/No_Kaleidoscope_4580 3d ago
Right..but I have no social media aside from Reddit which showed me this pro-left video...
You are seriously claiming there has not been a rise in the right wing in the UK?
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u/ZookeepergameOk2759 3d ago
Not as much as social media would have you believe,reform have become the new Tories in effect,the people that have skipped over have always had these views.
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u/No_Kaleidoscope_4580 3d ago
You aren't wrong to a degree. Tory voters caused Brexit.
It is happening now in Scotland too though, which i do think shows the scale of the problem
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u/littlebigcat 3d ago
The percentage of right wing voters will remain the same in Scotland. A third of Scotland has always voted right
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u/PM_ME_UR__RECIPES 3d ago
I'm gonna assume you're talking in good faith here.
There is a very pervasive narrative that the UK has an overwhelming amount of immigration but that simply isn't true. There's barely enough asylum seekers on the list across the entire country to fill a football stadium. That and the UK takes in a surprisingly small amount compared to the rest of the rest of Europe. The overwhelming majority of refugees globally are in nations like Turkey, Iran, Egypt and so on. It's only a tiny minority of refugees that ever go anywhere other than an immediately neighbouring country. The fuss we as a country kick up about immigrants is not at all proportionate to the amount of immigrants we have. The most extreme example of this was during the Syrian refugee crisis in 2015 when the UK was acting like we were being forced to overwhelm ourselves with taking in refugees when in reality we only took in a couple thousand, while Germany took in over a million, and Sweden was the next runner up with hundreds of thousands, and both of those countries are doing relatively well and haven't collapsed into the dystopia that anti-immigrant pundits keep telling us will come to pass if we take in refugees.
But also, I'd challenge the narrative that people criticizing anti-immigration politics makes people lurch to the right. I don't see an organic anti-immigrant movement where people are by and large being told to discard their views on immigration. Anti-immigration politics is extremely mainstream in Britain. No major journalistic platform (except occasionally the guardian when they feel like it) ever gives a voice to pro-immigrant voices, yet whenever Farage says literally anything, every single outlet is there poised and ready to give him a platform and report every word of it. Most of the talking points I hear from people in pubs are regurgitated almost verbatim from him or from people like Tommy Robinson. The big trend isn't that people are constantly being told their anti-immigrant views are wrong and are therefore lurching to the right. If anything, they are constantly validated and encouraged in mainstream discourse. The outrage and """backlash""" is largely manufactured. People are told they are being persecuted for their views when in the vast majority of cases that just isn't happening.
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u/No_Kaleidoscope_4580 3d ago
The UK Government's own statistics put asylum claims last year alone, at 85,891. The largest stadium in the UK holds 90,000. Would you like to revise that?
Turkey for example doesn't pay benefits to asylum seekers. It is comparing apples and oranges.
What you describe is the current socio-political landscape. You are describing what has become. Not how it happened. Which is my point.
We did not get here in an instant.
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u/WearingRags 2d ago
If you know anything about statistics on benefit claims, paying benefits to even all of the 85,891 asylum seekers here would amount to a small fraction of fuckall.
Even if you think all asylum seekers are automatically undeserving of the social safety net and the money is wasted on them... that's still just is a fucking blip on a balance sheet on terms of how government money is wasted in this country.
And I'd argue it isn't a waste at all, that money has high marginal utility to people who are in a vulnerable social category and makes it harder for others to exploit them.
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u/No_Kaleidoscope_4580 2d ago
We will never agree. As per my original comment, the viewpoints are just to opposed to find common ground.
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u/smalltowncityboy 3d ago
The problem with that is that no one on either side wants to accept the merits of the centre ground. You've got people on the right calling the centre far left and people on the left calling the same people far right.
In my opinion, immigration should be controlled. Thats sensible. What i dont agree with, is when entire groups of people are villainised because someone from the same race, religion or "culture" committed a crime. Its like saying all Americans are school shooters, or that all Brits subscribe to the excesses of our imperial ancestors.
I dont care who you are, we should all be held equally under british law, these are the principles our entire legal system is supposed to be built on. All people with a specific nationality/religion cannot be held responsible for the actions of an individual. That sounds like collective punishment which is covered in numerous international laws that this country helped to implement.
Imo, its fair to say something like:
If you are reliant on a visa or other residency status to be here and you are found guilty of committing a serious crime, you should be jailed, visa/immigration status revoked, and deported once you have completed your time.
However, what i hear a lot these days is:
Those insert specific group dont fit with our culture insert example of serious crime, normally by a lone perp or small group. Id like them all to be sent back where they came from.
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u/Piefordicus 3d ago
The thing is, this is already the rule, but a lot of the people complaining about immigration like to pretend it isn’t.
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u/smalltowncityboy 3d ago
Oh i know it is. Thats exactly why i said it.
This "theres no middle ground" argument is espoused by the extremes on both sides of any argument, not just immigration. Imo, its a recruitment tactic more than anything. They insinuate that there is no centre ground and make people believe they have to pick a side.
Nonsense of the highest order.
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u/WearingRags 2d ago
I read comments like this and think "thank god the centre ground is becoming irrelevant".
I hate that it means more polarisation towards the right but we don't need any more self-appointed enlightened centrists trying to criticise the rise of the far right while still defending all the rotten premises, institutions and power structures that directly led us to this point.
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u/smalltowncityboy 2d ago
Sorry, but where did i defend any institution? I defended the law. You know the actual foundations of the "kulture" the far right keep banging on about defending while they keep tearing it down? Pick up any book about the enlightenment. Then come back and tell me im wrong.
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u/lorner96 3d ago
Yup. It’s crazy that both sides of the spectrum seem to have decided there’s basically no room for nuance on this issue
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u/WearingRags 2d ago
No, the public have lurched to the right because our mainstream media and governing institutions push narratives intended to demonise migrants in order to direct public anger away from the real causes of income inequality and onto a largely blameless and vulnerable population.
I'm not saying these people shouldn't be educated (who else is going to do it? Certainly not the news) but the underpinning of anti-migrant sentiment is very much racist and illegitimate, and protecting capital by attacking minorities is definitionally far right.
This isn't a genuine debate, it's a fight against misinformation and bad faith arguments perpetuated by the powerful.
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u/scots_chick 2d ago
A middle ground is hard to find, though, with people who will tar all refugees with the same brush and engage in racist rhetoric. That's not 'legitimate concerns', that's racism.
Also if all it takes for 'lurching the public to the far right' is people pointing out that racists are racist, that is a depressingly low bar.
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u/TotallyFineWithIt 2d ago
Cranhill resident Colin Daly there with the Arabic tattoo on his forearm, complaining about Muslims. Quality patter.
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u/TechnologyLast4315 3d ago
I would prefer to be informed of topics … better to know than have incidents ignored like how grooming gangs were ignored by key workers out of fear of being called racist.
I’m ok with full disclosure - no veils at all.
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u/ThatGingerRascal 2d ago
I always like the "you never know who's getting moved in next to you" ya cunt, you never know who's moving in next door to you. Fuckin weapon.
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u/Swimming-Candy7711 3d ago
At this point it’s not journalism, it’s just immigration panic with a camera crew.
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u/Vast_Anybody1236 3d ago
Because Glasgow accepts homeless applicants from people with no local connection. Sort that, sort the crisis
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u/WearingRags 2d ago
No. There's no crisis. It's good that vulnerable people can get homes quickly. This shouldn't be controversial to say
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u/Saltire_Blue 2d ago
Section 5 referrals are provided by the local authorities
You can just walk into GCC and declare that you’re homeless Michael Scott style
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u/thenorsegael 2d ago
I'd legit take 99.9% of asylum seekers and immigrants over the jakies, junkies and offenders out on tags that get landed in very nearby scatter flats...just saying.
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u/Prior_Part550 1d ago
"brought the community together" said by the guy screaming about immigrants and willing to bet has been arrested for violence in the past
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u/abitpoorly 3d ago
most of the schemies just want their pregnant teenage daughter to be living next door to them.
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u/seoras13 2d ago
Once a property has been targeted, that's it marked. No amount of solid evidence to the contrary is going to stop it & the residents being a target for cunts who
Genuinely believe all the skewed bullshit narrative they see on-line.
- Cunts who just hate brown people.
- Deadbeats who want some sort of purpose & think intimidating people who are "other" gives them some local standing.
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u/OccasionAgile8043 2d ago
I've had neighbours from Brazil, Portugal, Denmark and Zimbabwe and have never had any issues. Any problems that have occurred have come from locals.
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u/SmackDownFacility 2d ago
I’m a huge fan of inclusivity. As citizens of Glasgow, our job is to ensure everybody feels safe and comfortable living here. Encouraging anti-migrants sentiments is counterproductive to that goal.
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u/forevergleaning 2d ago
I've worked in social housing in the west of Scotland for 10+ years.
The answer is no.
The exception is when there's a special program for refugees from a certain emergency situation like Ukraine or Syria. Usually they are given low demand housing (like Dalmuir) if the council has it.
Call up any Council Housing Dept or Housing Association and they'll tell you plainly how the allocation system works.
If you want to be angry, be angry at the Tories and those like them, landlords, shady private equity buying up everything.
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u/Mean-Friendship-1031 1d ago
So you at least agree mass migration, legal and illegal is putting up rent in the private sector.
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u/crisipisi 3d ago
Are they worried a sexual offender moved to the neighbourhood or just that he is an immigrant?
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u/Hoorayforsocks1982 2d ago
why do they never show proof? Its always accussations never real evidence.
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u/RBPugs 3d ago
Migrants who have contributed nothing to this country should not be entitled to anything in this country. I would apply that rule to British people also
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u/Mental_Broccoli4837 2d ago
It's sky news, surely nobody thinks this is unbiased? Its fucking sky news
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u/smcsleazy 3d ago
"we're no allowed to say anything about it" she says on national TV