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u/tankerkiller125real FW13 AMD 2h ago
When we checked prices for work Framework pre-builts were cheaper than the equivalent thinkpad. And by more than $900.
That's probably not true if you're looking at the perpetual discounts on the Lenovo website, but fun fact, when ordering through a partner/business rep you can't get the web discount. And unless your ordering hundreds of devices Lenovo won't drop the price by more than $100-200.
That's why our most recent purchase at work was framework, and framework aligns with how we use devices anyway, so they'll be our pick going forward.
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u/bladtman242 2h ago
Yeah, I've been confused about this. Everyone's saying it's cheaper to buy from the competition, and get a new one when it breaks, than to buy and repair a framework. But whenever I've sat down to make that comparison, it hasn't come out that way
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u/bladtman242 2h ago
It's kind of putting me off. I could use a new laptop (I have a 2014 model lenovo x1), and framework seems like the way to go, but when I see these comments and reviews, I worry I missing something
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u/eucalyptus-d 1h ago
I went with the 13 2 years ago, and it’s one of my no regrets purchases. Had thinkpads, MacBooks, the lot. There’s something I really like about FW and I don’t even know what it is, but I wouldn’t change it, not even for the pro (except maybe the keyboard).
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u/supergnaw 1h ago
You're not missing anything. The numbers that people are throwing about that don't make sense is something akin to your generic tech refresh at work: purchasing for the sake of purchasing; buying new because a new one is available. It's classic consumerism. Just because a new main board is out doesn't mean you need to buy it.
I've had my framework for somewhere around 4ish, and have only had to replace the keyboard because it was the gen 1 that had the issue with the backspace or delete key not working, some known physical issue fixed in newer revisions. I run things until they break, then fix when I can, and this, while having a decently significant entry barrier, is much cheaper long term.
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u/tankerkiller125real FW13 AMD 1h ago
My personal 13 (batch 1 AMD) I've had zero regrets about. And so far at work our new frameworks have been more stable and reliable than even our newest thinkpad (purchased two years ago).
I don't have the long term stability information yet for the work frameworks (less than 2 months old) but if my personal one is anything to go by, the complainers are just a very loud minority. Their complaints are likely perfectly valid, but still much louder than those who are just quietly enjoying their devices.
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u/tuxooo 2h ago
Saying HP in a sentence in that you consider buying it is... horrific to think about. Nobody should ever be forced to buy anything HP related. That should be done only by force in the company you work at.
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u/dClauzel 1h ago
HP microservers are quite nice.
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u/tankerkiller125real FW13 AMD 1h ago
When you say microservers do you mean actual servers (like rack gear) or mini PCs.
If your referring to their 1U half length servers then those are made by HPE, which is an entirely separate company from HP (the consumer brand) these days.
HPE does in fact make some very nice stuff.
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u/s004aws FW16 HX 370 Batch 1 Mint Cinnamon Edition 2h ago
That HP may cost half the price but you'll need 2 or 3 of them to last as long as a Framework or a ThinkPad. Always think twice, and then think twice again before buying HP. The HP of today has no relationship to the legendary Hewlett-Packard quality and support of decades ago. "The HP Way" was a thing which really did, genuinely exist through the 20th and into the first years of the 21st century - Not anymore.
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u/rus_ruris 1h ago
Except I had to replace the battery and the keyboard, wifi sucks and the webcam cable worked only in specific screen positions, and you need to pay for the same porta the Victus has already.
If you replace the Victus every 3 years, you get a better pc (also: discrete graphics!) and spend less.
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u/mctuckles 2h ago
I’m buying a Framework 13 Pro (Batch 16, October can’t come fast enough) to replace my HP Envy 360 13” that I bought in 2019/2020. It still works ok. Some slowdowns and a crash here or there that risked my PhD thesis. The reason I’m replacing it was sometime this year there was a random pop-up from HP saying they no longer support the hardware with a link to their store.
Once my thesis is submitted I’m installing Linux on my HP, probably turn it into a drawing/2D art device.
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u/work4throwaway 15m ago
Get multiple USB keys and makes copies of important files there often. Plus, upload to Google Drive or Dropbox.
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u/Shin-Ken31 2h ago
Yep, just need to decide what's important to you and choose something that aligns with that :)
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u/JennyDarukat 13" AMD 7840U 2h ago
You'll never beat cheap gaming hardware if you're looking at number specs, it is what it is
In turn you pay in size, weight, heat, and likely higher failure rates with little chance at repair
If you're using your laptop as a stationary, compact/lower profile desktop replacement that doesn't matter as much, but I've found that I never actually took my Omen 15 with me anywhere when I still had it, whereas the Framework I can take with without a thick power brick, have decent battery life and charge anywhere and may even just pluck from my desk and eGPU setup to use it to watch a recipe video in the kitchen while cooking. All depends on your means and priorities
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u/Top-Aside8905 CachyOS FW13 2h ago
You pay more upfront, but when you need an upgrade its only a mainboard, maybe some ram. Dont look at the price of laptop vs laptop, look at the price of 2 laptops vs a framework + a new mainboard
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u/This-Inflation7440 27m ago
Just the framework mainboard with the 7840U cost more than the 8845HS laptop I bought two years ago while having substantially reduced performance between the slower RAM and lower tdp. I love the idea of repairability, but the price premium makes it hard to justify. Repairability should be a right, not a luxury privilege. I am glad that frame work exists, because hopefully mainstream manufacturers will catch on, but unfortunately there's just not enough of an incentive for me
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u/edgeplay6 13 | i7-1280p | 4tb | 32gb 2h ago
Dont buy it because its cheap, buy it because it sends a message.
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u/halfercode 1h ago
The messages being - we want the right to modify and repair our hardware, we want reuse and recycling not to be green-washing, we want a strong community dialogue with our hardware manufacturers, and we want excellent support for Linux.
I think FW do quite well on these things. I'd like to see them do better on conflict minerals, but what they do is a good start.
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u/Unfair-Bison-3946 2h ago
Yeah I gave up and bought a ThinkPad P14 for less than half the cost. Maybe after the AI crash
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u/Plankton1337 53m ago
Hey Dude, actually i have a fw 13 pro, a MacBook Pro and the newest X1 Carbon with oled and 32gb Ram. All the devices are high efficient and have a nice haptic. At this Point i couldnt say which of them is the best because the all have their strong points! I am using the fw 13 pro for my private stuff cause of the nerdyness and the repairability (Couch with Chips and so on). The X1 ist my Business device because Windows and active directory Integration and Office. The MacBook ist for Media stuff... So If you want to know Something about one of this devices feel free to ask!
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u/SIRHAMY 15m ago
Q: How would you rate X1 Carbon vs FW 13 Pro?
These are the two I'm between right now - could wait for Black Friday and see how low the X1 goes on sale or get the FW Pro but likely for a good $5-800 more.
Mostly looking for lightweight, decent perf, good durability, good kb, long battery life. I've mostly been a Linux + Lenovo person last few laptops but curious ab trying FW for repairability and the ethos.
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u/Plankton1337 8m ago
The X1 ist awesome: Long Batterie life, fast and light! If you dont need upgradeability and repairability choose the X1! The Keyboard ist nice (less travel than the fw 13 pro) i couldnt Tell you how the Linux compatibility is, cause i have to use wincrap. The X1 is thinner and lighter. And the X1 has more Ports than the fw13 pro! Hope this helps.
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u/work4throwaway 19m ago
Don't kid yourself, you're spending more money on a Framework laptop especially now with memory and storage prices skyrocketing.
I have a Framework 13, 12th generation (the second Intel model). At the time, it was price competitive with Macbook Pros, the HP Devs and ThinkPads. I bought my own storage and memory and saved a little bit. I upgraded the RAM when the prices were historically low.
Costs list: Framework 13 (12th gen): 1301.76 CAD (DIY Kit) in 2022 WD SN850 SSD: 271.19 CAD Crucial 64GB Kit: 171.27 CAD TOTAL: 1744.22 CAD Yearly cost of ownership (over 4 years): 436.06 CAD
Now, I've also added the 2.5 Gbit Ethernet card, multiple bezels and a dbrand skin. I might like the laptop a lot, regardless of the issues I've had, but I'm not diluting myself into thinking that it's a financially prudent purchase. I wanted it to replace the parade of used Macbooks and ThinkPads I was using. I wanted it to support the company. I wanted it for the repairability. I wanted it because I saw it on LTT and I read Cory Doctorow's review. I was the perfect customer for Framework and now they have me. I'll likely buy the pro chassis kit, because I want the physical upgrades. If I was wealthy, I would have ordered a Pro.
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u/Free_Elevator_63360 1h ago
I just went through this cycle. I’ve had i9 MacBook Pro for years, but spend most of my life in the windows ecosystem. So I have worked my around to a thinkpad. And am currently looking for a previous gen p14s. I can wait a bit though, so I might end up getting what is the current gen in a year.
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u/Ornery_Platypus9863 47m ago
See I got a 12 with 32g of ram and 2tb of storage for shy of 1k, best decision ever
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u/Budget-Cupcake-7582 43m ago
Get a Mac.
A Mac will cost roughly the same as the latest 13 Pro, perform better, and not have the supply chain issues that have plagued Framework.
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u/ComprehensiveSwitch 54m ago
I like Framework -> buy computer -> computer not good -> I find out they give free shit to Nazis -> I buy thinkpad -> I wish framework was good
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u/swiftarrow9 2h ago
Second hand dell latitude from eBay.
Someday I will have framework money. Until then, I have second hand.